Sony hasn't been good at hardware in 10 years really. When I was growing up, sony was great (except the mini disc) walkman, discman, sony TVs and VCRs, all top quality stuff. Now they try selling mid quality stuff off their name as top of the line stuff. Their car audio is terrible, phones are terrible, VAIO was terrible (and sold off) PS1, PS2 and PS3 were not top of the line hardware. PS4 is but one could make the argument it only looks that way because MS underpowered the XB1 since both systems weren't on par with PC at launch like the xbox and 360 were. There TVs are good, but not top tier anymore but still priced as top tier, which is why samsung is killing it. Blu Ray had about 5 big companies involved wasn't just sony by any means, Samsung was the first one to launch a blu ray player.
Realistically the only sony device worth owning right now is the PS4, as every other device they make is mid quality for top tier price.
@dotWithShoes said:
@ProtossRushX said:
Sony are the masters of hardware they can probably overclock their cpu a bit to help run some VR games.
I have faith in sony they designed walkman / bluray / dvd
there masters of hardware and making things look and run great.
They helped design bluray and dvd.. it doesn't belong to them.
They were also in on design of Betamax and UMD which failed..........................but no mention of those. Well that's peculiar.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
Lol Xbox has been having exclusives after exclusives we've been spoilt. At least Microsoft had the balls to announce their console while Sony chickend out. They couldn't face the prospect of their weakling Neo compared to the monster that is Scorpio.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
Lol Xbox has been having exclusives after exclusives we've been spoilt. At least Microsoft had the balls to announce their console while Sony chickend out. They couldn't face the prospect of their weakling Neo compared to the monster that is Scorpio.
It's okay to just take the 'L' every once in a while. We've all had to do it at some time or the other. We know that having no AAAAE for your precious XBox is rough. We know that the WiiU having more exclusives is rough. Just take the 'L'. Dust yourself off. Put on the cheerleader outfit and shake those pom-poms in 2017 when people MIGHT take you more seriously. Maybe.
Lol Xbox has been having exclusives after exclusives we've been spoilt. At least Microsoft had the balls to announce their console while Sony chickend out. They couldn't face the prospect of their weakling Neo compared to the monster that is Scorpio.
Hahahaa what exclusives... lol
MS didn't have anything MS just announce a bunch of empty specs to try to rain on Neo's parade and sony was to smart again for MS,now MS has to deliver a 6TF or more console capable of 4K 60FPS with no compromises which is the wording they use on E3,anything less than that will results in endless rage wars and flames toward MS.
Fact is sony doesn't need more power to beat MS and that is proven already,last time an xbox console arrived 1+ years after a PS one the generation ended 156 million vs 25 million,sony only only has the games but also the time advantage which is lethal on sony's hand.
@delta3074 said:
i can't wait for all the Cows to suddenly start claiming that Graphics and resolution don't matter.
and if the Specs rumors are real then even with a CPU clock upgrade the Scorpio is going to kill the NEO in the power department.
You mean like lemmings have done all this gen,after 2 freaking generations over hyping graphics,and throwing around superior versions.?
Scorpio will not kill Neo at anything even with the gap in flops,it would be probably 20 FPS difference or a little more at the same settings at 4k resolution at 1080p Neo can deliver ultra 60FPS just like Scorpio.
But is nice to see that full lemming out ...hahahahaaa For a moment there i though you were blackace had to double check your name...lol
@darkangel115 said:
they also made this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc
Sony hasn't been good at hardware in 10 years really. When I was growing up, sony was great (except the mini disc) walkman, discman, sony TVs and VCRs, all top quality stuff. Now they try selling mid quality stuff off their name as top of the line stuff. Their car audio is terrible, phones are terrible, VAIO was terrible (and sold off) PS1, PS2 and PS3 were not top of the line hardware. PS4 is but one could make the argument it only looks that way because MS underpowered the XB1 since both systems weren't on par with PC at launch like the xbox and 360 were. There TVs are good, but not top tier anymore but still priced as top tier, which is why samsung is killing it. Blu Ray had about 5 big companies involved wasn't just sony by any means, Samsung was the first one to launch a blu ray player.
Realistically the only sony device worth owning right now is the PS4, as every other device they make is mid quality for top tier price.
The PS2 was top of the line what the fu** are you smoking is not like MS freaking release the xbox on March 2000 alone side the PS2,MS release the xbox 20 months after the PS2 so almost 2 years the PS2 was top of the line,being replace by something newer it nothing change that fact that you were TOP of the line when you release.
Worse the N64 which was the strongest of the 3 back then,release in summer 1996,the PS1 release basically head to head with the Saturn in 1994,and the PS3 freaking walked all over the shitty xbox 360,which only good component was its damn GPU,it was cheap DVD,with no HDMI,no wifi,no HD media for movies,and a shitty CPU.
Saying the PS3 wasn't top of the line is a joke it is stronger than the xbox 360,and the Hybrid CPU it had inside actually make what no other console had done before beat one with a stronger GPU,fact is Cell + the RSX working together were stronger and give better results than the Xenos working with the shitty Xenon CPU,which barely could to anything to its the Xenos.
Not to mention it had freaking $1,000 blu-ray which was the winning format,claiming the PS3 wasn't top of the line because of having a weaker GPU is a joke,the PS3 cost to manufacture some $800+ even the cheap model.
