Bizarre responds - We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc

[QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="Kalias"][QUOTE="dhjohns"][QUOTE="legalize3"]

lol microsoft just stepped in

bbbbbut we dont know whats wrong.... ?

someone just got fired

thirstychainsaw

So when presented with facts, the best fanboys can do is scream conspiracy theories? Like GS is teh bias, or MS pays everyone to say nice things. :lol: Get a grip.

Wait... so the dev who posted yesterday was pulling a prank on us? quite a funny joke, dont ya think?

Get real man, they obviously had to say something or else they would even loose there on fans. Its obvious this is just a cover-up.. notice he doesn't even mention if the dev was lieing or what not... what we heard had no spin to it, the dev stated it how it is, he couldn't have been more clear when he said "we dont have enough space" (something along those lines)

You're right, when a dev says something we should take it with a grain a salt. For example the next time someone says "only possible with the Cell or Blu-Ray" we should assume its BS.

Nice try there but you FAILED and the truth PREVAILED !!

You're right, truth won. DVD is large enough and Bizarre never cut any content and they probably never will.

wow talk about a fanboy in denial. i bet you would put your life on the line to save Microsoft Corp. Sad.....

wow talk about a fanboy in denial. i bet you would put your life on the line to save Microsoft Corp. Sad.....

Kalias

What am I in denial about? They didn't cut any content to put the game on DVD, PGR4 will have day/night tracks :|

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="Kalias"]

wow talk about a fanboy in denial. i bet you would put your life on the line to save Microsoft Corp. Sad.....

BrooklynBomber

What am I in denial about? They didn't cut any content to put the game on DVD :|

:lol: Keep trying buddy, you won't get under my skin.

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

XenogearsMaster

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

XenogearsMaster

No, I don't think you understand. Before they made two sets of textures for the tracks, one day and one night. Now they just have one texture and they use lighting to make it appear like night or day or stormy.

[QUOTE="lordxymor"][QUOTE="Pripyat"]

[QUOTE="lordxymor"]Of course they didn't cut content to fit. Why would they create more content than the disc size. They design game from the start with 9GB limit in mind, they don't start developing stuff to cut it off later.
Pripyat

I don't think "DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games" is so hard to understand.

It's not hard to understand, I automaticaly filter out BS. The decision of shipping a game in DVD5, DVD9, 2 discs or whatever is made during the financial analysis with the publisher, well before the designing process. When they enter the designing process they already know the guidelines and limits.

Oh, you filter out the parts you don't want to read? I see.

I don't want to see that? What do you know what I want or don't want to see?

If you have no argument don't reply.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

BrooklynBomber

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

I see... LMAO.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

BrooklynBomber

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

God you're annoying. Two different methods of providing day/light tracks one just takes alot less space.

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."

"So at it's base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you. Trust me, they all look cool "

-bizarre

[QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

thirstychainsaw

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

God you're annoying. Two different methods of providing day/light tracks one just takes alot less space.

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."

"So at it's base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you. Trust me, they all look cool "

-bizarre

You're highlighted sentence does not prove your point when you include the next two sentences. Are you even reading?

[QUOTE="Pripyat"][QUOTE="lordxymor"][QUOTE="Pripyat"]

[QUOTE="lordxymor"]Of course they didn't cut content to fit. Why would they create more content than the disc size. They design game from the start with 9GB limit in mind, they don't start developing stuff to cut it off later.
lordxymor

I don't think "DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games" is so hard to understand.

It's not hard to understand, I automaticaly filter out BS. The decision of shipping a game in DVD5, DVD9, 2 discs or whatever is made during the financial analysis with the publisher, well before the designing process. When they enter the designing process they already know the guidelines and limits.

Oh, you filter out the parts you don't want to read? I see.

Moo, moo, mooo.

Fixed that for you.

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

dubvisions

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

God you're annoying. Two different methods of providing day/light tracks one just takes alot less space.

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."

"So at it's base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you. Trust me, they all look cool "

-bizarre

You're highlighted sentence does not prove your point when you include the next two sentences. Are you even reading?

Really? Explain.

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

dubvisions

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

God you're annoying. Two different methods of providing day/light tracks one just takes alot less space.

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."

"So at it's base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you. Trust me, they all look cool "

-bizarre

You're highlighted sentence does not prove your point when you include the next two sentences. Are you even reading?

[QUOTE="dubvisions"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

So they made a statement saying thatthey couldn't fit to a disc and now saying nowthey can... right...

thirstychainsaw

First the said they dropped time of day because dvd-9 was too small, then they said time of day was dropped and we did not cut any features lmao.

God you're annoying. Two different methods of providing day/light tracks one just takes alot less space.

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."

"So at it's base there is only one time of day, add to that the different weather settings and you get more variation to each of the cities than just Day and Night would give you. Trust me, they all look cool "

-bizarre

You're highlighted sentence does not prove your point when you include the next two sentences. Are you even reading?

