Bloodborne has some SERIOUS design issues!

Fantastic game with spot on combat mechanics and terrific world building and art. BUT... fucking hell did they seriously drop the ball in some very important areas. Like... I'm shocked that some of this got passed the design phase.

Farming for blood vials and silver bullets:Why, why, WHY!!! Why isnt there a minimum quantity that refils after reviving at Hunters Dream/nearest lantern? What the **** is the purpose of making players farm for basic shit everytime they tackle a hard boss or area?

Lanterns dont refill health/ repopulateworld: No, you have to go through two fucking loading screens that go past the minute mark combined, by warping to Hunters Dream and warping back again to do this. Why?

Vendors only at HuntersDream: Same shit I said above. Ran out of vials, silver bullets and Molotovs? Well **** you good hunter, go look at 70 second loading screens to restock.

Summoning costs Insight:Goddammit what the hell is this shit? Why is such a vital part of the "Souls" experience locked behing a price tag that demands seriously limited currency. Oh you're out of Insight outside of a boss battle? Well tough luck cuz summoning NPCs to help ALSO costs you insight. "Where is the nearest place to get more", well you kill the boss you needed help defeating of course. Genius!

Summoning items hidden behind Insight level cap:Oh btw they also cost Insight... what? Did I tell you Insight is a limited resource offered in very specific instances?

40 second loading screens: Something everyone hates, magnified by 400% due to how frequently the game forces you to watch this fucking logo branded 40+ second black screens EVEN if you're not dying a lot. If you are then well, I really do hope you like the logo.

Shit randomized drops:Consumables, Consumables, Consumables, Consumables, Consumables, Consumables, Consumables, ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz......

Purists keep giving vast amounts of shit to Dark Souls 2 because of design decisions Myazaki would SUPPOSEDLY never make, and this is somehow getting a pass?

All of this crap adds up to a big design flaw that seriously hurts the flow of the game, because farming is now mandatory.

@Thunderdrone: Most of the things you mentioned are not design flaws ... are things you just dont like.

The only poor "design decision" in that list is the one about lanterns. Everything else is a matter of opinion.

If you don't die frequently or use blood vials frequently you don't need to farm for them, and you can spend echoes on blood vials instead of just leveling up.

And whining about co-op costing a resource: lol. Just beat the game solo like you're supposed to instead of cheesing it.

it got a 9/10

right

gamers love the hell out of it and are giving 9.5 on metacrtic calling goty

critics love it gamers love it

ppl saying goty

there no flaws in it period

Not sure if you realized but insight is a play on world tendency. The more you have the more difficult enemies/bosses are. The less you have the easier they are.. Also if you are out of insight and want to summon for a boss, you can gain insight by helping someone else beat the boss. Help someone else first and then get help for yours.. Pretty neat

No. Asking players to farm for a health bar is not a thing I dont like. Asking players to go through a 3 step operation with 3 long loading screens to refill basic consumables is not a pet peeve. Locking even NPC summons and summon items behind limited currency and even a minimum currency cap is not just a personal issue.

Its requiring that I waste time to have even the starting consumable setup. None of these things make the game better from a gameplay standpoint or even complements the world building. Its bad game design.

if they fix the load times and frame rate dips the game would be a solid 10/10 wouldn't u say for gameplay/art style/setting/gaming bliss right?

I'm playing offline though. I have to pay for PS+ in order to have a viable way to farm for Insight... to summon a fuckin NPC helper. lool

Have you tried not taking damage? This may improve your experience.

None of these issues mar the experience even slightly. Most of them don't even exist.

the game is not meant to be played offline.. coop and invasions are an integral part of the experience.. damn sony for charging for online though. I dished out for 3 months of it myself. basically made bloodborne an $80 game for me

#teamdontgethit

Drop the "get gud" shit. Its a game where a low level grunt can off you in 4 hits and bosses wipe you out in one attack combo. Its designed so more than half of your health bar is tied to your blood vial count and how and when you choose to heal as an important strategy to master.

Hiding this consumable behind two loading screens and a price tag is fucking dumb.

Been invading all day and i have to agree. Having to not only farm for vials but being forced to port to your hub just to refile Blood Vials is what the hell were they thinking? Blood Vials spam in a duel is another thing that is a waste of time but that's just Demon's Souls 2.0 for you. Everything you've mentioned is true and its only been my 2nd day of doing pvp and im already annoyed as f*ck-.-

I believe we call them features now

You know what your stupid post deserves? That From patches in a 200% increased damage for all enemies and bosses. Just dont get hit buddy.

And if you do and die multiple times, you have the very smooth and not at all tedious farming routine of hud traveling to restock and staring at loading screens.

