By the time 8GB DDR5 RAM actually means something the PS4 will be a gen behind

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

GDDR5 operates with two different clock types. A differential command clock (CK) as a reference for address and command inputs, and a forwarded differential write clock (WCK) as a reference for data reads and writes. Being more precise, the GDDR5 SGRAM uses two write clocks, each of them assigned to two bytes. The WCK runs at twice the CK frequency. Taking a GDDR5 with 5 Gbit/s data rate per pin as an example, the CK clock runs with 1.25 GHz and WCK with 2.5 GHz. The CK and WCK clocks will be aligned during the initialization and training sequence. This alignment allows read and write access with minimum latency.

xboxiphoneps3

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] I'm pretty sure it means that that using two clocks gives it minimum latency compared to one clock. Not compared to DDR3. So far DDR3 in general always has lower latency than GDDR5.xboxiphoneps3

GDDR5 SGRAM's latency https://www.skhynix.com/products/graphics/view.jsp?info.ramKind=26&info.serialNo=H5GQ2H24AFR

Programmable CAS latency: 5 to 20 tCK

Programmable WRITE latency: 1 to 7 tCK

Programmable CRC READ latency = 0 to 3 tCK

Programmable CRC WRITE latency = 7 to 14 tCK

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Where did you get this info from ?

Bebi_vegeta

Playstation 3 - Cell

• Developed by IBM, Sony, and Toshiba - mostly IBM, at Austin Texas
• Based on the Power4 architecture, the PowerPC 970 main core
• 7, 128-bit Floating point multiply-adders
• 256 Kbyte local memory for each SPU
• 1 PowerPC 970-based main core
• 512 Kbytes L2 cache connected to the 7 SPUs via a Token-Ring bus - which they used to inter-communicate as well
• 200 GB/s EIB L2 cache bandwidth
• 3.2 ghz clockrate
• 230 million transistors
• $400 million to develop, $100 to produce
• 4-way SIMD

Playstation 4 - Vector Co-Processor

• Developed by AMD
• Based on the X86 architecture
• 1, 512-bit floating point multiply-adder
• 1.6 ghz clock rate
• 512 Kbyte local buffer + the CPU core's main buffer
• Connected to the bus directly via a bus-interface unit, and to a CPU core
• About 300 million transistors
• $0 to develop, $80 to produce
• 307.2 GB/s buffer to execution unit
• 16-way SIMD
• 8 X86-based cores, each with 128-bit FP unit, L2 cache, and shared local memory between pairs of CPUs and between all 8

Doesn't seem as powerful as Cell does it?  In fact - it's way, way more powerful.  I just found this an interesting comparison.  This design is more powerful - as the CPUs do not require direct developer intervention to get them to perform, as opposed to Cell, which only worked if the developers specifically coded for it. 

16-way SIMD makes it 4 times faster, per clock.  I.e. to do 16 FP multiply-adds, it takes 8 cycles.  4 load-stores, followed by 4 multiply adds - the Cell.  But for the Vector Co-Processor to do 16 FP mulitply-adds, it takes 1 cycles.  The Out-of-Order, 512-bit load-stores load the data, while the Vector Co-Processor is performing the data.  Thus - the Vector Co-Processor alone is equal to 8 SPUs. 

Hmm interesting.

First of all, DDR is system memory. The memory in the GPU is GDDR. Got it? Also, RAM isn't the one you would say about the GPU memory. It's VRAM, an abbreviation of Video Random Access Memory.

I'm very glad that the PS4 has a PC-like architecture because it, like what you said, eliminates dodgy PC ports. Hopefully the next Xbox will follow. All for the good of PC gaming.

I do believe that PS4 memory is a single pool of storage for everything, including the OS and other processes. I can see why it's so big.

crippledmachine

First of all, when people use a slash as in own/posess, it is for terms that are interchangeable, synonymous, etc.

