Could Neo's clock speed be changed like the PSP via firmware?

There has been much ado regarding Neo's no-show at E3. However, Sony has a history of bumping specs when it would seem apt. Since we are working with standardized APU hardware which is a known entity in the hardware space, is it possible that Neo is still on track for original delivery date but the final specification a... "moving target"?

Riddle me this, riddle me that. What say you, System Wars?

@Shewgenja:

They will try to match/surpass Scorpio/NX.

They all are playing the "you reveal 1st" game.

In theory it is but it would probably piss off AMD.

Sony are the masters of hardware they can probably overclock their cpu a bit to help run some VR games.

I have faith in sony they designed walkman / bluray / dvd

there masters of hardware and making things look and run great.

I say I'm going to wait for Sony (and the other two) to tell me what they're doing.

I think so too. Be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

They could quadruple all the specs and the next big game would still be the 100th Uncharted clone.

Sony did something like this before.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/sony-unlocks-playstation-4s-7th-cpu-core-in-sdk-up-32795147/#288

The Cows are already praying NEO's specs will increase since it's getting destroyed by Scorpios specs lol.

TCHBFO!!

To do so they would have to guarantee all die yields are up to the standards for what they want to overclock, and then they would have to be able to cool it off, aka the fan and cooling system would need to be adequate.

I would say that they would have to prepare for this now before shipping the model, and it is definitely possible, especially if they don't know what Microsoft is planning with their next system and want to have a trump card up their sleeves.

They helped design bluray and dvd.. it doesn't belong to them.

Microsoft will win that game, they're taking notes right out of Sony's playbook for Scorpio hence the 2017 launch, let the competition go first, rip ideas from them, undercut them, one up them and then dominate them.

They only down clocked when it was unnecessary to preserve battery life. Games like God of War would use 333mhz clock speed.

PS4 neo is apparently using the 14nm FinFet APU.

I doubt those specs are accurate, the hardware does not even exist yet to make it possible.

It was done on PSP to save battery life.

I don't see the reason in downclocking a console, which is not running off a battery, unless you have too much problems with heat.

They can't match the Xbox

I don't think so. MS still haven't finalized the specs for the Scorpio yet. Unless Sony is going to delay the Neo until mid 2017, I don't think so.

@xhawk27: "MS still haven't finalized the specs for the Scorpio yet."

Of course they didn't finalize the specs yet,They're waiting for the competition to release info 1st.

The Scorpio is still in the early design phase I bet. The Neo is suppose to launch before the end of the year so it's basically done.

@xhawk27: "The Neo is suppose to launch before the end of the year so it's basically done."

And thats why I think Sony was well positioned to reveal the NEO at E3. Things all change when Scorpio rumors came along.

Sony still wants to position the PS4 product line as the most powerful console on the market. They don't want to be one-up by the folks at MSoft.

NO.

You pay for the GPU you have not for the clock speed,that is like saying AMD will be piss with Power Color for selling an OC 480 vs stock clocks,AMD doesn't interfere with its clients when it comes to clock speed,is up to the re seller to offer different clocks and find proper cooling to the clock speed it has.

If sony can't rise the clocks is because of risk of over heating or running to hot,remember the PS4 is a console,also sony can take the power supply out of the unit and make room for better cooling but maybe is not cost effective as they want.

The only one who think Scopior will destroy anything are die hard blind lemmings,from all we know Scorpio is a hold back by TDP as the Neo is,which mean they probably end using the same GPU but with different clock speeds.

The difference will be marginal at worse.

But but but you don't care about power B4X remember.?

There is a limit to what MS can do,and MS is not coming with Scorpio in 2017 because it letting sony go first,is because they were catch off guard by sony with Neo,is the leaks are true we may see Neo this year in fall,the Scorpio 1 year after that,there is not much you can do on consoles in that time without rising the cost of the unit much and getting into losses,MS can wait for Vega but that will not cost the same as the 480 will require better cooling and bigger case again,if what i read is correct they would also have a 480 like GPU probably with higher clock speed which will not change much.

MS could have top sony hardware wise on 2013,but that would have mean not using an APU,and losing money,AMD biggest Soc was the one Sony got,it was bigger than any Soc on PC GPU wise by a considerable margin back on 2013,it was bigger than the xbox one as well GPU wise,alto MS could have use the same Soc sony use instead of wasting their die spec with ESRAM.

They already beat the xbox back in 2013. lol

Supposedly MS also has a RX480 like GPU with 36CU,this from documents which talked about a 36CU GPU and name scorpio,it was posted here,so if in deed they have the same GPU with 36CU both consoles will be the same and all the difference will be clock speeds.

@tormentos: You have any idea how corporate contracts work? Sony isn't a reseller of AMD's product. Power Color is an Add-In Board partner and nothing in their contracts states they cannot raise clock speeds. AMD however can at times apply restrictions for modifying power delivery, BIOS and other things just like NVIDIA does with many AIB.

