do you consider rushing in a rts game cheating

[QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]

Wow, really? If you can't stop the Arbiter that's your fault. I've done it plenty of times and even when I use Arbiter, the good players know how to stop it.

I hate when people cry about cheating. It's your lack of skill. If you're going to cry, cry about something that is not balanced. Almost everything in every game can be countered, people just have this stupid honor code so they instead just cry about it.

[QUOTE="Mr_Apple_Soup"]

:lol: would you rather every game be 2-4 hours long?

i'm only stating that because everything else has already been sumed up in the thread

....yes?

No, I for one love rushers, I'm an excellent defensive player and I rarely go on the offensive first, even if I do I retreat quite often but due to my naturally defensive nature i destroy players who rush. Take WC3 for example, if they try that early BM strat on me while playing NE I quickly exploded my wisps(the ones he are killing) on thier BM and use dust to make sure he can't WW(I always buy dust against orcs) away before I trap him. Doing so not only minimizes my losses, it also makes his hero handicapped for sometime.

yeah i like matches to be very long after you win you feal like you won and even if you lose you go out knowing you had a good fight. EmperorZeruel

Its the same kind of thing as people calling you cheap by throwing in street fighter, its not. Cheating implies using external resources thats not part of the construct of the original game.

Rushing, in starcraft terms, called 'cheese builds', are nothing more than unorthodox plays. They're meant to catch the opponent off guard. And rush strategies are part of the game, so its not considered cheating.

And also, a 'rush' should mean that you get attacked very early on in the game, but never in the history of RTS games was there a 'standard' for measuring what is called early game, mid game, or late game. So if you're still in early tier tech and your opponent is not and he attacks you, it just means you're slow, and you suck.

For me, playing defensively is more "cheating" than rushing, and kind of coward. But the true is that the only cheat in those games are the cheat codes.

dont some rts tournaments have a no rush rule

EmperorZeruel

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Ultimately a skilled RTS player will keep you from being able to establish an effective economy, build "uber" units, explore the map, or tech as quickly as they do via harassment, rushing, constant warefare, deceptive moves, etc - and all that is going to *annoy you*. But the reality is simple - they're better at the game. If you're not using those tactics, you need to learn them, because that *is* what the RTS genre is - to say otherwise would be like complaining that you have to kill enemies to win a Slayer game in an FPS.

-

If I'm scouting you, so that I can build counter-units to your anticipated build... if I'm exploring the map and capturing critical locations / resources... if I'm carefully selecting and placing my units, and using early-game attacks to slow down your growth speed relative to mine... aren't I a more skilled STRATEGIC gamer than you? Aren't I using multiple strategies and techniques effectively while you're continuing to use a losing strategy? And if you can't adapt in *real time* then do you have a real-time strategy?

Its not cheating, but depending on the game and x.xx patch version it could be considered extreme cheese. Zerg rushing was freaking broken when SC was released, thats why Blizzard upped the spawing pool cost and changed the spawn rate of hatchlings. Also, I remember in WC3 vanilla a farseer + tower rush was extremely difficult to counter... Making it pretty lame, but not "cheating".

I can't wait till SC2 comes out to hear all the crying about rushing.

For me, playing defensively is more "cheating" than rushing, and kind of coward. But the true is that the only cheat in those games are the cheat codes.

DealRogers

Defensive players and offensive players have different mindsets and different outlooks of the battlefield. It's no more cowardly than a harrassing player by attacking outpost and nodes that have little to no defenses. I play defensively and gradually take control of the map while making sure behind me is safe. I HATE losing units, I minimize losses at all times and I never attack head on unless I know I can win. I also out tech oppenents very easily if they are careless and lose units while harrassing me, and if they do not scout properly or are just bad, I overwhelm them with higher tier units and abilities. I am generally bad at 1v1, but 3v3 is where I shine.

Its not cheating, but depending on the game and x.xx patch version it could be considered extreme cheese. Zerg rushing was freaking broken when SC was released, thats why Blizzard upped the spawing pool cost and changed the spawn rate of hatchlings. Also, I remember in WC3 vanilla a farseer + tower rush was extremely difficult to counter... Making it pretty lame, but not "cheating".

