Devs React to DX 12 Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed

Try again you bumbling buffoon. Do you see anything Xbox related here?

like yourself? yeah that soiftware update will improve the crappy xbone hardware and turn it into a nasa supercomputah

HA HA HA!!! Again, you prove that you know nothing about me... or anything else for that matter. Christ, you can't even properly define what my opinion on the matter is because you are too preoccupied with try to come up with a quick insult.

You just consistently reaffirm my opinion of you...

The hardware is the hardware....nothing is going to make it better unless you rip it out and rebuild it like you do with computers.

Facts on the hardware would suggest that it actually is 50% whether or not that will turn up in games is irrelevant. The numbers are there and the PS4 has quite a lot of GPU advantages. MS is saying an API will magically make weaker hardware sing better than superior hardware, not to mention the PS4 API could(and probably will) mature while Xb1 slowly gets DX12. Saying Xb1 is catching up suggests the PS4 is standing still which is probably not the case. The crew is that because of parity and it's bad news for PC and PS4 owners that Ubi are having to implement parity for this game because of the Xbone. Hell it's an online only game, shouldn't the cloud be making the Xb1 version 1080p60fps? Hmm.

well in all fairness, it's not out yet. The idea of making hardware more powerful through software is normal. well i doubt it would make a GPU 100% more powerful, i wouldn't put ti past a 10% or so by lessening the strain from the OS and/or kinect. And also they make it more efficient. neither the PS4 or X1's GPU is running at 100% efficiency. he idea of directX/openGL updates is to get that number as close to 100% as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if both consoles are running at 50 or less % efficiency. That's why games get better over time. That is why halo 4 looks so much better then halo 3 and TLOU looks better then UC2. Its reasonable to believe they could double the performance they are getting now via increasing efficiency and decreasing outside resources usage of the hardware. To put it in perspective, in a car, the governor is in place to restrict the engine and the ECM controls the fuel flow air flow etc. By making changes in the ECM you can get more power out of the hardware of the car. Then by removing weight such as spare tires, back seat, stereo etc you actually get more boos tin performance as well.

i went to narnia once, never touched shrooms after that i can tell ya,lol

Thats not a question that can be answered because this is the first console to actually have it's DX updated, both the Original Xbox and the 360 never had DX updates, they used the same DX from start to finish.

What facts? it was some stupid dev that said the Ps4 was 50% FASTER not 50% more powerful and you obviously read the specs wrong because if you go by the specs the Ps4 is about 30% more powerful, NOT 50%

Gonna need some serious sources for that bolded because that sounds like tales from your ass, again the PR has worked on you.

I have a logical understanding of it and by your theory the PS4 will keep the gap open because it will optimise to work more efficiently just like the bone will and possibly widen it by taking full advantage of GPGPU which it was designed for and more capable at doing than the bone.

You are correct, a dev said it, but wouldn't put it passed MS in agreeing with him, judging by what some of the execs have gone on record in saying. Especially Albert P.

Yes you're right ubi didn't use it, why not? Isn't that one of the main features of the console? It's damn cloud powered, son. No excuse, it's an online only(even he single player!) game should be using it for offloading and making the gaming world more diverse and living like it's meant to. Why is it normal? Lol a deadline excuse? Are you kidding..? Any more excuses for MS you want to get off you chest? Devs have to diplomatic, especially if they're multiplatform so I doubt you'll catch any dev that's not anonymous go on record to the press saying that the PS4 could do 60fps and the bone couldn't as 1: it would piss off MS as that's bad press for them 2: they're be an outrage as to why they're not doing it from PS4 owners. Plus parity also affects the PC version, so another faction unhappy with the Xbone being the anchor.

That is simply not true.

Not better, more efficient, when the Ps3 first released Multiplatform games really did look like crap on the Ps becasue developers had less useable RAM due to a bloated OS, Once SONY dropped the OS overhead and gave developers back more RAM then Multiplatfom games looked identical.

http://www.dailytech.com/Sony+Shrinks+PS3+OS+Gives+Devs+70MB+of+Extra+Memory/article17775.htm

The xbox 360 always had more useable RAM than the PS3 because it's OS is locked at 32MB.

Software can definitly improve the performance of hardware.

Obviously the Xbone will not catch up to the PS4 in terms of Power but DX12 WILL increase the performance of the XB1, especially if it was actually Written with the XB1 in mind.

