Destructoid can't be serious...

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

[QUOTE="Robbazking"] So if someone modify his console to play pirated games. Do that mean he had bought the game if he didn't modify it? Most likely not. Nothing gained & nothing lost. Sure pc gaming is easier to pirate to but all the **** article blah blah amounts of games downloaded resulted in blah blah loss of money is just a load of ****

ChubbyGuy40

I don't doubt that some forms of piracy are harmless economically.

But if the pirated game in question doesn't work as well as, say, the retail version, then you've gotta deal with word of mouth and such.

Take HL2, for example. Some German guy got his hands on the source code of HL2 awhile before release. It was a buggy mess, and as a result, word of mouth spread and many people decided not to buy the game, which did result in lost sales, no matter how much damage control Valve did.

Not to mention many people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't deny people don't do that.

So, yes. Pirating does mean lost money.

Didn't HL2 end up selling like 10+ million copies? Where was the lost money in that? If anything it promoted the game, not drove people away from it.

Guess all console gamers pirate too.

Right, so if a buggy, half-arsed game is leaked before release, that makes people want to buy it?

And where the hell did "Guess all console gamers pirate too" come from?

I'm not making generalizations. I'm just saying that PC AND CONSOLE PIRACY does result in economic loss, especially on the PC.

Again, some people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't doubt that.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

I don't doubt that some forms of piracy are harmless economically.

But if the pirated game in question doesn't work as well as, say, the retail version, then you've gotta deal with word of mouth and such.

Take HL2, for example. Some German guy got his hands on the source code of HL2 awhile before release. It was a buggy mess, and as a result, word of mouth spread and many people decided not to buy the game, which did result in lost sales, no matter how much damage control Valve did.

Not to mention many people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't deny people don't do that.

So, yes. Pirating does mean lost money.

KillerWabbit23

Didn't HL2 end up selling like 10+ million copies? Where was the lost money in that? If anything it promoted the game, not drove people away from it.

Guess all console gamers pirate too.

Right, so if a buggy, half-arsed game is leaked before release, that makes people want to buy it?

And where the hell did "Guess all console gamers pirate too" come from?

I'm not making generalizations. I'm just saying that PC AND CONSOLE PIRACY does result in economic loss, especially on the PC.

Again, some people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't doubt that.

Buggy, INCOMPLETE games shows footage and word gets out. More you hear about it the more you want it. Thats just how things work. It was free publicity for Valve. Why would it drive people away from it? Give me a single, logical reason why people would be driven AWAY from it.

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

[QUOTE="Robbazking"] So if someone modify his console to play pirated games. Do that mean he had bought the game if he didn't modify it? Most likely not. Nothing gained & nothing lost. Sure pc gaming is easier to pirate to but all the **** article blah blah amounts of games downloaded resulted in blah blah loss of money is just a load of ****

ChubbyGuy40

I don't doubt that some forms of piracy are harmless economically.

But if the pirated game in question doesn't work as well as, say, the retail version, then you've gotta deal with word of mouth and such.

Take HL2, for example. Some German guy got his hands on the source code of HL2 awhile before release. It was a buggy mess, and as a result, word of mouth spread and many people decided not to buy the game, which did result in lost sales, no matter how much damage control Valve did.

Not to mention many people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't deny people don't do that.

So, yes. Pirating does mean lost money.

Didn't HL2 end up selling like 10+ million copies? Where was the lost money in that? If anything it promoted the game, not drove people away from it.

Guess all console gamers pirate too.

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Didn't HL2 end up selling like 10+ million copies? Where was the lost money in that? If anything it promoted the game, not drove people away from it.

Guess all console gamers pirate too.

ChubbyGuy40

Right, so if a buggy, half-arsed game is leaked before release, that makes people want to buy it?

And where the hell did "Guess all console gamers pirate too" come from?

I'm not making generalizations. I'm just saying that PC AND CONSOLE PIRACY does result in economic loss, especially on the PC.

Again, some people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't doubt that.