And while Samsung had the first Blu-ray drive the PS3 was the one that sold the most,not only that it was superior quality to any Blu-ray for many years,the PS3 was in deed the best Blu-ray player and was upgradable software wise.
The best part is how you slam sony phones when MS ones sell like shit,thanks to MS OS...lol
The pain brought about by Scorpio's existence is real. Now we are playing the what if scenarios. Loyalist are hurting on the inside. Make more threads, let the pain out.
The pain brought about by Scorpio's existence is real. Now we are playing the what if scenarios. Loyalist are hurting on the inside. Make more threads, let the pain out.
performance gap between Scorpio and Neo is bigger than that between PS4 and Xbox One.
Apparently there are games on PS4 with a 30fps difference than Xbox One.
With the gap being bigger the performance difference stands to be more.
Its all speculation and time will tell.
Yes but there is also diminishing returns,the more CU you have performance doesn't scale linearly.
Reason why the 7970 doesn't double the 7850 in frames at the same resolution regardless of having double the CU and faster clock speed.
Yes but the xbox one has pitfalls not found on GPU normally,ESRAM DDR3,it make the gap the PS4 has be even more,not to mention MS first tools were not that good as DX12 complete is,alto most of the stuff was there.
At 1080p both will deliver the same results max settings 60FPS,on 1440p the Scorpio should have a nice gap,at 4k probably 15 4k,i say 20 but i was referring to 4k,but now that i look at it again,i think 20FPS in 4k it so much of a gap 15 or 12 may be more in line.
This is Hitman at 4k notice how the Fury X is 10FPS ahead of the R290.? You know how big the gap is between those 2 GPU flop wise.?
The R290 can do like 4.9TF while the Fury is like 8.5 TF we are talking here about close to 4TF in performance of difference yet that translate into 10FPS gap in Hitman at 4k.
Another test see how a close to 4TF difference in compute power translate into a 7 FPS gap between both,people thinking Scorpio will greatly outdo Neo will be in for a shock.
LMAO. Now diminishing returns is being taken into consideration because the Scorpio is faster than the PS4. LOL. Diminishing returns was viewed as rubbish for the PS4 and Xbox One but all of sudden its a thing with the next batch of consoles. HAHAHA.
The difference between the PS4 and Xbox One is marginal and the difference between the Scorpio and Neo would also be marginal.
LMAO. Now diminishing returns is being taken into consideration because the Scorpio is faster than the PS4. LOL. Diminishing returns was viewed as rubbish for the PS4 and Xbox One but all of sudden its a thing with the next batch of consoles. HAHAHA.
The difference between the PS4 and Xbox One is marginal and the difference between the Scorpio and Neo would also be marginal.
I totally agree this is likely. There will off course be exceptions where the difference will be more than marginal
But those marginal differences have been made a big deal on these forums for a while now.
In the real world the scorpio will perform better in all multiplats, but other things should be considered.
But this is system wars and Scorpio will kick Neo's ass.
In theory it is but it would probably piss off AMD.
Why do you think they would care?
@ronvalencia said:
@Juub1990 said:
In theory it is but it would probably piss off AMD.
AMD offered official firmware updates to the original 7950 owners i.e. turning 7950 into 7950 Boost Edition SKU. My 7950 was 900Mhz factory overclocked, hence BE update was useless.
@tormentos: When did they ever promise 4K at 60fps?
Oh they didn't promise it.
They simple talk about 4k,60FPS and NO compromises,and believe me it would be quoted 100 times,because what they try to do was imply that Scorpio could do 4k at 60 FPS in ultra,i don't know how naive you want to think people are,but believe me on system wars most people isn't and we can see when companies try to pull a fast one.
Never once they claim one of the 3 could be achieve but not the others,never did they talk about 1080p either.
It was clear what they did.
@Pedro said:
The pain brought about by Scorpio's existence is real. Now we are playing the what if scenarios. Loyalist are hurting on the inside. Make more threads, let the pain out.
Hahaha oh the hypocrites the ones who now can't see how the PS4 still owning the xbox one,look at it this way you have 1.5 years more of inferior ports and 720p crap with no exclusives,and when Scorpio arrive it would be 4 years of inferior ports which you have to endure,i am sure that is more than what we would have to wait until the next machine from sony arrives. :)
@jhonMalcovich said:
Overclocking a tiny plastic box with no proper cooling ? Yeh that seems like a good idea.
You mean like the xbox one did CPU and GPU wise.?
Or like the PS3 did when the RSX was higher clocked than the 7800GTX.?
Did you see the cooling of the fat PS3.? It was quite something and bigger than what most cards on PC had back then,the only difference was it was cramped in a smaller box.
@Phazevariance said:
Neo can't surpass Scorpio with just a clock increase, and even if they go that route, MS can clock increase scorpio and wipe that gain away.
I disagree...
First of all the GPU in Scorpio can be the R480 just like neo but at high clock speed,there was a screen grab posted here that Ronvalencia saw it as well,show the code name scorpio on MS page and talked about 36CU which is exactly the R480GPU.
For those of you who don't know the R480 can pass 6TF by just going 1350mhz,which isn't even a substantial up clock from the base 1266mhz on the stock model,in fact the stock model is 5.83TF which difference to Scorpio 6TF is so small that it would not probably yield 3 frame of difference.
