This topic is locked from further discussion.
"Super Serious, Secret Agent, American Military guy that saves the entire world but can only carry 2 weapons" can!
Fo' realz tho, Doomguy would rip and tear his sh!t.
Ok so i'm sure we have all heard this question before. I still can't find a anyone who can beat Goku. In SSJ4 mode he is just 2 powerful. Superman is screwed, the hulk is nothing to him and I'm not so sure Batman would even stand a chance. GamersEntertainHis creator Jesus Christ is more powerful, he is god after all.
pre-crisis superman could
hell, Pre-crisis superman used to juggle planets
moreover, if we use the 'post-crisis superman has a power level of 15,000' logic, then the hulk can also beat Goku.
At his peak, the hulk was able to lift a mountain during secret wars.
using google I found this for mountain weight:
500 meters -> 10^12 kg
1000 meters -> 10^13 kg
2000 meters -> 10^14 kg
5000 meters -> 10^15 kg
and according to the dragon ball wiki the highest power level ever registered was done by Gogeta in super sayian, with a power of 2.500.000.000
so the hulk wins
No. Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace. So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though. First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note. It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely. Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion. Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself. Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes. How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed. The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills. Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds. If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.pre-crisis superman could
hell, Pre-crisis superman used to juggle planetsmoreover, if we use the 'post-crisis superman has a power level of 15,000' logic, then the hulk can also beat Goku.
At his peak, the hulk was able to lift a mountain during secret wars.
using google I found this for mountain weight:
500 meters -> 10^12 kg
let's say the hulk lifted a 1000 meter mountainthat's 100.000.000.000.000 KGso now we divide that by 32 (use the link I gave you) and we know that the hulk has the strenght of 312.500.000.000 mennow we take that number and multiply by a power level of 5 (remember the first human raditz met?) and we now we know that the Hulk has a power level of:1.562.500.000.000
1000 meters -> 10^13 kg
2000 meters -> 10^14 kg
5000 meters -> 10^15 kgand according to the dragon ball wiki the highest power level ever registered was done by Gogeta in super sayian, with a power of 2.500.000.000
so the hulk wins
rilpas
TC you better be trolling because if your not -_-
Superman and Hulk are screwed against Goku who in his SSJ4 form was KO'd by a blast that could not even destroy the earth in one attempt from Baby Vegeta....
No just No
As a lover of manga and comics nothing irritates me more than character wank due to lack of knowledge about other characters.
Casual feat from Superman
Another casual feat
Being impressive/powerful in the DBverse does not equal being powerful in the DCverse (Not going to bring in the Marvelverse in this because that is horrible overkill, Marvel is the most powerful fictional verse for a reason). Goku SSJ4 or otherwise dies to every single form of Superman except DCAU Superman (Which is Superman from the DC cartoons)
These other forms of Superman are so far above Goku that their battle would make an ant vs a bull look like a fair match.
Pre Crisis Superman (The Superman in those scans)
Superman 1 million
Cyborg Superman
Tanent Superman
Kal-El Superman aka All Star Superman (Punched a planet into a different dimension and lifted the equivalent of roughly a quarter of the earth casually with one hand)
Superman Prime (The combined force of the DBverse could not even dream of scratching this Superman that is how far above DB as a whole he is)
Goku and the DBverse as a whole aren't even that powerful when compared to other Mangaverses such as Sailor Moon, Saint Seya and the ridiculously overpowered Tenchiverse
All his greatest showings are the equivalent of chicken scratch to some of the things the various Superman's have shown.
High end feats from the best of DBZ and GT (Since GT is being used in that as well) are still not comparable to even average feats performed by comic Superman or Hulk.
Hulk as well breaks Goku over his knee with ease and contempt, Hulk has nearly beaten the likes of Sentry as well as matching and eventually overpowering Thor just to name a few.
Sentry has released enough energy to span universes casually.