Buggy, INCOMPLETE games shows footage and word gets out. More you hear about it the more you want it. Thats just how things work. It was free publicity for Valve. Why would it drive people away from it? Give me a single, logical reason why people would be driven AWAY from it.

If you played a really crappy demo, would you want the full game?

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

Right, so if a buggy, half-arsed game is leaked before release, that makes people want to buy it?

And where the hell did "Guess all console gamers pirate too" come from?

I'm not making generalizations. I'm just saying that PC AND CONSOLE PIRACY does result in economic loss, especially on the PC.

Again, some people just take the lazy route and pirate a game instead of buying it. You can't doubt that.

KillerWabbit23

Buggy, INCOMPLETE games shows footage and word gets out. More you hear about it the more you want it. Thats just how things work. It was free publicity for Valve. Why would it drive people away from it? Give me a single, logical reason why people would be driven AWAY from it.

If you played a really crappy demo, would you want the full game?

Depends on if you could even get the game working or not. The leaked build wasn't even stable or playable for that matter. A lot of measures were taken to get it working.

Your HL2 example doesn't fit here. Incomplete build is not a demo. Mostly because its unplayable.

Man, do people love bringing consoles into these conversations. "Piracy on the PC is a major problem... oh wait no it's not because it happens on consoles too!" Beyond the fact that logic is obnoxious, it's basically a non-point.babyeatermax

No one said it wasn't, but all the blame goes solely towards PC. When it happens with consoles everyone turns a f'ing blind eye to it while putting their fingers in their ears going LALALALA CANT HEAR YOU.

Incomplete, extremely buggy build of Crysis 2 gets leaked internally. LETS BLAME THE PIRATES FOR PC GAMING DYING. Full, complete game that you can play both SP and MP gets leaked on consoles and not a damn word gets mentioned.

Man, do people love bringing consoles into these conversations. "Piracy on the PC is a major problem... oh wait no it's not because it happens on consoles too!" Beyond the fact that logic is obnoxious, it's basically a non-point.babyeatermax

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

[QUOTE="KillerWabbit23"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Buggy, INCOMPLETE games shows footage and word gets out. More you hear about it the more you want it. Thats just how things work. It was free publicity for Valve. Why would it drive people away from it? Give me a single, logical reason why people would be driven AWAY from it.

ChubbyGuy40

If you played a really crappy demo, would you want the full game?

Depends on if you could even get the game working or not. The leaked build wasn't even stable or playable for that matter. A lot of measures were taken to get it working.

Your HL2 example doesn't fit here. Incomplete build is not a demo. Mostly because its unplayable.

From what I remember, it was playable, just a buggy mess.

Still doesn't change the fact that piracy is unjustifiable.

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]Man, do people love bringing consoles into these conversations. "Piracy on the PC is a major problem... oh wait no it's not because it happens on consoles too!" Beyond the fact that logic is obnoxious, it's basically a non-point.alfredooo

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

Seconded.

This post was brought to you by the "This Is Not A One Word Post" Association (TINAOWPA).

That^

[QUOTE="Funconsole"]You have to admit that's true thoughJebus213

Would you buy a game that was 1/4th the content and quality of the previous?

Would you pay more for less?

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]Man, do people love bringing consoles into these conversations. "Piracy on the PC is a major problem... oh wait no it's not because it happens on consoles too!" Beyond the fact that logic is obnoxious, it's basically a non-point.ChubbyGuy40

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

That logic makes absolutely no sense.

People buy used copies because a new one is more expensive. New game at release = $60. Used game months later = $20. Someone who couldn't afford to buy it on release ibuys it used at a later date.

That's how the used game market works. Of course, it does attribute to much larger losses on crap games that people want to sell back a weekend after buying them. A good game will be kept longer by people and that causes less losses from used sales. So also developers have a way to combat the used games market, it's called "making good games with replay value".

Now pirates? They may be able to afford the game on release, but they can just download it for free from a torrent site. That is a loss regardless of game quality which developers have almost no control over.