Theres no question as to whether DX12 gives the xbone increased performance the only question is how much of an increase.

@misterpmedia: you actually think sony uses gpgpu better than the people who invented direct compute? Come on you have been smelling too much cow shit that methane is killing the ozone.

MS has NEVER shown themselves to be good an efficient programming, on their CPU code, or GPU code. They are decent at producing user friend and versatile tools, but efficiency has never been their strong suit.

Is that your way of getting out of losing the argument? Fair play you can take the low road, I'll take the high. I guess you had nothing worth saying after all. Don't be surprised by the reply you're getting. Next time be an 'adult', grow some balls and post it. I haven't given one excuse so far, not quite sure what angle you were going for there. I will keep on playing on my PS4, thank you, didn't need instructions to do so but ...you know. Never questioned your happiness with your Xbone, don't think anyone did. You hate lying to prove a point? No wonder you copped out on posting your 'adult grade' post, you lied in your previous comment about the PS4 to prove your point. Now look who's the hypocrite. Be on your way.

It sounds like it's the first time software has improved on consoles and PC, and that MS is the first and only to do it. Sony has some very skilled people on they're ICE team, and they did amazing stuff with the difficult architecture in the PS3. Now, of course DirectX and other sofware are going to improve later on and help out the Xone, but the same improvements will happen on the PS4. The similarities between the Xone and the PS3 last gen is that both architectures are difficult to utilize (though the PS3 was a nightmare in comparison), but it ends there. The big difference is the power, which last gen was close with a slight edge to the PS3. Now, the numbers that tells us how powerfull a gaming system is, is 50% higher on the PS4 compared to the Xone, and there is no Cell type processor not being utilized, it's just some cache memory. So no matter what MS does, they will for the most part have the worst multiplats.

And Cloud processing isn't exclusive to MS either. Sony could implement the same thing, it isn't dependent on some special hardware in the Xone. But it would make the games dependent on having a solid internet connection to work, and people that don't have that can't play the game, or it would be a different game.

Sony will be using the same GPGPU as MS because they're both using AMD GPUs. Sony just has lots more of it. Stay off the green Koolaid, son.

You sound like Albert too, "we created DirectX!" is already a current generation meme for MS throwing their dummy out the pram.

@DerekLoffin: well i guess we can put sony in that same boat, emotion engine? The cell? MS software expertise balances out cpu and gpu coding HELLO direct x, c++AMP ,windows

Missing some key points The PS3 OS shrinkage was not the primary key for the PS3 to be on par or better then 360 in certain cases. The problem with the PS3 was that fact that it had a split ram pools 256mb for system and 256mb for gpu. What made the PS3 push forward in graphics was the use of the SPE's on the Cell to do shader intensive gpu workloads. The OS shrinkage for the PS3 helps with the streaming and storing more data.

Direct x 12 will not give major gains to the X1 you will see slight gains,

Seems strange to me that Lemmings readily believe that the largest software company in the world would have a multibillion dollar console launch and just totally screw up the drivers.

*looks at Windows 8*

You know what, nevermind lol.

Ice.....cold.

@misterpmedia:

no its not the same method just because they chips was fabbed the company doesnt mean its the same arch or processing of utilizing gpgpu sony uses cu for gpgpu x1 has 4 extra processors for gpgpu

So, now you're comparing hardware to software (and not even well, as those hardware systems actually had some pretty distinct advantages for their days). Again, I repeat, MS has NEVER been for efficient programming. They do decently enough at creating versatile and user friendly tools, but if you want efficiency, you don't look to MS.

So nothing to see here then?

Oh yeah that’s the reason the crew is 1080p/30fps on both. It’s the dx12 of course. Not that they aimed for parity (ie lowest common denominator). You guys are going to be so let down. You all sound like sony fanboys last gen crowing about the power of the cell. Idiots one and all.

It's obvious that DX12 will increase the Performance of the XB1i just doubt it will be the huge gains that lems are touting.

Theres a reason games look much better at the end of a console generation, developers learn to Squeeze every performance gain they can get out of the hardware over the generation.

Whatever helps you sleep at night....

you realise that the PS4 has more CUs right? lol Even before they use some of them for GPGPU. Also source for these 4 extra compute processors.

Another sucker that fall for MS demented claims.....lol

Oh and it wasn't sony engineers who claim that it was crazy Ken kuturagi..

