DA2 OBVIOUSLY held back by the PC

Oh noes, the TC posted a video containing uncensored language :o

End of gamespot as we know it.

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

that makes no sense.... in fact, its the opposite. I enjoy games that aren't pure button mashing. That is why this thread exists.

alfredooo

okay bro, i wasnt the one wishing a rpg was instead a hack n slash

no bro, I never wished that. You completely missed my point. I like RPGs and I like hack and slash.

Its also funny that you think hack and slash = shallow, shows you have no knowledge of the genre.

"DA2 would a deep, fast paced hack and slash game with an above average story" -alfredooo

you made the comment that pc is the reason for shallow rpg elements, which makes no sense as DA was a very traditional rpg, but they changed it into more hack n slash for casual players.

it makes no sense to turn traditional rpg into a hack n slash. its as if someone would turn mario into a fps. you like hack n slash, and all the more power to you, but DA is not one of those titles

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

okay bro, i wasnt the one wishing a rpg was instead a hack n slash

tutt3r

no bro, I never wished that. You completely missed my point. I like RPGs and I like hack and slash.

Its also funny that you think hack and slash = shallow, shows you have no knowledge of the genre.

"DA2 would a deep, fast paced hack and slash game with an above average story" -alfredooo

you made the comment that pc is the reason for shallow rpg elements, which makes no sense as DA was a very traditional rpg, but they changed it into more hack n slash for casual players.

it makes no sense to turn traditional rpg into a hack n slash. its as if someone would turn mario into a fps. you like hack n slash, and all the more power to you, but DA is not one of those titles

Bioware was the one that decided to make it more like a hack n slash, not me. It was fine as an RPG, the first one was a very good game. Bioware decided to go for hack n slash but they couldn't because that doesn't appeal to the PC crowd, so we are stuck with a game that is half a shallow hack n slash and half a shallow RPG.

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

no bro, I never wished that. You completely missed my point. I like RPGs and I like hack and slash.

Its also funny that you think hack and slash = shallow, shows you have no knowledge of the genre.

alfredooo

"DA2 would a deep, fast paced hack and slash game with an above average story" -alfredooo

you made the comment that pc is the reason for shallow rpg elements, which makes no sense as DA was a very traditional rpg, but they changed it into more hack n slash for casual players.

it makes no sense to turn traditional rpg into a hack n slash. its as if someone would turn mario into a fps. you like hack n slash, and all the more power to you, but DA is not one of those titles

Bioware was the one that decided to make it more like a hack n slash, not me. It was fine as an RPG, the first one was a very good game. Bioware decided to go for hack n slash but they couldn't because that doesn't appeal to the PC crowd, so we are stuck with a game that is half a shallow hack n slash and half a shallow RPG.

So what you're saying is that if it wasn't for pc Bioware would have made the game a pure hack and slash? Do you really think Bioware is that dense? Plus I saw that livestreaming video with the lead designer of DA. The game on PC does look good, it does have the strategic part. If you play it on consoles on normal difficulty though it will look like a shallow rpg game.

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

no bro, I never wished that. You completely missed my point. I like RPGs and I like hack and slash.

Its also funny that you think hack and slash = shallow, shows you have no knowledge of the genre.

alfredooo

"DA2 would a deep, fast paced hack and slash game with an above average story" -alfredooo

you made the comment that pc is the reason for shallow rpg elements, which makes no sense as DA was a very traditional rpg, but they changed it into more hack n slash for casual players.

it makes no sense to turn traditional rpg into a hack n slash. its as if someone would turn mario into a fps. you like hack n slash, and all the more power to you, but DA is not one of those titles

Bioware was the one that decided to make it more like a hack n slash, not me. It was fine as an RPG, the first one was a very good game. Bioware decided to go for hack n slash but they couldn't because that doesn't appeal to the PC crowd, so we are stuck with a game that is half a shallow hack n slash and half a shallow RPG.

Prototype was a "hack n slash" action type game and it works fine on the PC. It's too bad its artwork is near mono-color.

Sacred 2 PC is another "hack n slash" RPG type game and it also works fine on the PC.Sacred 2 still has isometric overhead view.

PC can do both hack n'slash and RPGs better than consoles. Dunno what the fuss is all about.