Really? Explain.

Look at the bolded part. There is only ONE TIME OF DAY. No day or night cycles even with the new method.

THIS SHOULD SETTLE EVERYTHING:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/spin-control/bizzare-talks-disc-space-and-pgr4-284936.php

You guys can't put a positive spin on this.

"DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games"

"[...]it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD."

One is a slip about a technical limitation of 360. One is a PR retification after Microsoft wouldn't stop calling them.

Sure, call me fanboy as much as you want, but you have to be a complete idiot to believe 9GB limit won't impact these massive multi-million productions. But fear not, ever since the first console, work-around hardware limitations is the main job of game developers.

Sounds like an excuse.

"Yeah we couldn't do time of day... b-b-bb-bbut weather dynamics!"

I love how the Sony fanboys are attacking PGR4 and Bizarre. If you are so happy with your PS3 then why do you care if day/night tracks are included in a game thats not even on your system. Someone must be feeling a bit worried about" teh bluuuuuuue raaaaaay". The truth with this is probably MSFT wanted the game to be released this Christmas and Bizzare didn't have enough time to implement Night textures. There's no way a racing rame like PGR4 can take up 9 gigs. Forza 2 and DiRT easily fit on one disk and they are far more advanced the PGR4.
Why do PS3 fanboys feel the need to bash anything that isn't Sony?nikolajz1

First of all I am top 10 on all racing games 360/ps3 but I can't use my gamer tag because it would cause problems (GEL) if you have a ps3/360 you know whoI am and I have also been top 10 on the xbox. You should also know if you have a 360 my times on pgr3 speak for themselves. So in no way amI bashing the 360 without having played and dominated on it. The facts speak for themselves a feature bizzare wanted to include could not fit on dvd-9 end of story.

So Bizarre creations has basically just owned this whole forum. LOL.sonicare

[QUOTE="nikolajz1"]I love how the Sony fanboys are attacking PGR4 and Bizarre. If you are so happy with your PS3 then why do you care if day/night tracks are included in a game thats not even on your system. Someone must be feeling a bit worried about" teh bluuuuuuue raaaaaay". The truth with this is probably MSFT wanted the game to be released this Christmas and Bizzare didn't have enough time to implement Night textures. There's no way a racing rame like PGR4 can take up 9 gigs. Forza 2 and DiRT easily fit on one disk and they are far more advanced the PGR4.
Why do PS3 fanboys feel the need to bash anything that isn't Sony?BrooklynBomber

First of all I am top 10 on all racing games 360/ps3 but I can't use my gamer tag because it would cause problems (GEL) if you have a ps3/360 you know whoI am and I have also been top 10 on the xbox. You should also know if you have a 360 my times on pgr3 speak for themselves. So in no way amI bashing the 360 without having played and dominated on it. The facts speak for themselves a feature bizzare wanted to include could not fit on dvd-9 end of story.

Sorry, what's your gamertag again?

[QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"]

[QUOTE="nikolajz1"]I love how the Sony fanboys are attacking PGR4 and Bizarre. If you are so happy with your PS3 then why do you care if day/night tracks are included in a game thats not even on your system. Someone must be feeling a bit worried about" teh bluuuuuuue raaaaaay". The truth with this is probably MSFT wanted the game to be released this Christmas and Bizzare didn't have enough time to implement Night textures. There's no way a racing rame like PGR4 can take up 9 gigs. Forza 2 and DiRT easily fit on one disk and they are far more advanced the PGR4.
Why do PS3 fanboys feel the need to bash anything that isn't Sony?Vyse_The_Daring

First of all I am top 10 on all racing games 360/ps3 but I can't use my gamer tag because it would cause problems (GEL) if you have a ps3/360 you know whoI am and I have also been top 10 on the xbox. You should also know if you have a 360 my times on pgr3 speak for themselves. So in no way amI bashing the 360 without having played and dominated on it. The facts speak for themselves a feature bizzare wanted to include could not fit on dvd-9 end of story.

Sorry, what's your gamertag again?

Nice try look at the leader boards it should jump out at you my ring time on forza 2 got me badfeedback already cause i am too fast.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="BrooklynBomber"]

[QUOTE="nikolajz1"]I love how the Sony fanboys are attacking PGR4 and Bizarre. If you are so happy with your PS3 then why do you care if day/night tracks are included in a game thats not even on your system. Someone must be feeling a bit worried about" teh bluuuuuuue raaaaaay". The truth with this is probably MSFT wanted the game to be released this Christmas and Bizzare didn't have enough time to implement Night textures. There's no way a racing rame like PGR4 can take up 9 gigs. Forza 2 and DiRT easily fit on one disk and they are far more advanced the PGR4.
Why do PS3 fanboys feel the need to bash anything that isn't Sony?BrooklynBomber

First of all I am top 10 on all racing games 360/ps3 but I can't use my gamer tag because it would cause problems (GEL) if you have a ps3/360 you know whoI am and I have also been top 10 on the xbox. You should also know if you have a 360 my times on pgr3 speak for themselves. So in no way amI bashing the 360 without having played and dominated on it. The facts speak for themselves a feature bizzare wanted to include could not fit on dvd-9 end of story.

