Do you need to play the other Metal Gear games to understand 4?

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skrat_01

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#201 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

If they are not trying to be ultra serious then make it a fantasy game, what's with historical events and military $hit.

zeeshanhaider

What's to say they can't do what they want? COD is extremely stupid and hyper-realistic in its portrayal of reality, Shogun 2 aims to create a historical backdrop for players to rewrite history with contextually accurate things. MGS is hyper-realistic with a mix of science fiction and fantasy; it's all pretty Japanese in its blend of elements - and it's capitalised on to build plot and characters, which is what gives the game so much character, separating it from something like Thief (which also mixes fantasy and steampunk/sci-fi) but in a medieval setting. That's the nature of fiction, if you don't dig what it's doing, 'scool.

No matter how you spin MGS games are crap, both in gameplay and in storyline. Seriously nothing in MGS makes sense. Only the baddies have super human strength, not you and govt. always send you alone on a mission without anything. In one half the ENEMY is trying to kill you in the next half it's on your side, WTF is all this? Big Boss won't die no matter what, it will always reborn in the next game, I guess these kind of things are common to all Japanese games that's why I generally don't like Japanese games. All in all MGS doesn't make any sense and simply sucks.

Hm? If you're going to say they're crap, you're going to have to do better then state something bathed in your own subjectivity. Again, it's hyper-realism, and it's a game, the game contextualises its absurdity most of the time very well within its own fiction (which isn't to say it isn't horrible here and there - see MGS2 and 4); which is a testament to how well it's melodramatic cheesy writing works, and mechanically the games all play well, and are generally well designed. MGS makes sense in its own absurd way, and I'd never disagree that's it's outright dumb to the extreme at times (that's why I like no.3 the most it's the most grounded, which says something about a game where a man shoots bees at you), but you're going to have to judge the game for what it is - it isn't trying to be po-faced and non-absurd, it's trying to be ridiculous. And that's why the protagonist characters generally aren't absurd or ridiculous; because they're all one man against all odds and adversaries, heroic tales at the end of the day- it's fantasy fiction - it's like saying Clash of the Titans is silly because the Gods are fictionally OP compared to our hero-protagonist. Which is why MGS Revengence is a huge departure - it has a protagonist who defies that. But that's cool if you don't like it because of it, you're not wrong for disliking it, but that doesn't mean it's bad. MGS isn't bad, and I've got lots of bad things to say about MGS myself.
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rockydog1111

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#202 rockydog1111
Member since 2006 • 2079 Posts

I have played every single MG game made, and I still find the whole story very confusing. I would definately play the others first though. I love each game on it's own merit, but as a group of games, they are amazing.

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#203 ultraking
Member since 2004 • 6904 Posts

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

If they are not trying to be ultra serious then make it a fantasy game, what's with historical events and military $hit.

zeeshanhaider

What's to say they can't do what they want? COD is extremely stupid and hyper-realistic in its portrayal of reality, Shogun 2 aims to create a historical backdrop for players to rewrite history with contextually accurate things. MGS is hyper-realistic with a mix of science fiction and fantasy; it's all pretty Japanese in its blend of elements - and it's capitalised on to build plot and characters, which is what gives the game so much character, separating it from something like Thief (which also mixes fantasy and steampunk/sci-fi) but in a medieval setting. That's the nature of fiction, if you don't dig what it's doing, 'scool.

No matter how you spin MGS games are crap, both in gameplay and in storyline. Seriously nothing in MGS makes sense. Only the baddies have super human strength, not you and govt. always send you alone on a mission without anything. In one half the ENEMY is trying to kill you in the next half it's on your side, WTF is all this? Big Boss won't die no matter what, it will always reborn in the next game, I guess these kind of things are common to all Japanese games that's why I generally don't like Japanese games. All in all MGS doesn't make any sense and simply sucks.

so much wrong with your post
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zeeshanhaider

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#204 zeeshanhaider
Member since 2004 • 5524 Posts

[QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]What's to say they can't do what they want? COD is extremely stupid and hyper-realistic in its portrayal of reality, Shogun 2 aims to create a historical backdrop for players to rewrite history with contextually accurate things. MGS is hyper-realistic with a mix of science fiction and fantasy; it's all pretty Japanese in its blend of elements - and it's capitalised on to build plot and characters, which is what gives the game so much character, separating it from something like Thief (which also mixes fantasy and steampunk/sci-fi) but in a medieval setting. That's the nature of fiction, if you don't dig what it's doing, 'scool.skrat_01

No matter how you spin MGS games are crap, both in gameplay and in storyline. Seriously nothing in MGS makes sense. Only the baddies have super human strength, not you and govt. always send you alone on a mission without anything. In one half the ENEMY is trying to kill you in the next half it's on your side, WTF is all this? Big Boss won't die no matter what, it will always reborn in the next game, I guess these kind of things are common to all Japanese games that's why I generally don't like Japanese games. All in all MGS doesn't make any sense and simply sucks.

Hm? If you're going to say they're crap, you're going to have to do better then state something bathed in your own subjectivity. Again, it's hyper-realism, and it's a game, the game contextualises its absurdity most of the time very well within its own fiction (which isn't to say it isn't horrible here and there - see MGS2 and 4); which is a testament to how well it's melodramatic cheesy writing works, and mechanically the games all play well, and are generally well designed. MGS makes sense in its own absurd way, and I'd never disagree that's it's outright dumb to the extreme at times (that's why I like no.3 the most it's the most grounded, which says something about a game where a man shoots bees at you), but you're going to have to judge the game for what it is - it isn't trying to be po-faced and non-absurd, it's trying to be ridiculous. And that's why the protagonist characters generally aren't absurd or ridiculous; because they're all one man against all odds and adversaries, heroic tales at the end of the day- it's fantasy fiction - it's like saying Clash of the Titans is silly because the Gods are fictionally OP compared to our hero-protagonist. Which is why MGS Revengence is a huge departure - it has a protagonist who defies that. But that's cool if you don't like it because of it, you're not wrong for disliking it, but that doesn't mean it's bad. MGS isn't bad, and I've got lots of bad things to say about MGS myself.

Well Clash of the Titans make sense beacuse their two different sides fighting. In MGS the good guys never has the super-human strength, only the baddies. If you are Playing as BB you'are a simple soldier but if you are aginst BB, BB has recruited guys with super human abilities. If badies can hire such super-human soldiers I'm sure the govt. could do the same. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but there's something about MGS that really feels stupid and honestly I never liked its gameplay either.

Well, to each to their own, I guess.

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fadersdream

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#205 fadersdream
Member since 2006 • 3154 Posts

NOTHING will make you understand 4.

A testament to why creators need editors.

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BigBoss255

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#206 BigBoss255
Member since 2010 • 3539 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

I want a proper remake of the original MGS more than anything. Not that Twin Snakes sh*t.

Wiimotefan

Isn't it the same game with different cutscenes?

In a way, yes, but those cutscenes are just too far over the top even for MGS.. well actually they're over the top for Snakes portrayal. Of course Snake is always portrayed as a bad ass in MGS, but not as a super human. He's supposed to be the underdog going against impossible odds. This is especially true of MGS since Liquid has the superior genes. But in Twin Snakes you have Snake doing stupid sh*t like surfing on missiles among many other ridiculous things. He also goes way out of character, losing his cool, being way too dramatic and really just not acting like the SS we know.

Then there is the gameplay. Twin Snakes was MGS1's level design and enemy layout coupled with MGS2's gameplay mechanics. This made the game way too easy. As if shoehorning those mechanics in without balancing the other aspects wasn't enough, they also give you a tranq gun that essentially breaks the game further.

Those tend to be the major gripes.

Beyond that a lot of people feel the atmosphere of MGS was lost in Twin Snakes and I would have to agree.

The last nitpick is the voice acting. All the characters lost their accents from the original. I never had beef with this, but a lot of fans do.

Yea it definitely lost the atmosphere. They made Shadow Moses look all plastic and shiny, MGS4 managed to retain the haunted atmosphere of 1 even though it had better graphics. The crappy soundtrack didn't help either. Anyway, I agree with the people saying that there are parts of MGS 4's story that you'll never understand even if you have played the rest. It's because Kojima came up with really poor twists that weren't thought through at all. You still have to play them though. Especially 1 and 3.
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#207 Wiimotefan
Member since 2010 • 4151 Posts

Big Boss won't die no matter what, it will always reborn in the next game

zeeshanhaider

The only way this statement could be true is if you only played  MG2: Solid Snake on the MSX/NES and then went straight to MGS4 without touching the rest of the series.