PC can do both hack n'slash and RPGs better than consoles. Dunno what the fuss is all about.

milannoir

Dragon Age is an RPG series. Why are PC gamers "holding it back" by demanding that it be good at what it's supposed to be trying to do?

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="alfredooo"]

The fact that you can use a controller for the PC is irrelevant. Developers have the mouse and keyboard on mind when they make a PC game and that is what affects their final product.

As I said, the fact that they work is irrelevant. What matters is that it affects the development process; Bioware and almost anyone making a PC game will have the mouse and keyboard in mind and NOT the controller in order to appeal to the PC crowd who prefers the M&KB.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Most console ports to the PC runs fine on the PC.ronvalencia

As I said, the fact that they work is irrelevant. What matters is that it affects the development process; Bioware and almost anyone making a PC game will have the mouse and keyboard in mind and NOT the controller in order to appeal to the PC crowd who prefers the M&KB.

I think I'm the third/fourth person in this thread who has asked the following regarding your replies: what does that have to do with my post?

whats DAdaveg1

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="alfredooo"]

As I said, the fact that they work is irrelevant. What matters is that it affects the development process; Bioware and almost anyone making a PC game will have the mouse and keyboard in mind and NOT the controller in order to appeal to the PC crowd who prefers the M&KB.

alfredooo

I think I'm the third/fourth person in this thread who has asked the following regarding your replies: what does that have to do with my post?

You are not factoring the common Xbox 360 and 'Games For Windows' PC's Xinput APIs (middleware).

On technical side, there's nothing special about Tomb Raider type perspective with action modifiers.

A 'Games For Windows' PC game can have two control paths i.e. Xbox 360 way (Xinput APIs) and KB+M (e.g. SendMessage APIs) way.

On KB+M way,
1. Mouse could control character's POV/direction and heading. You have Left, Scroll/Middle, Right buttons. Unused buttons can be used as modifiers.
2. With 101 keys, the keyboard give access to the required actions.
3. The keyboard has at least three key modifiers i.e. Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Caps Lock.

A good PC version would have KB+M configurable.

The lazy way is do a straight port and tell PC user the recommended hardware requirements i.e. Microsoft sells input hardware devices e.g. keyboard, mouse, Xbox 360 controller and soon Kinetic (official PC drivers). It's in Microsoft's interest to sell more Xbox 360 controllers and soon Kinetic to the PC hardware market. PC hardware market is larger than the entire games console hardware market.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Bayonetta Xbox 360 can be directly ported to "Game For Windows" PC i.e. they both use the same MS Xinput APIs.ronvalencia

I think I'm the third/fourth person in this thread who has asked the following regarding your replies: what does that have to do with my post?

You are not factoring the common Xbox 360 and Games For Windows PC's Xinput APIs.

On technical side, there's nothing special about Tomb Raider type perspective with action modifiers.

A "Games For Windows" PC game can have two control paths i.e. Xbox 360 way (Xinput APIs) and KB+M (e.g. SendMessage APIs) way.

On KB+M way,
1. Mouse could control character's POV/direction and heading. You have Left, Scroll/Middle, Right buttons.
2. With 101 keys, the keyboard give access to the required actions.
3. The keyboard has at least three key modifiers i.e. Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Caps Lock.

A good PC version would have KB+M configurable.

The lazy way is do a straight port and tell PC user the recommended hardware requirements e.g. Microsoft sells hardware input devices.

I would love to see someone try to play Ninja Gaiden Black with a keyboard. I really would.

Priceless. Somehow it makes sense. The OP claims that the console gamer is unwlling or incapable to deal with complexity of RPG's.

That's what Bioware claimed too, funny thing is that console gamers never complained about the RPG elements but about the control's.

From the looks of the combat, the game would be probably better as a Ninja Gaiden clone :D

However the action genre is not big enough for them, they want the COD crowd so the game is not held back by PC's but suffers a Fable influence. The next game will probably be the right one for the target audience.

Topic's like this one just give space and excuse to game devs to give the young console gamer the idiot treatment. The targeted gamer is unable to place a check-mark to toggle friendly fire,for example.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

I think I'm the third/fourth person in this thread who has asked the following regarding your replies: what does that have to do with my post?

alfredooo

You are not factoring the common Xbox 360 and Games For Windows PC's Xinput APIs.

