Digital Foundry vs. Wii-U

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-wiiu-e3-2012

It's safe to say that last year's Wii U E3 debut left us with more questions than we had answers. It was clear that Nintendo has once again stepped back from the technological arms race that had cost its competitors billions in losses, and was focusing on controller-driven concept games that it felt had a greater chance of mainstream success. However, at the same time, the console was being released seven years after the debut of Xbox 360, so surely it had to reflect the generational leaps in technology we've seen since then? The demos suggested otherwise and, one year later, the evidence suggests that not a great deal has changed.

But Nintendo's E3 showing effectively confirms that there is no unambiguous, generational leap in raw processing power here compared to the current HD consoles, and prior claims that the machine hosts twice the power of the Xbox 360 clearly ring hollow.

Instead, the assets released by Nintendo in particular are notable in how "lo-fi" they are: its own screenshots confirm that some of its most simplistic titles are running at basic 720p resolution with no kind of anti-aliasing whatsoever, just like its demos were a year ago. A closer look at the showcase titles Nintendo debuted at its E3 press conference also shows a puzzling lack of consistency in performance that we wouldn't expect to see in a console based on mature tech less than six months out from release, which we can only explain by the idea that the second screen is imposing more of a drain than we might have otherwise thought. The company's spiritual successor to pack-in title Wii Sports - Nintendo Land - is an interesting example of this inconsistency. In theory this is "home territory" where Nintendo should revel in what it does best. While the concepts and charm are there, the trademark 60Hz update is inconsistent to say the least in certain areas - puzzling for such a visually sparse title

As you would hope, New Super Mario Bros. U achieves a flawless 60Hz performance

Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. This does not tally with a report from the showfloor, where an unnamed rep said it will ship at 60Hz. Of all of the Nintendo titles on display, it's Pikmin 3 that had the most modern attributes in terms of what was being rendered on-screen, and the adherence to 30 frames per second once again strongly suggests that the core hardware represents no fundamental leap in capabilities over what current-gen consoles offer. While we should fully expect optimisation efforts in the time before release, it's highly unlikely that ballpark performance will change radically.

Nothing anyone familiar with hardware already hasn't deduced.

*popcorn

stop it MF ur making me more depressed :(

I would really not mind the hardware beeing crappy

But they lost me when they said Zelda is going even more casual, that was the critical point that made me decide to never touch a WiiU

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-wiiu-e3-2012

It's safe to say that last year's Wii U E3 debut left us with more questions than we had answers. It was clear that Nintendo has once again stepped back from the technological arms race that had cost its competitors billions in losses, and was focusing on controller-driven concept games that it felt had a greater chance of mainstream success. However, at the same time, the console was being released seven years after the debut of Xbox 360, so surely it had to reflect the generational leaps in technology we've seen since then? The demos suggested otherwise and, one year later, the evidence suggests that not a great deal has changed.MFDOOM1983

But Nintendo's E3 showing effectively confirms that there is no unambiguous, generational leap in raw processing power here compared to the current HD consoles, and prior claims that the machine hosts twice the power of the Xbox 360 clearly ring hollow.

Instead, the assets released by Nintendo in particular are notable in how "lo-fi" they are: its own screenshots confirm that some of its most simplistic titles are running at basic 720p resolution with no kind of anti-aliasing whatsoever, just like its demos were a year ago. A closer look at the showcase titles Nintendo debuted at its E3 press conference also shows a puzzling lack of consistency in performance that we wouldn't expect to see in a console based on mature tech less than six months out from release, which we can only explain by the idea that the second screen is imposing more of a drain than we might have otherwise thought. The company's spiritual successor to pack-in title Wii Sports - Nintendo Land - is an interesting example of this inconsistency. In theory this is "home territory" where Nintendo should revel in what it does best. While the concepts and charm are there, the trademark 60Hz update is inconsistent to say the least in certain areas - puzzling for such a visually sparse title

As you would hope, New Super Mario Bros. U achieves a flawless 60Hz performance

Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. This does not tally with a report from the showfloor, where an unnamed rep said it will ship at 60Hz. Of all of the Nintendo titles on display, it's Pikmin 3 that had the most modern attributes in terms of what was being rendered on-screen, and the adherence to 30 frames per second once again strongly suggests that the core hardware represents no fundamental leap in capabilities over what current-gen consoles offer. While we should fully expect optimisation efforts in the time before release, it's highly unlikely that ballpark performance will change radically.

