Can we have a Gameplay King? and name it MGS4?

Oh, Mount & Blade: Warband is another one.

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

Like I said, to each their own. I gamed with Mario on the original NES. Then the graphics and characters were expanded with the SNES, okay now Mario has all these friends . Then the 64 and Mario 64, now exploration in 3d.

Now I'm an adult and childhood games like Mario are cute for people's kids. I figure they haven't had 15 years of Mario since childhood and this is probably their first Mario experience, okay fine. But seeing adults rave about Mario, now on spheres, is just shocking.

To me, it's one of those things along with American Idol that I just can't explain. If I'm still shooting it out with Nathan Drake and Sully in 20 years, please shoot me.

KristoffBrujah

Wait what? American Idol and Mario? Is this some sort of attack on popular things, because a correlation between those two is far beyond me otherwise. :? :lol:

Being an adult makes no difference. I'm 24 and I'm still playing Sonic and Mario. Granted one fell off the face of the earth, while one continued to be successful, but still, in no way have these games not changed. Even from last gen to now, you can't say playing Sonic Adventure is the same as Colors, or that Sunshine is the same as Galaxy 2. The gameplay is totally different; it's not some shallow cosmetic alteration. If the games are fun, why does it make a difference if the franchise is old?

This is key to me. You're still playing Sonic despite the fact that the series has essentially died from a creative standpoint. I played Sonic on Genesis and it's one of my favorite games of all time. But again, this is pain tolerance difference between us, I guess.

I can definitely see how you can still play Mario if you can stomach any Sonic in the last 10 years.

Well the thing is I didn't like any of the Sonic games post Sonic 3 & Knuckles until Colors. Adventure 1 and 2 I could stand at the time of release, but they're filled with bugs, and all the other games, on console or handheld, are not worth mentioning. My point was, age of the player or franchise, should never be a factor if the game is fun, and two (referring to Sonic and Mario, specifically) is that these games have changed greatly.

I don't know.. maybe people are refusing to change or test the waters with another genre or something I wonder.

But the Wii has sold loads, to non-gamers too and is opened up to new gamers alike and fresh to Mario this generation.
Without a doubt, people will back it up in the millionsand call innovative, original, groundbreaking etc.

In the end, Nintendo laughs the most since they are raking it in!

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

sandbox3d

To be fair to Snake, I don't know a single person who picked him up 20 years ago. Most picked him up on the PS1 in 98. He has a definite storyline that I keep playing to find its resolution.

Mario is 20 years old to me, the year I picked up my NES. He has no story to tell and I can't fathom picking it up again to rescue Princess Peach... again... from Bowser or whoever... again.

So the game many of us criticize for being too much of a movie is now the gameplay king? Hmmm

Everyone is waaay defensive over SMG2...

The game was made not to even compete with bigger titles and it can't.
Its just a fun platforming game.

And if your not enjoying LBP2 lets say for example, a 4 player mode online and you play many different levels created by the users themselves..
Then how can you be a platforming fan, or like things that are cute.. and not like Little Big Planet.
Theres so much imagination involved. I can relate aspects of Mario games to little big planet.

As someone said, each to their own. But for long term gamers like me.. I play everything and I am not 'wow'd as much as you are from SMG2.
There are more 'industry game changers' out there.

For the record, Mario 64 > SMG2.. In my opinion.

Not just kids like mario, handful of adults do too.. Call it Nostalgia if you will.
Am still waiting for the ultimate mario game rather than a money making game, maybe on the wii2.

g0ddyX

So the game was not meant to compete with "bigger titles" yet it outsold plenty of them and more importantly outscored ALL OF THEM this gen. Thats pretty rough. Beat down the competition without trying, damn. :o

I appreciate LBP for what it does, but it is simply a sub-par platformer. Not just below Mario, but below many many other platformers. Even Super Meat boy, an indie title slaps LBP around when it comes to platforming. The platforming mechanics in LBP dont even hold up against SMB3 for crying out loud.

I've been gaming for over 25 years so dont give me this "long term gamer" crap.

If you want to call nostalgia then call it on yourself for finding SM64 to be better than SMG2.