Big Boss dies here.

56511928_640.jpg

And is resurected (only to die again) here.

Big_Boss--article_image.jpg

Thats a damn big gap.

 

I believe that resurecting BB was completely pointless and to be blunt, it was just stupid on their part.  But its not at all what you make it out to be.  He came back ONCE over the course of two series that in total ran for 20 years (at the time of MGS4s release).

 

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#208 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
not really, i think maybe some things would be a bit like.. wtf? but for the most part it explained everything a bit excessively 20 hours worth of video and 5 hours worth of gameplay, ... not that great of a game
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#209 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="zeeshanhaider"]

No matter how you spin MGS games are crap, both in gameplay and in storyline. Seriously nothing in MGS makes sense. Only the baddies have super human strength, not you and govt. always send you alone on a mission without anything. In one half the ENEMY is trying to kill you in the next half it's on your side, WTF is all this? Big Boss won't die no matter what, it will always reborn in the next game, I guess these kind of things are common to all Japanese games that's why I generally don't like Japanese games. All in all MGS doesn't make any sense and simply sucks.

zeeshanhaider

Hm? If you're going to say they're crap, you're going to have to do better then state something bathed in your own subjectivity. Again, it's hyper-realism, and it's a game, the game contextualises its absurdity most of the time very well within its own fiction (which isn't to say it isn't horrible here and there - see MGS2 and 4); which is a testament to how well it's melodramatic cheesy writing works, and mechanically the games all play well, and are generally well designed. MGS makes sense in its own absurd way, and I'd never disagree that's it's outright dumb to the extreme at times (that's why I like no.3 the most it's the most grounded, which says something about a game where a man shoots bees at you), but you're going to have to judge the game for what it is - it isn't trying to be po-faced and non-absurd, it's trying to be ridiculous. And that's why the protagonist characters generally aren't absurd or ridiculous; because they're all one man against all odds and adversaries, heroic tales at the end of the day- it's fantasy fiction - it's like saying Clash of the Titans is silly because the Gods are fictionally OP compared to our hero-protagonist. Which is why MGS Revengence is a huge departure - it has a protagonist who defies that. But that's cool if you don't like it because of it, you're not wrong for disliking it, but that doesn't mean it's bad. MGS isn't bad, and I've got lots of bad things to say about MGS myself.

Well Clash of the Titans make sense beacuse their two different sides fighting. In MGS the good guys never has the super-human strength, only the baddies. If you are Playing as BB you'are a simple soldier but if you are aginst BB, BB has recruited guys with super human abilities. If badies can hire such super-human soldiers I'm sure the govt. could do the same. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but there's something about MGS that really feels stupid and honestly I never liked its gameplay either.

Well, to each to their own, I guess.

You're missing the point that MGS is about a heroes journey, who is grounded in a much more real sense, then against more surreal/fantasy/science fiction enemies.

The whole point of that adaptation of the mythical Greek hero Perseus' tale, is that the Gods are defied by the people of Argos, and the hero's journey involves a man vs. supernatural tale. It's your typical heroic adventure, Metal Gear has followed the same format as with hundreds of years of fiction; they're all cut from the same cloth. By trying to pick reality from it, you're missing the point of what it actually is. That's like trying to have a debate of Batman isn't steeped in reality either, or a pseudo-intellectual discussion about Batman as a fascist. That's over reading the source material, to the extent of delving into stupidity.

In the world of Metal Gear, everything is (generally speaking) contextualised appropriately (certain things like the nanomachines and arm possession walk over the line), and it's a tale about one dude versus villains and an army (minus Acid, Portable Ops and Peace Walker). Again, it's about judging the fiction for what it is, and if you didn't like it's gameplay then well - you don't like MGS. That's fine.

At the end of the day it's no more stupid then COD's representation of reality; difference is that Metal Gear actually has character and flair, and works its material, instead of passing itself off as serious business in a real world context.Â