Nothing anyone familiar with hardware already hasn't deduced.

Why didn't you include where they say Batman looked better on the Wii U and had FXAA which is something the 360/PS3 versions don't have?

Also, this article has already proven to have some flawed information as Nintendo has confirmed that Pikmin 3 runs in native 720p at 60fps on Tuesday.

Digital Foundry is just trolling. They have yet to see the Wii U's true power.

Aw sheep, they are just hoping at this point that ps4 and nextbox aren't powerful so they won't be left in the dust again

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-wiiu-e3-2012

It's safe to say that last year's Wii U E3 debut left us with more questions than we had answers. It was clear that Nintendo has once again stepped back from the technological arms race that had cost its competitors billions in losses, and was focusing on controller-driven concept games that it felt had a greater chance of mainstream success. However, at the same time, the console was being released seven years after the debut of Xbox 360, so surely it had to reflect the generational leaps in technology we've seen since then? The demos suggested otherwise and, one year later, the evidence suggests that not a great deal has changed.bonesawisready5

But Nintendo's E3 showing effectively confirms that there is no unambiguous, generational leap in raw processing power here compared to the current HD consoles, and prior claims that the machine hosts twice the power of the Xbox 360 clearly ring hollow.

Instead, the assets released by Nintendo in particular are notable in how "lo-fi" they are: its own screenshots confirm that some of its most simplistic titles are running at basic 720p resolution with no kind of anti-aliasing whatsoever, just like its demos were a year ago. A closer look at the showcase titles Nintendo debuted at its E3 press conference also shows a puzzling lack of consistency in performance that we wouldn't expect to see in a console based on mature tech less than six months out from release, which we can only explain by the idea that the second screen is imposing more of a drain than we might have otherwise thought. The company's spiritual successor to pack-in title Wii Sports - Nintendo Land - is an interesting example of this inconsistency. In theory this is "home territory" where Nintendo should revel in what it does best. While the concepts and charm are there, the trademark 60Hz update is inconsistent to say the least in certain areas - puzzling for such a visually sparse title

As you would hope, New Super Mario Bros. U achieves a flawless 60Hz performance

Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. This does not tally with a report from the showfloor, where an unnamed rep said it will ship at 60Hz. Of all of the Nintendo titles on display, it's Pikmin 3 that had the most modern attributes in terms of what was being rendered on-screen, and the adherence to 30 frames per second once again strongly suggests that the core hardware represents no fundamental leap in capabilities over what current-gen consoles offer. While we should fully expect optimisation efforts in the time before release, it's highly unlikely that ballpark performance will change radically.

Nothing anyone familiar with hardware already hasn't deduced.

Why didn't you include where they say Batman looked better on the Wii U and had FXAA which is something the 360/PS3 versions don't have?

Also, this article has already proven to have some flawed information as Nintendo has confirmed that Pikmin 3 runs in native 720p at 60fps on Tuesday.

[QUOTE="bonesawisready5"]

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]

Why didn't you include where they say Batman looked better on the Wii U and had FXAA which is something the 360/PS3 versions don't have?

Also, this article has already proven to have some flawed information as Nintendo has confirmed that Pikmin 3 runs in native 720p at 60fps on Tuesday.

MFDOOM1983

You really didn't even read the link you posted?

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second." fromhttp://wiiudaily.com/2012/06/wii-u-games-run-in-720p/

I've heard reports that it was 60fps on the show floor as well but let's just say it isn't for the sake of Digital Foundry. Either way Nintendo Land, Mario Bros U, and Pikmin 3 are all confirmed to be 720p native @60fps when they ship.

Had you read the link you would've seen this from Digital Foundry:

First of all, there are fundamental differences in the lighting model - positioning is different, and some light sources are added, others taken away. Wii U also seems to be sporting motion blur, different settings in the atmospheric rendering, along with the addition of brand new assets to the scene - not just the banners hanging from the tower, but new textures in some places too - it actually seems to be more accurately representing the look of the building when you first make your way towards it after saving Catwoman in the game's first chapter.