On technical side, there's nothing special about Tomb Raider type perspective with action modifiers.

A "Games For Windows" PC game can have two control paths i.e. Xbox 360 way (Xinput APIs) and KB+M (e.g. SendMessage APIs) way.

On KB+M way,
1. Mouse could control character's POV/direction and heading. You have Left, Scroll/Middle, Right buttons.
2. With 101 keys, the keyboard give access to the required actions.
3. The keyboard has at least three key modifiers i.e. Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Caps Lock.

A good PC version would have KB+M configurable.

The lazy way is do a straight port and tell PC user the recommended hardware requirements e.g. Microsoft sells hardware input devices.

I would love to see someone try to play Ninja Gaiden Black with a keyboard. I really would.

Did you miss my "big E" word statement? Control re-map issues would be similar to PS2/PSP(via big E word) games on the PC. You have to watch out for cheap keyboard controllers.The easy way is to connect PS2/PS3 controller or Xbox 360 controller** to the PC. **Xbox 360 controller works out-of-the box.

When using my Sony 46inch LCD or "Games For Windows" PC games, I usually use my Xbox 360 controller with my gaming laptop.

PS; My external Radeon HD 5770 (for my laptop) is now housed in semi-portable box i.e. about same size original PS3's case.

[QUOTE="daveg1"]whats DAspookykid143

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] What does that have to do with my post?

ronvalencia

You haven't defined why keyboard+mouse controls can't be mapped to a Xbox 360 controller and why keyboard+mouse can't have multi-level actions..

Example of a gaming keyboard

My Microsoft Habu mouse has 5 buttons e.g. left, right, middle/scroll, custom 1, custom 2. A PC keyboard has at least 101 keys.

Windows gaming mouse and keyboards can be programmed withmacro input sequencei.e. 1 button that triggers a sequence of inputs. I bet console owners wouldn't like thatnear "cheating"tricks when played against a PC player.

PS; I have wrote DirectInput-to-Xinput API bridge in C++.

1 that trigger a sequence of inputs.

Why does that read like "press one key to perform a combo attack" to me?That really reminds me of a certain difficulty level in Bayonetta,called Very Easy Automatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nkc6GQ-B8

Might as well put an auto-headshot system in console FPS games and then have console shooter dudes claim they have superior controls.

And all those hermits looking down on hack'n'slashs and calling them "shallow" and "casual" must be easily capable of pulling off extreme combos mid-combat and clearing higher difficulties with ease,right?After all,that's just an inferior console genre from inferior consoles.

As for Dragon Age 2,it wouldn't really be a deep hack'n'slash even if it were made on consoles from the get go.It's aiming for mass appeal and masses don't like dem scary combos or combat ferocity any more than they like deep RPG elements.So now we are stuck with something that has nerfed RPG elements due to consolitis,as well as the nerfed combat which is further nerfed due to PCitis.

DA2 is an excellent example of PC gaming holding back the industry. It is clear Bioware was going for something different this time, just watch some gameplay and you will know what I mean, they were clearly going for something different than the previous DA.

Seeing Bioware's aim and knowing their great developing skills and vast resources, if it wasn't for the PC, DA2 would a deep, fast paced hack and slash game with an above average story. But now just look at it.... for it to appeal to the PC crowd they are keeping half-assed RPG elements and in order for the game to be playable with mouse and keyboard they turned it into a mediocre, shallow and slow hack and slash title. Basically instead of being more like Ninja Gaiden or DMC its designed to have a shallow point and click gameplay to appeal to the PC crowd.

alfredooo

RIP Alfredooo....Iantheone

alfredooo's topics are held back by the lack of common sense.

Is this a joke thread?

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

mitu123

8)

TC is a trolling machine. :lol: DA2 "computilized" confirmed?

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

alfredooo

8)

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

alfredooo

8)

thats a gaming pc if your definition of gaming is farmville

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

mitu123

8)

DA2 "computilized" confirmed?

DreamCryotank

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

alfredooo

8)

Well, at least you admitted you don't :lol:

Why does that read like "press one key to perform a combo attack" to me?That really reminds me of a certain difficulty level in Bayonetta,called Very Easy Automatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nkc6GQ-B8

Might as well put an auto-headshot system in console FPS games and then have console shooter dudes claim they have superior controls.

