DVD size limiting Project Gotham Racing 4

What? reading your quoted statement from the developers says plainly they will have weather specific lighting changes.....nothing about Nightime/Daytime for each city.

darthogre

He was just giving examples. We probably will see day and night using that method he just described.

"For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

[QUOTE="MGS9150"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LOL, TLHBO.

Bu bu bu bu bu bu teh multiple discs on teh racing games :cry:

Anyways, this proves now that Blu-ray is needed.

ParadiddleFill

funny its only needed in ps3 gaming everyone else still uses dvds

Wii games will fit on dvd, PC games will fit on dvd. PS3 and 360 games are a different story, it came straight from the horses mouth, a 360 developer said that DVD9 does not have enough storage space for them to make the game in the way they wanted. No matter how much Damage Control this forum gets the facts are staring us in the face.

its not a diffrent story actually they could have people download that update through xbox live example oblivion

Not everyone had a HDD, you cant make a game that only people with HDDs on their 360s can play so you have to make a game that doesnt use the HDD for anything other than saving. Downloadable content is different because you don't NEED downloadable content, its extra.

But it gets downloaded onto your HDD so it can afford to be compressed a lot. Console games stream a lot of their textures off the disc and if you compress everything too much it becomes a bottle neck because too much time will be spent uncompressing data, not to mention compression makes games loose some quality and Direct Xs unefficient RAM management.MGS9150

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]But it gets downloaded onto your HDD so it can afford to be compressed a lot. Console games stream a lot of their textures off the disc and if you compress everything too much it becomes a bottle neck because too much time will be spent uncompressing data, not to mention compression makes games loose some quality and Direct Xs unefficient RAM management.hydrophoboe

First of all new console games like geow for example use texture streaming, which means every texture in the game is streamed right off the disc, because of that game sizes are MUCH bigger, PCs dont read of the disc, they use the disc to verify that your copy of the game is legit then they read off the HDD, because of that they can afford to compress the data on the disc and uncompress it during the install.

[QUOTE="darthogre"]

What? reading your quoted statement from the developers says plainly they will have weather specific lighting changes.....nothing about Nightime/Daytime for each city.

Forza_2

He was just giving examples. We probably will see day and night using that method he just described.

"For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

lol....so out of 3 examples he didn't list one that stated "to make it go from daylight to nighttime it does X" or "to make it go from nighttime to daylight it does X". There is a big difference from "probably" and will have nightime to daylight possible. You dont' even sound 100% convinced that is what the developer meant. Reason is because he never came out and said it.

btw, why even mention the problem if they actually fixed it with the workaround. maybe because they couldn't do fix it?

[QUOTE="Forza_2"]

Let's read the entire quote, shall we ?

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

sadikovic

ownage approved for the TC lack of reading skills.

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.Blanco98

Um, no. Give me a link where it says that the 360 version directly limited the PS3 version. Wait, no, I'll just do it myself.

"The Xbox 360's lack of a guaranteed harddrive is creating limitations for the Rockstar team developing Grand Theft Auto IV for the Xbox 360" -kotaku

Read the underlined, FOR THE XBOX 360, where does it say the lack of hard drive on the 360 is causing the PS3 version to suffer?

Also for those who like to selectively read;

The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges" and that "both have their own particular pleasures and pains".

wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.deadhead127

Funny this would be the first reply. Real gamers say hello, there is other systems out there with fun games.

Well, Counter Strike Source, Battlefield 2, Age of Empire 3, Commandos 3, Sims 2, Doom 3, have all been recent games and have about 4 cds...And they arent very Powerful games either....So why wouldent Crysis?? Anyways your prolly use to playing games like Starcraft, or Diablo 1 which requires 1 disc....Name the last Pc game you played??

Blanco98

Most recent PC games have been shipping on DVDs vs CDs. Look at some of the recent finds at the store. Jade Empire on PC on DVD. Transformers on PC on DVD. Lost Planet Extreme Condition for PC on DVD. The CD distribution model is going away in favor of DVds, because of cost. One DVD costs far less than four CDs. The last game I bought on CD was Company of Heroes last fall and it was on six CDs. If I would of gone collector edition, it would of been on one DVD.

