Do we really want the Wii to win?

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]I know a lot of Nintendo fans see the Wii winning this gen due to the excellent sales it's already received, and it's a fair prediction, just like either PS3/360 winning this gen. I also know a lot of Sony/MS fans expect the Wii to win but I'm asking you right now:

Do we really want the Wii to win?

Think about the consequences for a second. If Wii wins both Sony and MS next gen will not upgrade their hardware significantly next gen and add something innovative like a touch pen, or Wiimote to their console to increase creativity among devs. Many seem to forget that devs can be creative or innovative with normal controllers/hardware too, like Okami for PS2, or Shadow of the Colossus. If Wii wins, next gen will be targeted mainly at non gamers who enjoy games like Wiisports, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Singstar etc.

I'm not saying "Don't buy a Wii" because I think it's a great console and I would like to see it fair much better than the GC but I certainly don't want it to win because it's quite obvious what effect that will have on the market. I just wanted to point that out. In any case I don't see it winning because I don't think it will be able to compete when GT5, Halo 3, GTAIV, FFXIII, MGSIV all arrive and take the media's attention.

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = good games route?


matteno1

I know a lot of Nintendo fans see the Wii winning this gen due to the excellent sales it's already received, and it's a fair prediction, just like either PS3/360 winning this gen. I also know a lot of Sony/MS fans expect the Wii to win but I'm asking you right now:

Do we really want the Wii to win?

Think about the consequences for a second. If Wii wins both Sony and MS next gen will not upgrade their hardware significantly next gen and add something innovative like a touch pen, or Wiimote to their console to increase creativity among devs. Many seem to forget that devs can be creative or innovative with normal controllers/hardware too, like Okami for PS2, or Shadow of the Colossus. If Wii wins, next gen will be targeted mainly at non gamers who enjoy games like Wiisports, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Singstar etc.

I'm not saying "Don't buy a Wii" because I think it's a great console and I would like to see it fair much better than the GC but I certainly don't want it to win because it's quite obvious what effect that will have on the market. I just wanted to point that out. In any case I don't see it winning because I don't think it will be able to compete when GT5, Halo 3, GTAIV, FFXIII, MGSIV all arrive and take the media's attention.

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = good games route?


the-very-best

[QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.Gamer46

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

[QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.Gamer46

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

Wrong.  My problem with Nintendo isn't that it's console it the least powerful.  It's that they're focusing too much on games for non-gamers and not enough on games for the more hardcore crowd.  Sorry, but Cooking Mama or Wii Play does not appeal to a majority of hardcore gamers.  At least not the ones I know.

Also, I'd just like to point out that while PSone and PS2 weren't the most powerful consoles on the market, at least they did a decent job.  The games did not look as good as they did on competing consoles, but the gap was no where near as ridiculous as it is between Wii and 360/PS3, only a fool would argue otherwise.

1. that was the point of selling it to non gamers

2. there is hardcore games (and gamers there)

3. yea you got to ingore the other games too? Mp3, smg, no more heros, sadness, raid over river

4.  this is the so stupid statemnet when havent seen wii powerful yet. we all know its not going to be near 360 or ps3. but its not as bad as a leap you making it sound it be in between xbox and 360

5. decent job my ***

6.

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.matteno1

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

Wrong.  My problem with Nintendo isn't that it's console it the least powerful.  It's that they're focusing too much on games for non-gamers and not enough on games for the more hardcore crowd.  Sorry, but Cooking Mama or Wii Play does not appeal to a majority of hardcore gamers.  At least not the ones I know.

Also, I'd just like to point out that while PSone and PS2 weren't the most powerful consoles on the market, at least they did a decent job.  The games did not look as good as they did on competing consoles, but the gap was no where near as ridiculous as it is between Wii and 360/PS3, only a fool would argue otherwise.

he is just a plain lame troll like almost everyone here

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]I know a lot of Nintendo fans see the Wii winning this gen due to the excellent sales it's already received, and it's a fair prediction, just like either PS3/360 winning this gen. I also know a lot of Sony/MS fans expect the Wii to win but I'm asking you right now:

Do we really want the Wii to win?

Think about the consequences for a second. If Wii wins both Sony and MS next gen will not upgrade their hardware significantly next gen and add something innovative like a touch pen, or Wiimote to their console to increase creativity among devs. Many seem to forget that devs can be creative or innovative with normal controllers/hardware too, like Okami for PS2, or Shadow of the Colossus. If Wii wins, next gen will be targeted mainly at non gamers who enjoy games like Wiisports, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Singstar etc.

I'm not saying "Don't buy a Wii" because I think it's a great console and I would like to see it fair much better than the GC but I certainly don't want it to win because it's quite obvious what effect that will have on the market. I just wanted to point that out. In any case I don't see it winning because I don't think it will be able to compete when GT5, Halo 3, GTAIV, FFXIII, MGSIV all arrive and take the media's attention.

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = good games route?


