Can you sheep explain something?

[QUOTE="helium_flash"]

You make it seem like the Wii's gameplay makes up for it's lack of good graphics.

NuclearKidX

Beacause it does in most cases.

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.Puppa_Shogun

but having crap gameplay and crap graphics is worse

Which fancy controls don't make up for.

whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? ganon42

Nothing.

[QUOTE="Puppa_Shogun"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.tomarlyn

but having crap gameplay and crap graphics is worse

Which fancy controls don't make up for.

I consider control a part of gameplay, so if the gameplay is crappy, then the controls are either part of the reason why it's crappy or won't help anyway.

[QUOTE="Echo13791"]also, i own a Wii, so thats how I built this opinion. I must say though, the main reason i bought it, if not the only one was for SSBBGundamGuy0

To each there own... but I think your not giving some good games a fair chance.

I could say that about the Wii fanboys claiming PS3/360 are just graphics and not giving the games a chance.

[QUOTE="Puppa_Shogun"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.tomarlyn

but having crap gameplay and crap graphics is worse

Which fancy controls don't make up for.

Neither do good graphics. Crap gameplay and good graphics is a bad game, good gameplay and bad graphics is a good game.

whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? ganon42

Who said anything was wrong with that? We're just saying a game with mediocre gamepaly and massive hd high poly graphics is still a mediocre game.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Puppa_Shogun"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.DaAznSaN

but having crap gameplay and crap graphics is worse

Which fancy controls don't make up for.

I consider control a part of gameplay, so if the gameplay is crappy, then the controls are either part of the reason why it's crappy or won't help anyway.

Well fair enough, but what you do with your hands is the interaction with the game not gameplay proper. The controls for Wii Sports Tennis and Excite Truck are obviously more active/realistic, but as games they're not as good as Mario Tennis or Burnout.

[QUOTE="xDonRobx"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.snorlaxmaster

*Looks at Xbox 360 and PS3 games*

"OMG TEH N3 AND GENJILOOK SO MUCH BETTER DEN TEH LOZ TP, TSHBO!!!`111!11"

Hey, I was just giving an example to what he said.

Theres other games that I think suck, like GeOW, but if I would've used that, everybody woulda been like "go jump off a cliff sheep" (even though at the time, I had in my sig that I was going back to being a cow)

[QUOTE="helium_flash"][QUOTE="RahnAetas"]Justlook atWiiSports. Horrible graphics, but the gameplay is why it's received so well. It'san *experience*that cannot be replicated on any other controller or other system. Yes, you can do all the same thing with analog sticks and buttons, but it's not the same experience. Same thing with RE4 for the Wii, it's an experience that cannot be replicated on another console despite the same content on other systems.Eponique

It doesn't. But c'mon, after playing Wii Tennis, I don't think I can go back to pressing a button to swing a racket.

Agreed.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Puppa_Shogun"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]Having crap Gameplay and good graphics is disasterous.Eponique

but having crap gameplay and crap graphics is worse

Which fancy controls don't make up for.

Neither do good graphics. Crap gameplay and good graphics is a bad game, good gameplay and bad graphics is a good game.

I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

[QUOTE="NuclearKidX"][QUOTE="helium_flash"]

You make it seem like the Wii's gameplay makes up for it's lack of good graphics.

wii4me

Beacause it does in most cases.

Thats a horrible comparison and im surprised nobody has started to own you.

I won't even say anything else..jus think about how dumb that is.

whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? ganon42

I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

tomarlyn

Of course now you're running off the assumption that controls on wii can never work, a horribly wrong statement. And you're also running off the assumption that controls for some reason became their own section... controls ARE gameplay.

[QUOTE="ganon42"]whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? TheFlush

Exactly, double standards. The Cube and N64 were state of the art at their time and pushed raw power. They also had controllers that Wii fanboys now claim make for a crap game, especially if dev's go so low as to make the most of current high-tech hardware.

[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="ganon42"]whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? tomarlyn

Exactly, double standards. The Cube and N64 were state of the art at their time and pushed raw power, they also had controllers that Wii fanboys now claim make for a crap game especially if dev's go so low as to make the most of current high-tech hardware.

Do you enjoy ignoring everything sheep are saying? Becuase I dont' remember any statements like that through out this entire thread. You're putting words into our mouths, and it ain't the first time this thread or this forum...We never said they produced crap games, we just said wii has a lot of potential to improve many genres of games.