And no, console piracy is not easier. Just no, dude. Contacting some dude on Craigslist to get it working for $20 is not easier than going to a torrent downloading the files, extracting them, mounting a mirror image and clicking "install". It would literally take almost the same as actually going to Steam to pay for legit dl.

Are people still suggesting that piracy != lost sale?

LOL

As long as this argument floats around we are deluding ourselves. Pirates should have their hands lopped off Singapore style.

Oh how I love you so Jim Sterling.

:3

:P

I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. jedikevin2

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. alfredooo

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

eh? Are you judging this because you believe pirate copy = lost profit? Secondly, I would go as far to say many consoles these days are just as pirate friendly as Pc now. Just nature of the times we live in. Thats my opinion though. To each his own.

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. alfredooo

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. jedikevin2

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

eh? Are you judging this because you believe pirate copy = lost profit? Secondly, I would go as far to say many consoles these days are just as pirate friendly as Pc now. Just nature of the times we live in. Thats my opinion though. To each his own.

I didn't say that every pirated copy is a lost sale (also see my above post) but do a lot of pirated copies mean lost sales? sadly, yes. there is no way around this.

Now about pc being as pirate friendly as consoles I would like to know why you think that's the case. I explained in my above post, it is still miles easier than on consoles so common sense tells me it would be more prevalent there.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. Captain__Tripps

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

It totally could. I'm open to that, but as I said making good games with replay value already combats the used market on their own. If anything, the used market stops a lot of devs from releasing 4 hour games with no replay value.

I didn't say that every pirated copy is a lost sale (also see my above post) but do a lot of pirated copies mean lost sales? sadly, yes. there is no way around this.

Now about pc being as pirate friendly as consoles I would like to know why you think that's the case. I explained in my above post, it is still miles easier than on consoles so common sense tells me it would be more prevalent there.

alfredooo

To explain why I think that is the case would come really close to violating gamespots ToU but in general, what a Pc "pirate" would need to do would work almost exactly as what a console "pirate" would need to do. Common sense tell me that piracy is very much nuetral in that regard on all platforms.

You know it's old when I have already seen it.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

alfredooo

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

That logic makes absolutely no sense.

People buy used copies because a new one is more expensive. New game at release = $60. Used game months later = $20. Someone who couldn't afford to buy it on release ibuys it used at a later date.

That's how the used game market works. Of course, it does attribute to much larger losses on crap games that people want to sell back a weekend after buying them. A good game will be kept longer by people and that causes less losses from used sales. So also developers have a way to combat the used games market, it's called "making good games with replay value".

Now pirates? They may be able to afford the game on release, but they can just download it for free from a torrent site. That is a loss regardless of game quality which developers have almost no control over.

And no, console piracy is not easier. Just no, dude. Contacting some dude on Craigslist to get it working for $20 is not easier than going to a torrent downloading the files, extracting them, mounting a mirror image and clicking "install". It would literally take almost the same as actually going to Steam to pay for legit dl.

Doesn't matter why they buy it. Developers still see no money from that sale. They decided to save money and go with a cheaper alternative. Too bad their actions negatively affect developers.

Doesn't matter how good a game is. You can't guarentee its gonna be kept. Pllus used games are just one copy passed around. Another copy isn't being generated. Its every bit as bad (for the developers) as pirating.

Pay 20 bucks to have someone else do it and already has everything downloaded which he can then just give me copies of? Hell yes thats easier.

And lets see those numbers, sources, and facts that piracy on consoles doesn't cause as much loses. Oh thats right, you have zero. PC games are a lot cheaper to develop. Far easier to make your money back especially if you go digital download.