So one day you act like the PS4 is more powerful and you don't care and the next you are on with the pathetic secret sauces,DX12 is nothing more that MS glorified late to the party API,they are late Mantle release on 2013 with BF4,while MS has DX12 for holiday 2015 is not even close,DX12 is MS mantle like APi and like mantle some gains are expected,but the double and quadruple claims are just stupid and silly.

The xbox one will always be behind and no API will change that.

The xbox one is a 7790 the are diagrams all over the damn place is the only GCN with 14,and it confirmed to be GCN,stop inventing crap wow you are new here and already you are bringing this pathetic crap let me guess they ban you on neogaf so you came here to promote how magical and powerful the xbox one is.lol

Yeah the xbox one is a 7970 with only 16 ROP and 150GB/s bandwidth..lol

Is weak POS hardware,and the reason they did an over clock and killed a reservation is because the hardware sucks,it the GPU was powerful enough MS would not those things,the is no catching and passing the PS4 in 2 years or 3 year or ever,now the new pathetic excuse on the block is wait until MS deliver some day the ownage,so all of the sudden the hardware will stop sucking and will perform like a top of the line PC because people like you say so.

If your account only lasted enough to watch you eat those word latter on..lol

Any one who think the xbox one some will get magical performance out of no where deserves to be call a moron,people can't be this dumb and fall so badly for PR crap design to make people buy the hardware,if your xbox one fail to deliver the performance MS is claiming what will you do.?

1-Eat crow and hold tied to your xbox one pretend is ok.

2-Sell your entire library of games for almost nothing on gamestop alone with the unit.

3-Gon into a deep denial and pretend that the games are performing better than the PS4 even when the PS4 is clearly ahead.

You should not discus things you don't understand.

The PS4 has 50% more CU than the xbox one,100% more ROP the difference is in hardware not software.

The xbox one with the 10% reservation was 1,180Gflops the PS4 was 1,840.

The PS4 has 660Gflops advantage on the xbox one.

The total xbox one flops divided by 2 are 590 Gflops.

So the PS4 actually has an advantage greater than half the power of the xbox one that is one of the places the 50% advantage came from.

Without the reservation the PS4 is like 40+ % more powerful.

Say all the crap you want the difference in games from 60 FPS to 30 is 100% way more than the 50% people use to clain 1080p vs 720p vs 1080p is even more than 100%.

It is that is how i see it,they will try to convince people that the xbox one is powerful or as powerful as the PS4,i think they are to late for that the word is to spread out already..

@DerekLoffin: thats all hyperbol against windows about efficient programming and thats crazy to say about someone whos been a leader in their field for 20+ years

The power of the Cloud and DX12 is easily going to overtake the 38% PS4 advantage as of today. Tell that to those Devs.

so basically MS is saying that X1 will be doing 2160p/120fps with DX12 since MS advertises X1 as a 1080p/60fps console with DX11?

@darkangel115: Fair points, cant argue with that. I think original article from Neowin was irresponsible claiming the GPU will be doubled in power. Even reading the comments over their would give you a pain in the face.

On the optimisation part i think the PS4 has alot to play around with, with 3.5gb of ram locked up in OS and no Kinect like equivalent to crutch. It will interesting to see how well DX12 games look, its just a pity it will be late 2015 before they come out.

@misterpmedia: i know how you think how their using gpgpu the extra four CUs Cerny said is used for cpu offloading or gpgpu and look a the hotchip diagram 2 extra compute processors and 2 extra graphic compute processors. x1 dont use any the 12 CUs for gpgpu.

So basically no article.....& you don't know...for sure anyway. Gotcha. Also what else are they gonna use them for if not to offload the CPU isn't that the main point... PS4 still has more lol.

Yeah and you claim the difference would be 3 to 5 frames per second at the same resolution and you were totally wrong.

Problem is all consoles improve by API and the PS4 will improve as well so it nos like the xbox one will improve while the PS4 stay static.

Minor.?

Up to 30 FPS advantage in Tomb Raider while having better textures,better effects is Minor.?

Dude the difference in Tomb raider is so damn big it make the xbox one seem like it has a 7770 while the PS4 has a 7950 or even worse.

You people don't actually quantify the difference you really aren't.

Look at the 7770 vs the 7850 the difference is 13 FPS,look at the difference between the 7770 and the 7870 23 FPS,look at the difference between the 7770 and the 7950 exactly 30 FPS...

