Both Scorpio and Pro are "Half-baked 4k" . . .and that's probably a good thing for the industry.

How's that for a thread title?

Look, I get it, Switch is here and that means Generation 9 is upon us. With the much hyped release of the PS4 Pro and the upcoming launch of the Xbox One Scorpio, it is high time that we trim fact from hyperbole around here like good gamers. Especially if that means starting an argument and making people go into the reality kicking and screaming. Team Scorpio is "really" starting Gen 9 with their Scorpiozord while Team Pro "really" started Gen 9 with their Horizon powered AAA-bringer (face it, SW, that argument was inevitably coming) and Team Switch is waiting for Netflix while playing Ocarina of Pwnage with an ACTUAL gen 9 machine in hand.

So, now that I have thrown salt in everyone's faces and got your attention, why would I say that the half-gen upgrade consoles are half-gen consoles and why would I be so out of my mind to say that it's a good thing for the games industry? From my vantage point, I feel I have to ask you all a far more pertinent question:

Did the jump to High Definition consoles teach you anything at all?

I mean, seriously, how many more developers and publishers need to go belly up chasing art asset budgets to oblivion before you guys ever learn? Also, for that matter, how many 4K televisions do you think are really out there? Hell, how many PC gamers are on 4k monitors for that matter? Believe it or not, both Microsoft and Sony are doing right by the videogame industry by taking these half measures but a few of you are chasing the PR talking points right to Dumbassville, population you.

It's not the tech specs that make PS4 Pro or the Scorpio "half-baked" 4k consoles, but the games themselves that do. Sony and MS want to sell you some hardware, so don't expect full truthfulness from them and CERTAINLY don't expect it from their small armies of brand loyal cheerleaders. If you think, for even a moment, that any but the most wealthy and talented developers and publishers can afford to make 4k AAA games in the here and now you are a delusional twit. Full stop. Try to enjoy playing games rather than technical specs or talk down to anyone about the business of the videogame industry because you do not know a damn thing about either. You need to dial down the System Warsing and dial up a good game more than anyone.

Microsoft and Sony know that they are not in a position to cut the umbilical chord on Generation 8 and make way for a full-blown Gen 9 4k console with 4k as a mandate. They can't justify it to the developers and there's not enough 4k tv owners out there to justify it to the gamers if we can all be honest for a second. Developers would not be able to bring games to such a machine within budget or on time. It is far better to develop a 1080p game and tack in 4k support with some selectively redone textures and lighting for the time being. Even high-end PC gaming is struggling to bring graphics cards to market that leave systems CPU-bound at resolutions like 1440p and 4k. So, can we please just take this moment to see the forest for the trees and appreciate what we have and what we may be getting rather than loading the trebuchets full of hyperbole and unloading on each other?

What makes switch gen 9?

The fact that the Generation 8 Nintendo can't play its cartridges.

I can't take anyone seriously when they call out Sony and MS for their upgrade being half gen but remain silent about the Switch which is not even on the same level as current gen and is barely faster than the WiiU in addition to being incapable of handling native 1080p.

People need to chill about what arbitrary number we assign to the generation. It doesn't change the reality of the systems themselves. Who cares.

4K? LOL The Pro is running 720p in 2017.

And still drops below 30fps, lol.

The PS Pro is half assed. The Scorpio does native 4K.

@zeeshanhaider: @kvally:

When it comes to gaming, all 3 are half-assed.

PC is half assed too.

Not gonna lie, didn't read your whole OP.

My take on it is that 4k is pointless as an immediate goal for consoles. Does native 4k look fantastic? Absofuckinglutely. But it would be better for these consoles to get their shit together with 1080p @60fps, or fvck, even 720p @60 if that's what it takes.

Trying to make the 4k jump right now just means the same old asset quality and effects with the same old ghetto framerates, but with a sharper image quality. It's a waste. It's a huge resolution bump in exchange for letting everything else remain the same. It's an extra burden on developers to effectively render the kind of shit they were already rendering but at a much higher resolution. A whole lot of effort going in without a whole lot in return.

Anyways, I suppose that's what you're getting at. It's best that they don't attempt native 4k as a standard.

And before some basement dweller comes in here with some reductive logic like "oh then we might as well stick with SD!", no numb nuts, that's not what I'm saying. Tech advances, resolution increases. But now is not the time.

You pretty much nailed it. Like clockwork, the cheerleader faction went right to Dumbassville :(

If the Scorpio is half baked, then PS4 pro must be quarter baked.

Yet, 6 is not 2 x 4.2?

If the PS4 is Generation 8, but the PS4 Pro is over twice as powerful, does that mean the PS4 Pro is Generation 16?

Any more marketing hyperbole you want to throw at us?