I seem to remember all these argument about piracy killing PC gaming last gen, now it's stronger than ever. DD is the future of gaming and guess what the lead platform of that kind of dispersal? PC. HoolaHoopMan

People arguing with this guy are crazy, and half life 2 and crysis 2 are perfect examples. It's a shear lack of disrespect, as if they entitled to their hard work, and more importantly, it's cutting into their salaries. You think these games are cheap? It drives down sales and is leaves a bad taste in the public's mouths, too. Who wouldn't want move their product onto a bigger market after a "loyal fan base" reacts like that.TruestGamer

Half Lifle 2 isn't a horrible console port though. Its the best selling FPS on PC of all time and Crysis 2 had a chance if Crytek didn't sell out to consoles.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

ChubbyGuy40

That logic makes absolutely no sense.

People buy used copies because a new one is more expensive. New game at release = $60. Used game months later = $20. Someone who couldn't afford to buy it on release ibuys it used at a later date.

That's how the used game market works. Of course, it does attribute to much larger losses on crap games that people want to sell back a weekend after buying them. A good game will be kept longer by people and that causes less losses from used sales. So also developers have a way to combat the used games market, it's called "making good games with replay value".

Now pirates? They may be able to afford the game on release, but they can just download it for free from a torrent site. That is a loss regardless of game quality which developers have almost no control over.

And no, console piracy is not easier. Just no, dude. Contacting some dude on Craigslist to get it working for $20 is not easier than going to a torrent downloading the files, extracting them, mounting a mirror image and clicking "install". It would literally take almost the same as actually going to Steam to pay for legit dl.

Doesn't matter why they buy it. Developers still see no money from that sale. They decided to save money and go with a cheaper alternative. Too bad their actions negatively affect developers.

Doesn't matter how good a game is. You can't guarentee its gonna be kept. Pllus used games are just one copy passed around. Another copy isn't being generated.Its every bit as bad (for the developers) as pirating.

Pay 20 bucks to have someone else do it and already has everything downloaded which he can then just give me copies of? Hell yes thats easier.

And lets see those numbers, sources, and facts that piracy on consoles doesn't cause as much loses. Oh thats right, you have zero. PC games are a lot cheaper to develop. Far easier to make your money back especially if you go digital download.

Of course I can't guarantee that for every copy, don't be silly. But replay value and quality reduce the percentage of copies that are resold = fact. Developers can go around used game sales by making something worth replaying. What can they do to pirates? Improve the security I guess? but it sucks when developers spend resources on that instead of focusing on making quality games. Used games can push developers to the right place, pirates mostly in the wrong by taking resources away from the actual game making. So it's not the same in that department.

Also, I have no links but I can use logic:

Pirated gaming on PC = free

Pirated gaming on consoles = not free

free = even more of an incentive, attracts a larger percentage.

Contacting guy and paying $20 is way more of a hassle than a few extra clicks on the comfort of my chair. PC is a more pirate friendly platform, end of story.

Funny story, where I grew up most people gamed on pirated consoles, there was one guy in my school who actually bought legit copies and everyone made fun of him: "why u paying $55 for case and manual? lololololol" (now that manuals are crap more like $55 for a case, amirite?) The bottom line is a lot of them couldn't afford gaming otherwise but I know for a fact plenty of could have so it's always funny when people try to claim piracy doesn't equal losses. Certainly not every pirated copy is a loss, but sadly, a lot of them do.

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

That^

[QUOTE="Funconsole"]You have to admit that's true thoughLOXO7

Would you buy a game that was 1/4th the content and quality of the previous?

Would you pay more for less?

Crysis 2 and other console ports arent worth a damn cent.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]I'm lolling so much right now.. Another case of someone trying to look at pc gaming in a negative connotation and turn a blind eye to anything else? Piracy is rampant on ALL platforms. Why do people act like PC piracy is so special to anything else? Piracy is horrible on every system. If the article replaced Pc with consoles, the exact same kind of arguments could be made. Captain__Tripps

piracy doesn't cause as much losses on consoles as it does on Pc. this is because sadly, pc is naturally a more pirate friendly platform.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

That logic makes absolutely no sense.

People buy used copies because a new one is more expensive. New game at release = $60. Used game months later = $20. Someone who couldn't afford to buy it on release ibuys it used at a later date.