And all those hermits looking down on hack'n'slashs and calling them "shallow" and "casual" must be easily capable of pulling off extreme combos mid-combat and clearing higher difficulties with ease,right?After all,that's just an inferior console genre from inferior consoles.

As for Dragon Age 2,it wouldn't really be a deep hack'n'slash even if it were made on consoles from the get go.It's aiming for mass appeal and masses don't like dem scary combos or combat ferocity any more than they like deep RPG elements.So now we are stuck with something that has nerfed RPG elements due to consolitis,as well as the nerfed combat which is further nerfed due to PCitis.

Sander_RX

Well, Microsoft didn't continue with Xbox 360 Live and Games For Windows Live crossover.

DA2 was not the first Bioware action role-playing game e.g. Jade Empire. The PC port was done by LTI Gray Matter.

Venetica PC/Xbox 360is another action role-playing game. With this game, I preferred keyboard and gaming mouse over Xbox 360 controller. On the PC, it's all about choice.

[QUOTE="Sander_RX"]

Why does that read like "press one key to perform a combo attack" to me?That really reminds me of a certain difficulty level in Bayonetta,called Very Easy Automatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nkc6GQ-B8

Might as well put an auto-headshot system in console FPS games and then have console shooter dudes claim they have superior controls.

And all those hermits looking down on hack'n'slashs and calling them "shallow" and "casual" must be easily capable of pulling off extreme combos mid-combat and clearing higher difficulties with ease,right?After all,that's just an inferior console genre from inferior consoles.

As for Dragon Age 2,it wouldn't really be a deep hack'n'slash even if it were made on consoles from the get go.It's aiming for mass appeal and masses don't like dem scary combos or combat ferocity any more than they like deep RPG elements.So now we are stuck with something that has nerfed RPG elements due to consolitis,as well as the nerfed combat which is further nerfed due to PCitis.

ronvalencia

And we all know how good that game turned out to be. Plus Jade was a hybrid, DA was not. Why change the genre in the middle of the serie?

This thread is ridiculous. DA:O was a PC game, ported into consoles. For DA2 it's the consoles who took the lead.

the trolling is strongh in this onethe-obiwan

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="Sander_RX"]

Why does that read like "press one key to perform a combo attack" to me?That really reminds me of a certain difficulty level in Bayonetta,called Very Easy Automatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nkc6GQ-B8

Might as well put an auto-headshot system in console FPS games and then have console shooter dudes claim they have superior controls.

And all those hermits looking down on hack'n'slashs and calling them "shallow" and "casual" must be easily capable of pulling off extreme combos mid-combat and clearing higher difficulties with ease,right?After all,that's just an inferior console genre from inferior consoles.

As for Dragon Age 2,it wouldn't really be a deep hack'n'slash even if it were made on consoles from the get go.It's aiming for mass appeal and masses don't like dem scary combos or combat ferocity any more than they like deep RPG elements.So now we are stuck with something that has nerfed RPG elements due to consolitis,as well as the nerfed combat which is further nerfed due to PCitis.

edidili

And we all know how good that game turned out to be. Plus Jade was a hybrid, DA was not. Why change the genre in the middle of the serie?

This thread is ridiculous. DA:O was a PC game, ported into consoles. For DA2 it's the consoles who took the lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Empire

The Xbox version of Jade Empire received very positive reviews from most critics. Garnering a 89% from Metacritic, based on 84 reviews, indicating generally favorable reviews. On Game Rankings the game also received an average score of 89%, based on 98 reviews.

It's bad the big-E word is illegal inthis forum.

Hermits don't even need to waste their time with this thread. Obvious trolling is fail trolling.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] DA2 was not the first Bioware action role-playing hybrid game e.g. Jade Empire. The PC port was done by LTI Gray Matter.

ronvalencia

And we all know how good that game turned out to be. Plus Jade was a hybrid, DA was not. Why change the genre in the middle of the serie?