Niether of them are 4k machines and anyone who believes they are or will be are just setting themselves up for dissapointment.

I'm less concerned about the upgrade supporting 4K than I am about their ability just to make better games looking games at a 1080p standard, I honestly think chasing this resolution horizon is a big waste of potential when it comes to wasting the benefit of hardware upgrades. Until this stops happening, I don't ever think we'll really see any big jump in quality between console generations.

I agree... that's why I hope the devs don't necessarily choose native 4k all the time, but rather push frame rates or graphics. Which is what Phil Spencer said last week, that it'll be left up to devs how they use the power.

maybe your PC

@pyro1245: nope

This is why it's smart that Nintendo opened the floodgates to indie devs on the Switch. They will be Nintendo's third party. Dev kits are reportedly five hundred bucks. It plays nice with Unity and Unreal 4. They don't need to go out of business because of textures or lack of realistic farts in their games. Chasing 4k gaming will mean even fewer big league devs and far more games that focus on graphics and not gameplay. There's a place for that but it surely will catch up and ruin a lot of devs and studios.

Or you could wait for E3 and actually see the new hardware in action.

The Pro is half baked that's the only known in your topic.

Well, if you had read the OP, you'd realize the tech specs mean jack shit for your half-baked 4k console.

Nice. It is up to the assembler whether they want to half-ass a PC build or not, after all.

I don't even really think the current and upcoming consoles are half-assed (well maybe the PS4 Pro). I just think you get what you pay for.

As long as the IQ looks as good as Horizon im fine with that. Game barely has a jaggy in sight on PS4 pro and looks stunning.

couldn't disagree more i can't go bacck to 720p ive been pc gaming at 1080p since 1999 theres no going backk to 720p for me im at 4k right now on pc 1440p

once the cats outa the bag theres no going back my eyes can't handle 1080p anymore they just can't i crank it up the text looks blurry everything looks ugly

can't go back i cant im like that cat guy who says 1080p only im 4k only

Then Microsoft is going to be stuck in Generation 8 forever. Have fun in generation 9 where you can't play your old games on new systems. Also Scorpio isn't half baked (as said by multiple developers), it's actually much stronger than people expected, but I get that this makes you insecure so you need to overcompensate for it.

I've stated quite a number of times that if MS shows the dedication they did to getting exclusives that they did for the 360, I would buy one. As far as compensating goes, have you seen your game lineup this year? Lately, your faction is spinning fairy tales, and to be blunt, it revolves around tech specs you still don't really know at that.

Let that sink in. You have theoretical numbers on a piece of paper, and literally everyone else here has games. Don't be hurling spears at me, I ain't having it.

@Shewgenja: good point where is xbox's answer to horizon zero dawn and zelda im just not seeing it wtf are they doing at xbox

Well, and that's a subset of the real question, which is:

If they haven't attracted content for their normal Gen 8 console, what will they have to entice people to the upgrade? Otherwise, the specs are just going to sell themselves, and that has never done well.

Like I said in an other topic, I still prefer the Xbox library compared to the one from PS4. I don't care about Nioh, Nier, Yakuza, and all of those games. I just prefer different type of games, and I don't get the problem with the Xbox library. It's never good enough, we've had a lot of new exclusives, and new IP's this gen, but it's just not for you. In bold the games I've played, or going to play, other's are just IP's Microsoft helped funding (top of my head, there are probably more).

• 2 new great Forza Motorsport/Horizon
• Sea of Thieves
• Halo 5
• Rare Replay (play this every month)
• Sunset Overdrive
• Ryse
• Ori and the blind forest
• Max curse of brotherhood
• Gears of War 4
• Cuphead
• ReCore (new IP, but shit)
• State of Decay 2
• Screamride (although that's more indie)
• Zoo Tycoon (more for kids)
• Crimson Dragon
• Quantum Break
• Halo Wars 2
• Crackdown 3

How is this not good enough in 3 years, when there are also multi-platform games I love to play like FIFA, Battlefield, GTA 5, Assassins Creed Unity, and those games you get for free with GwG. I get that you might not like those games, and that you prefer the PS4 library, but don't say Xbox has a shit library, when you mean a shit library FOR YOU.

This is some early damage control save it for after E3 ;)

Very well said!

as an owner of both my most played PS4 game is overwatch, i also have it on XB1 but it's not even in my top 3 played

top 3 played PS4 games

1) overwatch

2) rocket league

3) none really but it'll probably be horizon by the time i beat it.

Top 3 played XB1 games

1) Halo 5

2) titanfall 1

3) Gears 4

I've spent over a thousand hours playing games on XB1 that aren't on PS4, I've spent less then 30 hours playing games on PS4 that aren't on XB1. I have overwatch and rocket league on both and ME:A on pre order for XB1, PS4, and PC. too bad EA didn't do cross play on ME:A MP. i got all 3 versions like i did for ME3 becuase i play with friends on all 3 platforms.