That's how the used game market works. Of course, it does attribute to much larger losses on crap games that people want to sell back a weekend after buying them. A good game will be kept longer by people and that causes less losses from used sales. So also developers have a way to combat the used games market, it's called "making good games with replay value".

Now pirates? They may be able to afford the game on release, but they can just download it for free from a torrent site. That is a loss regardless of game quality which developers have almost no control over.

And no, console piracy is not easier. Just no, dude. Contacting some dude on Craigslist to get it working for $20 is not easier than going to a torrent downloading the files, extracting them, mounting a mirror image and clicking "install". It would literally take almost the same as actually going to Steam to pay for legit dl.

alfredooo

Doesn't matter why they buy it. Developers still see no money from that sale. They decided to save money and go with a cheaper alternative. Too bad their actions negatively affect developers.

Doesn't matter how good a game is. You can't guarentee its gonna be kept. Pllus used games are just one copy passed around. Another copy isn't being generated.Its every bit as bad (for the developers) as pirating.

Pay 20 bucks to have someone else do it and already has everything downloaded which he can then just give me copies of? Hell yes thats easier.

And lets see those numbers, sources, and facts that piracy on consoles doesn't cause as much loses. Oh thats right, you have zero. PC games are a lot cheaper to develop. Far easier to make your money back especially if you go digital download.

Of course I can't guarantee that for every copy, don't be silly. But replay value and quality reduce the percentage of copies that are resold = fact. Developers can go around used game sales by making something worth replaying. What can they do to pirates? Improve the security I guess? but it sucks when developers spend resources on that instead of focusing on making quality games. Used games can push developers to the right place, pirates mostly in the wrong by taking resources away from the actual game making. So it's not the same in that department.

Also, I have no links but I can use logic:

Pirated gaming on PC = free

Pirated gaming on consoles = not free

free = even more of an incentive, attracts a larger percentage.

Contacting guy and paying $20 is way more of a hassle than a few extra clicks on the comfort of my chair. PC is a more pirate friendly platform, end of story.

Funny story, where I grew up most people gamed on pirated consoles, there was one guy in my school who actually bought legit copies and everyone made fun of him: "why u paying $55 for case and manual? lololololol" (now that manuals are crap more like $55 for a case, amirite?) The bottom line is a lot of them couldn't afford gaming otherwise but I know for a fact plenty of could have so it's always funny when people try to claim piracy doesn't equal losses. Certainly not every pirated copy is a loss, but sadly, a lot of them do.

Destructoid is the Charlie Sheen of the gaming world.

Jim Sterling...gg.

That^

[QUOTE="Funconsole"]You have to admit that's true thoughJebus213

Would you buy a game that was 1/4th the content and quality of the previous?

Would you pay more for less?

No, I'd wait for a the price to drop to what I'm willing to pay for it, which is the way that markets work. Supply vs. Demand, not privildged thieves vs. business that doesn't cater to their every whim.

Every thing in that article is spot on. If someone pirates, they are part of the problem the publishers are talking about, and they have no leg to stand on in crying about the lack of PC centric games. Any PC gamer that doesn't pirate should probably be more pissed at these people than anyone else, as their hobby is the one being hit by the problem.

I support DRM, as no legitimate buyer hs any reason to complain about it. As long as DRM allows for transfer to a new device it should be all good.

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]Man, do people love bringing consoles into these conversations. "Piracy on the PC is a major problem... oh wait no it's not because it happens on consoles too!" Beyond the fact that logic is obnoxious, it's basically a non-point.ChubbyGuy40

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

Are you honestly claiming that going on Craigslist, going to the trouble of finding someone who will do that, grabbing your hardware, physically hauling it to his house (or having him come to yours) the PAYING him $20 bucks to upload pirated games is just as easy as clicking a link on a torrent site, downloading, then installing? Are you joking? It's an immense hassle in comparison.

What is easier again?