Unless MS has a different GPU lets say Vega i don't see how they can,they can try to push it to 1400 or 1450 but that would be borderline fatal for a close box.
Now before you get the wrong idea MS like sony can OC,the problem is if both have the same GPU that would be a problem for MS.
I don't think the xbox one has a Vega GPU at all,why in hell go Vega to stay at 6 TF when the R480 can hit 5.83TF stock,i think MS has the same GPU in scorpio as neo.
I don't think the xbox one has a Vega GPU at all,why in hell go Vega to stay at 6 TF when the R480 can hit 5.83TF stock,i think MS has the same GPU in scorpio as neo.
You willing to bet your account on that?
I am
Microsoft are not idiots, they are not going to give Sony a year head start when they could release a console with the same GPU. Phil Spencer has already said he could have released a console this year with an upgraded GPU, but decided to wait for a better option.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
What's even more funny is ps4 fans seem to think if a game is available on both Xb1 and PC, it means that it instantly becomes playable by every ps4 owner. I like to imagine that every single ps4 gamer has a pc worthy of gaming as well, makes you wonder why they own a ps4?
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
What's even more funny is ps4 fans seem to think if a game is available on both Xb1 and PC, it means that it instantly becomes playable by every ps4 owner. I like to imagine that every single ps4 gamer has a pc worthy of gaming as well, makes you wonder why they own a ps4?
For the exclusives. Same reason why the PS3 yanked victory from the jaws of the 360.
I don't think the xbox one has a Vega GPU at all,why in hell go Vega to stay at 6 TF when the R480 can hit 5.83TF stock,i think MS has the same GPU in scorpio as neo.
You willing to bet your account on that?
I am
Microsoft are not idiots, they are not going to give Sony a year head start when they could release a console with the same GPU. Phil Spencer has already said he could have released a console this year with an upgraded GPU, but decided to wait for a better option.
No dude i will not bet my account,i know you have many i just use this one,so losing yours isn't really a loss.
You don't get it this is not about MS wanting to give sony a head start or not,MS was catch off guard by Neo,if MS want stronger hardware than Neo they can have it this same holiday,it is available already,the problem is that they started late on scorpio and sony started earlier is the only reason Neo can be release this year while Scorpio has to be on wait list,there is a test period this machines gone through,you can't do this in 6 months obviously,MS was focus on XBO S,and Scorpio is more of an after though.
In fact i would not be surprise to see it slip to early 2018,MS showed nothing on E3 it was just a list of spec and some vague claims.
Phil spencer say allot of shit which he later backtrack on,the mans words is a trust worthy as your,he is the same guy who deny that the xbox one would be sold without Kinect for $399 when the leaks came,and he claim it was an integral part of the xbox,not to mention he claim to not like incremental upgrades,then show with scorpio specs.
I don't know how you even believe that crap so are you implying that the strongest GPU out there from AMD is the RX480.?
Because that is not what you people have been arguing me about,in fact many of you claim it would be lower than the R390X and some even claim 380X for the RX480.
There are several GPU stronger than the RX480,which they could have use that is an excuse of Phil to justify being late,it is confirmed by the fact that Scorpio is 6TF,when the RX480 is basically that 6TF,come one man 5.83TF to 6TF is nothing MS would not fu**ing win 5 frames per second going from 1 to the other,and would have release this year,but that was just a sad excuse to justify being late.
Now does Vega has a 6TF GPU i doubt it,Vega is 64CU and close to 10TF,so please explain to me how MS will pay for a Vega GPU to water it down to 6TF,when now they can have a R X480 with 5.83TF and cut the wait.?
You are taking as good the word of MS which we know has being extremely shaky in recent years even from Phil.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
Lol Xbox has been having exclusives after exclusives we've been spoilt. At least Microsoft had the balls to announce their console while Sony chickend out. They couldn't face the prospect of their weakling Neo compared to the monster that is Scorpio.
It's okay to just take the 'L' every once in a while. We've all had to do it at some time or the other. We know that having no AAAAE for your precious XBox is rough. We know that the WiiU having more exclusives is rough. Just take the 'L'. Dust yourself off. Put on the cheerleader outfit and shake those pom-poms in 2017 when people MIGHT take you more seriously. Maybe.
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
Almost as funny as watching Lemmings pretend they have a console now because of a late 2017 announcement after getting no exclusives and bashing Sony for announcing things that won't come out within a year.
What's even more funny is ps4 fans seem to think if a game is available on both Xb1 and PC, it means that it instantly becomes playable by every ps4 owner. I like to imagine that every single ps4 gamer has a pc worthy of gaming as well, makes you wonder why they own a ps4?
For the exclusives. Same reason why the PS3 yanked victory from the jaws of the 360.
You mean, the reason the ps3 yanked 2nd place from the 360?
Hahaha oh the hypocrites the ones who now can't see how the PS4 still owning the xbox one,look at it this way you have 1.5 years more of inferior ports and 720p crap with no exclusives,and when Scorpio arrive it would be 4 years of inferior ports which you have to endure,i am sure that is more than what we would have to wait until the next machine from sony arrives. :)
I know you are hurting on the inside but, everything is going to be alright. Just buy a Xbox One S, it will soothe the pain.
It'll be ok sony fans. One day, sony will release Ps5 two years after Scorpio and then it'll hold the top powerful console award again until the next xbox comes out, all in a staggered bi-yearly pattern.
