Both Scorpio and Pro are "Half-baked 4k" . . .and that's probably a good thing for the industry.

Despite the flaming tone of your post I will attempt to answer your points.

"Also, for that matter, how many 4K televisions do you think are really out there? Hell, how many PC gamers are on 4k monitors for that matter?"

Well here is your answer http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/19/4k-uhd-tvs-are-being-adopted-faster-than-hdtvs/ this article shows that the adoption of 4k UHD tv's is outpacing the adoption of HD tvs with projections showing growth. That is the reason.

Creating 4k assets is not that different from creating any other art asset. I dont know if you are purposely trying to mislead people to make it sound different. The main adjustments would be to ensure that your engine can handle the texture maps. Out putting maps from the creation tools normally used in art asset creation is really really simple. When I was still in school we did a minium of 2k for texture maps.

Microsoft does not want to sell you hardware they want to sell you software, which has been the point of the company since its existence. So this statement you make about them just wanting to sell you hardware is completely wrong.

As for the rest of your post its just hyperbolic fluff to make it sound like you have a real argument, how many times must people explain to you that Scorpio is not a new generation? Is it typical for people to change the meaning of these concepts just so they can start a thread in system wars.

@Shewgenja:

The increase from 1.31TF to 1.84TF is 40.46% while the jump from 4.2TF to 6TF is 42.86%. This is quite literal.

As far as your link, it's only for the US and we are talking about a global business. You also completely sidestep the issue of how many developers and publishers suffered while HD adoption ramped up. Face it, the console manufacturers learned their lesson and won't make a full 4K push until the market is established for such a product. Gen 8 prints money, Gen 7 set it on fire.

Creating 4k assets now with readily available tools in the now might not seem like a big deal but the market also has not become competitive. As things stand, there's some amount of parity between First and Third party AAA developers because of the democratization of tools as well as the medium on which they are used. You actually reinforce my point. 4K gaming right now is still a hugely expensive endeavor that plenty of studios are not prepared for. Hell, plenty of A and AA games don't punch 1080p assets on the nose if we're talking shop. Right?

Microsoft knows that hardware is the vehicle on which they will sell that software. Hell, the reason why the XBox even exists in the first place is because Bill Gates wanted to make sure the console didn't replace the PC one day. Time flies and PC sales are flagging as the rise of the smart phone, tablet, and perhaps VR/AR creep more and more into their space. All of your arguments are strong except this one. You can't possibly sit here and pretend that MS has taken the overall losses on a division like they have for the XBox brand if they don't REALLY have a strategic desire to compete in that space. Zune? Gone. WebTV? Gone. XBox? Here, and say hi to the new one at E3. . . Come on man.

I also don't understand how you can conclude my post is hyperbole when we actually agree that Scorpio isn't a Gen 9 machine FYI.

Right, but both systems are being asked to take on 4x the workload on a 4k TV. Thus, neither box really taking the mantle as "serious" 4k.

PC GPU lesson 101.

PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU is mostly memory bandwidth bound i.e. 218 GB/s physical memory bandwidth.

If you apply Polaris memory controller 77 percent efficiencies and Polaris memory delta compression factor 1.36X on 218 GB/s, it yields ~228 GB/s.

PS4 has effective memory bandwidth around 135 GB/s with 76.7 percent efficiency. Notice memory controller efficiencies are similar between PS4 and Polaris 10.

The memory bandwidth difference is 1.68X.

Both higher FLOPS (up to memory bandwidth bound for most cases) and higher memory bandwidth affects render time duration.

------

For comparison, Maxwell's has memory delta compression factor is ~1.56X not including tiling cache render advantage.

Maxwell/Pascal GPUs are able to convert it's TFLOPS potential into memory write action faster than AMD counterpart.

The reason why R9-390X has better FLOPS effectiveness over Fury X/Fury Pro is mostly due to memory bandwidth.

Fury X's effective memory bandwidth is about 387 GB/s with crappy memory delta compression or 333 GB/s effective memory bandwidth when it's crappy delta memory compression doesn't work.

R9-390X's effective memory bandwidth is about 311 GB/s. R9-390X doesn't have delta memory compression feature.