The scene is dramatically transformed but where there are some new additions, we also see cutbacks too. Long-range draw distance appears to be pared back noticeably, while in the mid-distance we see missing buildings, and the introduction of minor new scenery like additional water towers. Curiously, thin geometry seems to be entirely absent in places for some reason. We won't draw definitive conclusions until we're hands-on with actual code but it does seem to suggest that elements have been added and removed to better suit the capabilities of the hardware.

We're also fairly sure that the basic console 720p presentation has been augmented with FXAA or some equivalent post-process anti-aliasing, which is present in all the gameplay clips, but disabled when "detective vision" is in play. The PS3 and 360 versions feature no anti-aliasing at all.

Reports continue to emerge from sources suggesting that Wii U is significantly more powerful than the current batch of titles may lead us to believe - the obvious inference being that these games have been created on incomplete hardware, perhaps with development tools that are still evolving, by studios unfamiliar with the hardware. In the case of Arkham City, we understand Warner Bros' Montreal studio is carrying out the work while Rocksteady continues on its own projects. Digital Foundry

So this isn't exactly as negative as your OP paints it to be, but yes it does have it's down points (and high points)

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second. " Nintendo Rep

"Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. " DF

Nintendo could claim it WILL run at 120fps at launch, but it doesn't change the fact that pikmin was running at 30fps with minor fps dips at E3. If we actually saw it at 60fps at e3 there wouldn't be a discussion. All devs claim they'll fix fps issues before launch. Some are fixed, other are not.

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second. " Nintendo Rep

"Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. " DF

Nintendo could claim it WILL run at 120fps at launch, but it doesn't change the fact that pikmin was running at 30fps with minor fps dips at E3. If we actually saw it at 60fps at e3 there wouldn't be a discussion. All devs claim they'll fix fps issues before launch. Some are fixed, other are not.

MFDOOM1983

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]All this information based off tech demos, incomplete games, and a system that isn't totally and completely finalized yet. I think when Wii U launches, we'll be seeing many "upgrade" editions on the Wii U, and how those fair over their HD Twins lesser counterparts is dependent on the time and effort development studios put into it. The Wii U is launching first, it's in the same perdicament the 360 was in at the time. Remember when 360 got "HD" ports? Yeah, Wii U will survive based on the exclusives and Nintendo's efforts to pool in third parties that devote time to making games for the system stand out, whether visually or on the use of the tablet controller. I'm not worried for Wii U, I know we'll see a great system that will have great games already. I still love and enjoy Nintendo's game, and if it just becomes my Nintendo system again, so be it. bonesawisready5

Everyone seems to be ignoring how bad those early HD ports on 360 looked and how much better 360 games looked after that

[QUOTE="bonesawisready5"]

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]All this information based off tech demos, incomplete games, and a system that isn't totally and completely finalized yet. I think when Wii U launches, we'll be seeing many "upgrade" editions on the Wii U, and how those fair over their HD Twins lesser counterparts is dependent on the time and effort development studios put into it. The Wii U is launching first, it's in the same perdicament the 360 was in at the time. Remember when 360 got "HD" ports? Yeah, Wii U will survive based on the exclusives and Nintendo's efforts to pool in third parties that devote time to making games for the system stand out, whether visually or on the use of the tablet controller. I'm not worried for Wii U, I know we'll see a great system that will have great games already. I still love and enjoy Nintendo's game, and if it just becomes my Nintendo system again, so be it. MFDOOM1983

Everyone seems to be ignoring how bad those early HD ports on 360 looked and how much better 360 games looked after that

Well I can only speak for myself when I say I never thought they looked all that much better than their last generation counter parts. It's not like the Wii U is making the leap from 480p to 720p anyway, which is a large reason why 360 games did look even a small bit better than Xbox ports because of the resolution increase going from 640x480 to 1280x720. I wouldn't expect that to happen on the Wii U since we're talking about 360 ports that run in 1024x640 or 1280x720 onto another platform in nearly the same resolution.

EDIT: Why aren't you adding the rest of the article to your OP? You can copy some of it from my post or click the link and copy + paste it.

