Console sales goin up and PC sales goin down yet again...

[QUOTE="thesmiter"]

did it occur to either of you that both of you are acting like children? you are both going crazy and launching personal attacks, and all over whether or not crysis made or lost money. you are going insane due to a video game! come on...

AdrianWerner

A random SW troll or CEOs of those companies? the answer is obvious, which makes it even more funny that he demands (not asks, demands!) people here to trust his word over theirs.

On other forums his posts would just be replied with eneless stream of rolleyes smileys, but since this is SW it couldn't end with just that.

Now you are arguing with the arbitrator. Good job. pimperjones

LOL I'm done with this thread. You can find somebody else to argue with. pimperjones

[QUOTE="pimperjones"]LOL I'm done with this thread. You can find somebody else to argue with. AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="pimperjones"]LOL I'm done with this thread. You can find somebody else to argue with. pimperjones

[QUOTE="clone01"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

I'm sure the adds on TV didn't help to sell the game... no, huh? And I beleive 1.5m is NPD sells? dgsag

regardless of marketing, Halo 3 and Gears 2 have sold a **** ton compared to most PC only titles (WOW and the Sims aside). not trying to start a fight, but just saying.

Regardless of marketing, Wii Music, Okami, Boom Blox, have sold a- oh, wait... :|

Gears 2 and Halo 3 are exceptions. The VAST majority of console games NEVER break a million. (About 80-85%)

and the vast majority of PC titles don't break a million, either.

After the disappointing sales of PC-exclusive FPS Crysis, Crytek president Cevat Yerli has said that his company will no longer make titles exclusive to the PC platform. The main reason? Piracy.

"I believe that's the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy," Yerli explained. "It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore."

Sounds to me like they lost money

After the disappointing sales of PC-exclusive FPS Crysis, Crytek president Cevat Yerli has said that his company will no longer make titles exclusive to the PC platform. The main reason? Piracy.

"I believe that's the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy," Yerli explained. "It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore."

Sounds to me like they lost money

jasonheyman

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/899/899976p1.html?RSSwhen2008-08-19_031400&RSSid=899976

US, August 19, 2008 - CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

Hmmm, oh yeah you just got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!

After the disappointing sales of PC-exclusive FPS Crysis, Crytek president Cevat Yerli has said that his company will no longer make titles exclusive to the PC platform. The main reason? Piracy.

"I believe that's the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy," Yerli explained. "It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore."

Sounds to me like they lost money

jasonheyman

Check your dates my man. I've already posted links of them claiming profit, exceeding EA's sales expectations, and EA being happy overally Yerli who is the CEO of Crytek was quoted stating that if it wasn't a profitable then he wouldn't be standing here today would he?

Although they were still upset claiming that there game was heavily pirated (lot of PC devs saying that these days) they and EA both turned a profit according to Crytek's CEO and EA.

If the sale goal set for Crytek by EA was exceeded and EA is happy then its a win win for both Crytek and EA. 

This statement confirms the attitude a lot of game developers discussed earlier this year at the 2008 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, CA. We spoke with Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, and learned that the Unreal Tournament 3 servers received over 40 million attempts at illegitimate access using pirate keys. That number is huge, and the real magnitude comes when you calculate the retail price of $49.99 (59.99 for Collector's Edition).

If those 40 million players actually paid the full price, it would have been nearly $2 billion more in Epic's pocket book. That is more than the quarterly sales results from Nvidia or AMD. To add another perspective, the government lost out as well, because no sales tax is earned on pirated copies.

When you take into account that Crytek saw similar levels of pirated copies, it is easy to see how big of a deal gaming piracy is. Between two games there were billions of dollars of lost sales. The natural instinct is of course to hit the platform(s) where they can actually earn money, which is looking less and less favorable for PC gaming.jasonheyman

And this has what to do with Crytek's CEO and EA claiming that they made profit, that the game exceeded sales expecatations and that EA is happy?

Sure we know piracy is prevelant on PC but you still didn't make a counter point at all to the responses to your previous statement.

And your claim about how they will never make another PC exclusive. What is Crysis Warhead? 

This statement confirms the attitude a lot of game developers discussed earlier this year at the 2008 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, CA. We spoke with Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, and learned that the Unreal Tournament 3 servers received over 40 million attempts at illegitimate access using pirate keys. That number is huge, and the real magnitude comes when you calculate the retail price of $49.99 (59.99 for Collector's Edition).