This isn't coming from the "git gud" MLG man-child sentiment, but you shouldn't complain for getting your ass kicked.

In Devil May Cry 1 and 3, you can die in 1-3 hits from a lot of things, even on normal difficulty. Additionally, healing items decrease your score in that game. The catch is that there is a way to play both games without taking serious damage.

Also, having a high level character doesn't make you good at the game. It means you've played for a while. You see, From Soft doesn't reward you for game time, something many gamers today can't comprehend with the degree of hand-holding in "games" today.

In the end, "when you choose to heal" is only a strategy you should have to implement for making mistakes, which you should avoid. Don't plan on getting hit.

Are you getting your ass kicked in Bloodborne...b/c thats suppose to happen.

I play completely offline, with no PS+ sub and I'm loving the game. Just did my first Chalice Dungeon run tonight too.

Thank you.

Its like people feel obliged to ignore dumb shit this game does because they love it. I love it too, but its still throwing at me bullshit demands that Dark Souls and Dark Souls II never needed to be tough but fair.

Honestly, if these "serious design issues" at the only ones you can bring up and are negated by the fact that you can reach the 99 Blood Vial cap by spending excess Echoes, by just farming specific mobs, and by the fact that you can avoid pretty much all damage in the game anyway, I'd say that Bloodborne must be a lot better than its predecessors. Because I can list more important design issues for all the other Souls games--things beyond health resources and the online mechanic.

Loading issues are a big negative, but that's a technical issue, not a design issue.

Technically, that already exists in NG+.

I haven't started on the game yet, but from the list the one thing that will definitely bug me (aside from load times of course) is the lanterns not resetting enemies.

Eh. Don't know if it's any different in this game, but I never summoned anyone in the Souls games, NPCs or other players. I'd be open for invasions since I was online, but that's about it.

So i wasn't aware of Insight changing the enemies difficulty, running around with 68 insight (was over 70 but bought armor) and i can't even tell if its harder. Can it be of my high insight that im having trouble finding people to invade? Does insight even matter for invasions? God damn i wish Cracked Red Eye Orbs were back...................

I've been around for these series since Demons launched in Europe. I know what From asks of players and I never plan on getting hit.

Having zero consumable health is NOT the base experience From is offering though. You are SUPPOSED to have some vials. Its designed to punish when you get hit, but not to throw you in the world and ask that you travel between lanterns with just one health bar as standard difficulty.

There is litterally no excuse for locking basic stuff behind loading screens and killing off the minimum quantity respawn from Dark Souls with the estus system. Its the first "Souls" game that literally punishes the player with non progressing gameplay time when they run out of shit. Be it blood vials, bullets or Insight.

No I think the servers are also something that are being patched up. A lot of people have said both invading and summoning hasn't worked very seamlessly

People are so fanboy crazy over this game they're dismissing legitimate issues and complaints all the while mocking the OP, pitiful... No wonder less than 1% play these games, it's where all the scum of the gaming community gets funneled into.

Bunch of white knights who think this game is going to take their virginity, ridiculous...

you often get 93/100 on metacritic if you put serious design issues to your game. yes.

your opinions are propably just bad, since not a single damn critic seems to agree with you.

Certain Insight cap levels give certain enemies additional moves, increased frenzy stats etc... Also new "things" appear in the world.

Doesnt matter for PVP, I think.

@Thunderdrone:

I believe you get insight from Boss fights in the Chalice Dungeons as well if it helps. You can do that off line.

And there is a reason why NG+++++ enemy stats are locked behind multiple playthroughs and not the base gameplay experience. Which wouldnt matter to you because "dont get hit" seems to be your solution to any Bloodborne complaint. Right?

I hope you're not leveling up or upgrading your weapons. Just dont get hit lol

Yeah but I'd have to farm for chalice mats to get access to a means to farm Insight, to spend on Insight costing materials and features.

This is some next level Inception/Xzibit shit right there.

Thanks f*ck. Something must be messedup with the servers because on my leve75 it can take up to 30 minutes (if not more) to find a single person to invade

Now that i think of it, wouldn't it be nice if we could access our storage from lamps? Why isn't this a thing when we already had in previous Souls games? I really do hope these kind of things could be added in patches cuz small things like that could make a big quality of life difference.

Yeah that does suck. I was pretty lucky and trip over the ritual mats in previous runs. In fact... that's all I am getting in Chalice runs. I agree with you on that point then. They need to address how people get insight without ps plus.

Says you. The entitled X number of estus flasks was only introduced in Dark Souls. And they did that because there was no home base to buy stuff. And if you're deep in the depths of say....Izalith, you needed some way to get health potions without backtracking to look for a vendor.