For most cases, frame rate differences between Fury X and R9-390X reflects their effective memory bandwidth differences.

Fury X, 980 Ti and 1070 are the next level GPUs above R9-390X.

For Scorpio,

If you apply Polaris memory controller 77 percent efficiencies and Polaris memory delta compression factor 1.36X on 320 GB/s, it yields ~335 GB/s.

Using standard GDDR5-7000 timings, it's 328 GB/s i.e. MS did state more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth.

If you apply Polaris memory controller 77 percent efficiencies and Polaris memory delta compression factor 1.36X on 328 GB/s, it yields ~343 GB/s.

The memory bandwidth difference from PS4 is ~2.54X

The memory bandwidth difference from PS4 Pro is ~1.50X

Both higher FLOPS (up to memory bandwidth bound for most cases) and higher memory bandwidth affects render time duration i.e.

1. Faster memory read = less time reading

2. Higher FLOPS = less time solving compute problems.

3. Faster memory writes = less time writing. Memory write requires computed result to be ready.

All 3 points contributes to render time duration and must be done under or equal to 16 ms (60 fps) or 33 ms (30 fps)

R9-390X can do 4K when PS4 Pro's version checkerboard 4K.

My point, FLOPS is not the only performance factor.

Vega has tile cache rendering feature similar Maxwell/Pascal.

----

The raw FLOPS FP32 power jump between PS4 (including CPU) and PS3 is about 3.68X (including CELL).

The raw FLOPS FP32 power jump between XBO (including CPU) and Xbox 360 is about 4.0X (including PPEs)

The raw FLOPS FP32 power jump between Scorpio's GPU and XBO's GPU is about 4.5X.

The raw FLOPS FP32 power jump between PS4 Pro's GPU and PS4's GPU is about 2.3X, hence "half assed" hardware upgrade.

.Microsoft is consistent with their raw power FLOPS jump between hardware changes i.e. X360 to XBO to Scorpio chain.

My hands are gonna fall off from posting the "viewing distance - resolution graph" 8000 times a day.

@Shewgenja: I read your post but you're almost always wrong so does it matter?

As usual you always miss a big chunk of the equation and then post some half baked hypothesis.

Scorpio could have a brand new CPU/gpu that would enable it to do 4K/30 native.

lts also very possible that they could still only be shooting for 4K on some titles and others will be 1080/60.

All in all your post is just damage control for the Pro by trying to lump Scorpio in with it.

It's funny how all the same people here that bashed Xbox One for lower resolution suddenly all want to claim resolution is now the enemy when their favorite console will soon be holding the weak end of the stick.

Like I said wait til E3 we'll be serving the Crow cold.

WTF are you even talking about? I cannot make heads or tails of what you are saying for example.

"Creating 4k assets now with readily available tools in the now might not seem like a big deal but the market also has not become competitive. As things stand, there's some amount of parity between First and Third party AAA developers because of the democratization of tools as well as the medium on which they are used. You actually reinforce my point. 4K gaming right now is still a hugely expensive endeavor that plenty of studios are not prepared for. Hell, plenty of A and AA games don't punch 1080p assets on the nose if we're talking shop. Right?"

What are you talking about? Your not saying anything in this statement. 4k and 1080p are render resolutions. Game assets in particular their texture maps are created at a higher resolution. What market has not become competitive? What parity between first and third part are you talking about? I am not joking I am not trying to be rude but you are not saying anything that makes sense.

"All of your arguments are strong except this one. You can't possibly sit here and pretend that MS has taken the overall losses on a division like they have for the XBox brand if they don't REALLY have a strategic desire to compete in that space. Zune? Gone. WebTV? Gone. XBox? Here, and say hi to the new one at E3. . . Come on man."

Well first there is no Xbox Division as much as you fanboys keep trying to create one, they operate as part of Windows and devices group. So I am not aware of this loss that keeps getting mentioned. In every financial report we receive the loss is explained and it is never "because we spent to much on the system" or whatever people keep framing it as. The goal is to sell software, period there is no if and not alternative. The Xbox serves an important role for Microsoft it is the least intrusive gateway into the Microsoft eco system when it comes to entertainment. So no the goal is not to sell more boxes that endgame would be a failure.