Sorry, what's your gamertag again?

Nice try look at the leader boards it should jump out at you my ring time on forza 2 got me badfeedback already cause i am too fast.

Nothing sticks out from the PGR3 or Forza 2 websites (I'm not near my 360 right now), care to tell me or are you confirmed to be lying?

Smells like 360 butt kissing. GT5 has 20 to 30+ tracks Woot.caseypayne69

That's because they want to charge you for the extra ones.. and the Jack@#$ keep buyin em..

[QUOTE="caseypayne69"]Smells like 360 butt kissing. GT5 has 20 to 30+ tracks Woot.OhSnapitz

That's because they want to charge you for the extra ones.. and the Jack@#$ keep buyin em..

Yea, MS = hardcore milkage. We don't need next gen bluray for discs because once the disc is full we will bill you for extra content later that could have been added for free if we in BluRay. MS is just using its current line of consumers.

Oh dear god.....

If it's an anti-PS3 rumour then it's not true until the dev/Sony say so yet when an anti-360 rumour crops up it doesn't matter if the dev quashes it?

Fanboys.... they never learn

covhunter

You know it goes both ways, if a developer of a PS3 game says something about the game being limited I may try to rationalize it but I won't deny it and I SURE AS HECK won't trust the company's PR over the developers.

kinda odd that they go from saying DVD9 us creating limitations and then suddenly saying it's fine Ragashahs

Its not odd at all, its a developer making an honest statement and typical corporate PR trying to dispute it so as to not make themselves appear incompetent or harm their publisher's (Microsoft's) image.

[QUOTE="legalize3"]

no bizarre not me you wont catch me

manningbowl135

Of course not. Unless they come out tomorrow and say blu-ray is the future of gaming. Then they'll be the most honest people in the world after Phil Harrison.

If its the game development team, sure. If its the board of directors, etc. then no.

Only people I see in DC is cows, I believe a dev over you bovine anyday, deal with the fact every cow that claimed "bu bu teh Blu-ray is needed" just got served a big dish of ice cold crow.fixer293

How about two devs speaking directly to the most devoted part of their fanbase? Why exactly would they lie?

Them? The first statement was made by an idiot talking out of his ***, then Bizarre had to make a statement refuting the idiot to clean up the mess he created by shooting of his mouth. There's nothing more to it, Bizarre haven't made two conflicting statement.

Pripyat

Members of the development team said it, they wouldn't lie. They know what they are talking about and the corporate part of BC are issuing damage control. End of discussion.

One dev =/= Bizarre. You fail.

Pripyat

At least three.

Ben: "No matter what the size of your optical media is, there will ALWAYS be limitations. It's the job of Bizarre to work inside those limitations and make the game the best it can be within them."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Admitting that DVD9 is limiting the game.

Alan M: "In the past we've always had day and night and to do this we've had to create a duplicate set of textures for most of the buildings, obviously there is the space on the disc and the time it will take make all those night time textures."

The Boy Chris: "Um, disc space isn't an issue - we just decided to do more cities with more environments, but without time of day. We have *double* the amount of locations/tracks than PGR3, we *could* have chose to keep the same amount but used different locations.

DVD space was never an issue, we just decided to use it this way rather than another. To be honest I don't understand the fuss, we're still going to knock your socks off.

PS: (2 disc solutions and 'installing' solutions are very, very bad. Way to split your userbase.)"

In otherwords they can have one or the other but not both due to DVD9 limitations.

P.S. That last highlight is for those who are still using the "put it on another disc" excuse.

Good thread, the fanboy **** flinging is great. But grow up and do a little thinking. We are talking about two conflicting statements between one developer and the entire company. Who do you think has a better idea of what is included in the game, what is cut and why? The one guy who's doing textures or lighting or cars or tracks, or the guy speaking for the whole friggin Bizzare Creation's team?

Also as the original post says including day/night tracks would require a completely new set of textures and would essientally mean the day and night versions would be on the disk as entirely different tracks, it would not just be a simple lighting change. Now I'm not a developer but I have a feeling thats going to take a good chunk of man-hours to do, considering you have 10 tracks plus the weather effects. Combine that with the September release date, and that would leave Bizzare Creations with about 1 month maxiumum development time to both design the new tracks for the lighting and send them off to QA, then fix any problems. Like I said before I'm not an expert, but that hardly seems like enough time.

Finally I have to laugh at the cows on this one, whenever Kojima or Factor 5, both significant supporters of Sony, come out and say that BR is absolutely neccessary their word is absolute truth. But when Bizzare Creations, a developercurrently working on games for the 360, PS3, PC, Wii and DS comes out with a statement correcting what an employee previously said, MS is obviously just paying them to shut up.