Very doubtful. Well to be fair it depends if they design the physical hardware around the possibility of an uptick which I don't think they will at all.

Like the people wanted the PS4 to get and overclock but the masteries of Sony hardware design were so precise I doubt they gave it much thought considering how tiny it already is and they wouldn't know how much more heat that would generate.

Yes i do and that is like saying that AMD or Nvidia will be piss with you for over clocking your GPu to get close or match a higher end model,so you have a 970 and OC it close to 980 level yeah were is Nvidia getting mad for it.?

NO really.? WTF do you get when you buy a PS4.? You get a damn AMD GPU and CPU sony is selling you a console with those components no different than asus or other laptop desktop vendors.

Unless you show me proof of sony contract with AMD were it say that sony can't rise the clock speed you have shit,in fact MS increased the clock speed of both and didn't have to pay extra to AMD,and in fact those components are lower clocked already vs stock and is not because AMD doesn't want higher clock speed that is incredibly stupid,is because consoles are more prone to heat than PC where better cooling is available.

So yeah again No AMD will say shit about it,and can't say anything is sony who is responsible for what clock the Soc has and the effect it has on the hardware not AMD is sony want to burn its console at 1400mhz they can do so and AMD can say shit about it their only concern is getting $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per chip.

@tormentos: I never said they could not idiot, I said AMD would be pissed off at them for overclocking. They would call Sony and ask them why the f they didn't pony up extra $$$ for better specs. Thousands of hours of stress tests were done before mass producing the parts, if the client just raises the clock speed, yes it would piss off the contractor. The failure rate would likely dramatically go up which may require hardware revisions that AMD would not anticipate. The whole chain of production would be screwed up as a result. Yes it would piss off AMD.

Stop comparing consumer level purchases to corporate contracts. They have nothing to do with one another.

And stop lying, your dumb ass has no idea how corporate contracts work. Know how to build a corporate structure? Aware of that department called legal/risks? Then you shouldn't wonder why AMD would be pissed off.

How would Sony beat MS by upping the clock speed if MS is going to launch the Scorpio at a much later time? Wouldn't MS just 1 up Sony and up their clock speed to surpass Sony?

All the shit you are saying there is a joke it is a PC part which runs at 1266mhz on PC without OC if anything the Neo version is underclocked,so i don't think that will cause any problems again because what sony pay for is the chips not the clock speed that is adjust to fit sony criteria for their product and mind you that while AMD makes the Soc it is sony who stress tests it on their own design,do you think AMD designed the huge ass xbox one.? How come is so huge vs the PS4 which is very slim while the PS4 is stronger and has an internal PSU which the xbox one also lack.?

Those design come from sony,own engineers,so is playing with setting and clock speed,what sony and MS do is keep those lower than the PC part to ensure the console doesn't break at least not before the warranty run off,other wise you end like MS paying 1+ billions in repairs.

This parts are full blown PC parts,is a full 480 just like the PS4 is a full 7870,the 2CU disable are not because the PS4 can't run with those active but because for yield purposes is efficient as not all chips come out with 20CU any that comes with less than 20CU would have to be drop,so using 18CU warranty that any chip with more 18 CU or more can be use and yields improves which are important for making units faster.

So again AMD is not stress testing this for the PS4,they already stress test it for PC at higher clock speeds,which obviously will draw less heat if you clock it lower,the PS4 is 200mhz under the 7870 base clock speed,if we do the same with Polaris and clock it 200 lower that mean the PS4 Neo could be 1060mhz which isn't the best but isn't the worse either,and like MS showed there is room for rising the clock,i say 1ghz is not out of the question at all.

i heard u can download ram with neo too!!!

@tormentos: If it's underclocked then it doesn't matter. Overclocking is running a part at higher speeds than its intended capacity. If a chip is designed to run at 1,000Mhz and Sony runs it at 900Mhz then they are not overclocking it if they run it at 1,000Mhz.

AMD did not design the entire PS4 nor did they design the entire Xbox One. They just developped the APU. They had nothing to do with the other parts so the Xbox One being huge has nothing to do with AMD but with the other components.

Exactly that is my point since Neo is say to be 911mhz when the suppose stock part is 1266mhz then you have room to play,i don't know how much they have,hell i think they can push is up to 1100 or more,but they risk getting into heating problems for a few more frames,which is probably not worth it,hell maybe like the PS4 at 800mhz it will stay at 911mhz.

I don't think MS considered power to be a huge factor before, but that will change when Scorpio is released. They know they have to have the more powerful machine. Sony has know chance when MS is determined to beat them and i think Sony knew it reason why there holding off revealing it.

@Juub1990: why would it annoy AMD?

on topic: yes they can. it just depends on whether the cooling system in the neo and the power supply can deal with the extra load in terms of heat and power. assuming thats all good they can clock it however they like basically.

It looks like it will use a Zen CPU over the jaguar.

Why does the Neo need to increase the clock ?

Wow Tormentos

.......just wow.

Quit while youre behind.

Consumer buying an end product and a business partnership are different animals.