I don't think the xbox one has a Vega GPU at all,why in hell go Vega to stay at 6 TF when the R480 can hit 5.83TF stock,i think MS has the same GPU in scorpio as neo.
You willing to bet your account on that?
I am
Microsoft are not idiots, they are not going to give Sony a year head start when they could release a console with the same GPU. Phil Spencer has already said he could have released a console this year with an upgraded GPU, but decided to wait for a better option.
No dude i will not bet my account,i know you have many i just use this one,so losing yours isn't really a loss.
You don't get it this is not about MS wanting to give sony a head start or not,MS was catch off guard by Neo,if MS want stronger hardware than Neo they can have it this same holiday,it is available already,the problem is that they started late on scorpio and sony started earlier is the only reason Neo can be release this year while Scorpio has to be on wait list,there is a test period this machines gone through,you can't do this in 6 months obviously,MS was focus on XBO S,and Scorpio is more of an after though.
In fact i would not be surprise to see it slip to early 2018,MS showed nothing on E3 it was just a list of spec and some vague claims.
Phil spencer say allot of shit which he later backtrack on,the mans words is a trust worthy as your,he is the same guy who deny that the xbox one would be sold without Kinect for $399 when the leaks came,and he claim it was an integral part of the xbox,not to mention he claim to not like incremental upgrades,then show with scorpio specs.
I don't know how you even believe that crap so are you implying that the strongest GPU out there from AMD is the RX480.?
Because that is not what you people have been arguing me about,in fact many of you claim it would be lower than the R390X and some even claim 380X for the RX480.
There are several GPU stronger than the RX480,which they could have use that is an excuse of Phil to justify being late,it is confirmed by the fact that Scorpio is 6TF,when the RX480 is basically that 6TF,come one man 5.83TF to 6TF is nothing MS would not fu**ing win 5 frames per second going from 1 to the other,and would have release this year,but that was just a sad excuse to justify being late.
Now does Vega has a 6TF GPU i doubt it,Vega is 64CU and close to 10TF,so please explain to me how MS will pay for a Vega GPU to water it down to 6TF,when now they can have a R X480 with 5.83TF and cut the wait.?
You are taking as good the word of MS which we know has being extremely shaky in recent years even from Phil.
You wont bet your account because you are talking shit.
You have no evidence to back up anything you say,
You claim I have multiple accounts with no evidence, I've already proven I was not an account you claimed using the times that where posted and even offered to swear on anything you wanted me to.
You claim Microsoft where caught off guard by Neo with no proof. You really think Microsoft wouldn't know about the plans before it was even rumoured on the internet. Even if they didn't you really think Microsoft would not have their own plans that included a new console. Especially when PS4 was selling far better. You have no clue when it comes to business.
The mods on this forum know I only have one account and if that's your only reason for not having an account bet, then we can involve them and make it official.
I'm not saying its Vega, I'm betting you to say you are wrong when you say the Neo and Scorpio will use the same GPU.
You wont bet your account because you are talking shit.
You have no evidence to back up anything you say,
You claim I have multiple accounts with no evidence, I've already proven I was not an account you claimed using the times that where posted and even offered to swear on anything you wanted me to.
You claim Microsoft where caught off guard by Neo with no proof. You really think Microsoft wouldn't know about the plans before it was even rumoured on the internet. Even if they didn't you really think Microsoft would not have their own plans that included a new console. Especially when PS4 was selling far better. You have no clue when it comes to business.
The mods on this forum know I only have one account and if that's your only reason for not having an account bet, then we can involve them and make it official.
I'm not saying its Vega, I'm betting you to say you are wrong when you say the Neo and Scorpio will use the same GPU.
Don't be a chicken shit and have the bet.
1-No unlike you who have TTboy and who knows what more accounts i on the other hand have only this one.
2-Want me to rub all over your face again how you claim shit without any evidence at all.? So on what is your theory based that is not Polaris 10 RX 480.? Because MS didn't confirm GPU at all.
3-No you try to imply that the other account wasn't you because you posted on different times,which can be done by simple posting with 1 account on certain times and posting with another on certain times,either way both of your account which fallow the same MO and have basically the same low post and join date have very low post count and very old join dates.
Not to mention other poster also contested your theory as well.
4-Yes they were you sound like the idiot who claimed that MS would not allow sony to have stronger hardware with the PS4,and we all know how that story went is not about what MS can do or don't is about what sony was doing the biggest proof Neo is say to release this year,Scorpio year 1 year after Neo on a time were GPU stronger than Neo already exist so hardware wasn't the problem as stronger GPU and CPU exist now than the ones found on Neo hardware wasn't the problem.
Again what MS plan was is irrelevant fact is sony was ahead of MS plans,just because some one is outselling your product doesn't mean you have to run fast and release another that is not how business work,and the very fact that sony is ahead of MS when it comes to refresh with Neo releasing probably this year says it all,after all the PS4 is not selling bad like the xbox so what is the excuse for sony to release a stronger one.?
Bullshit hahahahaa if it ins't Vega what other GPU is.? Because the 2 out between now and next year and Polaris 10 RX480 and Vegas ,and that one has 64CU.
But then again user your freaking logic because instead of refuting my argument with something,you basically avoid it.
Why didn't MS use RX480 when it is 5.83TF which basically is spot on with 6TF?
