Digital Foundry : Comparison video on why you will see Xbox One X and PC games look better than PS4 Pro

Is the answer that they are more powerful than the PS4 Pro?

"bbbut teh checkerboardin!!!11"

I love how cows avoid threads like these

Lol... I'm sure they'll turn up.

Ffffuuuuck!!! Gotta call Microsoft. We've been figured out!

Best looking console games will be on Pro... FACT...

Good look getting base Xbone to churn out a game like Horizon:ZD at a decent enough resolution for XboneX to then render at 4k.

The Cows are in Denial that the difference between XB1X games and PS4 Pro games is about 3X higher than the difference between PS4 and XB1 games. You are literally going to get about 3X the difference visible in games.

@scatteh316 No that is NOT a Fact and You are Beyond Delusional. Go take some vitamin D will ya.

Actually the performance difference between the original X1 (1.31 teraflops) and PS4 (1.84 teraflops) is of roughly 40% which is also around the performance difference between the PS4 Pro (4.12 teraflops) and the X1X (6 teraflops) so stop talking crap. The differences will be noticeable only if you put games side by side on most cases.

Wouldn't be that hard. Horizon could run at 900p on the X1 and look the same across the board. Increase it to 4K on the X1X and it looks better than the 1800p version of the Pro.

Wow.

This is what happens with console-only gamers try to debate technology as it relates to a console.........or the progression of said technology.

Your assertion is beyond ignorant.

1.84 TF's is OVER 3X the GPU difference than the PS4 had over the XB1 500 GF's.

That's just GPU difference.

There are other huge improvements like 50% more Bandwidth, 50% more Ram and Faster instead of Slower CPU plus other Xbox custom improvements to the Jaguar to improve Latency. All Together cumulatively the visible difference will be about 3X more than the visible difference between PS4 and XB1. Those are all Facts so give it up.

You can't quantify visible difference.

@Juub1990:

Why not?

Isn't that what DF is for?

Maybe you're right and I can't quantify it but the difference between XB1X and Pro are huge in comparison to the difference between PS4 and XB1.

Didn't they mention quite a few times in the video that "4K Assets" aren't always necessary and that textures will look better just by increasing resolution? I'm not saying using higher resolution textures won't make a difference but what kind of difference are we going to see really? I'd say the resolution jump is more important than the texture resolution when it comes to consoles.

The differences in CPUs are negligible, both are bottlenecks. Here the GPU is much more relevant. And no, the percentage of difference is much more relevant than the difference in quantity. That means the X1X is a 40% more capable machine just like the PS4 was over the X1

Why? or are you just going to insult without an argument? that's typical of ignorants

3x the difference? Who's being the fanboy now then?

X1 vs PS4 was roughly 40% difference in graphical power PS4 pro vs X1X has roughly the same 40% difference in graphical power. All your going to get out of the X1X over the pro is moderately better detailed assets possibly 4k resolution vs pro's 1800p upscaling. and if both are running same resolution X1X will see higher minimum/average frame rates with the better detailed assets.

its no different from comparing a GTX 1060 vs gtx 1070 or AMD RX 470 vs RX580..

its not a generation gap when least common denominator for a game's design limits has to work on the original X1.

4K Assets just refers to textures that are designed to be viewed at higher resolution, meaning there is extra detail and design that make the resolution jump really make a difference.

It doesnt refer to the resolution of the texture itself, but just the quality of the texture.

Easy example is taking an older game like Morrowind and playing at 4K.

At the time of development, no one was playing at 4K do developers dont spend time or resources making detailed texture work.

Viewed now, they still look sharp, just flat and lifeless.

4K assets would be designed to take advantage of the increased clarity and image quality.

Yes, higher resolution would make CURRENT texture detail more apparent, but having textures DESIGNED for 4K and running textures at 4K is different.

It will matter, especially when compared side by side.

Take the above image. Same texture just higher resolution.

4K asset would be the developer knowing you will be running at 4k resolution and adding extra detail like scratches, maybe dynamic dirt or reflections that would be visible only at a higher resolution. Could also be bump or parallax mapping, something that would get lost at lower resolutions.

You could technically add them to the HD image but it would just get lost in the low resolution which just drowns out any detail

That's what I mean. You can say there is a difference but aside from frame rate and pixel count, you cannot really count anything else. For instance Soft Shadows look more realistic than standard shadows and require a shitload more power but you can't actually put a number on the "visible" difference.

Yep, they sure will.

@04dcarraher:

I'm not sure you read my post in the proper context.

The difference between PS4 and XB1 is PS4 has a 500 GF GPU advantage and Slower CPU.