I can't wait till SC2 comes out to hear all the crying about rushing.

CassiusGaius

Huntress spam was pretty horrible as well. Which is why the ended up changing the armour type.

[QUOTE="DealRogers"]

For me, playing defensively is more "cheating" than rushing, and kind of coward. But the true is that the only cheat in those games are the cheat codes.

Defensive players and offensive players have different mindsets and different outlooks of the battlefield. It's no more cowardly than a harrassing player by attacking outpost and nodes that have little to no defenses. I play defensively and gradually take control of the map while making sure behind me is safe. I HATE losing units, I minimize losses at all times and I never attack head on unless I know I can win. I also out tech oppenents very easily if they are careless and lose units while harrassing me, and if they do not scout properly or are just bad, I overwhelm them with higher tier units and abilities. I am generally bad at 1v1, but 3v3 is where I shine.

i don't think so

i'm not an RTS expert, but i figure that defending against rushes is sort of part of the whole real time strategy thing

It's not cheating it just means they suck... 4 pool FTW!!

[QUOTE="RobNBankz"]

[QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"] A couple of flamers, UNSC, and a d-bomb will kill the arbie early. By the time he respawns, you should already have your cobra / wolverine mix or upgraded mac / carpet bombs. The arbiter is a glass cannon, the main people who complain about him are players who rely on turrets, fail to build early game infantry, and don't understand proper scouting. [QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

[QUOTE="Mr_Apple_Soup"]

:lol: would you rather every game be 2-4 hours long?

i'm only stating that because everything else has already been sumed up in the thread

subrosian

....yes?

Everything I bolded has nothing to do with anything. I never said anything about just building bases or refusing to attack each other. I enjoy RTS games were the game lasts long. Maybe 2-4 hours is extending it a bit but the games is Sins of a solar empire do last pretty long.

Why would it be part of the game if it's cheating?

[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"][QUOTE="Mr_Apple_Soup"]

and you have that kind of time...?

krp008

Im sorry but i have a life. Get in, get out, get the win, the end!

Just rush back.

No. If there is an unbalanced unit or unfair tactic (*cough* Arbiter Rush in Halo Wars *cough*), I don't think it is cool to abuse it.II-FBIsniper-II

Wow, really? If you can't stop the Arbiter that's your fault. I've done it plenty of times and even when I use Arbiter, the good players know how to stop it.

I hate when people cry about cheating. It's your lack of skill. If you're going to cry, cry about something that is not balanced. Almost everything in every game can be countered, people just have this stupid honor code so they instead just cry about it.

No, it's not cheating, but I do prefer building up my base and army to rushing. I guess I just like to take my time when I play games.Zhengi

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]No, it's not cheating, but I do prefer building up my base and army to rushing. I guess I just like to take my time when I play games.DonPerian

Its not a cheap tactic. Just build better defences. And some RTS games encourage rushing as well.

Can't stand the heat? Get out of the fire and stop crying about it... if you can't defend against me, you will become one with the Swarm.

kekekekekekekekekekekekekekekekekekekekeke

[QUOTE="Zhengi"]No, it's not cheating, but I do prefer building up my base and army to rushing. I guess I just like to take my time when I play games.DonPerian

Cheap tactics? How so...

The aim of the game is to win... if you see an opening, wouldn't you take advantage of it?

No I do not OP. This is a stupid thread, its like if I created a topic: do you consider sniping in a fps game cheating. If you complain about rushing you are probably a noob who is playing a rts that is too fast paced for your skill level.

Hahaha...no. If you can't defend against a rush then stop playing RTS games.

Ross_the_B0SS

Exactly

[QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]No. If there is an unbalanced unit or unfair tactic (*cough* Arbiter Rush in Halo Wars *cough*), I don't think it is cool to abuse it.RobNBankz

I surprise my opponents by not rushing.

Rushing is one of the reason I hate Command and Conquer online and much prefer Dawn of War 2. It's just a cheap way of winning.

Rushing? You mean like this?