You know, improve, what generations are supposed to do...

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

kittykatz5k

Of course now you're running off the assumption that controls on wii can never work, a horribly wrong statement. And you're also running off the assumption that controls for some reason became their own section... controls ARE gameplay.

Controls are not gameplay, the worst game in the world can still have a perfect control scheme. Is Bioshock going to be drastically different on the PC compared to 360? No the gameplay content will be the same. I don't think the Wii controls will never work, they do, I just don't think they're all that.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="ganon42"]whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? kittykatz5k

Exactly, double standards. The Cube and N64 were state of the art at their time and pushed raw power, they also had controllers that Wii fanboys now claim make for a crap game especially if dev's go so low as to make the most of current high-tech hardware.

Do you enjoy ignoring everything sheep are saying? Becuase I dont' remember any statements like that through out this entire thread. You're putting words into our mouths, and it ain't the first time this thread or this forum...We never said they produced crap games, we just said wii has a lot of potential to improve many genres of games.

You know, improve, what generations are supposed to do...

No, its just a stereotype from what I've experienced in the Wii forum for over a year.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]

[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="ganon42"]whats wrong with amazing graphics and good gameplay? Last time i checked, ps3/360's controle scheme wasnt crap? kittykatz5k

Exactly, double standards. The Cube and N64 were state of the art at their time and pushed raw power, they also had controllers that Wii fanboys now claim make for a crap game especially if dev's go so low as to make the most of current high-tech hardware.

Do you enjoy ignoring everything sheep are saying? Becuase I dont' remember any statements like that through out this entire thread. You're putting words into our mouths, and it ain't the first time this thread or this forum...We never said they produced crap games, we just said wii has a lot of potential to improve many genres of games.

You know, improve, what generations are supposed to do...

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

tomarlyn

Of course now you're running off the assumption that controls on wii can never work, a horribly wrong statement. And you're also running off the assumption that controls for some reason became their own section... controls ARE gameplay.

Controls are not gameplay, the worst game in the world can still have a perfect control scheme. Is Bioshock going to be drastically different on the PC compared to 360? No the gameplay content will be the same. I don't think the Wii controls will never work, they do, I just don't think they're all that.

Once again, you're entire debate is run off assumptions, quite a pattern from you... You assumed I ment that controls are the only thing that effects gmaeplay, all I ment was it was a significant role. If bioshock didn't tighten their controls well enough, I'd say yes, it would be a whole lot crummier to play.

Which brings me to my next point on your own assumptions twords everything, you assume sheep ment controls are now a wii only subject. No, wii is not the defenition of controls, it's just an idea that can potentially imrpove quite a good deal of controls, and has in several games.

[QUOTE="killerkop"]

Ok, heres my example. You play Guitar Hero, but instead of playing it with the guitar controller you play it with a dual shock or whatever. The game just doesn't quite have the same appeal. Once you play with the guitar, you understand whats so special about the game, its not what your doing, its how playing the game makes you feel. And like I read in a developer interview they said they tried to take the interaction of the game out of the tv and put it more in the players hands.

Same idea with Wii Sports. Any game that is done correctly has potential to be better than a traditional control scheme. But they have to do it right.

TheFlush

I know what your saying. I don't play Wii Sports everyday. But when I get my friends together, typically the Wii is on and we are playing Wii Sports or Mario Party. As of right now, there just aren't that many single player experiences on the Wii. If your friends come over you can have a blast, but by yourself, theres not a lot to do.

Although I do tend to pick up a game of bowling here and there. I like the Wii alot, I'm just waiting for it to hit its prime, lol no pun intended.

Hibbity wha? Many parts of the N64 and GCN controller remain on the Wii controller. Analog stick, Z-button trigger, multi-sized buttons, and... well, D-pad and Start button and whatnot. Sheep aren't saying previous control methods are bad, just that they can still be improved.DaAznSaN

[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="killerkop"]

Ok, heres my example. You play Guitar Hero, but instead of playing it with the guitar controller you play it with a dual shock or whatever. The game just doesn't quite have the same appeal. Once you play with the guitar, you understand whats so special about the game, its not what your doing, its how playing the game makes you feel. And like I read in a developer interview they said they tried to take the interaction of the game out of the tv and put it more in the players hands.

