Lems been living on Microsoft's hope and dreams for the past 3 years. All MS did is lie to your face so you shut up and buy their consoles thinking there's a bright future for your system. Well, you got f*cked, you ain't getting anything and that's that. 720-900p gaming is what your Bone was designed for.
No not most only a few features , major features that X1's API DX11.X was missing was full async/ACE support and true multithreading communication from cpu to gpu. Which is the biggest additions, there are other resources saving features in DX12 that DX 11.X does not have. Once games are produced from the ground up for DX12 X1 will see performance boost over DX11.X but at the same time PS4 will see the advantages from DX12 in multiplats as well.
Hahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. So how is your argument holding up.?
SWBF is faster on PS4 + as higher resolution,nothing changed even that the game is build from GROUND UP for DX12,there is no excuse SWBF3 support async shaders on PS4,XBO and PC it was build from ground up for it.
I told you so many times the gap would stay put.
The PS4 doesn't need DX12 its actual api is even more efficient.
@ShoTTyMcNaDeS said:
I own both systems so I don't give a $h1t! Tormentos and Lostrib need lives as they are both still gripping over this "ps4 is more powerful than X1" trash 2 years later!! Grow up and get a job so that you can buy both consoles!!
No not most only a few features , major features that X1's API DX11.X was missing was full async/ACE support and true multithreading communication from cpu to gpu. Which is the biggest additions, there are other resources saving features in DX12 that DX 11.X does not have. Once games are produced from the ground up for DX12 X1 will see performance boost over DX11.X but at the same time PS4 will see the advantages from DX12 in multiplats as well.
Hahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. So how is your argument holding up.?
SWBF is faster on PS4 + as higher resolution,nothing changed even that the game is build from GROUND UP for DX12,there is no excuse SWBF3 support async shaders on PS4,XBO and PC it was build from ground up for it.
I told you so many times the gap would stay put.
The PS4 doesn't need DX12 its actual api is even more efficient.
Too bad you cant see whats posted. What you seem not to understand that the X1 would see performance gains, and so would the PS4 with multiplats vs current DX11 convert jobs to PS4 high level API GNMX. Why are you so obsessed downplaying an actual positive feature for the X1 in which the PS4 will also gain from? Are you blind to the fact that X1 performance will increase which will close the gap some but not even enough to match the PS4 1st party coding?
So if the X1 goes from 900p at 50-55 fps to 900p to a solid 60 fps with DX12, that's not a performance increase nor is it not closing the gap vs PS4's 1080p at 60 fps?
PS4 API isnt any better than DX12, since both are low level, it all depends on devs coding abilities.
Ps4 came with two apis one high level api opengl/dx11 like GNMX. The other low level api GNM harder but has direct access to the hardware. Sort of Sony's answer to devs screaming get the f**kin api out of the way get dx11 out of the way lol. The low level api doesn't get used much but devs take GNMX and wraps it around GNM and go to town. You can guess that in multi platform development they will take dx12 like stuff and apply to GNM. Its almost like a genius way of solving the problem of leaving in a dx development environment world.
Sony are really up to date they adapt. They update the sdk, they make sure widely used engines like Unreal are up to date with the sdk especially now with vr stuff. ICE Team who attended gdc dx12 presentation make sure they are up to date with the tech. When amd came out with Mantel basically a cheer leader of all of this dx12, Vulkan stuff ps4 was already there. Chances are ICE team have already gone through how Vulkun utilizes that more access to the hardware and are applying it to the low level api. And of course they support Vulkun as does Nintendo.
These are some of the reasons why there wont be software deficient to close the gap in a significant way. The other reason is hardware. Xboxone as a console inherently accessed more of its hardware than pcs. Thats the reason why pc have more fanfare to dx12 then xboxone. Actually windows 10 too an OS that works under these conditions. As The Witcher 3 dev said before. They needed more than dx12 to make Witcher 3 1080p on xboxone. The texture load was just too much for the gpu and memory system. You may see more parity games mostly because of devs getting more effitient at applying this, but you will still see games like The Witcher 3 and SW BF. Even the ps4 it self barely makes it. You will see adaptive technics utilized on xboxone with games like the division, unless devs stop pushing fidelity.
We are not in this world where only DX12 exist and ps4 and NX are in trouble.
It's a vague single line that will need to be clarified, but it currently being DirectX 12 doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why is the PC version DirectX 11 first and foremost but the Xbox One version is DirectX 12 for some odd reason? That in and of itself doesn't make a lick of sense, not to mention they can say "is the first" if they know it's going to be the first title on the device using DirectX 12.
To add to that further, Battlefront released on the 17th of November, the Xbox One Windows 10 update which houses the DirectX 12 API was not made mandatory until the 23rd of the month, 6 days later, this doesn't add up.
Is a simple line because it needs no clarification,it clearly say the first DX12 game was SWBF3,in no place it say it will be by patch or that latter on it will be patched,so basically and as always you are grasping.
So either link me or stop your DC.
BF4 used async shaders on PS4 before the PC version did,which was latter patch for mantle on PC,so it means nothing.
The problem is that like i have being saying the whole windows 10 crap was only symbolic async shader were expose on xbox one since summer 2014,the fact that no game use it mean shit,the PS4 support async shaders since day 1,and 99% of its games don't use async shaders.
SWBF3 is 720p on xbox one so yeah there is a gap...
They didn't say "was" they said "is", is can be used in a future tense in place of "will be" if you are already aware of events taking place or their order. As a simple example, Gran Turismo Sport is the first Gran Turismo game for the PlayStation 4, Battlefront is the first DirectX 12 game for the Xbox One, if they already know it's going to be the first game to use DirectX 12 on the console they can speak knowingly that it is, this is beyond simple to understand.