And why MS would get a more expensive and power Vega GPU to water it down to 6TF when the RX480 basically does that stock?
The only reason why is because they have nothing,just specs they were catch offguard again.
@randyoh said:
So Sony ups the Clocking on the Neo and Microsoft just twiddle's their thumbs and doesn't do the same to Scorpio? What a silly thread to make.
Again this depend on what GPU Scorpio has,because the Neo GPU on PC is 5.83TF out of the box without OC,on Neo is downclock all sony has to do is get a good cooling solution and rise the clocks to stock and basically they are toe to toe with scorpio at least flop wise on GPU,some people think Scorpio has a different GPU to Neo but fact is the RX480 on Neo can achieve 6TF and be the GPU inside Scorpio and make more sense than using Vega which is 9+Tf to water it down 3TF to fit Scorpio target.
@EducatingU_PCMR said:
@Scipio8 said:
The damage control by cows is glorious to watch lol
It will soon be over, they're in bargaining stage as you can see now. Just 2 more to go.
The funny thing is that you will have 4 years of inferior ports by the time scorpio arrive and probably 1.5 years after scorpio sony already will have a new model. Basically you will be under far more times than cows,now you can return to your cave where you have being for the pass 2.5 years while the xbox one was getting creamed by the PS4..lol
@Pedro said:
I know you are hurting on the inside but, everything is going to be alright. Just buy a Xbox One S, it will soothe the pain.
No you are hurting after all the PS4 is the most powerful console ever make,while you still waiting for a promise one to release 1.5 years from now...hahahahaaaa
This is great because from here to now you will get quote on every thread DF were the PS4 wins since you let us know that you care for power.
The design of the Neo has been finalized and chances are it will have a oct-dec '16 launch window which means the power and cooling is designed based on the original specs.Overclocking too much can cause issues with noise and failure rates. If the rumored specs are 911mhz at 4.19 TFLOPS. Sony might be able do a slight upclock from the rumored specs if the Neo's design has adequate power and cooling to handle it. Chances are Sony might be able to go from 911mhz to something like 950-975 mhz which shouldn't cause much of an issue. But getting the Neo beyond 5 TFLOPS will need a redesign. Everyone thinking that Sony will get Neo 5.5-6 TFLOP without scraping the plans/design are delusional, and even more so thinking Sony will just because the 6TFLOP target from X 1.5 announcement.
@tormentos: ah I see. Now is this about wanting to get every last bit of power out of Neo or is this a system wars thing and Scorpio having the power advantage is a big no no to you?
Any ways in my opinion it won't happen. I think they are set on Specs and will move forward with what they have. Unless they delay to spring of 2017 which would not be a smart move. Sony needs to cash in on the holiday season spending spree.
El Tormented having another one of his epic meltdowns. Everyone either has alt accounts or is super lem.
No offense, you calling people super cow and such here all the time.
No offense taken but I don't call people super cows that aren't. El Tormented calls anyone that doesn't agree with him super lems or idiot lems. Big difference between what he does.
performance gap between Scorpio and Neo is bigger than that between PS4 and Xbox One.
Apparently there are games on PS4 with a 30fps difference than Xbox One.
With the gap being bigger the performance difference stands to be more.
Its all speculation and time will tell.
Yes but there is also diminishing returns,the more CU you have performance doesn't scale linearly.
Reason why the 7970 doesn't double the 7850 in frames at the same resolution regardless of having double the CU and faster clock speed.
Yes but the xbox one has pitfalls not found on GPU normally,ESRAM DDR3,it make the gap the PS4 has be even more,not to mention MS first tools were not that good as DX12 complete is,alto most of the stuff was there.
At 1080p both will deliver the same results max settings 60FPS,on 1440p the Scorpio should have a nice gap,at 4k probably 15 4k,i say 20 but i was referring to 4k,but now that i look at it again,i think 20FPS in 4k it so much of a gap 15 or 12 may be more in line.
This is Hitman at 4k notice how the Fury X is 10FPS ahead of the R290.? You know how big the gap is between those 2 GPU flop wise.?
The R290 can do like 4.9TF while the Fury is like 8.5 TF we are talking here about close to 4TF in performance of difference yet that translate into 10FPS gap in Hitman at 4k.
Another test see how a close to 4TF difference in compute power translate into a 7 FPS gap between both,people thinking Scorpio will greatly outdo Neo will be in for a shock.
Scorpio's GPU shader FLOPS can scale since it's via clock speed increase i.e. it also speeds up non-shader hardware. Fury X's geometry engine and sync graphics command dispatcher is a copy and paste from Hawaii hence Fury X's problem with scaling i.e. Fury X's higher FLOPS runs into Hawaii's geometry engine or sync graphics command dispatcher wall.
The big difference between Vega 10's 64 CU and Fury X's 64 CU is minimizing glass jaw design issues.
Polaris 10 includes geometry engine or sync graphics command improvements.
Spencer says, developers are usually building a PC version of any given game alongside the Xbox version—and increasingly, that means a 4K version. “When we started looking at Scorpio,” he says, “we asked the partners, ‘in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?’ That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
Also, Phil Spencer's 6 TFLOPS GPU ~= 980 just indirectly confirmed RX-480 1266Mhz 's FireStrike Ultra 1.1 Graphics score. To encapsulate GTX 980 design goals, Polaris 10 must include Maxwell2 style geometry and sync graphics command unit performance levels.