Same idea with Wii Sports. Any game that is done correctly has potential to be better than a traditional control scheme. But they have to do it right.

killerkop

I know what your saying. I don't play Wii Sports everyday. But when I get my friends together, typically the Wii is on and we are playing Wii Sports or Mario Party. As of right now, there just aren't that many single player experiences on the Wii. If your friends come over you can have a blast, but by yourself, theres not a lot to do.

Although I do tend to pick up a game of bowling here and there. I like the Wii alot, I'm just waiting for it to hit its prime, lol no pun intended.

You should pick up Trauma Center and Paper Mario, good single-player experiences.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

kittykatz5k

Of course now you're running off the assumption that controls on wii can never work, a horribly wrong statement. And you're also running off the assumption that controls for some reason became their own section... controls ARE gameplay.

Controls are not gameplay, the worst game in the world can still have a perfect control scheme. Is Bioshock going to be drastically different on the PC compared to 360? No the gameplay content will be the same. I don't think the Wii controls will never work, they do, I just don't think they're all that.

Once again, you're entire debate is run off assumptions, quite a pattern from you... You assumed I ment that controls are the only thing that effects gmaeplay, all I ment was it was a significant role. If bioshock didn't tighten their controls well enough, I'd say yes, it would be a whole lot crummier to play.

Which brings me to my next point on your own assumptions twords everything, you assume sheep ment controls are now a wii only subject. No, wii is not the defenition of controls, it's just an idea that can potentially imrpove quite a good deal of controls, and has in several games.

I'm assuming things when your going around in circles? You just said controls ARE gameplay which I'd never agree with in a million years. Its just the way you interact with the game.

Play TP and RE4 on the GC, and then play them on the Wii. You'll notice a (good) change.MoldOnHold

I think we all agree that the Wii should have had better graphics. Nintendo got too greedy with the money. They are already make a huge killing on the DS, and according to IGN they make over $50 on every Wii sold to retailers. Some of the games could have looked soo nice :(helium_flash

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Controls are not gameplay, the worst game in the world can still have a perfect control scheme. Is Bioshock going to be drastically different on the PC compared to 360? No the gameplay content will be the same. I don't think the Wii controls will never work, they do, I just don't think they're all that.

tomarlyn

Once again, you're entire debate is run off assumptions, quite a pattern from you... You assumed I ment that controls are the only thing that effects gmaeplay, all I ment was it was a significant role. If bioshock didn't tighten their controls well enough, I'd say yes, it would be a whole lot crummier to play.

Which brings me to my next point on your own assumptions twords everything, you assume sheep ment controls are now a wii only subject. No, wii is not the defenition of controls, it's just an idea that can potentially imrpove quite a good deal of controls, and has in several games.

I'm assuming things when your going around in circles? You just said controls ARE gameplay which I'd never agree with in a million years. Its just the way you interact with the game.

The way you play a game is gameplay. I'd re-examine what I said if I were you. I said controlsare gameplay, not that gameplay is controls.

[QUOTE="killerkop"][QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="killerkop"]

Ok, heres my example. You play Guitar Hero, but instead of playing it with the guitar controller you play it with a dual shock or whatever. The game just doesn't quite have the same appeal. Once you play with the guitar, you understand whats so special about the game, its not what your doing, its how playing the game makes you feel. And like I read in a developer interview they said they tried to take the interaction of the game out of the tv and put it more in the players hands.

Same idea with Wii Sports. Any game that is done correctly has potential to be better than a traditional control scheme. But they have to do it right.

Eponique

I know what your saying. I don't play Wii Sports everyday. But when I get my friends together, typically the Wii is on and we are playing Wii Sports or Mario Party. As of right now, there just aren't that many single player experiences on the Wii. If your friends come over you can have a blast, but by yourself, theres not a lot to do.

Although I do tend to pick up a game of bowling here and there. I like the Wii alot, I'm just waiting for it to hit its prime, lol no pun intended.

You should pick up Trauma Center and Paper Mario, good single-player experiences.

[QUOTE="MoldOnHold"]Play TP and RE4 on the GC, and then play them on the Wii. You'll notice a (good) change.TheFlush

Accept here, gamespot word is law, and gamespot says the better version of RE4 and twilight princess are, in fact, the wii versions.