Scorpio is going to be irrelevant without titles. Something Microsoft is sorely lacking.

Play anywhere and game pass might help keep current owners, but to draw new gamers to your platform you need must have games.

The OG Xbox had must have titles. So did the 360 for a big of its lifetime.

Xbone has no reason to buy it. Flops and cancelled games, with services tied in do not draw people to a platform. Games do.

Instead of begging for multiplats, Phil should have been paying for high quality titles.

Scorpio is 4.5x as powerful as Xbox One, and pixel computational demand does not scale linearly with resolution from 1080p to 4k(i.e. Forza takes 3.5x not 4x the power to get to 4k).

Pro is 3.2x as powerful as Xbox One, so short of the 3.5x more power needed to run a 1080p Xbox One game at 4k.

Pro is 2.3x as powerful as PS4. Scorpio is 4.5x(actually 4.6x if you round) as powerful as Xbox One. 4.6/2.3 = 2 or "half-ass jump".

They cant. They want things to be the way they have been since the beginning of video games in terms of gens, exclusives, arguing. We are just a bunch of people that never outgrew play ground arguments about gaming.

If PS4 Pro's 4.2 TFLOPS GPU has GTX 980's tile cache rendering + kickass delta memory compression, the out come would be different.

On pure shader MAD/FMA operations, both Maxwells and GCNs are very similar i.e. it's the surrounding hardware that bounds GCN's CU power.

Without Vega's improvements, AMD has to throw raw hardware power against NVIDIA's price segment counterpart.

--------------

Scorpio's estimate from R9-390X results.

The graphics details from the above benchmarks are higher than XBO's graphics detail settings.

PS4 Pro version is 2560x1440 resolution

https://www.digitalfoundry.net/2016-11-23-hitman-ps4-pro-vs-ps4-improved-in-every-way

HIS R9 390X IceQ at 1070 Mhz (6 TFLOPS) has 31.7 fps average at 4K with very high settings.

Checkerboard for PS4 Pro's 4K.

R9-390X doesn't include Vega's improvements.

----------

AMD's Vega difference

GP104's native FP16 is 1/64 the speed of FP32.

Your GP104 has the following SM features

1. 2.4X rate integer 8 bit

2. 1.2X rate integer 16 bit... Think of DirectX 8 era pixel shaders.

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation. No memory bandwidth reduction with Fp16 usage.

4. single rate FP32.

Heavy optimized NVIDIA Gameworks games would be geared towards Maxwell/Pascal strength.

All GCN version 1.0 to 1.3 has the following CU features

1. single rate integer 8 bit

2. single rate integer 16 bit

3. single rate FP16 via FP32 emulation for GCN 1.0/1.1. It's naïve FP16 on GCN 1.2 and 1.3, hence reduce memory bandwidth usage.

4. single rate FP32

GCN 1.1 e.g. R7-360 and R9-390X

GCN 1.2 e.g. R9-380X and Fury X

CGN 1.3 e.g. RX-480.

Vega architecture has the following NCU features.

1. quad rate integer 8 bit

2. double rate integer 16 bit

3. double rate FP16.

4. single rate FP32.

Current AMD GPUs needs very high FP32 TFLOPS to speed up other data types, while Maxwell/lesser Pascal GPU with lower TFLOPS hides their higher integer performance.

TressFX running on Vega's double rate FP16 feature.

R9-390X estimate is only for baseline performance if Scorpio recycles GCN version 1.1/1.2/1.3 architecture. If Scorpio has Vega NCU, it would be faster than R9-390X.

Scorpio with 6TFLOPS FP32 GPU and Vega NCU

1. quad rate integer 8 bit = 24 TIOPS. Rivals GTX 1080.

2. double rate integer 16 bit = 12 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds your GTX 1080.

3. double rate FP16 = 12 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds your GTX 1080.

4. single rate FP32 = 6 TFLOPS. GTX 1080 is superior to Scorpio with FP32.

VS

R9-390X with 5.9 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 5.9 TIOPS, Scorpio exceeds R9-390X.

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 5.9 TIOPS, Scorpio exceeds R9-390X.