The difference between XB1X and Pro is XB1X has 1800 GF GPU (over 3X 500 GF), 50% More bandwidth, Faster CPU and 50% more Ram.

I would say that is over 3X the difference that the PS4 had over XB1.

Because you are a well-known cow.

We both know i would just be wasting my time........right?

Youll either ignore it or come up with some other crazy scenario in which the difference doesnt matter.

Ill just say this.

Teraflops is a misleading metric when trying to determine graphical capability or visual prowess.

Why? Well a system needs everything to be perfect in order to achieve that, meaning no bottlenecks.

In Pro's case, it can never achieve 4.2 TF for a couple of reasons, but the biggest one is lack sufficient memory bandwidth.

Even if it COULD reach 4.2, 40% here doesnt equal 40% everywhere. They more technology advances, the bigger that 40% differences becomes, especially if one example is able to get closer to the target than the other.

You cannot just substract a number from another and think that difference translates directly to visual difference. That's stupid. The difference percentage is much more informative.

I might see where your coming from I guess if I understand you correctly.... where X1X and PS4 Pro have in 3 areas where they improved and are faster than their predecessors and where X1X also improved over Pro.

But the way you worded it, saying "3x the difference visible in games". made it sound like you were expecting 3x the amount. Not where each area with the improvements will add to it being better performing and better looking vs the counterparts but not 3x better.

If I'm a cow, you're a lemming, so what gives? So do you believe the X1X will show a 3X increase in visual fidelity with respect to the PS4 Pro like the guy I was responding to stated? Even when DF themselves have said that using techniques such as checkerboard make it difficult to differentiate between games enhanced that way and native 4k unless you're standing a few feet away?

I never stated the XB1X will show an increase of 3X over the Pro.

I stated this:

The difference between PS4 and XB1 is PS4 has a 500 GF GPU advantage and Slower CPU.

The difference between XB1X and Pro is XB1X has 1800 GF GPU (over 3X 500 GF), 50% More bandwidth, Faster CPU and 50% more Ram.

I would say that is over 3X the difference that the PS4 had over XB1.

3X the difference that the PS4 had over the XB1 not 3X the total Capabilities of the Pro. That would be Crazy delusional.

You literally said this on your first post here: "You are literally going to get about 3X the difference visible in games."

That's why I said that you claimed to be a 3x increase in visual fidelity which is pretty absurd. So what is this 3x visible difference you're talking about if not a 3x increase then?

@pinkanimal:

3X the difference between XB1 and PS4 not 3X the whole console.

Only as we've seen in other DF video's not all 900p games will hit native 4k.

Especially as the power gap between base PS4 and base xbone is bigger then Pro and Scorpio.

BEST case scenario Scorpio will match Pro's visuals.

@scatteh316: ROFL the delusion is strong.

OMG what a dumb ass comment.. lmao

I know nothing about the 3x's more power and the technical side of it, but if it's really just gonna be there's more rocks and grass around that tree, color me unimpressed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All this really boils down to is slightly better textures, and effects between the platforms in X1X and the Pro with 3rd parties. The real question is how will the X1X stack up with exclusives when it gets some in the future?

@scatteh316: you do know that that DF info and chart was just an unoptimized translation right. Like right now if you take "X" game running at this and put it on X1X it would run at "this level"

Duh. More powerful and expensive machines looks better. What a schocker.

Actually your comment is the dumb one that brings nothing to the debate.

Yes but as they point out some games are way over rendering budget and optimisation will only get you so far.

They use x86 and GPU architecture is close enough to not need a massive amount of work.

And when that is the only reply you have you know you're done and beat.

Quick question, do people who play at 4k run at sub 60fps? Wouldn't you need a crazy rig to maintain a stable 60+ fps?

lol, im far from a Lemming and i have the posting history to prove it.

And no, 3X the fidelity is nonsense, though no one here stated that.

I have long said that i fully support checkerboard rendering or whatever method devs want to use to increase image quality.

Im willing to sacrifice native resolution for better effects, textures, and framerate.

That said, even if either console is using checkerboard, it still needs a 4K framebuffer, meaning it needs the RAM and memory bandwidth to support it.

If i were cows, I would be MORE concerned with devs using checkerboarding and celebrating when X1X has a native 4K game.

Why?

Well if it is using checkerboard 4K then those extra resources will go to making the game prettier, and they wont have the same bandwidth or RAM on Pro to do the same. That will make the biggest difference in multiplats.

I still think pushing native 4K is a mistake for MS (and Sony). Using those extra resources to really make the console stand out graphically or even pushing 60fps seems like a smarter move, but whatever.

lolblack crush

@EG101: 3x more? You are delusional.