And you will never find the ultimate Mario game with those closed eyes of yours. If you were really looking, you would see it is already here.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

KristoffBrujah

To be fair to Snake, I don't know a single person who picked him up 20 years ago. Most picked him up on the PS1 in 98. He has a definite storyline that I keep playing to find its resolution.

Mario is 20 years old to me, the year I picked up my NES. He has no story to tell and I can't fathom picking it up again to rescue Princess Peach... again... from Bowser or whoever... again.

It is possible some people picked up Snake back on the 8bit NES days. Not sure how many followed his entire career across that many generations, but ya never know :P

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

sandbox3d

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

KristoffBrujah

To be fair to Snake, I don't know a single person who picked him up 20 years ago. Most picked him up on the PS1 in 98. He has a definite storyline that I keep playing to find its resolution.

Mario is 20 years old to me, the year I picked up my NES. He has no story to tell and I can't fathom picking it up again to rescue Princess Peach... again... from Bowser or whoever... again.

Is it my fault that MG didnt hit its stride till MGS1? Is it my fault that Mario was a smash hit right out the gate? Nope.

And if you really fault Mario for its story then you are missing the point, especially when in a thread regarding gameplay.

I dont even remember the story in the SMG games, but guess what? I was too damn busy having a blast with the actual game to even care. Do you want Mario to have some epic story? lol

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

AdobeArtist

To be fair to Snake, I don't know a single person who picked him up 20 years ago. Most picked him up on the PS1 in 98. He has a definite storyline that I keep playing to find its resolution.

Mario is 20 years old to me, the year I picked up my NES. He has no story to tell and I can't fathom picking it up again to rescue Princess Peach... again... from Bowser or whoever... again.

It is possible some people picked up Snake back on the 8bit NES days. Not sure how many followed his entire career across that many generations, but ya never know :P

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

g0ddyX

Main series Mario.

• SMB
• SMB2
• SMB3
• SMW
• YI if you want to count it.
• SM64
• SMS
• SMG
• SMG2

Main series Metal Gear.

• Metal Gear
• Metal Gear 2: SS
• Snakes Revenge if you want to count it.
• MGS
• MGS2
• MGS3
• MGS PO
• MGS4
• MGS PW

Not such a huge difference if you ask me. Plus Mario saw just as big, if not bigger changes from game to game than Metal Gear.

And yes, I still play SMB3, SMW and YI all the time. Just as I still play MG2, MGS, MGS2 and MGS3 all the time.

And again, what the hell does the MGS saga story have to do with a gameplay discussion?

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So goddy, you like MGS4. Is that because of nostalgia? We've seen plenty of Metal Gear over the past 20 years. How is it different from Mario in that sense?

sandbox3d

To be fair to Snake, I don't know a single person who picked him up 20 years ago. Most picked him up on the PS1 in 98. He has a definite storyline that I keep playing to find its resolution.

Mario is 20 years old to me, the year I picked up my NES. He has no story to tell and I can't fathom picking it up again to rescue Princess Peach... again... from Bowser or whoever... again.

Is it my fault that MG didnt hit its stride till MGS1? Is it my fault that Mario was a smash hit right out the gate? Nope.

And if you really fault Mario for its story then you are missing the point, especially when in a thread regarding gameplay.

I dont even remember the story in the SMG games, but guess what? I was too damn busy having a blast with the actual game to even care. Do you want Mario to have some epic story? lol

No, you're asking why we keep playing MGS despite being around for so long and not Mario. I said the reason is because it has a continuous progression through the story of one guy's life and Mario does not. Not only that, but the franchise most of us grew up with has only been around since 98, not freaking 85.

As far as gameplay is concerned, whether Mario innovates or not, it will sell and get rated highly. New Super Mario was a complete rehash of old Super Mario, and not only did it sell 10+ million, it got rated 8.5 at Gamespot. They can literally repackage old Marios and sell them at new prices+ a few new features and make massive profits.

Justin Bieber is also a smash hit. He has won awards and even been nominated for Grammy awards, but he and Mario share one thing in common: sales despite quality or innovation.

