Divinity: Original Sin 2, The true GOTY of 2017.

Why give a shit about these awards though ?

@GarGx1 said:

@kozio said:

@knight-k said:

@kozio said:

Somewhere on the way to 130 employees you lose the right to claim indie-ness.

Indie = independent from any publisher. So yes they're as Indie as indie can be. Amount of employees does not matter. You could argue they're a "big" indie studio yes.

Development ? They're not indie.

Funding ? People tend to miss the difference between selfpublishing and overall publishing.

Conclusion: Mid-Tier game

Call me the day Gamespot will give never seen before indie game a 10/10.

Cloud Imperium Games are an indie developer even though they have 5 studios and over 400 employees.

In case you're wondering who C.I.G. are, they're making Star Citizen.

Since when AAA production values and hundreds of people in big offices count as indie ? The Wikipedia entry has this to say about indie games:

There is no exact widely accepted definition of what constitutes an "indie game".However, indie games generally share certain characteristics. Indie games are developed by individuals, small teams, or small independent companies;such companies are often specifically formed for the development of one specific game. Typically, indie games are smaller than mainstream titles.Indie game developers are generally not financially backed byvideo game publishers(as these are risk averse and prefer big budget games)and usually have little to no budget available.

So lets go through each part of the above quote and see how Star Citizen comes out on the other side.

Developed by Individual, Small Team, or Small Independent Company: According to Chris Roberts there is a team of 400 developers working on Star Citizen. So, while it is an independent company, meaning it doesn’t have a publisher looking over its shoulder, it doesn’t really meet the small requirement. Going by this standard alone Star Citizen could not be considered indie.

Often formed for the development of one game: Star Citizen is not the only project they’re working on.

Smaller than mainstream titles: I can’t give Star Citizen this one. Going just by the funding page on the Star Citizen website there are 1,883,468 people who have invested. Sure, it isn’t the millions that WoW has but it isn’t small by any means.

Not financially backed by video game publishers: Star Citizen is backed by the players. There is no publisher involved in the process whatsoever. Yes for Star Citizen!

Little to no budget: This is where that 159,989,092 dollars comes back into play. That isn’t the budget of an indie game. That’s something you’d expect to see on a massive, publisher backed MMO. Another no for Star Citizen.

Of the five things listed in wiki to define what an indie game is Star Citizen only meets one of them, not being financially backed by a publisher.

Cloud Imperium Games is a new kind of independent studio dedicated to delivering AAA experiences outside the established publisher system, Founded by Chris Roberts, creator of the best selling Wing Commander and Freelancer series, Cloud Imperium is currently developing Star Citizen, a record-shattering crowd funded title that combines classic space sim gameplay with Hollywood-caliber visuals.

Source

Better go tell C.I.G. they are not an independent developer, they must have got it wrong.

Employee numbers are irrelevant. "commonly created by individual or small teams" does mean an independent developer has to be a small team.

Star Citizen is the only project they are working on, Squadron 42 is the single player side of the same game. A publisher funds many developers and hold publishing rights as well as usually owning the I.P. They often directly own several development studios working on many different products.

Backers are not investors, we have no financial claim on the company. I suggest you read the pledge terms of service. Investors buy company shares to get a return on their investment, not just a game to play that anyone who does not back the production will be able to buy upon release and then 'earn' everything that is for sale in the game through play time.

Budget is irrelevant. Star Citizen having the second largest development budget (discounting marketing) has nothing to do with their status as an independent developer.

You like Wiki then you'll love this page.

Not necessarily. But it still got more coverage compared to say the first game.

Which, was in a wierd position for GOTY. Beating out the game that won GOTY on the PC platform (despite the PC version being the best one), yet somehow losing overall.

I'm not sure what game you are talking about. I'm aware of RNG: Original Sin 2, but Divinity? Not sure...

Seriously, this circle-**** over D:OS2 is going set RPGs back a decade or better. The entire game is based around RNG. Everything from loot drops, to ability/spell rolls, to crafting. How is that at all fun? I just don't get it at all.

I remember playing the "Enhanced" Edition of the first one and 12+ hours in I had yet to see an upgrade for any of my characters over stuff I got in the first hour or two. Not to mention how annoying/cheesy the CC was. Every battle was either a cake-walk or a frustrating slog solely depending on who landed their opening CC abilities.

None of that has really changed in the sequel, all they did is paste a marginally less ridiculous/poor-written/cliche story and add even more RNG systems.

It is unbelievably frustrating to see D:OS and D:OS2 get such high praise when the only "RPG" elements that the game has are the character customization and combat. The story-telling, characters, and interactions are worse than mediocre in both games.

you must have played a different game

So yea, the core gameplay is leagues ahead of other CRPGs.. you hit the nail on the head.

The narrative is abit pants... but gameplay > story.

It's too good to be GOTY.