Windows 10 hits the Xbox One in November, DirectX 12 in tow.
That's November 2015.
SW:Battlefront was released on November 17, 2015.
I have already told you DX12 wouldn't solve ALU bound issues.
SW:Battlefront frame rate target is 60 fps hence less than full HD rendering resolution for both platforms. 30 fps target could have enabled both platforms to target higher resolution.
For AMD GPUs, R9-270X/7870 GE is the minimum card for 1920x1080p with 60 fps average and high settings.
@razik: All the 900p and dynamic resolutions titles on Xbox One disagree. It might not be huge gap, but they are most definitely not the same. Saying so is a flat out lie.
It make me laugh how many shills still think that graphics are the be all and end all of gaming and that the quality of said graphics Determines whether a console succeeds or fails.
Only the most die hard lems honestly thought that DX12 would close the gap, it wasn't meant to, it was meant to uify 2 platforms (PC and Xbox one) as Microsoft are clearly pursuing the same policy of XBox/PC only games that persisted last gen.
You may get a few extra frames or slightly better resolution but thats about it.
The real benefit is that it will make Porting games from PC to Xbone ultra cheap and easy which will give PC devs more incentive to Develop there games on the Xbox one as well as PC.
I Blame lems for this though, i cannot believe they could not look at this issue objectively instead believing in pipe dreams of DX12 superboosting the GPU and CPU.
As far as the Graphics Fidelity argument goes the Xbone lost but it doesn't matter, it's still a reasonably good console in it's own right.
you lot carry on fighting over nothing whilst the rest of us get on with the serious business of appreciating the games themselves.
What do you want to hear? MS stated at GDC that Battlefront is first DX 12 game on Xbone? What, they lied to public at GDC? Sure, sure. Anyway, Xbone has DX12 features for 2 years now and it is constantly updated.
Phil already said it won't become faster until the developer utilize the DX12 features correctly. I don't think there is word about SWBF being DX12. Are you talking about PC version? Because PC version is different than XboxOne version ya know. When PC has DX12, XboxOne does not have DX12 at all. In fact, I am quite sure DX12 is not on XboxOne yet. I have yet to heard that from Phil.
I don't know how many time Phil had to say that, he said time and time again that if there's any difference, it would be minimal at best and of course I'm paraphasing. Only people that kept harping on the fact that Dx12 was going to somehow make things look better was fanboys that refuse to read and take what Phil said serious.
Too bad you cant see whats posted. What you seem not to understand that the X1 would see performance gains, and so would the PS4 with multiplats vs current DX11 convert jobs to PS4 high level API GNMX. Why are you so obsessed downplaying an actual positive feature for the X1 in which the PS4 will also gain from? Are you blind to the fact that X1 performance will increase which will close the gap some but not even enough to match the PS4 1st party coding?
So if the X1 goes from 900p at 50-55 fps to 900p to a solid 60 fps with DX12, that's not a performance increase nor is it not closing the gap vs PS4's 1080p at 60 fps?
PS4 API isnt any better than DX12, since both are low level, it all depends on devs coding abilities.
You don't get it do you.? SWBF3 uses aync shaders on the 2 platforms this game is on par on XBO and PS4 there is no more excuses about DX12 not being here so drop it dude you have being owned just like i told you...
The gap is here to stay and i told you so.
SWBF is not solid 60 on xbox one it has drops and compare to BF4 which wasn't 60FPS on PS4 i say they PS4 also gain this is not because of DX12 because the PS4 already used async shaders on BF4 is because developer get a better hold of the hardware.
No the PS4 one is better is for 1 target just like mantle was able to beat DX12 in several games thanks to be just specific to 1 line of GPU rather than many like DX12,having less over head will always work better mantle proved that.
@magicalclick said:
Phil already said it won't become faster until the developer utilize the DX12 features correctly. I don't think there is word about SWBF being DX12. Are you talking about PC version? Because PC version is different than XboxOne version ya know. When PC has DX12, XboxOne does not have DX12 at all. In fact, I am quite sure DX12 is not on XboxOne yet. I have yet to heard that from Phil.
That is bull sh** what Phil say was if DEVELOPERS USE IT,not if they use it correctly you are losing your time Dice know more about DX12 coding than MS it self,Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4,they even help amd to develop mantle so please drop that excuse,you sound like blackace trying to imply that DX12 is not being properly use or that the developer doesn't know how to use it.
Yes DX12 is on xbox one and MS lie about Fable being the first game that used DX12,as i see it they try to tag fable as the first game to probably spike sales of the game,reality is they stated SWBF 3 was the first DX12 game,which contradict what they say before.
@nyadc said:
They didn't say "was" they said "is", is can be used in a future tense in place of "will be" if you are already aware of events taking place or their order. As a simple example, Gran Turismo Sport is the first Gran Turismo game for the PlayStation 4, Battlefront is the first DirectX 12 game for the Xbox One, if they already know it's going to be the first game to use DirectX 12 on the console they can speak knowingly that it is, this is beyond simple to understand.
IS dude IS not will be IS is not the same ""your argument will be stupid that your argument IS stupid"".
There is no patch announce for SWBF3 with DX12 on xbox one,and if it was by patch they would have STATE it.
Interestingly enough, Ronald also mentioned that Star Wars Battlefront from developer EA DICE, is in fact the first DX12 title on Xbox One. Please note that during the presentation, the present tense was used. This implies that Battlefront is already using DX12 on Xbox One. This is a bit confusing though, as Microsoft has always stated that the now cancelled Fable Legends, would be the first DX12 title for their console.
The problem here is MS lying about fable being the first DX12 game,which they probably did protect the notion of DX12 increasing performance and or spike sales of the game,is clear they still loss and DX12 will change nothing on xbox one i stated it many times..hahahahaa
It is funny how much PS4 owners slate XBox One owners over the tiny difference in power and performance, yet the PC offers a far bigger step up compared to both consoles, but they just can't handle that fact.
Too bad you cant see whats posted. What you seem not to understand that the X1 would see performance gains, and so would the PS4 with multiplats vs current DX11 convert jobs to PS4 high level API GNMX. Why are you so obsessed downplaying an actual positive feature for the X1 in which the PS4 will also gain from? Are you blind to the fact that X1 performance will increase which will close the gap some but not even enough to match the PS4 1st party coding?
So if the X1 goes from 900p at 50-55 fps to 900p to a solid 60 fps with DX12, that's not a performance increase nor is it not closing the gap vs PS4's 1080p at 60 fps?
PS4 API isnt any better than DX12, since both are low level, it all depends on devs coding abilities.
You don't get it do you.? SWBF3 uses aync shaders on the 2 platforms this game is on par on XBO and PS4 there is no more excuses about DX12 not being here so drop it dude you have being owned just like i told you...
The gap is here to stay and i told you so.
SWBF is not solid 60 on xbox one it has drops and compare to BF4 which wasn't 60FPS on PS4 i say they PS4 also gain this is not because of DX12 because the PS4 already used async shaders on BF4 is because developer get a better hold of the hardware.
No the PS4 one is better is for 1 target just like mantle was able to beat DX12 in several games thanks to be just specific to 1 line of GPU rather than many like DX12,having less over head will always work better mantle proved that.
@magicalclick said:
Phil already said it won't become faster until the developer utilize the DX12 features correctly. I don't think there is word about SWBF being DX12. Are you talking about PC version? Because PC version is different than XboxOne version ya know. When PC has DX12, XboxOne does not have DX12 at all. In fact, I am quite sure DX12 is not on XboxOne yet. I have yet to heard that from Phil.
That is bull sh** what Phil say was if DEVELOPERS USE IT,not if they use it correctly you are losing your time Dice know more about DX12 coding than MS it self,Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4,they even help amd to develop mantle so please drop that excuse,you sound like blackace trying to imply that DX12 is not being properly use or that the developer doesn't know how to use it.
Yes DX12 is on xbox one and MS lie about Fable being the first game that used DX12,as i see it they try to tag fable as the first game to probably spike sales of the game,reality is they stated SWBF 3 was the first DX12 game,which contradict what they say before.
@nyadc said:
They didn't say "was" they said "is", is can be used in a future tense in place of "will be" if you are already aware of events taking place or their order. As a simple example, Gran Turismo Sport is the first Gran Turismo game for the PlayStation 4, Battlefront is the first DirectX 12 game for the Xbox One, if they already know it's going to be the first game to use DirectX 12 on the console they can speak knowingly that it is, this is beyond simple to understand.
IS dude IS not will be IS is not the same ""your argument will be stupid that your argument IS stupid"".
There is no patch announce for SWBF3 with DX12 on xbox one,and if it was by patch they would have STATE it.
Interestingly enough, Ronald also mentioned that Star Wars Battlefront from developer EA DICE, is in fact the first DX12 title on Xbox One. Please note that during the presentation, the present tense was used. This implies that Battlefront is already using DX12 on Xbox One. This is a bit confusing though, as Microsoft has always stated that the now cancelled Fable Legends, would be the first DX12 title for their console.
The problem here is MS lying about fable being the first DX12 game,which they probably did protect the notion of DX12 increasing performance and or spike sales of the game,is clear they still loss and DX12 will change nothing on xbox one i stated it many times..hahahahaa
Btw, BF4 Mantle doesn't use Async compute on PC GCN..
Now, while terrain rendering is of very high quality on consoles, it's clear that cutbacks were made in other areas. For example, the dense forest of Endor uses foliage placement that differs from all of the presets. More surprisingly, this is one area in which we discovered a difference between PS4 and Xbox One - there is more foliage rendered on Xbox while playing the Endor Survival map. Fortunately, there is still plenty of foliage to be found. We didn't actually notice the lack of foliage until comparing the two versions side by side, but it's fascinating to see how far DICE has gone to hit the 60fps target.
The problem here is MS lying about fable being the first DX12 game,which they probably did protect the notion of DX12 increasing performance and or spike sales of the game,is clear they still loss and DX12 will change nothing on xbox one i stated it many times..hahahahaa
Btw, BF4 Mantle doesn't use Async compute on PC GCN..
Now, while terrain rendering is of very high quality on consoles, it's clear that cutbacks were made in other areas. For example, the dense forest of Endor uses foliage placement that differs from all of the presets. More surprisingly, this is one area in which we discovered a difference between PS4 and Xbox One - there is more foliage rendered on Xbox while playing the Endor Survival map. Fortunately, there is still plenty of foliage to be found. We didn't actually notice the lack of foliage until comparing the two versions side by side, but it's fascinating to see how far DICE has gone to hit the 60fps target.
rofl, also that Battlefront is not a native DX12 game.
if Battlefront is true DX12 game on X1 why didn't DICE also release it on Pc with DX12 ? Fact is that the game is not natively built with DX12, its most likely convert job if anything. Just like every DX12 game so far on PC.
Lems are indeed in panic mode. Fact is that Xbone has DX12 features for 2 years now and it is constantly updated.
Ask Microsoft why they released DX12 on Xbone first, later on PC.
yet all DX12 games out so far are all DX11 converted games,BF is not from the ground up DX12 title.... Suggesting that it is wrong and a sad attempt to downplay any positive aspects coming from DX12.
X1 DX11.X had a few features that DX12 incorporated like draw bundles and deferred contexts however X1 did not have not all of DX12 features.....
DX.11.X is xbox specific. and DX12 didn't get released until November with Win10 SDK.
Fact is that if X1 had the important DX12 features from two years ago why are devs having to convert or patch games to DX12.....
Dude, can you explain why DICE dec said that Battlefront don't need a "patch" for DX12 like some games on PC ( Hitman, Tomb Raider )? Cuz Battlefront already uses full DX12. Looks like lems can't believe that one DX12 game is 720p on Xbone.
Now, while terrain rendering is of very high quality on consoles, it's clear that cutbacks were made in other areas. For example, the dense forest of Endor uses foliage placement that differs from all of the presets. More surprisingly, this is one area in which we discovered a difference between PS4 and Xbox One - there is more foliage rendered on Xbox while playing the Endor Survival map. Fortunately, there is still plenty of foliage to be found. We didn't actually notice the lack of foliage until comparing the two versions side by side, but it's fascinating to see how far DICE has gone to hit the 60fps target.
LINK to Dice confirming is not an async game because what you quote there doesn't say that at all..
There is an additional temporal AA solution available on the PC that hasn't made its way over to consoles though. Starting at 1080p, the lower you move down the resolution scale, the more impact there is to image quality in terms of shimmer and pixel-pop - 900p is a decent enough compromise for PS4, but 720p just feels like a step too far on Xbox One.
On Xbox One, performance slips somewhat lower at times during the largest of battles. During an average play session, the experience still comes close to achieving its objective, but certain areas trigger dips under 60fps. It's not as smooth overall as PlayStation 4
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
Oh by the way...
@04dcarraher@nyadc@blackace@ronvalencia
@04dcarraher said:
@imt558:
if Battlefront is true DX12 game on X1 why didn't DICE also release it on Pc with DX12 ? Fact is that the game is not natively built with DX12, its most likely convert job if anything. Just like every DX12 game so far on PC.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa............ Look up you freaking butthurt lermit..hahahaa
The game is DX12 on consoles just like freaking BF4 used mantle like coding on PS4 before the PC version did..lol
The xbox one still is behind the PS4 frame wise and resolution wise and DX12 change freaking nothing and i stated it for a long time now this is dice now you can start like blackace to make a fool of your self and claim they don't know how to properly code a game.
Thank you, this is all I wanted to see, obviously their message was not clear and it needed further clarification that of which they have now provided, it was a mixed message that could be construed two different ways, I didn't want to speak too soon and say it was one or the other but now we know.
Now, while terrain rendering is of very high quality on consoles, it's clear that cutbacks were made in other areas. For example, the dense forest of Endor uses foliage placement that differs from all of the presets. More surprisingly, this is one area in which we discovered a difference between PS4 and Xbox One - there is more foliage rendered on Xbox while playing the Endor Survival map. Fortunately, there is still plenty of foliage to be found. We didn't actually notice the lack of foliage until comparing the two versions side by side, but it's fascinating to see how far DICE has gone to hit the 60fps target.
LINK to Dice confirming is not an async game because what you quote there doesn't say that at all..
There is an additional temporal AA solution available on the PC that hasn't made its way over to consoles though. Starting at 1080p, the lower you move down the resolution scale, the more impact there is to image quality in terms of shimmer and pixel-pop - 900p is a decent enough compromise for PS4, but 720p just feels like a step too far on Xbox One.
On Xbox One, performance slips somewhat lower at times during the largest of battles. During an average play session, the experience still comes close to achieving its objective, but certain areas trigger dips under 60fps. It's not as smooth overall as PlayStation 4
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
Oh by the way...
I'm already aware of that tweeter entry i.e. I already posted some GDC 2016 slides before this topic.
Against your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion.
November 2015's Star Wars Battlefront was the first Direct3D12 title on XBO. YOU ARE WRONG.
Battlefield 4 not being aysnc compute enabled are for PC and XBO.
Battlefield 4 was released on October 29, 2013.
XBO's date for basic async compute functionality was onMarch 2014
The above XDK screenshot was posted multiple times and you still don't get it.
The headers for D3D11_X.h is different from D3D12.h. If you are a programmer for direct3d you know the difference between D3D11_X.h and D3D12.h.
@tormentos said:
There is an additional temporal AA solution available on the PC that hasn't made its way over to consoles though. Starting at 1080p, the lower you move down the resolution scale, the more impact there is to image quality in terms of shimmer and pixel-pop - 900p is a decent enough compromise for PS4, but 720p just feels like a step too far on Xbox One.
What you didn't get is XBO has it's own additional workload while some workload was reduced.
PS4 is not like my old 7950-900Mhz where it defeated XBO and PS4 at every graphics detail categories.
Dude, can you explain why DICE dec said that Battlefront don't need a "patch" for DX12 like some games on PC ( Hitman, Tomb Raider )? Cuz Battlefront already uses full DX12. Looks like lems can't believe that one DX12 game is 720p on Xbone.
Dice never stated what was used in BF in DX12, and fact is that Battlefront is not a native DX12 game, and is still not even a hint in DX12 on PC version getting an update for it. If BF was a native DX12 game on X1 it would also be on PC and Dice would have used it since they openly supported Mantle API on PC.... Tomb raider is also not a native DX12 game, it just got a DX12 patch on pc which actually didn't do anything besides include a more advanced version of AO ie VXAO.
I'm already aware of that tweeter entry i.e. I already posted some GDC 2016 slides before this topic.
Against your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion.
November 2015's Star Wars Battlefront was the first Direct3D12 title on XBO. YOU ARE WRONG.
Battlefield 4 not being aysnc compute enabled are for PC and XBO.
Battlefield 4 was released on October 29, 2013.
XBO's date for basic async compute functionality was onMarch 2014
The above XDK screenshot was posted multiple times and you still don't get it.
The headers for D3D11_X.h is different from D3D12.h. If you are a programmer for direct3d you know the difference between D3D11_X.h and D3D12.h.
What you didn't get is XBO has it's own additional workload while some workload was reduced.
PS4 is not like my old 7950-900Mhz where it defeated XBO and PS4 at every graphics detail categories.
Bullshit assertion you say.?
DICE just rolled out the PC Game Update January 30 for Battlefield 4. Apart from bug fixes and balancing, the patch comes with the long-awaited Mantle support. This new render engine is a low-level graphics API which should increase the BF4 performance for people who have an AMD video card which supports Mantle. Find out about the requirements and how to use the Mantle renderer here.
Thief released on February 24 2014 FOOL in fact BF4 got mantle support before thief release,not only that BF4 used mantle like code on PS4 since day 1 in on the same freaking screen you posted and released on 2013 so again I AM FREAKING RIGHT YOU BLIND BIASED LEMMING.
DICE was in deed the first to make a DX12 like game for any platform get your damn fact right.
NO i am not tell that to MS and Dice which you claim SWBF3 was in deed the first DX12 game,even if fable was going to be you can't count something that never release or cancel or that came after Dice game which was DX12.
Save your pathetic excuse and shitty arguments DX12 is on SWBF3 and it is the first game to have it,both are at the same level the PS4 and XBO on this game and the PS4 again beat the xbox frame wise and resolution wise to.
So nothing changed DX12 failed.
@04dcarraher said:
@imt558 said:
Dude, can you explain why DICE dec said that Battlefront don't need a "patch" for DX12 like some games on PC ( Hitman, Tomb Raider )? Cuz Battlefront already uses full DX12. Looks like lems can't believe that one DX12 game is 720p on Xbone.
Dice never stated what was used in BF in DX12, and fact is that Battlefront is not a native DX12 game, and is still not even a hint in DX12 on PC version getting an update for it. If BF was a native DX12 game on X1 it would also be on PC and Dice would have used it since they openly supported Mantle API on PC.... Tomb raider is also not a native DX12 game, it just got a DX12 patch on pc which actually didn't do anything besides include a more advanced version of AO ie VXAO.
Oh so once again you ignore that the PS4 version of BF4 got mantle like coding before PC.? Hell mantle like coding on freaking PC is new on consoles aside from some few things that was the case for years,i prove it tons of times and you ignore it Mantle was MOSTLY console like optimization on PC the xbox one even had most of the damn features since launch because it was a damn console i remember how they made a parade about draw calls on PC,when on consoles that never was a freaking problem and when consoles were able to do 4 or 5 times more draw calls per frame than PC stated by AMD it self.
DX12 would never benefit the freaking xbox like it would PC because most of the features already the xbox one had them,and in fact games like Project cars were say to gain 40% on PC vs 7% on xbox one with DX12 which tell the whole damn story,you like a hard headed sony hater didn't listen....
This is Tormentos ending this mighty ownage in style,for you and @StormyJoe and @ronvalencia which were the 3 biggest defenders of DX12 on xbox one.
your in so much denial about the facts, and have a really unhealthy grudge to downplay and bash an inferior console that gets a positive feature that actually benefits PS4 with multiplats too.
Wrong again your ignoring the fact the 360 didnt have true multithreaded cpu to gpu communication and the X1 also lacked the same feature until DX12. Then with PS4 only a select few games actually made use of the low level GNM API bypassing Direct x based single threaded communications. PS4 suffers even to this day the copy paste method of DX because X1 was still using it.
Again you have always mixed up terms low overhead, optimization and low level. Problem some is that you dont include what optimization also entails.... setting limitations.
Its because you have little to no understanding, The "parade" about the draw calls was because the physical limits in DX 9 ....and the fine print most missed or ignored was vs comparable hardware..... Draw call limits were greatly reduced when DX11 released allowing deferred multithreading.
No way!!!! X1 wont see the same gains as PC will with DX12 what a shocker!!!!! What you seem to ignore and twist is that I, Ron and others have stated that DX12 will help the X1 and it will, its not going to allow the X1 gain 30% 50% or 100% resolution gains nor will it get 50% or 100% fps gains. Its going to be minor to moderate depending on game's needs as in cpu bound or gpu bound. It will allow the X1 to reach steady frame rates, and possibly include few more detailed effects but its never going to match the PS4's grunt nor properly coded games.
Also your still in denial about the facts eh? X1's DX11.X API had a few of the same features as DX12, not all or most. DX12 incorporated alot more resource saving techniques, introduced real cpu to gpu multithreading, opened access to the X1's 2nd ACE unit. Project cars performance example is because on PC the game was still very single threaded didn't barely use deferred multithreading. Then the 7% gain on X1 is guess at the time since they didn't even work or test that assumption.X1 did receive proper deferred multithreading when pc didnt. Fact is that you ignore many devs stating DX12 will help the console but over dramatize and twist the hype and bias statements to bash.
I dont hate the PS4 , I dislike fanboys like you spreading half truths, false facts and PR blindly bashing.
I'm already aware of that tweeter entry i.e. I already posted some GDC 2016 slides before this topic.
Against your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion.
November 2015's Star Wars Battlefront was the first Direct3D12 title on XBO. YOU ARE WRONG.
Battlefield 4 not being aysnc compute enabled are for PC and XBO.
Battlefield 4 was released on October 29, 2013.
XBO's date for basic async compute functionality was onMarch 2014
The above XDK screenshot was posted multiple times and you still don't get it.
The headers for D3D11_X.h is different from D3D12.h. If you are a programmer for direct3d you know the difference between D3D11_X.h and D3D12.h.
What you didn't get is XBO has it's own additional workload while some workload was reduced.
PS4 is not like my old 7950-900Mhz where it defeated XBO and PS4 at every graphics detail categories.
Bullshit assertion you say.?
DICE just rolled out the PC Game Update January 30 for Battlefield 4. Apart from bug fixes and balancing, the patch comes with the long-awaited Mantle support. This new render engine is a low-level graphics API which should increase the BF4 performance for people who have an AMD video card which supports Mantle. Find out about the requirements and how to use the Mantle renderer here.
Thief released on February 24 2014 FOOL in fact BF4 got mantle support before thief release,not only that BF4 used mantle like code on PS4 since day 1 in on the same freaking screen you posted and released on 2013 so again I AM FREAKING RIGHT YOU BLIND BIASED LEMMING.
DICE was in deed the first to make a DX12 like game for any platform get your damn fact right.
NO i am not tell that to MS and Dice which you claim SWBF3 was in deed the first DX12 game,even if fable was going to be you can't count something that never release or cancel or that came after Dice game which was DX12.
Save your pathetic excuse and shitty arguments DX12 is on SWBF3 and it is the first game to have it,both are at the same level the PS4 and XBO on this game and the PS4 again beat the xbox frame wise and resolution wise to.
So nothing changed DX12 failed.
Your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion is irrelevant for XBO since this console doesn't run AMD's Mantle..
Any gains from DirectX12 can be used for additional workloads. To properly measure DirectX12 gains, the reviewer has to run benchmarks with the same workloads.
Your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion is irrelevant for XBO since this console doesn't run AMD's Mantle..
Any gains from DirectX12 can be used for additional workloads. To properly measure DirectX12 gains to run benchmarks with the same workloads.
Try again fool.
Look at ronvalencia changing the topic and again quoting irrelevant crap..
SWBF3 is DX12 on xbox one,and on PS4 as well since we all know that coding has being on PS4 since before launch and in did it was the PS4 the first platform with a DX12 like code,and the end result is the same faster frames higher resolution the gap remained...lol
So much for DX12..lol
@04dcarraher said:
poor poor el tomato
your in so much denial about the facts, and have a really unhealthy grudge to downplay and bash an inferior console that gets a positive feature that actually benefits PS4 with multiplats too.
DX12 changed nothing and i told you so....
Now you can get back at pretending is not use on SWBF3...lol
@GarGx1 said:
What the blazes does this have to do with PC gamers?
Here's the kind of performance gains we can expect to see from DX12 on a PC.
Loading Video...
This game would melt a modern day console.
Haahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
You don't even know why an RTS of all genres is the game that would get a huge boost from DX12,a game genre which isn't even know for incredible effects or graphics..
I'll tell you is because of the DRAW CALLS which were an issue on PC but never on consoles in fact on the PS3 and 360 days consoles could do 4 5 and 6 times more draw calls per frame without problem it was on PC the issue,in fact i am a huge lover of games from the command and conquer series,and Generals actually use to quit on me when i had to much troops made and the GPU it self would turn mighty hot,this is because of the draw calls.
There is a whole article on this done by AMD explaining how consoles had the upper hand on draw calls vs PC and MS was the culprit for it,and DX funny enough even with DX on xbox 360 the console could do more draw calls than DX on PC.
So that game would not melt any console at all..
On consoles, you can draw maybe 10,000 or 20,000 chunks of geometry in a frame, and you can do that at 30-60fps. On a PC, you can't typically draw more than 2-3,000 without getting into trouble with performance, and that's quite surprising - the PC can actually show you only a tenth of the performance if you need a separate batch for each draw call.
Look how sad PC was without mantle a FX8350 with mantle can do 100k per frame,without mantle a i7 4770k can do 15k per frame,to get things into perspective the Jaguar inside the PS4 can do 35k per frame and Cell was able to pull 20k or more per frame both beating the i7 4770k without breaking a suet,the over head was freaking huge with DX,but that apply only to RTS and games with many draw calls,other engines will not see such boost as Star Swarm..
So yeah that game would not melt any console,unless the draw calls are excessively high.
Your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" BS assertion is irrelevant for XBO since this console doesn't run AMD's Mantle..
Any gains from DirectX12 can be used for additional workloads. To properly measure DirectX12 gains to run benchmarks with the same workloads.
Try again fool.
Look at ronvalencia changing the topic and again quoting irrelevant crap..
SWBF3 is DX12 on xbox one,and on PS4 as well since we all know that coding has being on PS4 since before launch and in did it was the PS4 the first platform with a DX12 like code,and the end result is the same faster frames higher resolution the gap remained...lol
So much for DX12..lol
I was addressing your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" irrelevant crap i.e. Mantle has nothing to do with XBO.
I already stated DirectX12 wouldn't fix ALU bound issues.
PS4 is almost in the same boat as XBO i.e. you need at least 2X ALU power for 1280x720p to 1920x1080p and PS4 doesn't deliver this power gap.
@tormentos said:
Oh so once again you ignore that the PS4 version of BF4 got mantle like coding before PC.? Hell mantle like coding on freaking PC is new on consoles aside from some few things that was the case for years,i prove it tons of times and you ignore it Mantle was MOSTLY console like optimization on PC the xbox one even had most of the damn features since launch because it was a damn console i remember how they made a parade about draw calls on PC,when on consoles that never was a freaking problem and when consoles were able to do 4 or 5 times more draw calls per frame than PC stated by AMD it self.
Your "xbox one even had most of the damn features since launch" assertion is false.
FALSE on multithreading model
FALSE on async compute
The workaround for PC's DX11 draw calls issue is to combine multiple draw calls into a batch. DirectX12 enables developers to remove this extra development PC cost.
Draw calls issue is more severe on AMD PC GPUs than NVIDIA GPUs i.e. NVIDIA DX11 driver has higher draw calls limit before the performance falls off the cliff.
@tormentos said:
DX12 would never benefit the freaking xbox like it would PC because most of the features already the xbox one had them,and in fact games like Project cars were say to gain 40% on PC vs 7% on xbox one with DX12 which tell the whole damn story,you like a hard headed sony hater didn't listen....
7 percent gain is not zero percent gain(your argument).
I was addressing your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" irrelevant crap i.e. Mantle has nothing to do with XBO.
I already stated DirectX12 wouldn't fix ALU bound issues.
PS4 is almost in the same boat as XBO i.e. you need at least 2X ALU power for 1280x720p to 1920x1080p and PS4 doesn't deliver this power gap.
Your "xbox one even had most of the damn features since launch" assertion is false.
FALSE on multithreading model
FALSE on async compute
The workaround for PC's DX11 draw calls issue is to combine multiple draw calls into a batch. DirectX12 enables developers to remove this extra development PC cost.
Draw calls issue is more severe on AMD PC GPUs than NVIDIA GPUs i.e. NVIDIA DX11 driver has higher draw calls limit before the performance falls off the cliff.
7 percent gain is not zero percent gain(your argument).
Go change your argument elsewhere,Mantle isn't on xbox one but DX12 is and basically DX12 is a copy of Mantle,and many of those features were on xbox one all alone because it was a damn console,you say i am wrong yet you name 2 things mission yeah that is a majority right.?
The xbox one would be ALU bound in all scenarios basically because the game is done to spec so reaching the peak performance on xbox one,will yield a less performance than on PS4 so always basically the xbox one will be GPU bound so a CPU over head api will not help much when the GPU is already at peak.
Draw calls were an issue on PC period and stated by AMD is self AMD >>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
7% when your game is running at 40FPS is nothing 40 + 7% = 42.8 FPS NOTHING when the xbox one version was losing by as much as 14FPS on that game.
I was addressing your "Dice was the first developer to have a damn DX12 like game in the form of BF4" irrelevant crap i.e. Mantle has nothing to do with XBO.
I already stated DirectX12 wouldn't fix ALU bound issues.
PS4 is almost in the same boat as XBO i.e. you need at least 2X ALU power for 1280x720p to 1920x1080p and PS4 doesn't deliver this power gap.
Your "xbox one even had most of the damn features since launch" assertion is false.
FALSE on multithreading model
FALSE on async compute
The workaround for PC's DX11 draw calls issue is to combine multiple draw calls into a batch. DirectX12 enables developers to remove this extra development PC cost.
Draw calls issue is more severe on AMD PC GPUs than NVIDIA GPUs i.e. NVIDIA DX11 driver has higher draw calls limit before the performance falls off the cliff.
7 percent gain is not zero percent gain(your argument).
Go change your argument elsewhere,Mantle isn't on xbox one but DX12 is and basically DX12 is a copy of Mantle,and many of those features were on xbox one all alone because it was a damn console,you say i am wrong yet you name 2 things mission yeah that is a majority right.?
The xbox one would be ALU bound in all scenarios basically because the game is done to spec so reaching the peak performance on xbox one,will yield a less performance than on PS4 so always basically the xbox one will be GPU bound so a CPU over head api will not help much when the GPU is already at peak.
Draw calls were an issue on PC period and stated by AMD is self AMD >>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
7% when your game is running at 40FPS is nothing 40 + 7% = 42.8 FPS NOTHING when the xbox one version was losing by as much as 14FPS on that game.
1. SW-BF being the XBO's first "DirectX12" title just debunked your XBO's DX11.X = DX12 argument.
2. DX12 would not solve ALU bound issues. Why does DX12 solve? Answer: Mostly CPU bound issues.
NVIDIA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you e.g. Project Cars PC's problem was mostly AMD's lower draw call limit for DX11 drivers. Most Project Cars PC patches deals with batch improvements, hence larger impact on increasing frame rates on AMD GPUs.
https://developer.nvidia.com/dx12-dos-and-donts
On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible
NVIDIA's driver has a better heuristic re-complier from Direct3D ASM to NVIDIA PTX i.e. "where possible"
Under DX12, driver MT and asynchronous task was exposed to the programmer and AMD catches up to NVIDIA's driver MT and asynchronous task.
AMD has similar brain dead implementation in XBO DX11 driver i.e. MT deferred context being serialised intermediate context thread and the driver is too stupid.
As NVIDIA Maxwellv2 user, Mantle is just AMD's way to catch up to NVIDIA i.e. Mantle is not "must have" tick box. Under DX12, the only real benefit for NVIDIA GPUs are with draw calls overhead and avoiding batch workaround.
AMD's asynchronous compute has better fine grain control and CPU context off-loading over NVIDIA's version. There are other issues with NVIDIA's Maxwellv2 in relation to Async compute vs graphics context with cache interaction but that's outside the scope for this topic.