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls II, and now Bloodborne, all have consumable health refills. So it's more of a trend than an exception. Your assumption that it's NOT the base experience From was intending is clearly a crapshoot of an assumption.

The way I see it, you just suck so badly at the game and over-consume your blood vials to a degree that you're always out of them. Blood vials aren't even that tedious to farm. The stretch from Tomb of Oedon lamp backwards to Great Bridge (Cleric Beast area) can easily yield you 15 vials. There are 4 brick trolls, 2 werewolves, and 2 other hairy guys....in which each will drop 2 vials 80% of the time. The run takes 5 minutes. 30 vials in 10 minutes is too much of a chore? Or do you consume 90 vials in half hour? If you do, get better at the game.

No we didn't. Most Souls games didn't even allow it. If you can buy items and access your storage from your bonfire/lamp, nobody would bother going back to the home base. Then there would be a design redundancy there - a home base without a function. And From Software is too sharp to make a mistake like that

Like I said in my previous post, the all-in-one bonfire concept was solely a Dark Souls concept, because for one reason or another, Miyazaki felt that a home base just wouldn't work for the game. The closest thing it had was an NPC rendezvous point called Firelink Shrine

lol'd at "serious". Yeah there's a few minor annoyances but whatever.

Most of your complaints are scrub tier whiny issues. Try to suck less

They introduced that in Dark Souls because otherwise if you ran out of Estus Flasks and died, after reviving at the last bonfire rested you would have to go soul farming and warp to Firelink to purchase estus flasks before trying again. Sounds like a shitty time-wasting roadblock right? This is what Bloodborne proposes. Except Bloodborn has terrible loading times.

@jhcho2 said:

Your assumption that it's NOT the base experience From was intending is clearly a crapshoot of an assumption.

Oh really? I dunno. Believing that From expects 90%+ of players to always have blood vials before every game progressing stretch of gameplay seems like a reasonable and logical assumption on my part.

@jhcho2 said:

The way I see it, you just suck so badly at the game and over-consume your blood vials to a degree that you're always out of them.

Speaking of assumptions... lol

@jhcho2 said:

Blood vials aren't even that tedious to farm. The stretch from Tomb of Oedon lamp backwards to Great Bridge (Cleric Beast area) can easily yield you 15 vials. There are 4 brick trolls, 2 werewolves, and 2 other hairy guys....in which each will drop 2 vials 80% of the time. The run takes 5 minutes. 30 vials in 10 minutes is too much of a chore? Or do you consume 90 vials in half hour? If you do, get better at the game.

YOU SHOULDNT HAVE TO FARM PERIOD! I dont give a shit if it takes 10 minutes. I dont want to warp to HunterD., warp to Great Bridge, farm for fucking life consumables and warp back to HunterD. to start the warping game all over again.

It was a system that was streamlined elegantly in DS by cutting off the need to refill a minimum amount on farming sprees. I'm asking for a 5 blood vial refill after every death. Not 20 and a BJ!

You assume that this annoys me because I have to deal with it a lot. Actually, it annoyed me the FIRST time I had to do it. Shit is shit, and it sucks no matter the amount you have to go through to get back on track. Saying "its not that much of a chore" is not an excuse when there was none in the previous games.

Bloodborne is not your child. You dont have to sugarcoat its faults.

what are you talking about the hub having no function? And what about leveling up? what about merchants (extremely important for bullets/vials alone)? what about upgrading your weapons and changing gems/runes? Im not asking to do ALL of these things on a lamp but only access storage. Lamps feel useless in this entry of the series. You can't port between them (which im fine with that but still) nor access your storage. If loading times were 5sec as it was in DkS2 on pc then i wouldn't care (even tho vials must refile each time you touch the lamp *unless you don't have any left in your storage* because after an invasion against a gank squad you're forced to port to the hunter's dream to refile) but that's not the case, far from it.

Pretty much this. With all seriousness, I hope the game remains niche for the most part. Because if not, when you have 5 million players and only 1 million actually play the game right while the other 4 million complain about stupid things like the TC, games get dumb down and easier such as: health regen/unlimited health vials, easy to beat enemies, autosave and/or bonfires, lamps every two minutes, etc. This crap happens to almost every game that gets big.

Yes because fanboys never overrate anything right?

Then you shouldn't be playing any Souls game. Farming is something a good majority of players resort to in Souls games. If it's not for vials, it's for souls. You make it sound like it's okay to farm for souls but not health potions. But then someone else can come in and say nobody should have to farm souls to become more powerful to make progress.