Blue-Sphere

Seriously though, you could look at it another way and say that if the Wii loses, then there won't be any sigificant innovations made, at least within the next gen or so, because if Nintendo couldn't pull it off, what would make MS or Sony think they could? Egos aside of course. If the Wii wins, don't you believe that that would lead to all systems having a little bit of everything?

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]I know a lot of Nintendo fans see the Wii winning this gen due to the excellent sales it's already received, and it's a fair prediction, just like either PS3/360 winning this gen. I also know a lot of Sony/MS fans expect the Wii to win but I'm asking you right now:

Do we really want the Wii to win?

Think about the consequences for a second. If Wii wins both Sony and MS next gen will not upgrade their hardware significantly next gen and add something innovative like a touch pen, or Wiimote to their console to increase creativity among devs. Many seem to forget that devs can be creative or innovative with normal controllers/hardware too, like Okami for PS2, or Shadow of the Colossus. If Wii wins, next gen will be targeted mainly at non gamers who enjoy games like Wiisports, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Singstar etc.

I'm not saying "Don't buy a Wii" because I think it's a great console and I would like to see it fair much better than the GC but I certainly don't want it to win because it's quite obvious what effect that will have on the market. I just wanted to point that out. In any case I don't see it winning because I don't think it will be able to compete when GT5, Halo 3, GTAIV, FFXIII, MGSIV all arrive and take the media's attention.

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = good games route?


Blue-Sphere

Seriously though, you could look at it another way and say that if the Wii loses, then there won't be any sigificant innovations made, at least within the next gen or so, because if Nintendo couldn't pull it off, what would make MS or Sony think they could? Egos aside of course. If the Wii wins, don't you believe that that would lead to all systems having a little bit of everything?

[QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.matteno1

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

Well it's creating enough gamers to make you sweat and moan. Seriously, have you ever played anything like those games? The DO push the envelope.matteno1

[QUOTE="matteno1"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.Gamer46

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

I do want the Wii to win because I view it as a matter of battling business strategies.
Microsoft and Sony's business strategies seem to be "More and better". They provide consoles with plenty of high tech and multimedia capabilities. However, they're engaging in the power race very recklessly. What are the results? Well, you have a high tech piece of equipment, which pleases the hardcore, but you have a high priced piece of hardware ($400 for the 360, $600 for the PS3) that serves as a strong deterrant to non-hardcore gamers picking up the console, and the dramatic increases in development prices put a pinch on developers and publishers trying to make a buck, causing a trend away from riskier games and towards more proven formulas, resulting in a creative dirth of the industry.

--> You must consider as well that when PS2, GC, and XBox were in competition, the price difference was not as big as of todays generation.  Second, the last gen has no product differential, you just pick the console with the most popular games. In case of the Wii, they have penetrated the casual market introduce more new gamers than X360 and PS3 did as the sales proved it. Product differential, price, positive media and consumer reaction, and broad target market as the reasons why the Wii is selling so fast.

Nintendo, by contrast, takes a more wide-market approach. They've sacrificed hardware advancements to create a more affordable machine, making it more accessible to everyone, and using the controller, they've created a console which results in something unique. Further, this results in a much more developer friendly console, with lower development times and costs. That results in games which are more unique and creative, as the potential loss from a bomb is smaller. Be honest, do you think we'd see games like Opoona, Elebits, or Treasure Hunter Z on the 360 or PS3? Potentially, yes, but I believe we'd be more likely to get something less original and creative in design.
And even the loss in hardware is overstated. Yes, the Wii isn't nearly as powerful as the 360 or PS3, but it has plenty of power yet to be unlocked. I think we'll see within the next year or so games that will look simply awesome at 480p.

As for the whole minigames argument, I ask, how many copies did Mario Party sell during the life of the GameCube? How many copies of Singstar and Buzz! were sold? How many copies of WarioWare Touched, Feel the Magic, etc sold? Yet, the GameCube, PS2, and DS all have a strong library of games aimed at the hardcore. Why? Because casuals may make up a larger market share, but they don't buy games with the frequency hardcore gamers do.

--> So true, it has always been true that casuals + non-gamers buys most of the consoles compare to hardcores.

Frankly, I think the business paths Microsoft and Sony are following lead to destruction, forcing the gaming hobby further into the niche status by making it less appealing to the general populace. Becuase I believe the wide-market strategy of the Wii is necessary for the future of gaming, I do want the Wii to win.

--> The plan of MS and Sony is to conquer your entire home entertainment. Sounds good but in reality, it will cost a lot as proven by the prices of the X360 + add-ons, and PS3 plus add-ons. If it does go their way, consoles will be no longer consoles and the price of the consoles plus games will drastically increase like what happened to X360 and PS3.

Hell to the no!!! If the Wii wins, this will the be the most embarrasing thing the gaming community has faced. FFVII_Madness55

err, if the Wii wins, most of the gaming community will own a Wii.

Systems are not based on the successful systems before them:

the weakest system, the PS2, won last gen and this gen Sony and MS have tried to make the most powerfull system and Nintendo have made something revolutionary. Can you draw similarities here?