3. single rate FP16 = 5.9 TFLOPS, Scorpio exceeds R9-390X.

4. single rate FP32 = 5.9 TFLOP, Scorpio slightly exceeds R9-390X.

Fury X with 8.6 TFLOPS FP32 GPU and normal CU

1. single rate integer 8 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

2. single rate integer 16 bit = 8.6 TIOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X.

3. single rate FP16 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Scorpio exceeds Fury X

4. single rate FP32 = 8.6 TFLOPS. Fury X is superior to Scorpio in FP32.

http://wccftech.com/343i-frank-o-connor-xbox-scorpio-beefy/

although I probably "know" in that I might have seen it in a slide or something, it's literally not something I have time to think about now and I actually couldn't remember whatever specs I've been exposed to even if I was tortured. I literally couldn't leak or answer a question that went beyond "Can I do this? Does it support that? How many of these could it render?"

What I do remember is that it's beefier than I expected.

PROJECT SCORPIO IS A "FULL BLOWN NEXT-GEN MACHINE" SAYS XBOX DEV

Creator of Ori and the Blind Forest, Thomas Mahler took to NeoGAF to answer a question about whether Scorpio is a PS4 Pro style console update, or a whole new generation of Xbox console. His answer - it's sort of both:

"Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library."

That's a little outside of the company line - Microsoft has previously downplayed the idea of a separation between its consoles, even saying that Scorpio will put an end to the idea of console generations altogether.

Mahler also reiterated his point on backwards compatibility, saying that, "from this point on, similar to PCs, you'll not lose your library when you buy a next-gen system."

Xbox's Phil Spencer - who played the first games on the new system this week - has previously made this point clear, but has also said that all games released on Scorpio will be playable on Xbox One, a point Mahler doesn't cover in his post.

Half baked or not, Horizon Zero Dawn is the prettiest game I've ever played. PS4 pro for the win!

none are 9th gen consoles

they are all half assed

Microsoft is consistent with raw FP32 FLOPS jump from Xbox 360 to XBO to Scorpio.

The FLOPS power gap between Vega 11 type GPU vs XBO is larger than Xbox 360 vs XBO

Vega 11 at 6 TFLOPS vs XBO power jump

1. Integer 8bit, 24 TILOPS vs 1.31 TILOPS = 18.3X

2, FP16, 12 TFLOPS vs 1.31 TFLOPS = 9.16X

3. FP32, 6 TFLOPS vs 1.31 TFLOPS = 4.5X

XBO at 1.31 TFLOPS vs Xbox 360 power jump

1. Integer 8bit, 1.31 TILOPS vs 0.240 TILOPS = 5.5X

2, FP16, 1.31TFLOPS vs 0.240 TFLOPS = 5.5X

3. FP32, 1.31 TFLOPS vs 0.240 TFLOPS = 5.5X

PS4 Pro already has double rate FP16 feature, but gimped by memory bandwidth, hence it's "half-ass'ed" upgrade.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pro-bandwidth-is-potential-bottleneck-for-4k-but-a-thought-through-tradeoff-little-nightmares-dev

Mervik noted that, “The bandwidth is a potential issue, especially when running 4k, but it’s probably a thought-through tradeoff that they found necessary to make.”

PS4 Pro's APU size = ~321 mm^2

Scorpio's APU size = ~362 mm^2

Scorpio is not a simple overclocked PS4 Pro.

@Shewgenja: So funny you call the Scorpio half-assed upgrade, when the upgrade from Xbox One to Scorpio is bigger than the upgrade from the Wii U to the Switch.

@pdogg93:

Maybe if you're only talking about games on the PS4. Even then I think Uncharted 4 edges it with higher quality graphics in most regards. Horizon wins points for being open world though, and I would agree that it's the best looking open world game I've played on the PS4.

@pyro1245: "Irrelevant for obvious reasons......"

You two brought up PC.

Yeah, but PlayStation has all these awesome exclusives, while the XBOX is pretty irrelevant.