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

Everyone is waaay defensive over SMG2...

The game was made not to even compete with bigger titles and it can't.
Its just a fun platforming game.

And if your not enjoying LBP2 lets say for example, a 4 player mode online and you play many different levels created by the users themselves..
Then how can you be a platforming fan, or like things that are cute.. and not like Little Big Planet.
Theres so much imagination involved. I can relate aspects of Mario games to little big planet.

As someone said, each to their own. But for long term gamers like me.. I play everything and I am not 'wow'd as much as you are from SMG2.
There are more 'industry game changers' out there.

For the record, Mario 64 > SMG2.. In my opinion.

Not just kids like mario, handful of adults do too.. Call it Nostalgia if you will.
Am still waiting for the ultimate mario game rather than a money making game, maybe on the wii2.

sandbox3d

So the game was not meant to compete with "bigger titles" yet it outsold plenty of them and more importantly outscored ALL OF THEM this gen. Thats pretty rough. Beat down the competition without trying, damn. :o

I appreciate LBP for what it does, but it is simply a sub-par platformer. Not just below Mario, but below many many other platformers. Even Super Meat boy, an indie title slaps LBP around when it comes to platforming. The platforming mechanics in LBP dont even hold up against SMB3 for crying out loud.

I've been gaming for over 25 years so dont give me this "long term gamer" crap.

If you want to call nostalgia then call it on yourself for finding SM64 to be better than SMG2.

And you will never find the ultimate Mario game with those closed eyes of yours. If you were really looking, you would see it is already here.

Kristoffbrujah and g0ddyX

Two System Wars that love getting owned together. So sweet. :oops:

Seriously, at least try to come up with an actual rebuttal rather than dodging facts, writing off majority opinions and trying to change the grounds of discussion.

All I see right now is a bunch of flip flopping around.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

Everyone is waaay defensive over SMG2...

The game was made not to even compete with bigger titles and it can't.
Its just a fun platforming game.

And if your not enjoying LBP2 lets say for example, a 4 player mode online and you play many different levels created by the users themselves..
Then how can you be a platforming fan, or like things that are cute.. and not like Little Big Planet.
Theres so much imagination involved. I can relate aspects of Mario games to little big planet.

As someone said, each to their own. But for long term gamers like me.. I play everything and I am not 'wow'd as much as you are from SMG2.
There are more 'industry game changers' out there.

For the record, Mario 64 > SMG2.. In my opinion.

Not just kids like mario, handful of adults do too.. Call it Nostalgia if you will.
Am still waiting for the ultimate mario game rather than a money making game, maybe on the wii2.

g0ddyX

So the game was not meant to compete with "bigger titles" yet it outsold plenty of them and more importantly outscored ALL OF THEM this gen. Thats pretty rough. Beat down the competition without trying, damn. :o

I appreciate LBP for what it does, but it is simply a sub-par platformer. Not just below Mario, but below many many other platformers. Even Super Meat boy, an indie title slaps LBP around when it comes to platforming. The platforming mechanics in LBP dont even hold up against SMB3 for crying out loud.

I've been gaming for over 25 years so dont give me this "long term gamer" crap.

If you want to call nostalgia then call it on yourself for finding SM64 to be better than SMG2.

And you will never find the ultimate Mario game with those closed eyes of yours. If you were really looking, you would see it is already here.

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

Why is this so hard for nintendo haters to grasp?...Oh right.

Bayonetta!

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So the game was not meant to compete with "bigger titles" yet it outsold plenty of them and more importantly outscored ALL OF THEM this gen. Thats pretty rough. Beat down the competition without trying, damn. :o

I appreciate LBP for what it does, but it is simply a sub-par platformer. Not just below Mario, but below many many other platformers. Even Super Meat boy, an indie title slaps LBP around when it comes to platforming. The platforming mechanics in LBP dont even hold up against SMB3 for crying out loud.

I've been gaming for over 25 years so dont give me this "long term gamer" crap.

If you want to call nostalgia then call it on yourself for finding SM64 to be better than SMG2.

And you will never find the ultimate Mario game with those closed eyes of yours. If you were really looking, you would see it is already here.