[QUOTE="MoldOnHold"]Play TP and RE4 on the GC, and then play them on the Wii. You'll notice a (good) change.TheFlush

[QUOTE="killerkop"][QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="killerkop"]

Ok, heres my example. You play Guitar Hero, but instead of playing it with the guitar controller you play it with a dual shock or whatever. The game just doesn't quite have the same appeal. Once you play with the guitar, you understand whats so special about the game, its not what your doing, its how playing the game makes you feel. And like I read in a developer interview they said they tried to take the interaction of the game out of the tv and put it more in the players hands.

Same idea with Wii Sports. Any game that is done correctly has potential to be better than a traditional control scheme. But they have to do it right.

Eponique

I know what your saying. I don't play Wii Sports everyday. But when I get my friends together, typically the Wii is on and we are playing Wii Sports or Mario Party. As of right now, there just aren't that many single player experiences on the Wii. If your friends come over you can have a blast, but by yourself, theres not a lot to do.

Although I do tend to pick up a game of bowling here and there. I like the Wii alot, I'm just waiting for it to hit its prime, lol no pun intended.

You should pick up Trauma Center and Paper Mario, good single-player experiences.

[QUOTE="MoldOnHold"]Play TP and RE4 on the GC, and then play them on the Wii. You'll notice a (good) change.TheFlush

I whent straight back to my Cube save after a few chapters. There's nothing wrong with the new controls its still the same great game (although they can feel clumsy at times). But they're just different not better IMO at all, not worth starting all over again.

[QUOTE="MoldOnHold"]Play TP and RE4 on the GC, and then play them on the Wii. You'll notice a (good) change.TheFlush

This is purely subjuctive, but if you could pick one of the two versions, which one would you pick? I'd take the Wii.

The way you play a game is gameplay. I'd re-examine what I said if I were you. I said controlsare gameplay, not that gameplay is controls.

kittykatz5k

Your making as much sense as a bag of rocks so I wouldn't question my reading comprehension thankyou. My opinion stands.

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]I'd rather play a good game with bad graphics and controls, than a bad game with bad graphics and gestures.

Good gameplay>good graphics>>>>> Good Controls = Win (thats only if you consider Wii controls good though).

This is fun :D

tomarlyn

Of course now you're running off the assumption that controls on wii can never work, a horribly wrong statement. And you're also running off the assumption that controls for some reason became their own section... controls ARE gameplay.

Controls are not gameplay, the worst game in the world can still have a perfect control scheme. Is Bioshock going to be drastically different on the PC compared to 360? No the gameplay content will be the same. I don't think the Wii controls will never work, they do, I just don't think they're all that.

Once again, you're entire debate is run off assumptions, quite a pattern from you... You assumed I ment that controls are the only thing that effects gmaeplay, all I ment was it was a significant role. If bioshock didn't tighten their controls well enough, I'd say yes, it would be a whole lot crummier to play.

Which brings me to my next point on your own assumptions twords everything, you assume sheep ment controls are now a wii only subject. No, wii is not the defenition of controls, it's just an idea that can potentially imrpove quite a good deal of controls, and has in several games.

I'massuming things when your going around in circles? You just said controls ARE gameplay which I'd never agree with in a million years. Its just the way you interact with the game.

I think we all agree that the Wii should have had better graphics. Nintendo got too greedy with the money. They are already make a huge killing on the DS, and according to IGN they make over $50 on every Wii sold to retailers. Some of the games could have looked soo nice :(helium_flash

Besides Super Mario Galaxy and maybe 2 other games, Wii games now don't look as good as they could.

As for gameplay, it opens up possibilities for more immersive control and with motion control comes new game ideas/utilizations.

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

The way you play a game is gameplay. I'd re-examine what I said if I were you. I said controlsare gameplay, not that gameplay is controls.

tomarlyn

Your making as much sense as a bag of rocks so I wouldn't question my reading comprehension thankyou. My opinion stands.

So everything I say is irrelivant because you either refuse to understnad what I say or fail to understand what I say, both I would be rather insulted by...

You fail to understnad the difference between your assumption and my comment. I said controls are gameplay, which they are, they are a very big peice of gameplay, you assume I mean gameplay is controls, as in all of gameplay is just a part of controls.

Is that clear enough or do I need to draw a pretty picture in paint.