This thread is ridiculous. DA:O was a PC game, ported into consoles. For DA2 it's the consoles who took the lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Empire

The Xbox version of Jade Empire received very positive reviews from most critics. Garnering a 89% from Metacritic, based on 84 reviews, indicating generally favorable reviews. On Game Rankings the game also received an average score of 89%, based on 98 reviews.

Don't bring wikis at me. I know very well how jade played and what impact it made. As I said before, Jade was action rpg from the get go, DA was not. You can't just change the genre in the middle of the serie.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

And we all know how good that game turned out to be. Plus Jade was a hybrid, DA was not. Why change the genre in the middle of the serie?

This thread is ridiculous. DA:O was a PC game, ported into consoles. For DA2 it's the consoles who took the lead.

edidili

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Empire

The Xbox version of Jade Empire received very positive reviews from most critics. Garnering a 89% from Metacritic, based on 84 reviews, indicating generally favorable reviews. On Game Rankings the game also received an average score of 89%, based on 98 reviews.

Don't bring wikis at me. I know very well how jade played and what impact it made. As I said before, Jade was action rpg from the get go, DA was not. You can't just change the genre in the middle of the serie.

It's up to Bioware to change THIER game. You either buy it or don't buy it.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Off Topic: TC, do you own a gaming PC?

On topic: Nope, consoles held it back in everything, mainly graphics and controls.

coreybg

8)

Well, at least you admitted you don't :lol:

dude, where do you think I'm writing this from? I own a PC. I'm a PC gamer. Deal with it. If you don't believe me and want to talk about the games I run, then I'm open to talk about it. 8)

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Empire

The Xbox version of Jade Empire received very positive reviews from most critics. Garnering a 89% from Metacritic, based on 84 reviews, indicating generally favorable reviews. On Game Rankings the game also received an average score of 89%, based on 98 reviews.

ronvalencia

Don't bring wikis at me. I know very well how jade played and what impact it made. As I said before, Jade was action rpg from the get go, DA was not. You can't just change the genre in the middle of the serie.

It's up to Bioware to change THIER game. You either buy it or don't buy it.

That is kinda obvious isn't it? No need to say it. Is just a forum, where peoples share their opinions.

[QUOTE="coreybg"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"] check out my sig

8)

alfredooo

Well, at least you admitted you don't :lol:

dude, where do you think I'm writing this from? I own a PC. I'm a PC gamer. Deal with it. If you don't believe me and want to talk about the games I run, then I'm open to talk about it. 8)

Intel defines gaming PCs with "DX10+ discrete graphics cards".

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="coreybg"]

Well, at least you admitted you don't :lol:

ronvalencia

dude, where do you think I'm writing this from? I own a PC. I'm a PC gamer. Deal with it. If you don't believe me and want to talk about the games I run, then I'm open to talk about it. 8)

Intel defines gaming PCs with "DX10+ discrete graphics cards".

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

dude, where do you think I'm writing this from? I own a PC. I'm a PC gamer. Deal with it. If you don't believe me and want to talk about the games I run, then I'm open to talk about it. 8)

alfredooo

Intel defines gaming PCs with "DX10+ discrete graphics cards".

On gaming workloads, you can have an expensive Intel Core i7 Sandybridge Extreme edition + Intel IGP which can be blown away by a cheap AMD Athlon II X4 + AMD Radeon HD 5670(400 SPU) combo.

PS; Intel's comments will be invalid with AMD Llano i.e. AMD Athlon II+/Phenom II+ X4 Mobile + AMD Radeon HD 6620 Mobile (480 SPU) single-chip fusion.

AMD Llano will beat XCGPU fusion in Xbox 360 Slim.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Read http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/

Intel defines gaming PCs with "DX10+ discrete graphics cards".

ronvalencia

On gaming workloads, you can have an expensive Intel Core i7 Sandybridge Extreme edition + Intel IGP which can be blown away by a cheap AMD Athlon II X4 + AMD Radeon HD 5670(400 SPU) combo.

PS; Intel's comments will be invalid with AMD Llano i.e. AMD Athlon II+/Phenom II+ X4 Mobile + AMD Radeon HD 6620 Mobile (480 SPU) single-chip fusion.

AMD Llano will beat XCGPU fusion in Xbox 360 Slim.

I don't see what that's got to do with anything. Anyways, I'm PC gamer, that's a fact.