Of course there will be a few players here and there who did not have to resort to soul farming, and are quick to boast about it in a condescending manner, but for many players out there, farming is a necessity - be it souls or items.

Complaining about farming in a souls game doesn't really give you a high ground on your argument. Almost all of the games are built on that principle. The only time you might not need to farm is when you're really good at the game. But when you're that good, vials, potions and consumables cease to be a problem anyway.

I knew this shit would happen. Like clockwork, you propose cutting off pointless hoop jumping or point out non-chalenge related issues, and the Harcore Master Gaming Warriors of Nicheland come out of the woodwork defending every single last shitty design decision of as if everything is related to what makes a game challenging and good.

Bloodborne is perfect then.

That loading screen? Its fair punishment for dying or needing to warp so much.

Easy Insight farming requiring online? Well its fair punishment for not paying for PS+ of course.

Mandatory farming for consumable items? "Well dont get hit, dont get poisoned, dont use offensive consumables and dont use the shotgun, n00b."

I agree with some of the points, the blood vials farming is a step back, I think the strict amount dark souls used was much better because when you died you'd be able to start fresh at a good point. I died some place and had 0 left, and it was a tough area so I had to back track to murder easier enemies... this is just nonsense. Dark souls had it right, it was punishing but fair when it kicked you back into the world to continue working on a challenge.

I think the player should always be able to summon, but subtract 1 insight if its available. Its essentially a bar to entry for using the small resonate bell. If your good at the game, you'll get it much faster to be able to help people. If you suck at the game than you shouldn't be able to test a boss battle at the cost of someone else's game. It means helpers are more likely to know what they are doing when you summon someone for help.

The hub is kind of pointless, it basically acts as a way to access a few services which could have all been added to the lamp interaction. Its just an unnecessary area causing a loading screen, and if you need to go there give the player the option of to access the shop from an option when using the lamp.

I more or less agree with the other stuff you've said but I can't really go with this. I'm playing "online" but I've never summoned nor helped anyone else and I still have A LOT of insight. The game drops them like candy later on.

I rarely farmed in Dark Souls. It IS optional. And when I did it it never felt like a complete waste of time because I was actually spending souls in a finite resource. My soul level.

Bloodborne gives players no choice but to mess with farm runs and hub warping just to give you the basic consumable setup for your next strech of progress. If you cant tell the difference then I dont know what else to say.

And I never said any of this was gamebreaking. I'm making good progress and having a lot of fun, but thats despite these shitty design decisions, certainly not because of them.

@Thunderdrone: I think what you mean to say is your spending souls in a permanent resource,

You farm souls, you level up, failing challenges this soul level persists no matter what

Farming blood vials, you gain a stack, you fail miserably, back to farming blood vials (or souls to purchase a consumable resource)

Basically they turned farming from a way to get a permanent boost to character stats to a necessity if your struggling. It IS bad design for a game that is centered around a decent challenge but excessive punish ments. It just add's insult to injury because you just failed, but you can't try again until you warp out to an area where you can farm vials until you can attempt the challenge again... and if your still learning the boss repeat the farm between attempts.

The game drops it regularly if you are progressing. I had the unfortunate decision of buying some Insight costing stuff at the vendor and having my summon bell fail to summon an NPC hunter 3 times (I'm serious). And now after three attemps at killing a boss I'm stuck with zero vials, zero bullets and zero Insight outside of a fog door.

My only choice now is to farm for all three before I try again. Something that was not needed for any of these options, including NPC helpers, in DS. Its not the end of the world, but its a baffling step back. Its time wasting filler as a barrier for basic starting setup.

None of these are actually an issue.

Summoning has always cost something, in Dark Souls you had to be human, which cost humanity to summon someone. You're getting help, it should cost you something, and it's ingame, and you get insight pretty quickly in that game.

The insight well existing isn't an issue, if anything it adds a merchant for more rare shit and forces you to play with more insight. Which is supposed to be a reward for playing the game that is getting harder (more insight=harder game), but the shop sucks. That's the real issue, yours is bullshit.

The last one is a matter of goals, and I don't think Bloodborne is nearly as loot oriented as its predecessor, if anything Bloodborne has less weapons/attire in general, and those you find on the map. Everything you pick up is a consumeable, which I think is fine, in an action game that's usually how this would work, and for the most part Bloodborne is more of an action game than a RPG.

Anyway the quality of life stuff in the game is totally lacking, and vial farming/not being able to reset at lamps is super annoying. The former I got around by just using left over souls after a certain point, so I stopped running out of vials until I got to a boss fight that whipped my ass (which still a bad design move), and the latter is more an annoyance than a game ruining aspect of the game. Because the level design, combat, and boss fight are all fucking ace.