I really can't believe no one is reading the link MFDOOM provided.

Ninja Gaiden 3 runs at 30 frames, what a joke!

I would really not mind the hardware beeing crappyloosingENDS

Ninja Gaiden 3 runs at 30 frames, what a joke!

Gue1

To be fair Nintendo has made them add dismemberment and other features into it.

Yea, I know. Nintendo is getting them to add dismemberment into a video game. That sentence was typed.

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second. " Nintendo Rep

"Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. " DF

Nintendo could claim it WILL run at 120fps at launch, but it doesn't change the fact that pikmin was running at 30fps with minor fps dips at E3. If we actually saw it at 60fps at e3 there wouldn't be a discussion. All devs claim they'll fix fps issues before launch. Some are fixed, other are not.

MFDOOM1983

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second. " Nintendo Rep

"Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. " DF

Nintendo could claim it WILL run at 120fps at launch, but it doesn't change the fact that pikmin was running at 30fps with minor fps dips at E3. If we actually saw it at 60fps at e3 there wouldn't be a discussion. All devs claim they'll fix fps issues before launch. Some are fixed, other are not.

Human-after-all

Indeed this is likely an older build of a Wii up-port. It's also one of my most wanted games this year. Good to see Pikmin back and I can't wait to find out what happened to Olimar.

And I guess you don't care about facts, because you're ignoring them. But then again, that's what trolls do.Toxic-Seahorse

You fail to realize 4+ months of dev time and the fact that most demos at e3 are of older stable builds is a lot of time and consideration. Human-after-all

[QUOTE="MFDOOM1983"]

"However, the representative said that some of those titles, like Pikmin 3, will run at 60 frames per second. " Nintendo Rep

"Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. " DF

Nintendo could claim it WILL run at 120fps at launch, but it doesn't change the fact that pikmin was running at 30fps with minor fps dips at E3. If we actually saw it at 60fps at e3 there wouldn't be a discussion. All devs claim they'll fix fps issues before launch. Some are fixed, other are not.

Human-after-all

WiiU seems like a joke hardware wise right now

They had nothing in E3 to look even passable and now this analysis shows why

Maybe when they drop it to 99$ i will consider one, i am no longer buying Nintendo 50$ cost hardware for 250$ like Wii

WiiU seems like a joke hardware wise right now

They had nothing in E3 to look even passable and now this analysis shows why

Maybe when they drop it to 99$ i will consider one, i am no longer buying Nintendo 50$ cost hardware for 250$ like Wii

loosingENDS

Well, at least there aren't any Wii U games made by third-rate developers (yet). And as for the hardware, games aren't fully utilizing it right now since they are currently held back by the limitations of the Xbox 360/PS3. At least give the Wii U a try.

lol Digital Foundry

Probably a bit too early to tell, but I doubt the Wii U's will be a quantum leap from what we've seen. It really looks like it's in the same ball park as the current gen which is disappointing.

Good sig TC. It basically sums this years E3 up.

lol Digital Foundry

ShadowMoses900

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

WiiU seems like a joke hardware wise right now

They had nothing in E3 to look even passable and now this analysis shows why

Maybe when they drop it to 99$ i will consider one, i am no longer buying Nintendo 50$ cost hardware for 250$ like Wii

TyberZannxxxx

Well, at least there aren't any Wii U games made by third-rate developers (yet). And as for the hardware, games aren't fully utilizing it right now since they are currently held back by the limitations of the Xbox 360/PS3. At least give the Wii U a try.

I was going to give it chance before they came out and say they will further casualize Zelda

Now i am thinking about never touching one

[QUOTE="TyberZannxxxx"]

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

WiiU seems like a joke hardware wise right now

They had nothing in E3 to look even passable and now this analysis shows why

Maybe when they drop it to 99$ i will consider one, i am no longer buying Nintendo 50$ cost hardware for 250$ like Wii

loosingENDS

Well, at least there aren't any Wii U games made by third-rate developers (yet). And as for the hardware, games aren't fully utilizing it right now since they are currently held back by the limitations of the Xbox 360/PS3. At least give the Wii U a try.