@navyguy21 said:

@Zero_epyon said:

Didn't they mention quite a few times in the video that "4K Assets" aren't always necessary and that textures will look better just by increasing resolution? I'm not saying using higher resolution textures won't make a difference but what kind of difference are we going to see really? I'd say the resolution jump is more important than the texture resolution when it comes to consoles.

4K Assets just refers to textures that are designed to be viewed at higher resolution, meaning there is extra detail and design that make the resolution jump really make a difference.

It doesnt refer to the resolution of the texture itself, but just the quality of the texture.

Easy example is taking an older game like Morrowind and playing at 4K.

At the time of development, no one was playing at 4K do developers dont spend time or resources making detailed texture work.

Viewed now, they still look sharp, just flat and lifeless.

4K assets would be designed to take advantage of the increased clarity and image quality.

Yes, higher resolution would make CURRENT texture detail more apparent, but having textures DESIGNED for 4K and running textures at 4K is different.

It will matter, especially when compared side by side.

Take the above image. Same texture just higher resolution.

4K asset would be the developer knowing you will be running at 4k resolution and adding extra detail like scratches, maybe dynamic dirt or reflections that would be visible only at a higher resolution. Could also be bump or parallax mapping, something that would get lost at lower resolutions.

You could technically add them to the HD image but it would just get lost in the low resolution which just drowns out any detail

That's what I'm saying. It's not entirely necessary to include higher resolution textures in every case.Just increasing the resolution would be enough. So if a game runs on Pro at 1800p and 4K on scorpio with the same textures, it would be hard to tell the difference. Add higher resolution textures and it might be more obvious. I just think that more times than not, devs will focus on resolution and effects instead of higher resolution textures since raising resolutions makes textures look better on their own.

Depends on the level of quality you want. Personally, and I'm not the only one who shares this view, but I prefer high settings over Ultra. There's really not that big of a difference between ultra and high in most cases. So I might either do high or a mix of ultra and high. And for that you don't need a crazy rig. I have a GTX 1070 and a Core i7 7700k. It's not a slouch, but it's far from a crazy rig.

Yes, sadly a lot of PC games nowadays have bloated settings that just upgrade the visuals in a minimal way but impact the performance greatly. Nothing worse than having to take screenshots and then even having to zoom them in to clearly notice the difference. Had to do exactly that the other day for Dirt 4 with my R9 285.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying, hopefully not on purpose.

Sure, if a developer chooses not to add ANYTHING extra to the ports.........theoretically they will look the same, just sharper on X1X.

What I think you are forgetting is that developers have shown every gen (and especially this one) that they are willing to take advantage of the extra power. We saw it with XB1/PS4 where PS4 has better resolution, shadows, effects, draw distance, framerate, post process, etc.

Even more so with the Pro.

Are we to assume now that all of a sudden............they will shoot for parity? Thats extremely naive or just blatantly ignoring the facts.

4k assets means so much more than just textures, i just gave you an example.

Pro will never have the same capabilities as the X1X unless developers just do straight ports.

Even then, we are talking about 50% more memory bandwidth to play with not to mention the extra horsepower.

Are you suggesting that they will just port them over with just increased resolution?...................When history says otherwise?

No I'm not saying they'll shoot for parity. I think we're saying the same things. When I said "devs will focus on resolution and effects instead of higher resolution textures since raising resolutions makes textures look better on their own." I am saying what you did here:

"We saw it with XB1/PS4 where PS4 has better resolution, shadows, effects, draw distance, framerate, post process, etc."

I fully expect X1X to show off better resolution on top of better effects than the Pro. What I don't expect is that most devs will include higher resolution textures all the time. It won't always be necessary when most of the additional power is taken up by increased resolution, effects and performance.

Horizon: ZD isn't native 4K though. Just compare Anthem to Horizon: ZD. Developers are just starting to work on the XB1X. Within a year there will be games on the XB1X that look better then Horizon: ZD. The games will be in native 4K with high texture settings.

Again, 4K assets arent just about textures or high resolution textures.

Its about having higher quality assets that can only be noticed with higher resolution.

PCSS shadows, higher quality effects, higher quality particles, parallax mapping, tessellation, footprints on ground, bugs on ground and plants, object detail in the distance, mesh quality, etc.

You keep mentioning textures as if 4K assets means HD textures. Its about far, far more than that.

Im trying to explain it in the best way i can but its tough when its clear that you either have your mind made up, you WANT it to be minimal, or just dont understand.

Texture resolution isnt the only thing that will make a difference