For Vega 10 XT, Polaris 10's normal gaming mode 110 watts 1266Mhz X2... that's about 11.66 TFLOPS not 9 TFLOPS. It's 1080 Ti level. The lesser Vega 10 Pro is against 1080 non-Ti.
Scorpio will not have +300 mm^2 Vega 10 i.e. shown SoC size doesn't support it.
Polaris 10 has improve scaling with clock speed and FLOPS increase.
Scorpio has a GPU solution better than PC's stock RX-480 8 GB with 1266 Mhz GPU clock speed and 256 GB/s memory bandwidth.
I really feel this is totally pointless to argue about something that we have no idea about (Neo). I say wait till they announce it with spec before you guys start shooting each others.. makes more sense!
The design of the Neo has been finalized and chances are it will have a oct-dec '16 launch window which means the power and cooling is designed based on the original specs.Overclocking too much can cause issues with noise and failure rates. If the rumored specs are 911mhz at 4.19 TFLOPS. Sony might be able do a slight upclock from the rumored specs if the Neo's design has adequate power and cooling to handle it. Chances are Sony might be able to go from 911mhz to something like 950-975 mhz which shouldn't cause much of an issue. But getting the Neo beyond 5 TFLOPS will need a redesign. Everyone thinking that Sony will get Neo 5.5-6 TFLOP without scraping the plans/design are delusional, and even more so thinking Sony will just because the 6TFLOP target from X 1.5 announcement.
NEO's non-appearance during the recent E3 could indicate inferiority with their current plans.
NEO's 2.3X factor indicates Sony is following AMD's 2.5X performance per watt guidelines and PS4 cooling levels.
Microsoft seems to have pushed the "Xbox 360" button for the Scorpio project with the correct GPU blower cooling solution.
AMD has recently changed thier 2.5X performance per watt marketing into 2.8X. If you apply 2.6X on 1.84 TFLOPS it yields 4.78 TFLOPS which is ~1030 Mhz.
@tormentos If you are so sure what the GPU is you would have no trouble having me a bet.
Instead you dig old shit about me being TTBoy even though you know I'd have to get up and 3.00-4.00 am to post as him. If you don't believe I'm not so sad lets change the bet to I'm not TTBOY and ask the mods to confirm and when they do you leave these forums and never come back.
Since when does 5.83 = 6
Microsoft haven't said they what GPU is just like Sony haven't confirmed what Neo is using. Microsoft have said they could have released something with a better GPU this year but decided to wait to give a better system. Your response to something you don't like is to call them a liar and to say a billion dollar company don't have a plan.
I'm calling you out cos you simply wont except when someone says they are not something.
I bet you I'm not TTBoy and when you take the bets we can ask mods to check.
Do you agree chichen shit.
You wont cos these forums are your life and you know I'm not him.
El Tormented having another one of his epic meltdowns. Everyone either has alt accounts or is super lem.
NO just trolls like you with low post count and old join dates who appear out of no where to defend nothing but the xbox but then claim to be unbiased..hahahahaa]
@04dcarraher said:
The design of the Neo has been finalized and chances are it will have a oct-dec '16 launch window which means the power and cooling is designed based on the original specs.Overclocking too much can cause issues with noise and failure rates. If the rumored specs are 911mhz at 4.19 TFLOPS. Sony might be able do a slight upclock from the rumored specs if the Neo's design has adequate power and cooling to handle it. Chances are Sony might be able to go from 911mhz to something like 950-975 mhz which shouldn't cause much of an issue. But getting the Neo beyond 5 TFLOPS will need a redesign. Everyone thinking that Sony will get Neo 5.5-6 TFLOP without scraping the plans/design are delusional, and even more so thinking Sony will just because the 6TFLOP target from X 1.5 announcement.
I am sure they can get 1050 mhz without much problems,polaris 10 is not old GCN which was harder to OC and generated more heat,MS OC by 53mhz without problems,and the xbox one runs like 49 degrees celsius while gaming,the PS4 even cooler 44 degrees and the PS4 has an internal PSU which generate more heat inside the unit.
Oh and that would not even count as OC because in reality is not the Neo is some 355mhz under the stock 480,which is to much if you ask me,going by the PS 4 drop Neo should be at least 1012mhz going by the same 20% drop in clock vs stock that the PS4 had.
By the way the leaker who leak Neo also claim that there are multiple sku and that clocks would change,so is on the air the clocks,but i don't see the need really because OC or not scorpio will be faster just not as big gap as some think it will be.
@randyoh said:
@tormentos: ah I see. Now is this about wanting to get every last bit of power out of Neo or is this a system wars thing and Scorpio having the power advantage is a big no no to you?
Any ways in my opinion it won't happen. I think they are set on Specs and will move forward with what they have. Unless they delay to spring of 2017 which would not be a smart move. Sony needs to cash in on the holiday season spending spree.
Lets get this clear,nothing sony do can change the outcome of MS having a more powerful console,is simple MS will release latter and that alone is an advantage for having stronger hardware.
No this is about the Neo GPU and what can really do,because some how people think Scorpio is a whole new beats,when probably it has the same GPU as neo but higher clocked.
I don't think sony will go for even 1.1ghz,but the fact that they can change the cooling system and get more performance is there,the bigger question would be why would they,they are winning and having Neo with 1080p ultra graphics 1 year before Scorpio will hurt MS more than Scorpio will help.