Thor was able to temporarily cripple Galactus a being who is able to eat not only planets but entire dimensions as well as being able to survive the destruction of the old universe
Destroying a planet might be impressive in the world of Dragonball but when tangling with verses like DC and Marvel it literally means squat.
EDIT: Since speed is going to be mentioned in this.
Goku is far far *insert as many as you want* slower than comic Superman who is not only faster than light but many many *Insert many more* times faster than light.
Since when were DB movies cannon in anyway whatsoever.
DBGT is barely accepted as cannon because Toriyama never actually created a manga for it but instead he supervised the production of the series which was created by Toei animation as opposed to him creating it like he did with Dragonball and DBZ.
I ordered that game yesterday for $29. I'm still not sure that I want to play it :P Quicktime.{piccy}
end
NoodleFighter
[QUOTE="rilpas"]No. Assuming non-GT, I will use both characters maximum levels of power for this battle. Pre Crisis Superman vs SS3 Goku post Buu timeskip. I don't really need to explain how powerful Superman is, even mentioning that Superman was unable to beat Flash in a footrace. So I will focus on Goku. I want to start out by saying, no one knows exactly how powerful SS3 Goku is, as power levels stop being officially tracked after the Frieza saga, where Goku is stated to have a PL of 150 million. If you want my opinion on how I think his power scales up till the end of GT, you need only look at my sig. I will not attempt to use my fanmade power levels in a matchup like this though. First, I think it's important to define what a power level is. An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note. It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely. Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion. Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself. Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes. How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed. The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills. Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds. If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT. Holy mother of ball sacks.pre-crisis superman could
hell, Pre-crisis superman used to juggle planetsmoreover, if we use the 'post-crisis superman has a power level of 15,000' logic, then the hulk can also beat Goku.
At his peak, the hulk was able to lift a mountain during secret wars.
using google I found this for mountain weight:
500 meters -> 10^12 kg
let's say the hulk lifted a 1000 meter mountainthat's 100.000.000.000.000 KGso now we divide that by 32 (use the link I gave you) and we know that the hulk has the strenght of 312.500.000.000 mennow we take that number and multiply by a power level of 5 (remember the first human raditz met?) and we now we know that the Hulk has a power level of:1.562.500.000.000
1000 meters -> 10^13 kg
2000 meters -> 10^14 kg
5000 meters -> 10^15 kgand according to the dragon ball wiki the highest power level ever registered was done by Gogeta in super sayian, with a power of 2.500.000.000
so the hulk wins
fr3ddiemercury
[QUOTE="ugoo18"]
g0ddyX
Ah so Comic's > Cartoons.
So whos Supermans 'Enemies', if hes so powerful.
Higher being entities?
The likes of Braniac, Darkseid, Doomsday, Zod and Mongul to name a few.
Yes the various forms of comic book Superman are ridicoulusly more powerful than his pitifully weak cartoon or movie self.
Feats like the ones i listed
Sneezing apart a Solar system
Pulling dozens of planets with ease across the universe
Lifting the equivalent of a quarter of the earth in one hand (He could have kept going but the tests which he was undergoing at the time stopped there)
are casual common place things for some of the forms of Superman. The outright most powerful form of Superman which is Superman Prime is in turn ridicoulusly more powerful than anyother Superman i listed and makes those other comic book Superman's look very very *Keep inserting very for awile* weak
Some more casual feats of Superman
That's just using his breath, Goku and the entire DBverse as a whole are horribly outmatched and outclassed in everyway possible.
[QUOTE="rilpas"]Wall of textpre-crisis superman could
hell, Pre-crisis superman used to juggle planetsmoreover, if we use the 'post-crisis superman has a power level of 15,000' logic, then the hulk can also beat Goku.