If those 40 million players actually paid the full price, it would have been nearly $2 billion more in Epic's pocket book. That is more than the quarterly sales results from Nvidia or AMD. To add another perspective, the government lost out as well, because no sales tax is earned on pirated copies.

When you take into account that Crytek saw similar levels of pirated copies, it is easy to see how big of a deal gaming piracy is. Between two games there were billions of dollars of lost sales. The natural instinct is of course to hit the platform(s) where they can actually earn money, which is looking less and less favorable for PC gaming.jasonheyman

This proves that there are 40mil machines out there capable of running UT3 and Crysis...

This shows clearly how a huge amount of cash is flowing from software to hardware industry...

Now imagine if the hardware industry cooperated with software industry....all piracy issues would be solved...thats the future of PC gaming.

And this has what to do with Crytek's CEO and EA claiming that they made profit, that the game exceeded sales expecatations and that EA is happy?

Sure we know piracy is prevelant on PC but you still didn't make a counter point at all to the responses to your previous statement.

And your claim about how they will never make another PC exclusive. What is Crysis Warhead?

Blackbond

Because they made no profit off of any game. They should have made billions more. And Warhead is the last exclusive Crytek is making for PC. Would you like the link?

This proves that there are 40mil machines out there capable of running UT3 and Crysis...

This shows clearly how a huge amount of cash is flowing from software to hardware industry...

Now imagine if the hardware industry cooperated with software industry....all piracy issues would be solved...thats the future of PC gaming.

True_Gamer_

No this shows how many people steal. And how pissed the software companies are getting about losing billions of dollars.

So all this talk in this thread about a game or game company "making" money in the PC gaming industry is a fail. Piracy says so.jasonheyman

Stop bumping your own thread, no one is interested in your paranoid ramblings.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

 

And this has what to do with Crytek's CEO and EA claiming that they made profit, that the game exceeded sales expecatations and that EA is happy?

Sure we know piracy is prevelant on PC but you still didn't make a counter point at all to the responses to your previous statement.

And your claim about how they will never make another PC exclusive. What is Crysis Warhead?

jasonheyman

Because they made no profit off of any game. They should have made billions more. And Warhead is the last exclusive Crytek is making for PC. Would you like the link?

As of June 27, 2008,Crysis has beaten EA's expectations and sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, according to a gamesradar article.

August 19, 2008 - CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

http://pc.ign.com/articles/899/899976p1.html

They made profit off the game. You're arguement fails to prove that it didn't make profit. If it didn't make profit they wouldn't even have green lighted Warhead.

So all this talk in this thread about a game or game company "making" money in the PC gaming industry is a fail. Piracy says so.jasonheyman

Did Crytek say the game wasn't profitable? Did EA say it wasn't profitable? Please show me.

Sales

As of June 27, 2008,Crysis has beaten EA's expectations and sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, according to a gamesradar article.

August 19, 2008 - CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

http://pc.ign.com/articles/899/899976p1.html

They made profit off the game. You're arguement fails to prove that it didn't make profit. If it didn't make profit they wouldn't even have green lighted Warhead.

Blackbond

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

 

 

This proves that there are 40mil machines out there capable of running UT3 and Crysis...

This shows clearly how a huge amount of cash is flowing from software to hardware industry...

Now imagine if the hardware industry cooperated with software industry....all piracy issues would be solved...thats the future of PC gaming.

jasonheyman

No this shows how many people steal. And how pissed the software companies are getting about losing billions of dollars.

Piracy has as much to do with theft as rape has to do with car speeding...

Also you disagree that there are 40mil machine capable of running UT3? What does that prove? That Intel/Nvidia/AMD-ATI have made a huge amount of cash...

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

jasonheyman

My point? Oh wow come on get with it man. You said they made no profit and they clearly did. What do yo mean they made profit on what they sold -Maybe- um no its a fact that they did. This isn't Enron here, the CEO came out and said that they made money, EA said that they exceeded sales expectations, EA claimed that they were happy so did they truely make a profit? Yes.

I suggest you go read an accounting book because if you make profit and get your product pirated to hell you don't deduct pirated copies from your earnings and create a loss man.

Good lord what are you thinking. So by your logic Crysis is billions in debt. Oh I've given up explaining economics in SW here.  I can't wait until the end of the fiscal year when Crytek  and  EA come out posting losses in the billions over Crysis lol.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]Sales

As of June 27, 2008,Crysis has beaten EA's expectations and sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, according to a gamesradar article.