They don't have to delay anything for an up clock,for god sake MS did it without problems and up clocked both the GPU and CPU,there is nothing special about get a little higher clock speed.
@kingtito said:
No offense taken but I don't call people super cows that aren't. El Tormented calls anyone that doesn't agree with him super lems or idiot lems. Big difference between what he does.
No you are a lemming and there is no a hermit or cow probably who doesn't feel that way about you,all you do here is enter threads about the xbox with a huge amount of DC and start flaming people you are a lemming you simple are to dishonest to admit it or to shameful to admit it pick one.
There is no difference as any one who say something bad about the xbox one you tag it as cow,funny things is when an anti PS4 threads show you say shit.
Spencer says, developers are usually building a PC version of any given game alongside the Xbox version—and increasingly, that means a 4K version. “When we started looking at Scorpio,” he says, “we asked the partners, ‘in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?’ That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
Scorpio has a GPU solution better than PC's stock RX-480 8 GB with 1266 Mhz GPU clock speed and 256 GB/s memory bandwidth.
This is the problem with you,you can't see to get when some one is talking shit specially a person like Phil Spencer which works for MS and would say wonders about their product,you have a quote there from him and i can't believe you can't see pass his bullshit.
First of all the 980GTX is not a TRUE 4k high fidelity GPU,unless he is talking about low quality or mixed bag,ultra not even close NOW even less in 2018 or 2019 where games will be much more demanding,if you barely are doing 4k in 2017,on 2019 you will be way under,is like the current xbox which barely was doing 1080p on 2013,and nothing has change to this day,all the contrary,now 900p is like the norm on XBO.
NO Scorpio has a GPU that barely beat the stock RX480,much like they had a GPU that barely beat the 7770 inside the xbox one,and basically the 7770 beat the xbox one on most multiplatforms going 1080p while the xbox one could not.
And your bandwidth argument is totally flawed period fact is DDR3 + the R480 bandwidth = 324GB/s more bandwidth than Scorpio which will share its bandwidth with its CPU as well and which you want to downplay,this is another Ronvalencia blind assumption that ended wrong.
Like DX12,tile resources,and the truck load of crap you use to argue in favor of the xbox one which turned into DUST.
@tdkmillsy said:
@tormentos If you are so sure what the GPU is you would have no trouble having me a bet.
Instead you dig old shit about me being TTBoy even though you know I'd have to get up and 3.00-4.00 am to post as him. If you don't believe I'm not so sad lets change the bet to I'm not TTBOY and ask the mods to confirm and when they do you leave these forums and never come back.
Since when does 5.83 = 6
Microsoft haven't said they what GPU is just like Sony haven't confirmed what Neo is using. Microsoft have said they could have released something with a better GPU this year but decided to wait to give a better system. Your response to something you don't like is to call them a liar and to say a billion dollar company don't have a plan.
I'm calling you out cos you simply wont except when someone says they are not something.
I bet you I'm not TTBoy and when you take the bets we can ask mods to check.
Do you agree chichen shit.
You wont cos these forums are your life and you know I'm not him.
Oh STFU the only reason you are willing to bet your useless account is because you have more than 1,you have a 2003 join date like me,but only has 2011 post,you started to post more regularly on the xbox one reveal and subsequent fight about power,you barely posted here,so was your ttboy account which had similar post but that has being posting less and less since i accuse you of being both account funny isn't?
The way i see it you are so desperate for not seeing me here making you look like a fool that you want without problem to sacrifice an account that you barely use.
5.83TF and 6TF will basically yield the same performance,we are talking about 170Gflos of difference,that would not be enough for 4 frame difference,even more in more capable models like the RX480.
Look at the Fury X 8.6 TF of power,now compare it with the R290 which has 4.9TF of power.
3.7 TF difference between both GPU,yet the gap in performance in 4k is barely 7FPS freaking 7 frames per second.
Fact is the RX480 at 6TF will not be much difference now than next year any GPU MS has with 6TF,the fact alone that you want to pretend that 5.83 is not basically 6TF is a joke,the delta between both numbers is so small is not even funny.
Yes and they also say that they have a cloud with infinite power that make the xbox one 40 times as strong as the xbox 360,we still waiting for it to deliver,we also heard them say 500% increase with DX12 using ashes of singularity developer as speaker,we also saw them downplay the difference between PS4 and xbox one even when games were 720p vs 1080p,we saw them add bandwidth as if it was oranges,MS has done nothing but lie to people every since the whole DRM fiasco.
But some how you want to blindly believe that they are waiting next year to release because this year some how they could not get a fu**ing 6TF GPU to use on their platforms,but next year they will when AMD has a RX480 which is freaking $199 with 5.83TF which is basically 6 freaking TF.
Only a blind biased lemming would believe such shit,fact is MS was catch pants down,is not about the plans they have is about the plans SONY had,no one is saying MS didn't have a plan,but sony plan was ahead of them and before you spew more bullshit,MS had a plan back on 2011 and that plan deliver a weak console with a gimmick while sony without even trying out did them power wise.
Again was sony's plan to beat MS.? Was MS plan to lose the power battle,no companies do plans as they best see to fit,some fail some don't in the XBO case we already know the outcome MS blew it,and while i don't doubt that they had something plan,that plan has nothing to do with sony's plan so if MS plan was deliver something better on 2017,and sony plans was deliver something better in 2016 well that is how things work.