Overclocking is done at the risk of the consumer

Sony overclocking and having a higher failure rate could potentially affect AMDs stock.

The PR hit would be enormous

"New AMD chips failing in the PS4"

"AMD chips causing PS4s to overheat"

If you overclock and burn your house down...........its just your house.

Consumers assume responsibilty.

You think Sony or AMD want to absorb that PR hit?

Even if the APU is rated for 1200 and they run at 1000, raising it would still increase failure rates in production and heat in the console.

Still would piss off AMD since it hasnt budgeted for those costs.

If Sony bought 40m AMD APUs from Newegg then yea, do what you want with them

I can't wait to see Neo wreck the Scorpio like PS4 wrecked the Xbone. Lems will start crying about how sales and power don't mean a thing again lol.

They are screaming power right after the Scorpio rumors.

If you want Neo to wreck Scorpio, then you should hope the leaked specs are scrapped altogether.

The numbers released arent a significant upgrade. Sony (and MS) needs to move away from tablet CPUs. Doesnt matter how fast you make them......they are still worthless

Maybe I missed it but why should they update the clock speed in the NEO ?

@spitfire-six:

Big truck syndrome.

All these recent console speculation threads are giving me endless entertainment.

Anyone who objectively looks at the little info we have, would likely come to the same conclusion.

Sony is apparently aiming for 4.2 TF for the Neo. There hasn't been one shred of evidence that suggests that they are looking to raise the clock speed so far. In fact, with Sony preferring to have an internal power supply, along with a minimal physical footprint... I believe the Neo would run into temperature problems if they attempted to raise it.

People like tormentos are a weird lot. He's speculating on top of speculation. Who does that?

Yeah, but IF the Scorpios specs are real (still not convinced they won't downgrade the specs to save money) the Neo still won't match it, would be good for VR though.

I think SONY mad a smart move with NEO, Being able to push a better version of there VR experience is Crucial if they want VR to be successful.

they Saw a potential problem and they fixed it

Smoother performance, better VR performance, the real question should be if you can do it then why not

i can't wait for all the Cows to suddenly start claiming that Graphics and resolution don't matter.

and if the Specs rumors are real then even with a CPU clock upgrade the Scorpio is going to kill the NEO in the power department.

they also made this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc

Sony hasn't been good at hardware in 10 years really. When I was growing up, sony was great (except the mini disc) walkman, discman, sony TVs and VCRs, all top quality stuff. Now they try selling mid quality stuff off their name as top of the line stuff. Their car audio is terrible, phones are terrible, VAIO was terrible (and sold off) PS1, PS2 and PS3 were not top of the line hardware. PS4 is but one could make the argument it only looks that way because MS underpowered the XB1 since both systems weren't on par with PC at launch like the xbox and 360 were. There TVs are good, but not top tier anymore but still priced as top tier, which is why samsung is killing it. Blu Ray had about 5 big companies involved wasn't just sony by any means, Samsung was the first one to launch a blu ray player.

Realistically the only sony device worth owning right now is the PS4, as every other device they make is mid quality for top tier price.

Thank you.

They definitely can to some degree but I would expect it to be much. There's no way they try to match Scorpio.

Get the console out 6+ months ahead of Scorpio at the same price or $100 less with a good lineup of "enhanced games" like Horizon.

Speculating on top of speculation

Spot on description

There is no evidence to show Microsoft have been caught of guard and the scropio is using technology out now. In fact there is no speculation other than on this forum.

Simple answer: Yes.

Microsoft changed the clock speed on the original Xbox One, but this device has CPU, ESRAM and GPU locked in a sync ratio which could make it difficult to overclock e.g. ESRAM could be unstable at higher clock speed. Scorpio doesn't have XBO's ESRAM, hence it's "game on" from Microsoft. Both Jaguar and Bonaire was proven to clock higher.

NEO's 2.1 Ghz CPU and 911 Mhz GPU doesn't seem to fit in a known sync ratio i.e. perhaps decoupled clock speed/async design which leads to higher reserve clock speed numbers.

PS4's cooling solution

For higher clock speeds, increase metal block's size i.e. reference GPU's style cooling solution was designed to scale.

The problem for Sony is with power regulators e.g. it limits reference RX-480 to 1607 Mhz with very hot power regulators while GPU's temps wasn't hot.

"Beast Mode" RX-480 with 8 pin power plug and upgraded power regulators could go beyond 1607 Mhz or improved power regulator's temps.

For NEO's case, it depends on cooling solution, power regulators and PCB's power circuit.

Scorpio's 384 bit memory bus PCB could also include very robust power regulator layout design from R9-280/R9-280X i.e. AMD's current 384 bit PCB design.

Part of the overall cost factor is with power regulator solution i.e. if Sony gimped on power regulator solution then NEO is limited to low clock speed increase.

AMD offered official firmware updates to the original 7950 owners i.e. turning 7950 into 7950 Boost Edition SKU. My 7950 was 900Mhz factory overclocked, hence BE update was useless.