August 19, 2008 - CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

http://pc.ign.com/articles/899/899976p1.html

They made profit off the game. You're arguement fails to prove that it didn't make profit. If it didn't make profit they wouldn't even have green lighted Warhead.

jasonheyman

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

You spend 15 million and you make your money back and then some you make a profit. Now the game got pirated x amount of times, so they didn't make any money off the pirates. but they wouldn't have anyhow. First off not all pirates would ever buy the game. Plus some would have pirated the game and found it wouldn't work, so again no sale. Yes they lost some money to piracy but not as much as you think.

The main thing about when you make a game is to make a profit. Heck piracy is good, it means if you make a good game you started to build a reputation amongst gamers. More that play your game the better. it means the next game would have built in hype.

Also here is a case study for you why do you think microsoft windows is the biggest OS, because the older versions were pirated to hell and back and then microsoft got market share.

None of you guys seems to know how the game industry works. Here are some words from someone who knows.

In order for your dev team to make $$$ you need to follow the industry rules. You pitch game idea, you get advance aka funding on idea from publisher, you make the game, then you get a cut of the net sales, minus the advance aka funding.

It works like this.

Sales X ROYALTEES - Budget (Advance Funding By Publisher) = NET PROFIT for Dev Team.

Okay. So You the Cryptek team or whatever comes up with a brilliant idea like Crysis. So you pitch the idea to the publisher EA. The publisher EA says great. You got a great game idea. So here's 22 million dollars in advance to develop the game and we will give you TOPS 23% Royaltees on the Gross (Royaltees Cap at around 24%) So now with 22 million from EA you make your game Crysis.

Years later

1.5 Million units in Sales = 37 million USD in Gross Sales at (25 USD per sale minus, distributors cut)

37 million X 0.23% (royaltees) = 8 million - 22 million advance = -14 million.

You've just lost 14 million dollars.

As a developer Crysis was a flop, EA made money on their investment, but the Devs must have gotten sponsorship dollars to be laughing. Otherwise they are crying.

People if you don't know WTF you are talking about then keep quiet. Game business is complicated just like film, and I work in film.

P.S Blackbond just got owned again.

pimperjones

I have no knowledge in this field i just see some inconsistencies, correct me if i am wrong.

The firing squad article you linked says "Gross income on a 3,000,000 seller = $105,000,000" so shouldn't 1,5 million = $52,500,000 and not 37million like you said (the article doesn't say if it refers to pc gaming or console gaming and it brings up the original far cry)?

I don't know if it matters but in greece where i live the game used to cost 50 euros(at that time i think it was about 50*1,53=76$) and i assume the same price was in other european countries,so in that case shouldn't we use another equation for European countries(or asian or whatever) which results in more profit (or perhaps less in other regions) for crytek?

Besides all that, PC games continue to sell well for a long period of time , and i am assuming crysis after the price cut and as more and more people upgrade their rigs it will continue to sell.

Personally i like to play some games for the gameplay alone and some for the gameplay and graphics, for me crysis has very good gameplay for an fps and excellent graphics and in the event the game made profit because it was funded by nvidia (speculations aside the facts so far show that it made a profit because of sales) i really don't care cause i had a lot of fun with the game.

Also few questions for anyone with knowledge (google didn't help much)

1)Is the distibuters cut always the same and in every country?

2)What exactly are royalties in pc gaming(in google i didn't find an explenation why there are royalties in pc gaming) and why is there a cap?

3)Is it possible that crytek made a different arrangement-contract with EA than the one which the equation suggests? In other words is there a possibility that a different equation alltogether should be used or does every game ever published follow the exact same formula?

[QUOTE="pimperjones"]

None of you guys seems to know how the game industry works. Here are some words from someone who knows.

In order for your dev team to make $$$ you need to follow the industry rules. You pitch game idea, you get advance aka funding on idea from publisher, you make the game, then you get a cut of the net sales, minus the advance aka funding.

It works like this.

Sales X ROYALTEES - Budget (Advance Funding By Publisher) = NET PROFIT for Dev Team.

Okay. So You the Cryptek team or whatever comes up with a brilliant idea like Crysis. So you pitch the idea to the publisher EA. The publisher EA says great. You got a great game idea. So here's 22 million dollars in advance to develop the game and we will give you TOPS 23% Royaltees on the Gross (Royaltees Cap at around 24%) So now with 22 million from EA you make your game Crysis.