Nah, It may be a noob move but your only going to beat other noobs. When I first started playing WCIII I used huntress rush, after you start moving up the latter you really can't use it anymore when yougo upagainst better players.

[QUOTE="RobNBankz"]

Wow, really? If you can't stop the Arbiter that's your fault. I've done it plenty of times and even when I use Arbiter, the good players know how to stop it.

I hate when people cry about cheating. It's your lack of skill. If you're going to cry, cry about something that is not balanced. Almost everything in every game can be countered, people just have this stupid honor code so they instead just cry about it.

subrosian

Exactly. Also, I'm not sure how to use it but I know the EMP bomb is great against Arbiter. Once you take away his Rage he's basically useless. Personally, if anyone wants to cry about something it should be a scarab. Those things are just ridiculous.

I can't really complain about it though. When I know I'm going against someone worse than me (which somehow happens a lot, kind of sad considering Halo Wars is my first RTS and I barely play it) I usually max out my Arbiter and build two scarabs. The other person usually just resigns because most people don't even know how to stop one scarab.

So I've been cheating all this time...

Rushing? You mean like this?

Arsuz

Oh man, you just increased my SC II hype by a mile

PD: I know a guy that likes to attack with Photon cannons, now, that's cheating

Rushing is one of the reason I hate Command and Conquer online and much prefer Dawn of War 2. It's just a cheap way of winning.

Deihmos

It's not cheap, your just not good enough.

If the game normally allows it to occur, then it isn't cheating. That's my philosophy. Live by it. ;)

Halo superbounce? Not cheating. Halo's BXB? Not cheating. Modding the Xbox and making your character invincible? That's cheating.

Do what you want, pal. If they cry about cheating, they're just crying because they lost. That's all. Tell them to suck it up and get better.

[QUOTE="Deihmos"]

Rushing is one of the reason I hate Command and Conquer online and much prefer Dawn of War 2. It's just a cheap way of winning.

It's not cheap, your just not good enough.

[QUOTE="EmperorZeruel"]

dont some rts tournaments have a no rush rule

Ek-Andy

Yeah, too many fights broke out over differing tastes in music.

I LOL'd at this for a good few minutes!!

I wish more places had a no Rush rule...

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="Deihmos"]

Rushing is one of the reason I hate Command and Conquer online and much prefer Dawn of War 2. It's just a cheap way of winning.

Deihmos

It's not cheap, your just not good enough.

Just defend yourself for Christ sake! You call it cheap because your not good enough, that's the bottom line.

[QUOTE="Deihmos"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

It's not cheap, your just not good enough.

Bebi_vegeta

Just defend yourself for Christ sake! You call it cheap because your not good enough, that's the bottom line.

No...it's not cheating. IT's just a tactic, and it's very hard to pull off, with high risk. Most new players have a hard time dealing with rushes because thy don't know howto play properly, building defenses, scouting land, etc. As for why tournements sometime ban rushes....well, 2 reasons really: 1) IT's a tournment run by scrubs. In other words, their just whiny little gamers, so the tourney is a joke anyways. 2) They just want to draw the matches out. After all, tourney holders don't want matches to end in 5 minutes. Because a good rush could very well finish off the enemy, and a failed rush usually results in the death of the rushing player. And although this is just part of the game, and is part of the skill involved, it doesn't always make for an excitign match if the games over in 5 minutes. But generally, I'd say most crediable tournements don't have a rule like that, because it's just part of the game...and part of weeding out bad players.darkslider99

Nah, the rush is nowhere near a cheap tactic.

a CHEAP tactic is what one of my buddies used to do back when we were all doing LAN parties and playing Age of Empires 2, namely building a castle right outside your walls so its defenses would knock out a huge portion of your base. THAT'S cheap!

Hahaha...no. If you can't defend against a rush then stop playing RTS games.

Ross_the_B0SS

[QUOTE="Deihmos"]

Rushing is one of the reason I hate Command and Conquer online and much prefer Dawn of War 2. It's just a cheap way of winning.

It's not cheap, your just not good enough.

lawl @ this thread zealot rush ftw.Ewok432

[QUOTE="Ewok432"]lawl @ this thread zealot rush ftw.DealRogers