[QUOTE="sadikovic"][QUOTE="Forza_2"]

Let's read the entire quote, shall we ?

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

ermacness

ownage approved for the TC lack of reading skills.

Yes, but they got around the "problem" so its really not a "problem" anymore is it!?

again read!

If they had said we cannot carry on with DVD9's sorry MS I would have agreed with you, but you lot can continue with your arguement if you please just dont quote me!

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.ParadiddleFill

crysis says hello

Crysis says it's a pc game, and will run off of your hardrive, so it's irrelevant how many dvd's it requires. Yeah, crysis had a lot to say.

[QUOTE="Blanco98"][QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.Drukter

Um, no. Give me a link where it says that the 360 version directly limited the PS3 version. Wait, no, I'll just do it myself.

"The Xbox 360's lack of a guaranteed harddrive is creating limitations for the Rockstar team developing Grand Theft Auto IV for the Xbox 360" -kotaku

Read the underlined, FOR THE XBOX 360, where does it say the lack of hard drive on the 360 is causing the PS3 version to suffer?

Also for those who like to selectively read;

The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges" and that "both have their own particular pleasures and pains".

The games will most likely be the same thing.....and I believe the 360 is the lead SKU.

So how would " the Xbox 360's lack of a guaranteed harddrive is creating limitations for the Rockstar team developing Grand Theft Auto IV for the Xbox 360"

Not effect the Playstation 3 version as well? It's not like they're going to re-work the whole game just for the PS3 and have it be different than the 360 version. They'll be the same game, and if it's limiting the 360 version, well then it's limiting the PS3 version.

Isn't Microsoft a King of compression? I didn't think they would have a problem with storage capacity.

Regardless, even if they didn't redo the textures I doubt many would care since you're wizzing about the road in excess of 100 mph. Only if you crash or stop will you pay some attention to the surroundings.

[QUOTE="darthogre"]

What? reading your quoted statement from the developers says plainly they will have weather specific lighting changes.....nothing about Nightime/Daytime for each city.

Forza_2

He was just giving examples. We probably will see day and night using that method he just described.

"For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

There is quite a difference between slight lighting alterations and night/day alterations. The biggest is at night you expect things like streetlights, and windows in buildings to have lights on while during the day they don't. Now, in theory you could do this thru lighting models, but that would mean literally 100s of light sources which just can't be handled by modern GPUs. The only reasonable way to do this on modern GPUs is to use different texturing to simulate the effect. Now, all games don't do this. Many don't bother with these realistic touches and you can get away with that in many game generas, but it does show.

First of all new console games like geow for example use texture streaming, which means every texture in the game is streamed right off the disc, because of that game sizes are MUCH bigger, PCs dont read of the disc, they use the disc to verify that your copy of the game is legit then they read off the HDD, because of that they can afford to compress the data on the disc and uncompress it during the install.MGS9150

yah lets use next gen format that is brand new and in 6 years will be 10x better to use. i think ms waiting was smart.xbox360isgr8t

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]ill say it again there hasent been or isnt a game out there or coming out on the ps3 that couldent be done on the 360mazdaspeed-rx8

There are plenty of demos on the market place???

Heh, I could be wrong but what that says to me is, we don't want to spend another 4 million dollars recreating another set of textures on top of all the weather effects.Riverwolf007

He didn't say anything about money, though, did he? He said it couldn't fit on DVD. Plain and simple.

[QUOTE="ermacness"][QUOTE="sadikovic"][QUOTE="Forza_2"]

Let's read the entire quote, shall we ?

"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy."

sadikovic

ownage approved for the TC lack of reading skills.

Yes, but they got around the "problem" so its really not a "problem" anymore is it!?

again read!

If they had said we cannot carry on with DVD9's sorry MS I would have agreed with you, but you lot can continue with your arguement if you please just dont quote me!