Game performance/graphical fidelity are not interchangeable, synonymous terms. Each are pretty much self explanatory (to those savy with said terminology, anyway). Now consider this: You're playing a game running at 1080P, 60fps, while downloading something in the background, while recording game play, while crosschatting..... Not really a big deal right? But consider the game conceptually has some kind of rewind feature (like one of the earlier Prince of Persia titles) and you're in a map or battlefield with x amount of other players. And once you hit the rewind, a particular clip is uploaded for other players to try out what caused you to hit rewind and take a crack at it themself.

Just brainstorming, but wouldn't you speculate that tricks like that would require a lot of system memory?

it still means something, its going to be a positive further down the line. Optimization and better API's will come along further improving upon the games we see.If KZ's made on a devkit with half that GDDR5 then further down the line with the extra 2gb'sih after various things like OS and the video sharing being factored in aswell as the whole being able to jump in and out a game with minimal hit then the RAM doubling could be justified. I mean look how far we've come with a split 256mb setup this gen, one can only ponder how things will be pushed with this setup.razgriz_101

On the DirectX overhead issues, AMD is pushing HSA for PC games. http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

it still means something, its going to be a positive further down the line. Optimization and better API's will come along further improving upon the games we see.If KZ's made on a devkit with half that GDDR5 then further down the line with the extra 2gb'sih after various things like OS and the video sharing being factored in aswell as the whole being able to jump in and out a game with minimal hit then the RAM doubling could be justified. I mean look how far we've come with a split 256mb setup this gen, one can only ponder how things will be pushed with this setup.razgriz_101

Optimization to a degree is the only thing consoles have going for them but many dont understand or are in denial that optimization includes using lower quality assets to meet set standards. And about API's the next consoles will be using the same API's that are on Pc as their basis. Direct x 11's overhead is small compared to direct x 9, and Nvidia and AMD are pushing for a even a lower LOC based API's for Pc which AMD already has started on Pc and will be part of the PS4 and next xbox. Also people should note that all overhead on Pc is taken care of by the cpu and as long as the cpu is fast there is no overhead to even think about.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Hmm interesting.

xboxiphoneps3

AMD GCN has an array of vector processors.

The 64 ALUs in each GCN CU are divided into four groups of 16 ALUs or "16-way SIMD" i.e. equivalent to 512bit wide SIMD.

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"] beyond3d forums

 

 

Playstation 3 - Cell

• Developed by IBM, Sony, and Toshiba - mostly IBM, at Austin Texas
• Based on the Power4 architecture, the PowerPC 970 main core
• 7, 128-bit Floating point multiply-adders
• 256 Kbyte local memory for each SPU
• 1 PowerPC 970-based main core
• 512 Kbytes L2 cache connected to the 7 SPUs via a Token-Ring bus - which they used to inter-communicate as well
• 200 GB/s EIB L2 cache bandwidth
• 3.2 ghz clockrate
• 230 million transistors
• $400 million to develop, $100 to produce
• 4-way SIMD

Playstation 4 - Vector Co-Processor

• Developed by AMD
• Based on the X86 architecture
• 1, 512-bit floating point multiply-adder
• 1.6 ghz clock rate
• 512 Kbyte local buffer + the CPU core's main buffer
• Connected to the bus directly via a bus-interface unit, and to a CPU core
• About 300 million transistors
• $0 to develop, $80 to produce
• 307.2 GB/s buffer to execution unit
• 16-way SIMD
• 8 X86-based cores, each with 128-bit FP unit, L2 cache, and shared local memory between pairs of CPUs and between all 8

Doesn't seem as powerful as Cell does it?  In fact - it's way, way more powerful.  I just found this an interesting comparison.  This design is more powerful - as the CPUs do not require direct developer intervention to get them to perform, as opposed to Cell, which only worked if the developers specifically coded for it. 

 

16-way SIMD makes it 4 times faster, per clock.  I.e. to do 16 FP multiply-adds, it takes 8 cycles.  4 load-stores, followed by 4 multiply adds - the Cell.  But for the Vector Co-Processor to do 16 FP mulitply-adds, it takes 1 cycles.  The Out-of-Order, 512-bit load-stores load the data, while the Vector Co-Processor is performing the data.  Thus - the Vector Co-Processor alone is equal to 8 SPUs. 