TC is spot on. Both systems are middle gen upgrades for the respective consoles. PS4 Pro was a very good strategic move from Sony since it improves performance just enough to make it stay relevant with mid range PCs and Sony has awesome devs like GG that can take that hardware and make possibly the best looking game on any system. In the meantime Scorpio is gonna flop because, even though it's going to be more powerful than PS4 Pro, it won't be noticeable for the vast majority of gamers and on multiplat games the differences are going to be minimal. Besides M$ doesn't have a dev with the talent of GG that can really squeeze the juice out of the hardware to the max which would be difficult too considering Scorpio has no exclusive titles so optimization will be compromised.

Lems are thinking Scorpio will not be half-arsed but they are getting dupped by M$ like usual and they don't learn. When HZD keeps being the best looking game on consoles even with Scorpio on the mix we will begin seeing their damage controlling and tears. They are so predictable. Lems just own themselves, they should smart up.

I detect a note of insecurity in your post. Almost as if you fear and are worried about the scorpio in someway. Guess we will see at E3.

Your Mac may be!

Scorpio has additional 4 GB of memory storage which leads to higher texture quality.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-ps4-pro-vs-pc-comparison

And secondly, it's equally clear that the PC version of Rise of the Tomb Raider's very high texture preset offers a significantly higher level of quality on the core artwork. Cherry-pick key scenes from the mere two minutes of 4K footage released by the developer and it looks like a night and day difference when stacked up against the fully enabled PC version. Even if you watch our comparison video at 1080p resolution rather than the native 4K, it definitely stands out.

On the one hand, this highlights a fundamental weakness with PlayStation 4 Pro. Even though developers have access to another 512MB of RAM (presumably swiped for the vast 3GB system reservation), it's not enough to accommodate the 4K texture options that developers are increasingly offering with their titles. So in the case of Rise of the Tomb Raider then, it's no surprise that the PS4 Pro version offers assets in line with the existing Xbox One game, equivalent to the high texture quality setting on the PC build. It's a definite limitation - especially as Project Scorpio from Microsoft seems set to feature 12GB of memory

Scorpio's estimate from R9-390X results.

The graphics details from the above benchmarks are higher than XBO's graphics detail settings.

HIS R9 390X IceQ at 1070 Mhz has about 6 TFLOPS has 31.7 fps average at 4K

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-for-honor-face-off

Ubisoft may not have been able to provide a 60fps experience on consoles, but the 30fps line in our performance testing never wavers where it matters - in the gameplay. PS4 Pro is even more solid, based on our open beta testing. For the PC owner looking to enjoy all the visual embellishments and the bump to 60fps, GTX 1060 or RX 480 will both take you where need to go

PS4 Pro delivered 30 fps while GTX 1060 and RX-480 has 60 fps.

@zeeshanhaider: my mac is full assed

who cares if it's half baked, that's good enough for me.

Lol Trying to lump them together.. don't try that crap. Half assed Poo doesn't belong in the same sentence with Mighty Scorpio. :P

Took this screenshot on my PS Pro the night before last in Horizon Zero Dawn.....DEM GRAFFIKS

what the hell are you talking about? i never champion a system like others do.

my point was this whole forum pretended that 900p compared to 1080p was a massive difference but not the cows want to say 1080p to 4k is no difference at all. I was just pointing out how hypocritical you are being. you sound really insecure. Sorry your worshiped console fell a little short this time lol

@zeeshanhaider: "Your Mac may be!"

Aren't those overpriced?

I'll say this much. The only big IF in this whole debate is IF MS can deliver the goods with Scorpio.

If they deliver a console with brand new cpu/gpu thats capable of actually rendering games at 4K and 30fps natively its a huge win for them, which is definitely possible if they actually have Ryzen in it. I'd wager its not even going to be all games, just specific titles like Forza and the big AAA multiplats that want to do it. The rest will push for 1080/60 with upscaling since the S is still the 'main' Xbox console this gen.

The TC is using hyperbole from the opposite end of the spectrum of what we actually saw happen from the beginning of this gen. The PS4 sold huge numbers based on 1080p marketing hype, especially after it was revealed that the Xbox was running games at 720 and 900. Cows here still ride that factor to this day.

PS4 was running games at 1080/30 mostly, but it was a big enough factor to make people flock to it during the first two years when Sony had no new exclusives besides the launch titles.