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]First of all new console games like geow for example use texture streaming, which means every texture in the game is streamed right off the disc, because of that game sizes are MUCH bigger, PCs dont read of the disc, they use the disc to verify that your copy of the game is legit then they read off the HDD, because of that they can afford to compress the data on the disc and uncompress it during the install.hydrophoboe

Actually, the disc holds about 4.5 GB of useable space after headers and VTOC entries. Normally, they do come out about the same, but not always. I know that when I installed Marvel Ultimate Alliance from DVD, it grew by about a Gig. GTA San Andreas also got bigger than the disc size. There is some compression that goes on. Not as much as in years past, because DVDs have become the standard media distribution format.

Also, most games do play off the hard drive, because of data transfer speeds. It is far faster to stream data off the hard drive than from a DVD. The DVD is only used for the initial loading sequence to make sure it is a legit copy. Hardly ever used after that once you get into the game.

[QUOTE="Magical_Guy"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.FrozenLiquid

crysis says hello

most PC games you don't need a CD/DVD to play. XBOX's don't have standard HDD's so they need everything from the disc.

Are you serious? Most games don't need a CD/DVD to play?

All games in my library, save the MMOs and some exceptions, require me to insert a disc.

Downloadable games don't need discs.

Anyway, what I think he was trying to say was that PC games read directly from your harddrive.

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.MikeE21286

crysis says hello

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.aliasfreak

crysis says hello

Eager to see how this is explained away...

[QUOTE="anshuk20002"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.ParadiddleFill

crysis says hello

crysis is on a dvd

My guess is that when you install it on your PC it wil be bigger than the size of a DVD (the data will just be compressed onto the disc and then uncompressed when you install it). If not, well then I guess it's a game that doesn't require more space like PGR4 seems to need. That's basically the explanation.

When u compress a game into 1 Install file, u can EXTREMELY Compress the game. Xbox cant do that, the core Doesnt have a Harddisk. They cant Extremely Compress the Files but the PS3 has Blue Ray and Can Compress them Extremely ;p

Graphical beauty != good gameplay.

Try again, cows. You are basically saying that because they had to change a graphic technique, PGR4 will suck. This doesn't make any sense at all, fyi.

Besides, imo, PGR3 is the best looking racing game out there, if you don't count jaggies (which has NOTHING to do with DVD size, just to clear that out of the way). I predict that PGR4 will be the peak limit of the 360, graphically.

The video cards on both systems suck ass, all that processing power to stress E-penis size and not enough video card power to expose it--but hey, it's good for the uneducated fanboy that thinks processing power and memory sizes are everything.hydrophoboe

p.s. i do understand that this is your opinion, but not many people will agree with you on this one

umm.. why are people saying that PCs can't handle a high capacity game??

Dell XPS 1710 and Alienwarez has been already equipped with Blue-ray drive and so does upcoming desktops..

see what happens when you spend too much time on this pointless threads..

Also, most games do play off the hard drive, because of data transfer speeds. It is far faster to stream data off the hard drive than from a DVD. The DVD is only used for the initial loading sequence to make sure it is a legit copy. Hardly ever used after that once you get into the game.mclazyj

I really don't think it matters anyway, if this info would have never been leaked out, people would have bought that game and never notices the difference.........Amazing how many game developers appear on these forums(SARCASM)Ericvon71

It's just interesting and shows that size is starting to matter. Keeps the forums alive ! lol

EDIT: :lol: Official PS3 owners slogan: SIZE DOES MATTER!

umm.. why are people saying that PCs can't handle a high capacity game??

Dell XPS 1710 and Alienwarez has been already equipped with Blue-ray drive and so does upcoming desktops..

see what happens when you spend too much time on this pointless threads..

AKuMA_G0

This is true, but it will take a ridiculously long time for it to become standard. Most pc games are sold with a DVD version, and a CD version, because some people don't have DVD players in their PC's.

Either way, digital downloads are the future of the PC gaming market.

Well, Counter Strike Source, Battlefield 2, Age of Empire 3, Commandos 3, Sims 2, Doom 3, have all been recent games and have about 4 cds...And they arent very Powerful games either....So why wouldent Crysis?? Anyways your prolly use to playing games like Starcraft, or Diablo 1 which requires 1 disc....Name the last Pc game you played??