The why doesn't controls have it's separate category in reviews? Oh yeah thats right. Controls directly correlate with gameplay! It's a vital part of it. Without solid controls the gameplay is affected greatly.Shinobishyguy

You think I don't know that?? It doesn't matter how great the controls are if its a bad game to begin with. Thats my only point. Farcry has better controls than Red Steel, which is the better FPS?

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

The why doesn't controls have it's separate category in reviews? Oh yeah thats right. Controls directly correlate with gameplay! It's a vital part of it. Without solid controls the gameplay is affected greatly.tomarlyn

You think I don't know that?? It doesn't matter how great the controls are if its a bad game to begin with. Thats my only point. Farcry has better controls than Red Steel, which is the better FPS?

Since when does far cry wiihave better controls? It's controls were equally poor...

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

The way you play a game is gameplay. I'd re-examine what I said if I were you. I said controlsare gameplay, not that gameplay is controls.

kittykatz5k

Your making as much sense as a bag of rocks so I wouldn't question my reading comprehension thankyou. My opinion stands.

So everything I say is irrelivant because you either refuse to understnad what I say or fail to understand what I say, both I would be rather insulted by...

You fail to understnad the difference between your assumption and my comment. I said controls are gameplay, which they are, they are a very big peice of gameplay, you assume I mean gameplay is controls, as in all of gameplay is just a part of controls.

You insult me by claiming any heart felt point of view I have is a bad assumption by YOUR bendy reasoning.

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

The why doesn't controls have it's separate category in reviews? Oh yeah thats right. Controls directly correlate with gameplay! It's a vital part of it. Without solid controls the gameplay is affected greatly.kittykatz5k

You think I don't know that?? It doesn't matter how great the controls are if its a bad game to begin with. Thats my only point. Farcry has better controls than Red Steel, which is the better FPS?

Since when does far cry wiihave better controls? It's controls were equally poor...

You obviously haven't tried them both and I said Farcry had better controls not good controls.

I think the Wii remote fails more than it succeeds- however, the key point to remember with that statement is that there are SOME successes with it. Bowling and Golf on Wii Sports is much more fun than traditional controllers....Baseball is a good idea, but a failure as a result of implementation. Tennis and Boxing just made me wish I was pushing buttons since it would be far less aggravating.

I don't think it enhances gameplay most of the time. The worst part is, when it doesn't enhance gameplay, I think more often than not it makes it worse (as opposed to just equal). So no, I don't really like the Wii remote and prefer the traditional gamepad.

You insult me by claiming any heart felt point of view I have is a bad assumption by YOUR bendy reasoning.tomarlyn

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]

The way you play a game is gameplay. I'd re-examine what I said if I were you. I said controlsare gameplay, not that gameplay is controls.

tomarlyn

Your making as much sense as a bag of rocks so I wouldn't question my reading comprehension thankyou. My opinion stands.

So everything I say is irrelivant because you either refuse to understnad what I say or fail to understand what I say, both I would be rather insulted by...

You fail to understnad the difference between your assumption and my comment. I said controls are gameplay, which they are, they are a very big peice of gameplay, you assume I mean gameplay is controls, as in all of gameplay is just a part of controls.

You insult me by claiming any heart felt point of view I have is a bad assumption by YOUR bendy reasoning.

MY bendy reasoning? You're the one with this defined "bendy reasoning". You've taken everything we've said so far and betn it to your will.you've bent and twisted everything we've said until it's the perfect insult against sheep, I'm mearly unbending what you've twisted to begin with.

My offer still stands, do you want me ot paint a pretty picture or do you understand now....

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]You insult me by claiming any heart felt point of view I have is a bad assumption by YOUR bendy reasoning.Jandurin

Earth 2?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]You insult me by claiming any heart felt point of view I have is a bad assumption by YOUR bendy reasoning.tomarlyn

Earth 2?

They like to cancel anything that has promise.

MY bendy reasoning? You're the one with this defined "bendy reasoning". You've taken everything we've said so far and betn it to your will.you've bent and twisted everything we've said until it's the perfect insult against sheep, I'm mearly unbending what you've twisted to begin with.

My offer still stands, do you want me ot paint a pretty picture or do you understand now....

kittykatz5k

No your fine run along. I was only using hardcore Wii fanboy logic against a certain few to make a point that the Wii way is not the righteous or only good way to game.