But go as far as to damage control why you would be late,saying you are waiting for something better when already there is something better already is a joke,and MS well damn knows about Polaris 10 just like sony did,is not like AMD talked with MS about it this year,MS was cough off guard and is the reason they had nothing on E3 but specs which can change for better or worse.
Now before you cry more even at current spec the difference between Neo and Scorpio at 4k will not be that great,and i just showed you,how the difference between almost 4TF in compute power between the R290 vs the Fury translate into 7FPS at 4k,the delta between Neo and Scorpio is like 1.8TF or less.
It all depends on the power and cooling overhead they are using.... 139mhz increase from 911mhz can add another 10% or more to the power consumption. a 19% increase clock on 16nm fab will add another 25-30w. Which also produces more heat. Also those consoles X1/PS4 temps are full of bullshit that is all case temps not actual APU temps. "Finally, a measurement is taken of the vents, which come in at 61.6°C.". That is for the PS4....... Which means its at the very least 61C chances are the APU in the PS4 is above 70C at full tilt.
El Tormented having another one of his epic meltdowns. Everyone either has alt accounts or is super lem.
NO just trolls like you with low post count and old join dates who appear out of no where to defend nothing but the xbox but then claim to be unbiased..hahahahaa]
@kingtito said:
No offense taken but I don't call people super cows that aren't. El Tormented calls anyone that doesn't agree with him super lems or idiot lems. Big difference between what he does.
No you are a lemming and there is no a hermit or cow probably who doesn't feel that way about you,all you do here is enter threads about the xbox with a huge amount of DC and start flaming people you are a lemming you simple are to dishonest to admit it or to shameful to admit it pick one.
There is no difference as any one who say something bad about the xbox one you tag it as cow,funny things is when an anti PS4 threads show you say shit.
Which is why people tag you as a bitter lemm..lol
Wouldn't a troll have a high post count tormented? About to have another meltdown? Seems that way
Yeah el Tormented but I don't care what people think of me on here be it a lem, cow, herm, sheep or whatever. Difference is I don't run around calling people lems or cows or idiot simply because they don't agree with me. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is automatically labeled a lem. Oh and yeah I talk about the systems I own and the games I've played, you hahahahaha ummm don't.
Not sure how that's funny. There really is no need to defend Sony or any of it's consoles because we have far more die hard cows doing it already.
Bitter? I own X1, PS4 and gaming PC so what do I have to be bitter about? I play the games I want on the system I choose. It sucks that you don't even play the games on the system you're so blindly fanatical about, sad is more like it.
No go back to your basement and wait for Sony to tell you what to do next.
No you are hurting after all the PS4 is the most powerful console ever make,while you still waiting for a promise one to release 1.5 years from now...hahahahaaaa
This is great because from here to now you will get quote on every thread DF were the PS4 wins since you let us know that you care for power.
Why would I be hurting?The PS4 is right next to my Xbox One. Oh, I get it you are stuck with just one system so you are still trying to justify your purchase. :( You know you can simply buy an Xbox One to ease the pain. Its cheap now, or you can wait on the Slim. There is no need to be bitter, just buy an Xbox. :)
Spencer says, developers are usually building a PC version of any given game alongside the Xbox version—and increasingly, that means a 4K version. “When we started looking at Scorpio,” he says, “we asked the partners, ‘in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?’ That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
Scorpio has a GPU solution better than PC's stock RX-480 8 GB with 1266 Mhz GPU clock speed and 256 GB/s memory bandwidth.
This is the problem with you,you can't see to get when some one is talking shit specially a person like Phil Spencer which works for MS and would say wonders about their product,you have a quote there from him and i can't believe you can't see pass his bullshit.
This is the problem with you i.e. you are ignorant on technical reasons that backs Microsoft's statements. Polaris 10 includes improved geometry/tessellation engines that exceeds Tonga/Hawaii/Fury X.
Try again.
And your bandwidth argument is totally flawed period fact is DDR3 + the R480 bandwidth = 324GB/s more bandwidth than Scorpio which will share its bandwidth with its CPU as well and which you want to downplay,this is another Ronvalencia blind assumption that ended wrong.
What facts? Where did you get 68 GB/s for the CPU?
PS4's 135 GB/s / 176 GB/s = 76.7 percent efficiency (For this case, YOU have forgotten the Onion links)
PS4's memory efficiency is similar to other AMD GPU's memory efficiency numbers. Your argument amounts to effectively nothing.
Applying PS4's efficiency numbers on 321 GB/s. Remember, it's more than 320 GB/s memory bandwidth.
76.7 percent of 321 GB/s = 246 GB/s (For this case, YOU have forgotten the Onion links) During this mode, Scorpio is superior to RX-480.
66 percent of 321 GB/s = 212 GB/s
Applying PS4's efficiency numbers on RX-480X's 256 GB/s i.e. 76.7 percent of 256 GB/s = 194 GB/s
Applying R9-390's efficiency numbers on RX-480X's 256 GB/s i.e. 68 percent of 256 GB/s = 174 GB/s
Polaris has a new memory controller and my efficiency numbers may not apply. My point, disproportion memory bandwidth wastage is minor which is about 10 percent.
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