How is it possible that the PS4 commands a lead which is as big as the one between the 7770 vs the 7950.?

On average the PS4 version is 21 FPS faster, that is 7770 vs 7870.

Oh and that is without taking into account that while the 7770 is 30 FPS slower than the 7950 is doing exactly the same graphics,image quality is the same under the same setting,on PS4 vs xbox one that isn't the case either,the xbox one version has alpha based effects in parts at half the resolution,lower quality depth of field,reduced levels of anisotropic filtering and some lower resolution textures and 900p cut scenes.

So not only the PS4 commands a lead which go up to 30FPS it also do so while having better image quality as well which would make the gap even bigger.

16 ROP isn't the problem since the 7790 has 16 ROP as well and hit 1080p easy,is ESRAM the problem alone side the xbox one reservation on a GPU that was already weaker to begin with.

im telling you everything i said about that it came from the people who designed both consoles i dont need to copy or paste anything since you just read the FUD about the x1 maybe you need to read more and try to understand the positives as well as the negatives about the console.

I think I'm not the only one who's figured out what website you read.

I'm gonna leave this here

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/windows-7-performance,2476-10.html

[quote]

However, the most noticeable differences show up when you compare Windows 7 and Windows Vista doing everyday operating system operations. Startup, standby, and hibernation are much faster, proving that Microsoft had to turn many things upside down to reach these performance benefits. Given the fact that Windows 7 is more aggressive when it comes to performance versus power saving, considering the tangible performance benefits, and having felt the improved experience when handling Windows 7, our conclusion is rather strong this time: should you want to improve your Windows-based system, now is the time to change up to the next-generation edition—provided that you find driver support for all of your components, which may be particularly tricky for some notebooks.

Our conclusion is not only valid for fast PCs but also for all systems that aren’t top of the line anymore. We’ve installed Windows 7 onto many different systems and found that the new OS is even more favorable if your system hardware isn’t particularly fast. For instance, we noticed significant differences between Windows Vista and Windows 7 on Atom-based netbooks. Windows 7 showed much less stuttering than Windows XP and Vista. Just make sure you have enough RAM for Windows 7, as insufficient memory will slow down any system on every OS.[/quote]

As you see, upgrading form windows vista to windows 7 provided a performance boost in the same PC with the same hardware (you can read the whole link for more details) 18FPS higher on L4D using the same GPU and CPU and RAM etc. Now this is a broad spectrum but they did note that every PC they tested even low end ones seen a significant boost in performance when upgrading from vista to windows 7. This is real life proof that software does in fact increase performance of hardware. I mean any hermit here will attest to the difference updated drivers make for their GPUs in games performance. So why do the hardcore cows refuse to believe this is impossible?

Now mind you I'm not in anyway stating anything specific except that, if anything has been proven, its that consoles games will look better and run better over the course of the gen. This has been proven time and time again. MS has been a leader in the software industry for well over 20 years and still going strong, Do people actually believe there is no way that MS will increase game performance on the xbox one? Or is it fanboy drivel. Sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself "what am i really saying here" because the fact people refuse to believe in something that has been proven to be true time and time again is rather sad. I guess some people are incapable of learning.

@misterpmedia: thats yall problem everytime someone hit you fanboyswith some knowlegde instead of you listening you go into the misterx excuse when all you got to do is go back to the arch panel from march of last year and hotchips and you could find out yourself the only thing that ps4 go going for it is a .5 more tfs and if you have to uses cpu offloading to the gpu, sound with gpu, and CUs for gpgpu that .5 disappear fast because the x1 has different processors for them tasks.

see this is why I know you do. PS4 has a dedicated audio chip for starters. Gonna assume most of your other BS is wrong too.

@misterpmedia said:

@Tighaman said:

@misterpmedia: thats yall problem everytime someone hit you fanboyswith some knowlegde instead of you listening you go into the misterx excuse when all you got to do is go back to the arch panel from march of last year and hotchips and you could find out yourself the only thing that ps4 go going for it is a .5 more tfs and if you have to uses cpu offloading to the gpu, sound with gpu, and CUs for gpgpu that .5 disappear fast because the x1 has different processors for them tasks.

see this is why I know you do. PS4 has a dedicated audio chip for starters. Gonna guess most of your other BS is wrong too.