Blanco98

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="Magical_Guy"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.Magical_Guy

crysis says hello

most PC games you don't need a CD/DVD to play. XBOX's don't have standard HDD's so they need everything from the disc.

Are you serious? Most games don't need a CD/DVD to play?

All games in my library, save the MMOs and some exceptions, require me to insert a disc.

I mostly play HL2 and WoW, and they don't require one so I'm sort of basing it off that, but some of mine do like Battlefield... so ya. Either way most of the content is put on the HDD.

First GTA4, then PGR4, Next is Halo 3.

Bungie Developer: "We wanted to make a spectacular single player, but the multiplayer took up 75% of the space in the DVD. Oh well. Halo was always about multiplayer anyway. Nobody likes single player anymore". (Actual Bungie comment) :shock:

First GTA4, then PGR4, Next is Halo 3.

Bungie Developer: "We wanted to make a spectacular single player, but the multiplayer took up 75% of the space in the DVD. Oh well. Halo was always about multiplayer anyway. Nobody likes single player anymore". (Actual Bungie comment) :shock:

dream431ca

link?

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.ParadiddleFill

crysis says hello

Whats this even mean?

I'm pretty sure when Crysis releases...the amount of data you'll have to install on your hard drive, could probably not even fit on a premium 360 console.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

First GTA4, then PGR4, Next is Halo 3.

Bungie Developer: "We wanted to make a spectacular single player, but the multiplayer took up 75% of the space in the DVD. Oh well. Halo was always about multiplayer anyway. Nobody likes single player anymore". (Actual Bungie comment) :shock:

MikeE21286

link?

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]ill say it again there hasent been or isnt a game out there or coming out on the ps3 that couldent be done on the 360mazdaspeed-rx8

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]

[QUOTE="deadhead127"]wow. it looks like MS decision to not use nex gen formats are starting to bite them in the ass. Imagine how much better GTAIV could be? Thanks alot MS.Amnesiacx

crysis says hello

Whats this even mean?

I'm pretty sure when Crysis releases...the amount of data you'll have to install on your hard drive, could probably not even fit on a premium 360 console.

how can crysis release more data then is stored on its dvd space? it doesnt make any sense

[QUOTE="mazdaspeed-rx8"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]ill say it again there hasent been or isnt a game out there or coming out on the ps3 that couldent be done on the 360wmc540

There are plenty of demos on the market place???

Cows have convince me that DVD9 is holding back gaming, especially PC gaming.LosDaddie

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Cows have convince me that DVD9 is holding back gaming, especially PC gaming.mazdaspeed-rx8

Do you know why PC games are installed on the HDD yet are still shipped on one DVD9?

[QUOTE="hydrophoboe"][QUOTE="MGS9150"]But it gets downloaded onto your HDD so it can afford to be compressed a lot. Console games stream a lot of their textures off the disc and if you compress everything too much it becomes a bottle neck because too much time will be spent uncompressing data, not to mention compression makes games loose some quality and Direct Xs unefficient RAM management.MGS9150

First of all new console games like geow for example use texture streaming, which means every texture in the game is streamed right off the disc, because of that game sizes are MUCH bigger, PCs dont read of the disc, they use the disc to verify that your copy of the game is legit then they read off the HDD, because of that they can afford to compress the data on the disc and uncompress it during the install.

[QUOTE="wmc540"]

[QUOTE="mazdaspeed-rx8"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]ill say it again there hasent been or isnt a game out there or coming out on the ps3 that couldent be done on the 360mazdaspeed-rx8

There are plenty of demos on the market place???

[QUOTE="mazdaspeed-rx8"][QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Cows have convince me that DVD9 is holding back gaming, especially PC gaming.LosDaddie

Do you know why PC games are installed on the HDD yet are still shipped on one DVD9?

[QUOTE="mazdaspeed-rx8"][QUOTE="wmc540"]

[QUOTE="mazdaspeed-rx8"][QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]ill say it again there hasent been or isnt a game out there or coming out on the ps3 that couldent be done on the 360limpbizkit818

There are plenty of demos on the market place???