I was going to give it chance before they came out and say they will further casualize Zelda

Now i am thinking about never touching one

But if you don't get a Wii U, you might miss out on some good games. Keep that in mind.

I would really not mind the hardware beeing crappy

But they lost me when they said Zelda is going even more casual, that was the critical point that made me decide to never touch a WiiU

loosingENDS

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

lol Digital Foundry

freedomfreak

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="TyberZannxxxx"]

Well, at least there aren't any Wii U games made by third-rate developers (yet). And as for the hardware, games aren't fully utilizing it right now since they are currently held back by the limitations of the Xbox 360/PS3. At least give the Wii U a try.

TyberZannxxxx

I was going to give it chance before they came out and say they will further casualize Zelda

Now i am thinking about never touching one

But if you don't get a Wii U, you might miss out on some good games. Keep that in mind.

It took 5+ years for Wii to come up with games i liked and ony 3 of them

I wont make the same mistake twice, i will only consider one when they have 5+ huge RPG games released and an amazing super hardcore Zelda

otherwise it is not like the 200+ games i will surly have on 720/PS4 wont keep me busy enough

[QUOTE="TyberZannxxxx"]

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

I was going to give it chance before they came out and say they will further casualize Zelda

Now i am thinking about never touching one

loosingENDS

But if you don't get a Wii U, you might miss out on some good games. Keep that in mind.

It took 5+ years for Wii to come up with games i liked and ony 3 of them

I wont make the same mistake twice, i will only consider one when they have 5+ huge RPG games released and an amazing super hardcore Zelda

otherwise it is not like the 200+ games i will surly have on 720/PS4 wont keep me busy enough

Wait until Quakecon or TGS. I'm sure that more Wii U games will be announced then.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

lol Digital Foundry

Grawse

You guys are doubting one of the most reliable sources in the internets and then you dare to mention IGN?

no, no ,no this can't be real! :shock:

[QUOTE="Grawse"][QUOTE="freedomfreak"] Indeed. I'll wait for IGN's impressions.Gue1

You guys are doubting one of the most reliable sources in the internets and then you dare to mention IGN?

no, no ,no this can't be real! :shock:

Should be interesting to see what happens with the recent devkits. Unoptimized and first batch of games, love it.

ShuichiChamp24

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Nintendo did release the PC that everyone was expect,how would they ridicule it then? A lot of these people, save for painguy, were ready to hate this thing from the beginning.

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

[QUOTE="Grawse"]Good idea. Grawse

You guys are doubting one of the most reliable sources in the internets and then you dare to mention IGN?

no, no ,no this can't be real! :shock:

[QUOTE="ShuichiChamp24"]

Should be interesting to see what happens with the recent devkits. Unoptimized and first batch of games, love it.

TilxWLOC

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Nintendo did release the PC that everyone was expect,how would they ridicule it then? A lot of these people, save for painguy, were ready to hate this thing from the beginning.

[QUOTE="TilxWLOC"]

[QUOTE="ShuichiChamp24"]

Should be interesting to see what happens with the recent devkits. Unoptimized and first batch of games, love it.

ShuichiChamp24

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Nintendo did release the PC that everyone was expect,how would they ridicule it then? A lot of these people, save for painguy, were ready to hate this thing from the beginning.

[QUOTE="ShuichiChamp24"]

Should be interesting to see what happens with the recent devkits. Unoptimized and first batch of games, love it.

TilxWLOC

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Nintendo did release the PC that everyone was expect,how would they ridicule it then? A lot of these people, save for painguy, were ready to hate this thing from the beginning.

Nintendo is a cheap casual company now. Deal with it.

It is to early to judge the console's graphics because nothing has been released yet. Not the games, not the console, not even specs, until someone has purchased a final version of a Wii-U game, it is ridiculous to judge them in any means. When they come out, bash and complain all you want, but right now you all look quick to discredit something.

Also, I think people forget how big of a leap this gen was and expect it again. Because of how big that leap was it would be hard to make affordable hardware that can surpass it by what has been anticipated, remember how expensive it was this gen? The Wii was still 250, and I think they only made a ten dollar profit on each sold. Nintendo aren't going to take that loss, they don't have back-up or anything to save them from financial issues if losses get high enough.