Years later

1.5 Million units in Sales = 37 million USD in Gross Sales at (25 USD per sale minus, distributors cut)

37 million X 0.23% (royaltees) = 8 million - 22 million advance = -14 million.

You've just lost 14 million dollars.

As a developer Crysis was a flop, EA made money on their investment, but the Devs must have gotten sponsorship dollars to be laughing. Otherwise they are crying.

People if you don't know WTF you are talking about then keep quiet. Game business is complicated just like film, and I work in film.

P.S Blackbond just got owned again.

Apssei

I have no knowledge in this field i just see some inconsistencies, correct me if i am wrong.

The firing squad article you linked says "Gross income on a 3,000,000 seller = $105,000,000" so shouldn't 1,5 million = $52,500,000 and not 37million like you said?

I don't know if it matters but in greece where i live the game used to cost 50 euros(at that time i think it was about 50*1,53=76$) and i assume the same price was in other european countries,so in that case shouldn't we use another equation for European countries(or asian or whatever) which results in more profit (or perhaps less in other regions) for crytek?

Besides all that, PC games continue to sell well for a long period of time , and i am assuming crysis after the price cut and as more and more people upgrade their rigs it will continue to sell.

Personally i like to play some games for the gameplay alone and some for the gameplay and graphics, for me crysis has very good gameplay for an fps and excellent graphics and in the event the game made profit because it was funded by nvidia (speculations aside the facts so far show that it made a profit because of sales) i really don't care cause i had a lot of fun with the game.

Also few questions for anyone with knowledge (google didn't help much)

1)Is the distibuters cut always the same and in every country?

2)What exactly are royalties in pc gaming(in google i didn't find an explenation why there are royalties in pc gaming) and why is there a cap?

3)Is it possible that crytek made a different arrangement-contract with EA than the one which the equation suggests? In other words is there a possibility that a different equation alltogether should be used or does every game ever published follow the exact same formula?

Ti leei re patrida?

As far as Greece and most  of EU is concerned console gaming is hugely overpriced with Xbox360/PS3 games retail at €65-€70...its a huge rip off...

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

jasonheyman

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

AdrianWerner

What Crytek didnt understand or dont want to admit is that there is a set amount of cash in the market and when the hardware industry is devouring most of that cash there is not much left for software....its a fact of life....either Crytek hits the fist on the table and demands a share from the hardware industry to keep making demanding games that will push that very hardware or they stop and it rots on the shelves...

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

Yeah ok and your point is what? He made profit off of what he sold? Maybe? But then again he lost billions to piracy! And he has complained about it hence the move to consoles along side PC. So did he truly make a profit? NO! He lost billions period so he truly make a profit no he didn't

True_Gamer_

What Crytek didnt understand or dont want to admit is that there is a set amount of cash in the market and when the hardware industry is devouring most of that cash there is not much left for software....its a fact of life....either Crytek hits the fist on the table and demands a share from the hardware industry to keep making demanding games that will push that very hardware or they stop and it rots on the shelves...

The biggest gpu-hungry games already are getting plenty of money from companies in form of sponsorsphip

Plus really... who would Nvidia or ATI share money with? There's merely few (less than 5) PC devs who actualy do push the hardware enough to inspire gpu sales 

This statement confirms the attitude a lot of game developers discussed earlier this year at the 2008 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, CA. We spoke with Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, and learned that the Unreal Tournament 3 servers received over 40 million attempts at illegitimate access using pirate keys. That number is huge, and the real magnitude comes when you calculate the retail price of $49.99 (59.99 for Collector's Edition).

If those 40 million players actually paid the full price, it would have been nearly $2 billion more in Epic's pocket book. That is more than the quarterly sales results from Nvidia or AMD. To add another perspective, the government lost out as well, because no sales tax is earned on pirated copies.

When you take into account that Crytek saw similar levels of pirated copies, it is easy to see how big of a deal gaming piracy is. Between two games there were billions of dollars of lost sales. The natural instinct is of course to hit the platform(s) where they can actually earn money, which is looking less and less favorable for PC gaming.jasonheyman

Woah. Relax. 

So you're telling me that millions more people will take a free game than spend $60 on it? Really? 