Contrary to this forum, the majority of console gamers play mostly multiplats. The tons of 360 owners that flocked to Sony this gen didnt switch because of Sony exclusives they switched because of the bad X1 launch and the hype behind PS4 having more power/better multiplats. But I could easily see a bunch of them flocking back IF Scorpio lives up to the hype, not to mention the early X1 adopters who will also upgrade. Cow trying to say Scorpio wont sell are in denial since all the evidence is to the contrary IF it lives up to the hype.

No matter how the TC tries to sell it, 4K is the new 1080. Its the new hype and come the holiday season, people will be buying 4K because thats what the stores are telling them to get. It already started last year when good 4K tvs dropped to below $1500. In the next few years all new tvs will be 4K. Nevermind the fact that almost no TV content providers actually broadcast in 4K yet.

Is there a bit of reality in his sentiment that devs should be making 1080/60 games instead of jumping forward? Sure. But the primary motivating factor behind the post really seems to be damage controlling for the Pro, and the fact that Sony actually made a huge blunder with it since they will behind powerwise for at least 2 years. That is unless they screw all the people that bought the Pro and bring out the PS5 earlier than expected.

So thats the real crux of the matter here. Sony played themselves and their fans rushing out the Pro because they thought they just had to outdo the Xbox One S and MS pulled a rabbit outta their hat with Scorpio. PS4 was Sony's hail mary at the start of this gen and Scorpio is MS' hail Mary now. in Sony's defense they finally do actually have a stream of games coming out to counter balance it unlike at MS at the beginning of this gen which made the choice easier to make.

Have to wait for E3 to see if its a good play. But all the other tertiary factors MS has been implementing in the meantime look pretty good, hopefully the dont screw it up.

Making resolution the one and only selling point of a new console was a shitty move from Sony, one that Ms can easily capitalize on. Ms isn't in a position to be lazy and Scorpio is the perfect opportunity to re-launch the Xbox one. I expect they're looking into opening up the OS and taking inspiration from Valve and Nintendo for their new controller as well.

Isn't it time we stop worrying so much about pixels and start carrying about gameplay?? I mean the games are so good looking that the the time/required to make them look a little better just isn't worth it imo... I have a high end pc with a 1070 gpu, but the most fun I had this year is playing torment and overwatch, both games that isn't close to take full advantage of my graphic card...

I agree 100%.

Its just a phase. Sony and Ms are bouncing off each other like they did to Nintendo with the Kinect and Move, except this time they're barking up the wrong tree focusing solely on higher resolution. We know Scorpio wont have any next gen exclusives but Ms probably has a few more tricks up its sleeve.

The meltdown over the Scorpio has been happening since its announcement and folks are going into full damage control mode as the details of the system is nearing reveal. I anticipate full meltdown upon full reveal.

The Scorpio and Pro both guarantee us 1080p 60fps though, which is good enough for most gamers at this point.

@Bread_or_Decide: Totally disagree, its called technology. What are they supposed to do? Not evolve? Stay stagnant? This is what the tech industry does and its their jobs.

A win for every Pro and future Scorpio owner.

This thread is funny. So much arguing about power. Just build a PC already if you want power in gaming. Regardless, competition is healthy in the console space and without it, prices would be way too high. The PS4 Pro is a great machine imo and I'm sure Xbox Scorpio will be great as well. Games will still be awesome and everyone will be happy. But as always, keep fighting the good fight system warriors. Those plastic boxes need you to make them great again.

@Shewgenja: First off, its not half baked. Its called the industry moving forward and its called competition. I don't know why anyone would not want to pursue 4k as the price of 4K TVs have dropped dramatically and the market will only grow from here. You would be foolish to just sit there and do nothing. Why don't you ask Nokia or Blackberry or hell even MS what happens when you sit idle. All these new iterations are great for gamers no matter how you feel about it. No one is forcing you to purchase the new systems. You can very much just stick with what you have an still enjoy all the very same new games that will be coming out in the future. Get a grip will ya?

IF PS4 Pro has 1920x1080 at 60 fps, Scorpio would on 2560 x 1440 at 60 fps (straight 1.50X advantage without factoring any Vega improvements).