Xbox Scorpio is more 4k than PS4 pro is. Less than three months of Damage Control from the Sony fanboys.

1. . . 2. . . 3. . . 4. . . 5. . . 6. . . titles in there that would not benefit one iota from 4k graphics?

I wish I had made this thread before the PS4 Pro launch. Frankly, the points would have been just as viable. Then again, after hearing an XBox chief talking about there being 7 games in development for Scorpio at launch, it seemed like a good time to get it out of the way. I'm pretty much banking on this thread being forgotten by E3 and that suits me just fine. After all, the aim is to talk about the industry and its slow transition to 4k gaming, not the 2tflops making astronomical differences between two plastic boxes.

Do you think I care about 4K graphics? I would actually prefer that some devs are smart enough to use that computational power to create more realistic worlds. Not just graphics, but the whole world itself, how it lives, and breaths. Also we were discussing the library, which is actually quite good (for me), and that the Scorpio is going to be a very capable device will be seen at E3.

Problem with the PS Pro is that it's being held back by the PS4 too much. Due to the high power difference between Xbox One, and Scorpio devs will really put an effort in optimizing for both, and thus people who care about graphics will actually see that it's worth buying Scorpio.

Sthap just sthap it. We all know you have a crush on the Scorpio.

I did not read that massive wall of text. I will say this I find it funny that people ignore the switch. Zelda gets a 10 but runs 900p with an unstable frame rate using low res textures lmao. Yet people take shots at the ps4 pro ???

People throw shade at project scorpio?? I also like how the pc never gets the respect it deserves here. Just my 2 cents.

@FastRobby: We'll see soon enough. I think people will be paying closer attention to the games lineup than the pixels.

except for 3 years we've heard about the .7tflop difference being astronomical. and before that even less.

Fanboys just move goalposts. gamers just enjoy good games and if it's in 4k, well thats an added bonus. some of us like myself have had 4k TVs for years with very little true 4k content. It'll be nice to have more 4k content and plus the ability to play 4k blue rays. scorpio nails it for the people like me with 4k TVs

@kvally: @pyro1245:

PC is not better than NES or SNES. I'm

PS4 Pro and Scorpio are Gen 8 consoles. They are like a SegaCD or 32x.

Switch is a handheld that plugs into the TV. It's more the successor to the GBA than the WiiU. Yes, GBA games played on the TV as well. Nintendo currently does not operate in the home console market.

You're assuming you know what the Scorpio is like, it could be a substantial jump over the Pro if it gets Zen. Even with a custom Vega, 12GB of RAM, and higher memory bandwidth it's much more likely to hit 4k than Pro.

Pro(possibly Scorpio) is tied down by the Jag CPU. It's not as simple as saying "I'd take 60fps any day" when you are CPU bound.

Fact is, if the game runs at 1800p on Pro, it can already run 4K on Scorpio. Also, you need to differentiate between 4K assets and 4k res. A game like Forza only takes 3.5x as much power to get from 1080p(X1) to 4k(Scorpio).

@darkangel115: 0.7 x 4 = 2.8

Considering 4k is 4 times the resolution of 1080p, quite literally, the gap between the Pro and Scorpio is still smaller than the gap between Ps4 and Xbone pushing a 4k screen respectively.

Irrelevant for obvious reasons......

that literally makes no sense. the gap is there no matter how you slice it. unless you want to imply that pro at 1080p will look better then Scorpio at 4k despite having lower IQ, in which case, you can play the scorpio game at 1080p and it'll blow away the pro.

No. What doesn't make sense is talking about two half-baked 4k mid-gen upgrades like one is mystical giraffe pussy while the other one is chopped liver in an age and time when the lion's share of game developers simply aren't pursuing 4K as a baseline and neither are both companies making these things. What doesn't make sense is spending an entire generation trying to convince this forum that 0.7 whuchamahoozits on a 1080p screen isn't really all that bad and then acting like pumping up the resolution to 4x makes a lower gap a DEFINING MOMENT IN GLORIOUS GAMING HISTORY. You're peddling hype. Is what it is. Own it if you must continue.

Of course games matter, this is why next couple of months before e3 is important! In April, we have Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, it maybe a port but Mario Kart will sell on a console that has current hype. May has Splatoon 2, a follow-up from the first game on the Wii U and expecting continued success.

@Shewgenja:

PC VR level games runs only on Scorpio not on the XBO/XBO S.

Higher quality art assets are already being develop due to gaming PC's existence.

He's talking about Resolutions and consoles life support, games

Heaven help me if all of a sudden the Lemmings start hyping VR as their saving grace at this point. I would pay for a ticket on that ride.