I don't like piracy, but acting like 40 million instances of piracy is even anywhere NEAR 40 million lost sales simply ignores economics. I can think of tons of games that I'd take for free, but wouldn't be willing to pay for. 

Ti leei re patrida?

As far as Greece and most of EU is concerned console gaming is hugely overpriced with Xbox360/PS3 games retail at €65-€70...its a huge rip off...

True_Gamer_

Gia hara simpatrioti.

Yeah and unfortunetely very often the same goes for pc hardware and many other categories of products.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"]This statement confirms the attitude a lot of game developers discussed earlier this year at the 2008 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, CA. We spoke with Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, and learned that the Unreal Tournament 3 servers received over 40 million attempts at illegitimate access using pirate keys. That number is huge, and the real magnitude comes when you calculate the retail price of $49.99 (59.99 for Collector's Edition).

If those 40 million players actually paid the full price, it would have been nearly $2 billion more in Epic's pocket book. That is more than the quarterly sales results from Nvidia or AMD. To add another perspective, the government lost out as well, because no sales tax is earned on pirated copies.

When you take into account that Crytek saw similar levels of pirated copies, it is easy to see how big of a deal gaming piracy is. Between two games there were billions of dollars of lost sales. The natural instinct is of course to hit the platform(s) where they can actually earn money, which is looking less and less favorable for PC gaming.sonicmj1

Woah. Relax.

So you're telling me that millions more people will take a free game than spend $60 on it? Really?

I don't like piracy, but acting like 40 million instances of piracy is even anywhere NEAR 40 million lost sales simply ignores economics. I can think of tons of games that I'd take for free, but wouldn't be willing to pay for.

Economics + System Wars =  :|    :arrow:   :lol:

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Ti leei re patrida?

As far as Greece and most of EU is concerned console gaming is hugely overpriced with Xbox360/PS3 games retail at €65-€70...its a huge rip off...

Apssei

Gia hara simpatrioti.

Yeah and unfortunetely very often the same goes for pc hardware and many other categories of products.

As far as E-shop/plaisio and skroutz.gr have demonstrated a PC PREBUILT on the site configurator can be made at most €400 thats a C2D+9600GT machine that owns any console royally....

And is at a PS3 price...but a PS3 owner after the console purchase is just the beginning....with €65-€70 games coming his way...

[QUOTE="Apssei"]

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Ti leei re patrida?

As far as Greece and most of EU is concerned console gaming is hugely overpriced with Xbox360/PS3 games retail at €65-€70...its a huge rip off...

True_Gamer_

Gia hara simpatrioti.

Yeah and unfortunetely very often the same goes for pc hardware and many other categories of products.

As far as E-shop/plaisio and skroutz.gr have demonstrated a PC PREBUILT on the site configurator can be made at most €400 thats a C2D+9600GT machine that owns any console royally....

And is at a PS3 price...but a PS3 owner after the console purchase is just the beginning....with €65-€70 games coming his way...

hehe kai esi ksipnios ;

I agree, i was trying to say that many products are more expensive in Greece (and probably in other European countries) than the US, i wasn't trying to compare consoles with the pc.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

Who cares?

 

It's all about game quality.

 

jasonheyman

Your quality and my quality are to different things. You think that extra shades and textures make the quality I don't and a lot of others feel this way when you look at the numbers;)

Riiight, it has nothing to do with themore quality exclusives, the mods, the better online :roll: .... just little graphical enhancements right? :roll:

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="Apssei"]

 

 

Gia hara simpatrioti.

Yeah and unfortunetely very often the same goes for pc hardware and many other categories of products.

Apssei

As far as E-shop/plaisio and skroutz.gr have demonstrated a PC PREBUILT on the site configurator can be made at most €400 thats a C2D+9600GT machine that owns any console royally....

And is at a PS3 price...but a PS3 owner after the console purchase is just the beginning....with €65-€70 games coming his way...

hehe kai esi ksipnios ;

I agree, i was trying to say that many products are more expensive in Greece (and probably in other European countries) than the US, i wasn't trying to compare consoles with the pc.

nai kai egw ellhnas koursaros....

I understand but people still believe that by buying a console they save money...espessially the ps3....which dominates Greece...

nai kai egw ellhnas koursaros....

I understand but people still believe that by buying a console they save money...espessially the ps3....which dominates Greece...

True_Gamer_

ennoousa kiriolektika ksipnios giati apantises arga to bradi...

sry for the off topic

No one has any answers for my previous questions? oh well...