[QUOTE="matteno1"][QUOTE="Gamer46"][QUOTE="wavebrid"]

[QUOTE="Gamer46"]Should we want the Wii to win? No. Will it win? Unfortunately, yes.Gamer46

so accodring to your logic pc should be winiining all the time...

ps2 - less powerful and grapchis

ps1 - same

n64- powerful than ps1 and grapchis better

cube- powerful and grpachis better than ps2

xbox- powerful than all of them

so accodring to you logic it should go nes, sega, dreacast, n64, xbox, ps3

Wrong. My problem with Nintendo isn't that it's console it the least powerful. It's that they're focusing too much on games for non-gamers and not enough on games for the more hardcore crowd. Sorry, but Cooking Mama or Wii Play does not appeal to a majority of hardcore gamers. At least not the ones I know.

Also, I'd just like to point out that while PSone and PS2 weren't the most powerful consoles on the market, at least they did a decent job. The games did not look as good as they did on competing consoles, but the gap was no where near as ridiculous as it is between Wii and 360/PS3, only a fool would argue otherwise.

But it won't. Devs will make games for hardcore and non-gamers because although there are more non-gamers, hardcore gamers buy ten times as many games as non-gamers

The Wii has to sell more than the Xbox 360 before anyone can get really scared about Nintendo killing off hardcore gaming or can say that the Wii is winning.

I was a cube owner last generation and was sick of the number of games that were cancelled because the console wasn't so popular so I'm glad that the Wii is doing better. I've been a gamer for many years and don't feel that the Wii is going to kill of gaming. If people don't like the Wii then don't buy one. You have two other alternatives.

The market is big enough for all 3 consoles to survive. People's seem to have lost their step because for once Sony aren't the leaders so far in this generation and Nintendo are doing better than in their N64 and cube days. Things change.

Heres a question for everyone in the thread.  If you're so supportive of hardcore games, why aren't you worried about consoles beating PCs?  I play both consoles and PC, but the games on PC are much more hardcore, such as Crusader Kings, Europa Univeralis and such, which are so complex that the learning curve goes beyond vertical.  Oblivion was dumbed down for consoles, so why don't you criticise the XBox 360 and PS3 for casualizing gaming?  Also, since you also seem very adament about graphics, why are you not worried that people will go to consoles, so developers will develop for consoles instead of trying to get the most out of the newest and greatest PC hardware?  PC hardware easily trumps consoles, and the hardware in consoles is easily outdated.

So pretty much, if you are going to worry about the Wii dumbing down gaming or holding back graphics, you have to also worry about all console beating PCs.  So I ask again, why aren't you also worried about them winning?

Systems are not based on the successful systems before them:

the weakest system, the PS2, won last gen and this gen Sony and MS have tried to make the most powerfull system and Nintendo have made something revolutionary. Can you draw similarities here?

Bisset

Heres a question for everyone in the thread.  If you're so supportive of hardcore games, why aren't you worried about consoles beating PCs?  I play both consoles and PC, but the games on PC are much more hardcore, such as Crusader Kings, Europa Univeralis and such, which are so complex that the learning curve goes beyond vertical.  Oblivion was dumbed down for consoles, so why don't you criticise the XBox 360 and PS3 for casualizing gaming?  Also, since you also seem very adament about graphics, why are you not worried that people will go to consoles, so developers will develop for consoles instead of trying to get the most out of the newest and greatest PC hardware?  PC hardware easily trumps consoles, and the hardware in consoles is easily outdated.

So pretty much, if you are going to worry about the Wii dumbing down gaming or holding back graphics, you have to also worry about all console beating PCs.  So I ask again, why aren't you also worried about them winning?

jeffwulf

Some of you people are so melodramatic it's hilarious.Ultimate_Peon

I know a lot of Nintendo fans see the Wii winning this gen due to the excellent sales it's already received, and it's a fair prediction, just like either PS3/360 winning this gen. I also know a lot of Sony/MS fans expect the Wii to win but I'm asking you right now:

Do we really want the Wii to win?

Think about the consequences for a second. If Wii wins both Sony and MS next gen will not upgrade their hardware significantly next gen and add something innovative like a touch pen, or Wiimote to their console to increase creativity among devs. Many seem to forget that devs can be creative or innovative with normal controllers/hardware too, like Okami for PS2, or Shadow of the Colossus. If Wii wins, next gen will be targeted mainly at non gamers who enjoy games like Wiisports, Nintendogs, Brain Training, Singstar etc.

I'm not saying "Don't buy a Wii" because I think it's a great console and I would like to see it fair much better than the GC but I certainly don't want it to win because it's quite obvious what effect that will have on the market. I just wanted to point that out. In any case I don't see it winning because I don't think it will be able to compete when GT5, Halo 3, GTAIV, FFXIII, MGSIV all arrive and take the media's attention.

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = good games route?


the-very-best

Even if wii wins; it's not going to stop sony, and m$ from upgrading their console. ninjiijitsu

What do you think? If Wii wins, would you be OK with MS/Sony not upgrading their hardware too much and focusing more on creativity or would you rather they take strong hardware + great graphics = crappy games route?

Im OK with that.