Tessellation

Hmm interesting.

Wow thanks for the info!

Good Lord :|

Beating this dead horse again, OP? Tell us something we don't know already. Consoles will ALWAYS be behind PC's.

The best thing about 720 and PS4 is the x86 architecture, which means PC ports will be proper ports. Games will be scalable if designed that way, so PC can take full advantage of the extra hardware it has... isntead of emulating parts or recoding parts to run on PC (poorly). That being said, current PC games dont use 8gb ram but will when PS4 generation games start coming on PC. Also, there is a good possibility that more ps games will be on PC this generation as it will cost the devs a lot less to do this while bringing ina lot more profit for them.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]it still means something, its going to be a positive further down the line. Optimization and better API's will come along further improving upon the games we see.If KZ's made on a devkit with half that GDDR5 then further down the line with the extra 2gb'sih after various things like OS and the video sharing being factored in aswell as the whole being able to jump in and out a game with minimal hit then the RAM doubling could be justified. I mean look how far we've come with a split 256mb setup this gen, one can only ponder how things will be pushed with this setup.04dcarraher

Optimization to a degree is the only thing consoles have going for them but many dont understand or are in denial that optimization includes using lower quality assets to meet set standards. And about API's the next consoles will be using the same API's that are on Pc as their basis. Direct x 11's overhead is small compared to direct x 9, and Nvidia and AMD are pushing for a even a lower LOC based API's for Pc which AMD already has started on Pc and will be part of the PS4 and next xbox. Also people should note that all overhead on Pc is taken care of by the cpu and as long as the cpu is fast there is no overhead to even think about.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]it still means something, its going to be a positive further down the line. Optimization and better API's will come along further improving upon the games we see.If KZ's made on a devkit with half that GDDR5 then further down the line with the extra 2gb'sih after various things like OS and the video sharing being factored in aswell as the whole being able to jump in and out a game with minimal hit then the RAM doubling could be justified. I mean look how far we've come with a split 256mb setup this gen, one can only ponder how things will be pushed with this setup.ronvalencia

On the DirectX overhead issues, AMD is pushing HSA for PC games. http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

bezza2011

[QUOTE="bezza2011"]

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

tormentos

Why would they be mad ?

As if PS4 is exlusive to Sony Fanboys...

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

[QUOTE="bezza2011"]

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

tormentos

What's wrong with the GTX 560 Ti? It plays at 1080p just fine.

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

AM-Gamer

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

Tessellation

No I just point out facts and you are the most butthurt hermit troll on the forum.  

[QUOTE="Tessellation"][QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

AM-Gamer

No I just point out facts and you are the most butthurt hermit troll on the forum.  

Look another butthurt comeback :cool: i want to see more tears puppet .

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="Tessellation"] look a butthurt paragraph dedicated to PC fans :cool: and dares to talk about ''butthurt'' :lol:Tessellation

No I just point out facts and you are the most butthurt hermit troll on the forum.  

Look another butthurt comeback :cool: i want to see more tears puppet .

Im not going to argue with a 13 year old that can never come up with anything of any value.  You stalk every PS bash thread and spam the same thing over and over again. You are just a bad joke at this point. 

[QUOTE="Tessellation"]

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

No I just point out facts and you are the most butthurt hermit troll on the forum.  

AM-Gamer

Look another butthurt comeback :cool: i want to see more tears puppet .