FYI the chip for the PS4 is very basic, It doesn't handle all the audio which is offloaded to the GPU. Cerny discussed this quite a few times. Also Sony skipped hotchips this year and didn't show off the PS4 for some reason. Both systems do the same thing, they just handle it differently. The PS4 has a stronger GPU, X1 has a faster CPU, X1 has more co-processors for offloading, PS4 uses GPU compute for tasks due to the latency of the GDDR5 and the CPU's sensitivity to it. Both systems are much more complex then the people here make them sound and why people cherry pick 1 competent of complex machines is beyond me because it'll never tell the full picture. I mean a mustang GT has about 50% more HP and cost about 40% less then a Lotus exige, Yet the lotus will accelerate faster (faster 0-60) Brake better, and handle better and will win in most race types against it. 1 number doesn't tell the full story.

@misterpmedia: true audio TECHNOLOGY it got one DSP is not enough for all sound for the game and crosschat and etc dont say i dont know what im talking about. Cerny already said you will need help for the gpu for ingame sound that ONE DSP is not enough when the competition has a whole sound block with 4 DSP cores for sound try again.

And this is based on info pulled from deep deep down your buns...

Funny how the software for MS always better.?

In fact developers stated that sony was ahead software wise to MS how did that happen.? Sony has make incredibly hard to code hardware shine,imagine what they will do with hardware easy to code to,which also happen to have no pitfalls vs the other console,yet we have MS which is use to work with easy things and now have a problems with ESRAM been to small having 2 memory setups and no true HSA or hUMA.

Titanfall uses the cloud and it look like sh** and has the dumbest AI ever on a game,i would not hold my hopes high.

Trying to imply that MS will improve things greatly but others sony wont is a joke,sony has show over the years how they always improve graphics even when people think is all say and done about the console they out done them self once more,and you some how believe that MS will beat them at their own game.?

So 50% more CU 100% more ROP and several other hardware difference is not a damn fact,.?

So just because a developer say the PS4 is 50% faster some how he is a stupid developer and is a lie.?

If you go by Tomb Raider the difference is 7770 vs 7870 and 7770 vs 7950 at times,30% my ass..

Look at the post i make about Tomb Raider and see how is the gap on PC between GPU and see how big is between the xbox one and PS4 on that game so you can see how much the difference can amount to.

30 FPS vs 60 FPS is 100% difference,30FPS vs 20 FPS is more than 50%.

720p vs 1080p is more than 100% difference in pixels,just because the PS4 has 50% more power doesn't mean it will have 50% better looking the difference doesn't work that way.

Double from 1.28 TF is 2.56.TF The 7770 has 1.28Tf the 7870 has 2.56TF.

Now the difference in Tomb Raider on PC doesn't amount to the 7870 doubling the 7770 graphics even that the gap is 100% more power not 50%,yet the difference is just 23 FPS,so how does the PS4 has an advantage that is greater to the difference between 2 cards that have 100% difference in power.? How.?

The PS4 to double the xbox one on Tomb Raider need more than double the power of the xbox one to do so,because that is what it is require on PC,the 7950 runs at 59FPS the 7770 at 29 FPS that is 30 FPS difference,the 7950 is not 2.56 TF is

The 7950 is 2.86 TF it more than doubles the 7770 in Gflops,how is it possible that the gap is this big between the PS4 and xbox one.?

Then you have MGS5 which recently release 720p on xbox one 1080p on PS4 more than 100% pixel difference while the PS4 version has dynamics clouds and the xbox one doesn't.

The gap between the PS4 and xbox one is some games surpass 100% not 30% 100% and that can't be deny look at my post before this one,it is there the difference to see.

That wasn't the only problem no game used SPE,so they were at a disadvantage,but unlike the PS3 which had a incredible CPU that could do GPU task,the xbox one is weak all around and doesn't have anything to compensate how Cell did,and still to the last day the xbox 360 had more ram,yet the PS3 in the end had the better looking games and GTA5 which once was superior on xbox 360,now isn't is superior on PS3 even that the PS3 still has less ram.

It was the wonderful Cell.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......

Yeah MS has endless years making OS and DX is theirs,yet the PS3 manage to beat the xbox 360 graphically.

Oh and the PS4 is modify for heavy compute the xbox one isn't...

Yeah i will need a link for that crap you just claim...lol...I hope you are not talking about DMA and that crap because those aren't processors for GPGPU...lol

where did he say that. Edit: found it, he said you can use the GPU as an option.

@misterpmedia: the same interview about the rumors 14+4 cu use read it

see edit