GOTY needs to go to something "pop", like the Britney Spears of games. So probably Zelda or something.

To you maybe. I can stomach a mediocre combat system as long as the narrative is good. I wont play an RPG with a garbage narrative no matter how good the combat is (I don't agree it is btw), there is nothing motivating me to continue playing if I'm not interested in the narrative.

EDIT - This is how I see the conversation on how to build the combat system went.

Lead Dev: So I want there to be this really engaging combat system that is challenging and satisfying.

Dev 1: Ok lets start with making all the ability rolls completely RNG dependent that should make it challenging.

Dev 2: Yeah and lets make it so the player only has a super low likelihood of getting any useful gear, that should help.

Lead Dev: Why don't we start with making engaging mechanics that are difficult to master.

Dev 2: Or we could start with a super complex ability combo system that is useless 90% of the time.

Dev 1: Yeah and then we could invalidate it by making CC so overpowering that is completely controls the flow of combat.

Lead Dev: Guys, I said I want it to be challenging and satisfying, not frustrating.

*Dev 1 and 2 whisper back and forth for several minutes*

Dev 1: We don't understand the difference...

Lead Dev: Fine, just slap enough RNG on it so that the players have to save-scum half a dozen times on boss battles to get good rolls. As long as the combo system is stupidly complex we can still say player can play the way they want.

@SerOlmy: Have you actually played the game if you say combat is nothing but rng?

@howmakewood:

I played the original. By all accounts the combat is the same + more combo/interactions.

so you are just shitting on a game you havent even played, think we are done here

Sooo...you're saying you suck at the game?

I never played the first one, but picked this one up after seeing the IGN and GameSpot reviews. Interesting game, and that's from someone who thought Divinity 2 was more PoE/Diablo than turn-based.

My one complaint is that the game doesn't really have a narrative or a guiding reason for doing anything, you kind of just exist in a place and try to discover a way to leave it.

Also, the combat is brutal.

@knight-k:

Nice comeback Potsy.

I never said I couldn't do it. I said I find it immensely unsatisfying. I don't feel accomplishment for completing a tough battle, just relief that the frustration is over. The Pontious Pirate fight from the first game is a prime example of shitty encounter design. Tons of random CC and 1-shot kill mechanics that can result in multiple failed attempts. Once you figure out there is an "I-win-button" it becomes a joke. Compare that with the encounter that finishes the murder mystery, which is stupidly easy to handle on the first try. There is no middle ground, it is either frustrating slog or laughably easy, as I said I find that immensely unsatisfying to deal with.

the story becomes more clear once you get off that first island.

for now, just focus on finding a way to escape, and understanding some of the narrative context (ig. why the Magisters are holding Sourcereres as prisoners etc.) Take your time, explore, talk to everyone. 'try to discover a way to leave it' is the right attitude.

First things first, thank you.

Second, I get why the Magisters are doing what they're doing. It is just that this game no overarching story that guides the player, it is more "hey, this is happening...now deal with it"

But stuff like how you can kill the women who sunk the ship and was in the opening cinematic in the first couple of hours really had me questioning what was going on.

I am 19 hours in an on the first island, and level 6. So I'm definitely taking my time

What is your comparison?

As far as CRPGs goes... its one of the best... no, the best.

Wow. The more I play this game the more I think 'Wow this is a fucking awesome game'

Yeah I'm not sure what he means by heavily RNG based.

I thought the chance to inflict status effects was determined by how much magical/physical armor the target has left, and if they have none, it always lands?

I'm not that far in, so I could be wrong.

no you are correct. there is actually not that much RNG at all, just hit percentages (how likely you are to land a blow) which don't play as big a role as in something like XCOM

There's no chance, it either lands or doesnt based on phys/magical armor, but how it works that if the target has say 50magic armor and you use the dwarf petrify that does say 80 dmg and petrify(protected by magical armor), first the dmg shreds then remaining shield and petrify gets applied, but if the spell did under 50magic dmg then petrify wouldn't go through

These sound like the complaints of a millenial who never even played actual pen and paper RPGs.

RNG has ALWAYS defined traditional RPGs.

Hit dice much? Saving throws? Perception checks? etc.

As someone who hasn't enjoyed an RPG in years, I took the plunge and picked this up and I am beyond pleased. Isometric turn-based RPGs are the way a CRPG should be presented. For all the comparisons to Baldur's Gate I've seen, I actually see more similarities to Ultima VI. The backpack/container interface is straight outta U6 and my first interaction with it brought back the old school nostalgia as I dragged it around the screen.

I think it deserves GotY recognition, but I also recognize that this is console spot.

Indeed, the director of the game, Sven is also a huge fan of the Ultima series.

Game is more addicting than crack.

The different dialog options you get based on your tags are fun. Some don't really have much actual gameplay consequence but the jester lets you say some pretty funny and sassy stuff. :)

Yup...typical millennial storyf*g