At his peak, the hulk was able to lift a mountain during secret wars.
using google I found this for mountain weight:
500 meters -> 10^12 kg
1000 meters -> 10^13 kg
2000 meters -> 10^14 kg
5000 meters -> 10^15 kglet's say the hulk lifted a 1000 meter mountainthat's 100.000.000.000.000 KGso now we divide that by 32 (use the link I gave you) and we know that the hulk has the strenght of 312.500.000.000 mennow we take that number and multiply by a power level of 5 (remember the first human raditz met?) and we now we know that the Hulk has a power level of:1.562.500.000.000
and according to the dragon ball wiki the highest power level ever registered was done by Gogeta in super sayian, with a power of 2.500.000.000
so the hulk wins
fr3ddiemercury
What kind of herp derp power level scaling logic is this?
He needed a Spirit Bomb with energy from multiple planets to take down Omega Shenron who was easily beating down not only him but SSJ4 Vegeta as well (Take away Plot device and they would have died).
Multi Planet Spirit Bomb > Omega Shenron > SSJ4 Goku
In SSJ4 he was KO'd by a blast that required 2 shots before it could destroy the earth from Baby Vegeta.
How does someone who needed to gather energy from several planets (As in he could not generate enough power to do it himself) worth of people to bring down Omega Shenron now destroy universes.
Omega Shenron's universal destruction was only possible through a domino effect as opposed to outright destruction.
Also my question still stands since when were DB movies canon in anyway whatsoever, they have never been canon. Galaxy destruction is nothing new or particularly special to each of the Superman's i listed and in some cases universal destruction is no issue to some of them as well. If movies were canon then Goku should not have become a Super Saiyan during the Freiza saga since based on King Kai's reaction to his transformation into a Fake Super Saiyan in the Lord Slug movie it was his first time doing it.
Goku and the DBverse die many times over to comic Superman.
Lol what in the name of the Kaioshin is this?
Goku is just a really powerful Saiyan,with 3 Super Saiyan forms,in canon(4 in non-canon).
Why this forum?
Franklin Richards would just alter reality so Goku never existed.
Wanda Maximoff could probably do the same thing if Goku threatended her "children".
Captain Marvel as the insane God person destroyed the entire universe and helped remake it so he could do that and just remake it without Goku.
Hell... everyone could probably beat Goku in some instance or another.
Buu destroyed Earth = All Marvel and DC heroes owned. Though, Naruto characters can cheap shot Goku and might win.
Buu destroyed Earth = All Marvel and DC heroes owned. Though, Naruto characters can cheap shot Goku and might win.
Mr_BillGates
You probably should actually look at the first 2 pages as well as generally reading up on not only Marvel and DC (Especially Marvel) but Dragonball and Naruto before making massively incorrect statements like that.
These are just the Marvel ones , off the top of my head:
-Professor X. Mind control and makes him suicide. Any ultra-powerful telepath actually.
-Thanos with infinity gauntlet and at his highest power.
-Galactus
-Eterenity
-Sentry
-Death
-Odin
Jankarcop
Thanos does not require the Infinity Gauntlet to win this.
EDIT: Also omnipotents like Eternity and Galactus are overkill in this.
All of them solo the DBverse easily.
[QUOTE="rilpas"]TOO MUCH TEXTpre-crisis superman could
hell, Pre-crisis superman used to juggle planetsmoreover, if we use the 'post-crisis superman has a power level of 15,000' logic, then the hulk can also beat Goku.
At his peak, the hulk was able to lift a mountain during secret wars.
using google I found this for mountain weight:
500 meters -> 10^12 kg
1000 meters -> 10^13 kg
2000 meters -> 10^14 kg
5000 meters -> 10^15 kglet's say the hulk lifted a 1000 meter mountainthat's 100.000.000.000.000 KGso now we divide that by 32 (use the link I gave you) and we know that the hulk has the strenght of 312.500.000.000 mennow we take that number and multiply by a power level of 5 (remember the first human raditz met?) and we now we know that the Hulk has a power level of:1.562.500.000.000
and according to the dragon ball wiki the highest power level ever registered was done by Gogeta in super sayian, with a power of 2.500.000.000
so the hulk wins
fr3ddiemercury
Holy sh!t.....no offense but you have WAY too much time on your hands bro.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment