Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
Just for marketing so they can say, PS4 is DX11, Xbone is DX12, when in truth, PS4 & Xbone both use their own low level API's that are superior to whatever DX12 can hope to be
@bfmv2007: gotta admit considering nobody knows anything about dx12 its very impressive you know opengl is better already. Must be an industry insider. Can you tell us which features are being added to the new release?
@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.
Oh wait...
You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.
Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.
Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.
Oh wait...
You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.
Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.
and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?
Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.
@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.
Oh wait...
You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.
Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.
and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?
Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.
I doubt Hideo even touched a XB1 SDK to be honest. You probably won't see Halo 5 until 2015. Sunset Overdrive should be out this fall though. Spencer says it looking incredible.
@kbanna: games like kz sf, ryse, bf4, and ac:bf. Why are you asking me this
Because as your clowning the new sdk for not bringing anything to the table, while admitting (didn't think you would) that Ryse is one of the best looking games this generation so far. That new sdk can only improve X1 development. By how much...? who knows. But the point is that game was already 900p and looked better (imo) then any multiplatform game out. Development can only get better from here with that new sdk and graphics can only be improved.
Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
PS4 doesn't run OpenGL. According to EA DICE, PS4's APIs are claimed to be similar to AMD's Mantle.
------------------------------------
For the Windows PC, AMD is working with Microsoft to bring Mantle like performance with Direct3D.
DirectX: Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
Max McMullen | Development Lead,
Windows Graphics Location: Room 2002, West Hall Date: Thursday, March 20 Time: 4:00pm-5:00pm
"Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before! In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk."
---------------------------------------
Direct3D and the Future of Graphics APIs (Presented by AMD)
Johan Andersson | Technical Director, Frostbite
Dan Baker | Partner, Oxide Games
Dave Oldcorn | Software Engineering Fellow, AMD
Location: Room 3020, West Hall Date: Thursday, March 20 Time: 5:30pm-6:30pm
"In this session AMDs Dave Oldcorn, Frostbite technical Director Johan Andersson and Oxides Dan Baker will look at how new Direct3D advancements enhance efficiency and enable fully-threaded building of command buffers. They will demonstrate how AMD is using its recent experience in efficient graphics API design and its partnership with Microsoft to provide developers with the infrastructure to render next-generation graphics workloads at full performance. This presentation also discusses the best ways to exploit AMD hardware under heavy load and will invite developers to influence driver and hardware development."
------
The work on AMD's Mantle driver improvements gets recycled for DirectX 12.
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014
DirectX: Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform
Presented by: Microsoft; Anuj Gosalia, Development Manager, Windows Graphics
"However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console."
Notice word "console" and should you the clue on which GPU family will be supporting DirectX 12.
Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.
DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer.
From http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx
"The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality"
AMD GCN in Xbox One is already beyond PC's DirectX 11.2 and your GK110 is only compliant to DX feature level 11_0.
It would interesting if DirectX 12 unlocks PC's AMD GCN to the same level Xbox One's DirectX 11.X instead of being gimped at DX feature level 11_1 i.e. DirectX 11.2 with feature level 11_1 + tiled resource tier 2.
@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.
Oh wait...
You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.
Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.
and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?
Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.
I doubt Hideo even touched a XB1 SDK to be honest. You probably won't see Halo 5 until 2015. Sunset Overdrive should be out this fall though. Spencer says it looking incredible.
Hideo, like any dev, loves money and getting paid for what he does so I'm willing to bet he did touch one. But let's not ignore the list of developers who've already struggled with the xbone. Spencer saying Halo/SO looks incredible? Yoshida says Uncharted 4 is looking the balls too, but we both know these statements are empty hype PR. I think the Witcher definitely should be using the new one especially as they are out spoken DX devs. Surely it can't be that pressing to port a game over to a new SDK that technically would be the same except the newer one promises some more head room in power.
Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.
DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...
That will have features that are not available to current GPU's
From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html
"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014
Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”
Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.
DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.
@kbanna: dude, what are you smoking. Ryse looks good, but its still being compared to launch games and its sub-hd and sub 30fps. Look at how almost every multiplatform games looks better on PS4.
Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
Do you have a link to support this claim btw?
Well the GPU in the ps4 may not use DX11.2 but it has the all the hardware to use it and OpenGL 4.4(Note the XboxOne can use OpenGL aswell not saying it does or will us it) This slide seems to be from AMD talking about the PS4's GPU.
This kind of sucks considering Direct X 11 is still very fresh and new and now we can;t get to used to it since MS is going to want everyone to go onto 12 now, I do find development for OpenGL better though.
Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone
Do you have a link to support this claim btw?
Well the GPU in the ps4 may not use DX11.2 but it has the all the hardware to use it and OpenGL 4.4(Note the XboxOne can use OpenGL aswell not saying it does or will us it) This slide seems to be from AMD talking about the PS4's GPU.
AMD just release it's OpenCL 2.0 "like" beta drivers i.e. OpenCL 1.2 with OpenCL 2.0 "like" extensions. AMD has stated it will be releasing OpenCL 2.0 beta later in the year. http://developer.amd.com/resources/heterogeneous-computing/opencl-zone/opencl-1-2-beta-driver/
From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers
"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes,"
As part of unlocking more power for Xbox One, Xbox One's APIs also supports AMD GCN's asynchronous compute architecture. PC's DirectX 11.2 doesn't support AMD GCN's asynchronous compute units. It would be interesting if DirectX 12 unlocks this feature for PC's AMD GCN.
NVIDIA's HyperQ is similar to AMD's asynchronous compute queues.
Only NVIDIA GK110 and GM107 "Maxwell" supports HyperQ. All AMD GCNs supports asynchronous compute queues.
Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.
DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...
That will have features that are not available to current GPU's
From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html
"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014
Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”
Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.
DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.
Kind of like installing an updated dx11.2 on a computer with a gpu that only have dx11. Features get wasted. Your GPU will not be DX 12 compliant. Nor was the xbox 360 that had GPU features required by DX 10 ie unified shader architecture.
Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.
DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...
That will have features that are not available to current GPU's
From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html
"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014
Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”
Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.
DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.
Kind of like installing an updated dx11.2 on a computer with a gpu that only have dx11. Features get wasted. Your GPU will not be DX 12 compliant. Nor was the xbox 360 that had GPU features required by DX 10 ie unified shader architecture.
There's no word if DirectX 12 will require new hardware.
From http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx
"We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies"
Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superset and it's updated SDK/driver would be known as DirectX 12 on the PC.
I don't have any concerns with AMD GCN since DirectX 12 is based from Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superset + SDK/driver improvements (refer to Xbox One's unlock article).
This kind of sucks considering Direct X 11 is still very fresh and new and now we can;t get to used to it since MS is going to want everyone to go onto 12 now
DX12 is the one that took the longest to come out. No idea why people wish for stagnation.
As for consoles, APIs mean little to them so this news is not that big of a deal for xbox. Its hardware is already set in stone. For consoles this was it, for the future 7 years they'll be left out of tech evolution.
The reason why APIs exist is to make it possible for games to run on a multitude of different hardware combinations by giving a common feature set. PCs, phones and tablets rely on them. Consoles have static hardware and don't need them. On static hardware developers can afford to go even lower level than they would with an API.
Log in to comment