Im not going to argue with a 13 year old that can never come up with anything of any value.  You stalk every PS bash thread and spam the same thing over and over again. You are just a bad joke at this point. 

accuses others to act like ''13 years old'' insults back like 13 years old :cool:,more tears please

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]it still means something, its going to be a positive further down the line. Optimization and better API's will come along further improving upon the games we see.If KZ's made on a devkit with half that GDDR5 then further down the line with the extra 2gb'sih after various things like OS and the video sharing being factored in aswell as the whole being able to jump in and out a game with minimal hit then the RAM doubling could be justified. I mean look how far we've come with a split 256mb setup this gen, one can only ponder how things will be pushed with this setup.tormentos

On the DirectX overhead issues, AMD is pushing HSA for PC games. http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

AM-Gamer

What ?

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="bezza2011"]

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

jun_aka_pekto

What's wrong with the GTX 560 Ti? It plays at 1080p just fine.

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"] Developers have stated many times that you can never have enough ram,don't pay attention to some Hermits they are just sour grapes about the PS4 scenario,and since most of them have 560TI and integrated intel graphics they get mad..:lol:ronvalencia

What's wrong with the GTX 560 Ti? It plays at 1080p just fine.

I don't have it yet. Not until I finish playing Crysis 3 with No HUD. Besides, TressFX is optional, not mandatory. Not having TressFX on will not affect my enjoyment of a game. If TressFX is required to play Tomb Raider, then you have a point.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

What's wrong with the GTX 560 Ti? It plays at 1080p just fine.

jun_aka_pekto

I don't have it yet. Not until I finish playing Crysis 3 with No HUD. Besides, TressFX is optional, not mandatory. Not having TressFX on will not affect my enjoyment of a game. If TressFX is required to play Tomb Raider, then you have a point.

ITT: Some people don't know how VRAM with gpu power works.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="bezza2011"]

i think alot of people are missing the point of 8GB GDDR5, it's not the whole of games don't even use that much blah blah blah, it's not about that it's about giving the developer the freedom to do what ever they want, the gpu may not be amazing the cpu may not be out of this world, but with a good cpu, gpu, they can create thing what are way beyond what is capable at the minute because they have that whole lot of room to move about in with so much speed and memory. thats what the gddr5 gives them. stop thinking it's all about the games when the ram is about the publishers.

jun_aka_pekto

What's wrong with the GTX 560 Ti? It plays at 1080p just fine.

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] How's your Tomb Raider with TressFX at 1080p?04dcarraher

I don't have it yet. Not until I finish playing Crysis 3 with No HUD. Besides, TressFX is optional, not mandatory. Not having TressFX on will not affect my enjoyment of a game. If TressFX is required to play Tomb Raider, then you have a point.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

I don't have it yet. Not until I finish playing Crysis 3 with No HUD. Besides, TressFX is optional, not mandatory. Not having TressFX on will not affect my enjoyment of a game. If TressFX is required to play Tomb Raider, then you have a point.

tormentos

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

Bebi_vegeta

What ?

It was for the tc not you. 

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] PS4 isn't out yet bro. And by the time it does come out, a 760 TI will smoke the PS4 while still being cheaper :lol:tormentos

That is typical pc gaming. 

Lol at consolites in this thread, especially tormentos.

... for thinking PS4 will outpower the PC.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

You don't done know a dam thing about game development, and the funny thing is when the PS3 came out everyone talked about how the CPU was the least important feature and That it would be bottle-necked by its low ram.  Now that the PS3 has the ram every hermit cant wait to talk about how worthless it is.  Hermits are the most butt-hurt fan boy class here on SW and just because they build there own PC they somehow think they know something about developing game hardware. 

AM-Gamer

What ?

It was for the tc not you. 

Still make no sense... 

The average Joe who are gaming on PC and are'nt sitting here and bragging of how great PC gaming is at 8000x8000 res with 80xAA, is probably using a PC or laptop with those kind of specs or worse, which means PC gaming will probably get lower gamesales when the PS4 arrives and multiplats gets more demanding.

Martin_G_N

Yes PC will stop evolving from now on.

You think Sony invented the APU ?

Lol at consolites in this thread, especially tormentos.

... for thinking PS4 will outpower the PC.

crippledmachine

Yes PC will stop evolving from now on.

 

You think Sony invented the APU ?

Bebi_vegeta