Shinobishyguy

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

According to Gamespot, GTA4 is tied for the greatest game of all time. It has one of the highest Metacritic ratings of all time at 98, which is actually a point better than SMG and SMG2.

Actually, it's perfect. It's the perfect example of a game that gets loads of critical acclaim, huge sales, and yet lacks innovative gameplay or originality. Its fans will claim it's great and has the best gameplay, just like SMG fans. For the same reasons as SMG no less: sales and ratings. Priceless.

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

So the game was not meant to compete with "bigger titles" yet it outsold plenty of them and more importantly outscored ALL OF THEM this gen. Thats pretty rough. Beat down the competition without trying, damn. :o

I appreciate LBP for what it does, but it is simply a sub-par platformer. Not just below Mario, but below many many other platformers. Even Super Meat boy, an indie title slaps LBP around when it comes to platforming. The platforming mechanics in LBP dont even hold up against SMB3 for crying out loud.

I've been gaming for over 25 years so dont give me this "long term gamer" crap.

If you want to call nostalgia then call it on yourself for finding SM64 to be better than SMG2.

And you will never find the ultimate Mario game with those closed eyes of yours. If you were really looking, you would see it is already here.

Shinobishyguy

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

Why is this so hard for nintendo haters to grasp?...Oh right.

Yeah hes one of those "Wii standards" dudes. :lol:

Seriously, all he has to do is forget the scores and go read the reviews. Just about every review makes mention that SMG2 perfects the genre, but usually in an even more exaggerated manner lol.

This thread has become hilarious!

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

Quality > Quantity.

Nintendo sells like pancakes to markets where people will buy regardless of seeing any other games.
As with most wii fans, sales is the only strong point they usually use and sometimes high metacritic scores.

Have you even played LBP? The mechanics are fine, so fine, that you can create your own levels lol.

I dont thinkSMG2 was aimed to outscore other games from different consoles or PC's.
It is just great for the wii.

KristoffBrujah

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

According to Gamespot, GTA4 is tied for the greatest game of all time. It has one of the highest Metacritic ratings of all time at 98, which is actually a point better than SMG and SMG2.

Actually, it's perfect. It's the perfect example of a game that gets loads of critical acclaim, huge sales, and yet lacks innovative gameplay or originality. Its fans will claim it's great and has the best gameplay, just like SMG fans. For the same reasons as SMG no less: sales and ratings. Priceless.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

Quality > Quantity.

Nintendo sells like pancakes to markets where people will buy regardless of seeing any other games.
As with most wii fans, sales is the only strong point they usually use and sometimes high metacritic scores.

Have you even played LBP? The mechanics are fine, so fine, that you can create your own levels lol.

I dont thinkSMG2 was aimed to outscore other games from different consoles or PC's.
It is just great for the wii.

KristoffBrujah

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

According to Gamespot, GTA4 is tied for the greatest game of all time. It has one of the highest Metacritic ratings of all time at 98, which is actually a point better than SMG and SMG2.

Actually, it's perfect. It's the perfect example of a game that gets loads of critical acclaim, huge sales, and yet lacks innovative gameplay or originality. Its fans will claim it's great and has the best gameplay, just like SMG fans. For the same reasons as SMG no less: sales and ratings. Priceless.

Annnd GTAIV basically set a standard for its genre as well. :)

But for you to sit here and act like the SMG games lack innovative gameplay or originality is outright hilarious.

Here's a fun activity for you. Most of SW hates Nintendo. Make a thread regarding your opinions on SMG2 and see how many people agree with you. Better yet you should just play the games and realize how wrong you are, but we know that wont happen. So just do the former. It should be interesting.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="g0ddyX"]

Quality > Quantity.

Nintendo sells like pancakes to markets where people will buy regardless of seeing any other games.
As with most wii fans, sales is the only strong point they usually use and sometimes high metacritic scores.

Have you even played LBP? The mechanics are fine, so fine, that you can create your own levels lol.

I dont thinkSMG2 was aimed to outscore other games from different consoles or PC's.
It is just great for the wii.

sandbox3d

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

Why is this so hard for nintendo haters to grasp?...Oh right.