Scorpio's 4 GB extra VRAM still leads to PC's higher texture quality difference.

Scorpio's 1.5X higher memory bandwidth can maximise double rate FP16 feature.

IF Scorpio game has 4K has 30 fps average (6 TFLOPS), 3840 x 1080p would be an option for 60 fps.

If Scorpio game has 4K has ~40 fps average (6 TFLOPS), 1/3 to 1/2 shaders ported to double rate FP16 feature would be an option for 60 fps. Effectively 8 TFLOPS to 9 TFLOPS.

AMD has attributed 4K gaming for Scorpio which they haven't applied for PS4 Pro.

Scorpio is a Full Fledged 4K console as stated by multiple developers so stop trying to down play the Scorpio when you pretty much know nothing about it. Sorry if I trust a Dev that is actually creating games on Scorpio HW over a forum poster.

People use this argument to minimize the difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro however it's misleading.

The difference between PS4 and XB1 is minute.

PS4 has 8 more CU's with 500 Gigaflops of computational advantage (about a PS3 console sized difference) Scorpio vs Pro is at Least a 1,800 Giga Flop difference (a PS4 console sized advantage plus more)

PS4 and XB1 have = amounts of RAM

PS4 has more Main Ram Bandwidth

BUT XB1 has 32 Megs of ES high Bandwidth specialized Ram to counter the lower Main Ram bandwidth so the difference can be mitigated if ES Ram is used properly.

XB1 has a slightly Faster CPU than PS4

XB1 and PS4 games generally look the same with PS4 games having slight advantages most of the time.

Scorpio vs Pro is a different story.

1.8 - 2 Teraflop's, basically a whole PS4 console.It's a next Gen GPU with increased efficiency, 50% more Bandwidth, 50% more RAM and Much better CPU. The Potential is there to see huge differences if Devs decide to use the HW to it's full potential.

It's also the largest increase going from 1 console to the next at 4.7 TF's

You missed my point completely and I even mentioned in my OP I am a happy Pro owner and now twice that I would buy Scorpio if it has exclusives. Right now, you can't even bench CPUs using 4K with top-end graphics cards in PCs because 12TFlop cards still aren't head above the crest. I'm 100% positive that once the 9th gen consoles from Sony and MS are finally unveiled that this thread will make way more sense to people.

@Shewgenja: I didn't miss the point. You think this stuff is not worth it at this juncture. However, just because it may not make all that much sense right now does not mean that the industry should just wait for everyone to catch up before proceeding.

Well lets hope the scorpio is a major success and if it's any good then I will consider spending my hard earned cash but at the end of the day i do care about graphics but i also care more about the games and after all we're all gamers aren't we so like i said if the Scorpio turns out to be just as good or better than the Pro then that can only be good for the consumer.

R9-390X OC (6 TFLOPS FP32) is a baseline reference point without any Vega improvements.

@Shewgenja said:You missed my point completely and I even mentioned in my OP I am a happy Pro owner and now twice that I would buy Scorpio if it has exclusives. Right now, you can't even bench CPUs using 4K with top-end graphics cards in PCs because 12TFlop cards still aren't head above the crest. I'm 100% positive that once the 9th gen consoles from Sony and MS are finally unveiled that this thread will make way more sense to people.

Are you saying Scorpio has the same results as PS4 Pro?

Scorpio's estimated results from R9-390X without Vega improvements

The graphics details from the above benchmarks are higher than XBO's graphics detail settings.

HIS R9 390X IceQ at 1070 Mhz has about 6 TFLOPS has 31.7 fps average at 4K

Gears of War 4 has bloated NVIDIA Gameworks effects e.g. Screen Space Reflections, Depth of Field

Current gen consoles cant even run most of its games on 1080p60. Why do they think that they need the jump to 4K? I believe 60fps should be bare minimum on games nowadays.

Now they are going to shove 4K30fps in our face like it is all we want and need.

@Shewgenja:

I think both the Ps4Pro and Scorpio will both have some games native 4K and many more not native 4K and both will use the checkerboard or dynamic resolution scaling.

The people who thought the PS4Pro was PS4K were wrong and so will be the people touting Scorpio.