1. SW-BF being the XBO's first "DirectX12" title just debunked your XBO's DX11.X = DX12 argument.
2. DX12 would not solve ALU bound issues. Why does DX12 solve? Answer: Mostly CPU bound issues.
NVIDIA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you e.g. Project Cars PC's problem was mostly AMD's lower draw call limit for DX11 drivers. Most Project Cars PC patches deals with batch improvements, hence larger impact on increasing frame rates on AMD GPUs.
https://developer.nvidia.com/dx12-dos-and-donts
On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible
NVIDIA's driver has a better heuristic re-complier from Direct3D ASM to NVIDIA PTX i.e. "where possible"
Under DX12, driver MT and asynchronous task was exposed to the programmer and AMD catches up to NVIDIA's driver MT and asynchronous task.
AMD has similar brain dead implementation in XBO DX11 driver i.e. MT deferred context being serialised intermediate context thread and the driver is too stupid.
As NVIDIA Maxwellv2 user, Mantle is just AMD's way to catch up to NVIDIA i.e. Mantle is not "must have" tick box. Under DX12, the only real benefit for NVIDIA GPUs are with draw calls overhead and avoiding batch workaround.
AMD's asynchronous compute has better fine grain control and CPU context off-loading over NVIDIA's version. There are other issues with NVIDIA's Maxwellv2 in relation to Async compute vs graphics context with cache interaction but that's outside the scope for this topic.
1-No you fool it doesn't.
He name more things in it than you did pointing what was missing..lol
2-Again the xbox one will always be ALU bound period because is weak and any one doing a game for multiple platforms will always find it as the lowest in the chain.
WTF does Nvidia has to do with me.? In fact Project Cars ran slower on a 750ti with an i3 than it did on the PS4 you fool because of excessive draw calls and since the game wasn't DX12 on PC the PS4 beat it,so yeah your Nvidia argument proved nothing and you have a terrible problem with language and understanding of it i see,so your Nvidia >>>> me to argument is a joke.
Draw calls have always being a problem on PC for generations is not new and AMD stated so in 2011 and by 2013 they had their own API which MS freaking rip off lemming.
I don't see anything that says it's currently DirectX 12, most games are getting a post release update until real development actually begins in the API. The very act of saying "Star Wars: Battlefront is the first DirectX 12 title on Xbox One" doesn't mean it's using the API currently, it could very well be DirectX 11 just like it is on PC.
There's no games on Xbox One currently using DirectX 12, Battlefront getting an update would still make it the first DirectX 12 game on Xbox One.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Making the Xbox version DX12 and the PC version DX11 is pretty redundant.
If the PC version was DX12, the benefit to the Xbox would have at least been the easier porting procedure.
If the PC was made with DX11, it means back then the publisher wanted to make it accessible to non Windows 10 users. The developer must have seen some advantage to using DX12 for Xbox at least. It must have done something.
1. SW-BF being the XBO's first "DirectX12" title just debunked your XBO's DX11.X = DX12 argument.
2. DX12 would not solve ALU bound issues. Why does DX12 solve? Answer: Mostly CPU bound issues.
NVIDIA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you e.g. Project Cars PC's problem was mostly AMD's lower draw call limit for DX11 drivers. Most Project Cars PC patches deals with batch improvements, hence larger impact on increasing frame rates on AMD GPUs.
https://developer.nvidia.com/dx12-dos-and-donts
On DX11 the driver does farm off asynchronous tasks to driver worker threads where possible
NVIDIA's driver has a better heuristic re-complier from Direct3D ASM to NVIDIA PTX i.e. "where possible"
Under DX12, driver MT and asynchronous task was exposed to the programmer and AMD catches up to NVIDIA's driver MT and asynchronous task.
AMD has similar brain dead implementation in XBO DX11 driver i.e. MT deferred context being serialised intermediate context thread and the driver is too stupid.
As NVIDIA Maxwellv2 user, Mantle is just AMD's way to catch up to NVIDIA i.e. Mantle is not "must have" tick box. Under DX12, the only real benefit for NVIDIA GPUs are with draw calls overhead and avoiding batch workaround.
AMD's asynchronous compute has better fine grain control and CPU context off-loading over NVIDIA's version. There are other issues with NVIDIA's Maxwellv2 in relation to Async compute vs graphics context with cache interaction but that's outside the scope for this topic.
1-No you fool it doesn't.
He name more things in it than you did pointing what was missing..lol
2-Again the xbox one will always be ALU bound period because is weak and any one doing a game for multiple platforms will always find it as the lowest in the chain.
WTF does Nvidia has to do with me.? In fact Project Cars ran slower on a 750ti with an i3 than it did on the PS4 you fool because of excessive draw calls and since the game wasn't DX12 on PC the PS4 beat it,so yeah your Nvidia argument proved nothing and you have a terrible problem with language and understanding of it i see,so your Nvidia >>>> me to argument is a joke.
Draw calls have always being a problem on PC for generations is not new and AMD stated so in 2011 and by 2013 they had their own API which MS freaking rip off lemming.
Digital Foundry: To what extent will DX12 prove useful on Xbox One? Isn't there already a low CPU overhead there in addressing the GPU?
Oles Shishkovstov: No, it's important. All the dependency tracking takes a huge slice of CPU power. And if we are talking about the multi-threaded command buffer chunks generation - the DX11 model was essentially a 'flop', while DX12 should be the right one.
2. AMD Mantle tick box nearly has zero effect in the market place and I have PC's dGPU market share to back my arguments.
I see you got off your NyaDc Dynamitecop accounts,...lol
@GarGx1 said:
@tormentos: Why are you speaking to me? I've made quite clear that I don't want to read your drivel. You're a clueless moron and I couldn't care less if you created this thread or not, I was not talking to you. Now please don't address me unless you have something worthwhile to say, which to date you clearly do not.
Want to see a meltdown blackace here ^^ is one..lol
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