Yeah hes one of those "Wii standards" dudes. :lol:

Seriously, all he has to do is forget the scores and go read the reviews. Just about every review makes mention that SMG2 perfects the genre, but usually in an even more exaggerated manner lol.

This thread has become hilarious!

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]Stopped reading at that.

SMG2 sets the standards for the entire genre. The Scores back this up.

Shinobishyguy

According to Gamespot, GTA4 is tied for the greatest game of all time. It has one of the highest Metacritic ratings of all time at 98, which is actually a point better than SMG and SMG2.

Actually, it's perfect. It's the perfect example of a game that gets loads of critical acclaim, huge sales, and yet lacks innovative gameplay or originality. Its fans will claim it's great and has the best gameplay, just like SMG fans. For the same reasons as SMG no less: sales and ratings. Priceless.

I found it curious that CJ could actually level up in a sense, which is another dimension of gameplay, and that feature is missing from GTA4, yet GTA4 score better. Gaming websites and sales favor series like Mario, Halo, and GTA, and none of them have been innovative in the gameplay department in a long time.

IMO San Andreas set the standard for gameplay and GTA4 was a step back, yet it got higher rated. Go figure.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="KristoffBrujah"]

According to Gamespot, GTA4 is tied for the greatest game of all time. It has one of the highest Metacritic ratings of all time at 98, which is actually a point better than SMG and SMG2.

Actually, it's perfect. It's the perfect example of a game that gets loads of critical acclaim, huge sales, and yet lacks innovative gameplay or originality. Its fans will claim it's great and has the best gameplay, just like SMG fans. For the same reasons as SMG no less: sales and ratings. Priceless.

KristoffBrujah

I found it curious that CJ could actually level up in a sense, which is another dimension of gameplay, and that feature is missing from GTA4, yet GTA4 score better. Gaming websites and sales favor series like Mario, Halo, and GTA, and none of them have been innovative in the gameplay department in a long time.

IMO San Andreas set the standard for gameplay and GTA4 was a step back, yet it got higher rated. Go figure.

Yup, GTA4 was a step back in many ways and a step forward in many others. As far as technical achievement it was a massive step forward. Whether you like it more than the previous titles is up to you.

I feel MGS4 is weaker than both MGS2 and MGS3 by a huge margin, but hey GS gave it a 10 and thats the breaks.

But unlike those two games there is a mass consensus amongst both gamers and critics that SMG2 is not only the best Mario to date, but also the best 3d platformer ever created. Even most Ninty haters on SW will not argue this.

Plus there are enough different ideas scattered throughout each stage of SMG2 that Ninty could have made multiple games. But no, they come up with a great idea, use it once or twice and move on to the next. That is why it is so lol worthy for you to discredit SMG2 on grounds of originality, or innovation lol. The entire game is basically one fresh, fun new idea after another.

lol halo reach and crysis2 in a "gameplay king" poll?

Worst poll I've ever seen in my life.

Definately NOT MGS4. Bored the crap out of me. Uncharted 2 perhaps. Arkham Asylum perhaps.

We need a sound king and replay value king as well.:P

lol halo reach and crysis2 in a "gameplay king" poll?

Jankarcop

Problem?

Crysis, AC2 and Just Cause 2.

Top 3 games this gen gameplay-wise:

1) SMG2

2) SMG

3) MGS4

Its THAT simple :)

[QUOTE="caseypayne69"]

Just curious with all the graphics talk, we forget gameplay. And I know this would be harder to debate but still would be nice.

My votes for MGS4.

MGS4 did not have gameplay for me

You either crawled or shooted in some linear coriddors, was like doom with crawling

Halo Reach >>> Crysis 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS4 for me

None of those, a gameplay king is a game that makes you come back for more even after spending possibly 100s if not 1000s of hours into that single game.

For me it would be between Guild Wars, Diablo II, Demon's Souls or Monster Hunter 2nd G.

Demons Souls has the best gameplay, MGS4 is a joke

gameplay king goes to starcraft 2 sorry. biggest e sport game in history is enough proof of that