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

Rekunta

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

Are you honestly claiming that going on Craigslist, going to the trouble of finding someone who will do that, grabbing your hardware, physically hauling it to his house (or having him come to yours) the PAYING him $20 bucks to upload pirated games is just as easy as clicking a link on a torrent site, downloading, then installing? Are you joking? It's an immense hassle in comparison.

What is easier again?

You have to admit that's true thoughFunconsole

it was a pretty bad console port, so rev up them torrents!

Sterling is a troll. Ive stopped reading anything by him to be honest.

I just stared at that pirate girl for a few minutes.

[QUOTE="Rekunta"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

HuusAsking

Are you honestly claiming that going on Craigslist, going to the trouble of finding someone who will do that, grabbing your hardware, physically hauling it to his house (or having him come to yours) the PAYING him $20 bucks to upload pirated games is just as easy as clicking a link on a torrent site, downloading, then installing? Are you joking? It's an immense hassle in comparison.

What is easier again?

and the guy on craigslist could be a serial rapist :P

seriously, we can't go into detail but there is clear ways to use torrents safely and to know whether they work before dl.

might as well discredit all the great pc modding communities with that same logic.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="alfredooo"]

Agreed.

Also, PC gamers like to cite the fact that pirated console versions of games are released before PC versions. This proves nothing as what really matters is the degree to which it is downloaded and used not the date at which it was released. We all know pirating PC games is much easier than consoles, where you pretty much need to mod it to make it work. PC is a more pirate-friendly platform. It attracts more piracy and developers lose more money because of it. Yet for some reason the PC crowd refuses to accept this.

Rekunta

Pirated copy =/= lost sale. Used copy = lost sale. Only possible on consoles. U MAD!?

Its just as easy to pirate on consoles. Load up an SD card with required files, throw it in your PS3/Wii, and your done! Load up your external or DVDs with pirated games. You can find some dude on craigslist who'll load everything on your 360 for like 20 bucks plus some games. Thats even easier. Theres even no installing or wondering if your system can handle it. What is easier again? And what can be more pirate friendly when your security for games is all the same, yet you must change it (Or go in the right direction and completely ignore any kind of DRM) for every PC game.

Are you honestly claiming that going on Craigslist, going to the trouble of finding someone who will do that, grabbing your hardware, physically hauling it to his house (or having him come to yours) the PAYING him $20 bucks to upload pirated games is just as easy as clicking a link on a torrent site, downloading, then installing? Are you joking? It's an immense hassle in comparison.

What is easier again?

He still has a point about just loading games on sd cards and pirated copy =/= lost sale while used copy= lost sale. Despite what you think is legitimate or not, to developers used game sales are as bad as piracy if not worse.

He still has a point about just loading games on sd cards and pirated copy =/= lost sale while used copy= lost sale. Despite what you think is legitimate or not, to developers used game sales are as bad as piracy if not worse.

NanoMan88

he has no point. saying all use games = lost sales yet pirated games =/= lost sale makes no sense. Lots of people buy used games at a later date because they can't afford it new at release. If you have no money, buying a used game for $10 months after release is the way to go. That is in no way a lost sale.... you have no money, you couldnt afford the $60 for a new copy. :|

how in the world are all used game sales a loss, yet pirated copies are not? just makes no sense.

Also, if anything the ability to be able to sell the game later migh encourage some people to buy the game new at full price. Pay $60 on day one, sell for $20 a month later. You paid $40. That's an incentive for people to buy new.c

Piracy pushes developers to waste resources on security measures. Used games push developers to make better games.

I think people are missing the point. Piracy DOES harm the PC gaming community. Developers see it as an evil. They see potentially lost sales. So they try to prevent that by adding DRM. PC gamers get indignant because DRM is inherently wrong, and rightfully so because many PC gamers are not pirates. So developers still seeing piracy as hurting their bottom line on PC only titles decide to go multiplatform. We see the consolification of games that were once great. And in the end, that is causing harm to the community. There really is no getting around that. You may argue that piracy does not equal a lost sale or that it's not wrong and blah blah blah. But can you seriously argue that piracy has done no damage to the PC community?