EA: Battlefield 3 versus Modern Warfare 3 is most important battle in a decade

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I don't find their map design to be all that impressive, but perhaps I was spoiled by Quake, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, GoldenEye, the early Halo games, etc. They're not bad at it, certainly, but I don't consider them the best. I do like their character models. One wonders how much better the series would look and perform if they upgraded their tech. I'm sure id would be more than happy to license id Tech 4 to them.DarkLink77

Lol, Bethesda would have to publish it, if they do decide to use it, right?. Man, I'd like to see that, too. And I wonder what it would look like at 30fps on consoles. Maybe the'll make a new engine starting next gen?

I am sorry to disappoint you gentlemen, but MW3 will still win in terms of sales, thanks to the depth of its brand awareness across the entire gaming market. To EA, its board, the equity analysts that cover it, and its shareholders, sales is what ultimately matters. I've talked to many of my Call of Duty-playing bro-gamer buddies, and most of them are scarcely aware of E3 or know what Battlefield 3 even is.

Only hardcore folks like us, who talk about video games over the Internet, are taking notice. I hope EA has a good marketing campaign up its sleave, since a lot of that single player footage will easily encourage the casual gamer to pick up the game. I am encouraging my friends to take a look, and they are deeply impressed by what they have seen so far.

EA needs a birdie for this holiday quarter.

I am sorry to disappoint you gentlemen, but MW3 will still win in terms of sales, thanks to the depth of its brand awareness across the entire gaming market. To EA, its board, the equity analysts that cover it, and its shareholders, sales is what ultimately matters. I've talked to many of my Call of Duty-playing bro-gamer buddies, and most of them are scarcely aware of E3 or know what Battlefield 3 even is.

Only hardcore folks like us, who talk about video games over the Internet, are taking notice. I hope EA has a good marketing campaign up its sleave, since a lot of that single player footage will easily encourage the casual gamer to pick up the game. I am encouraging my friends to take a look, and they are deeply impressed by what they have seen so far.

EA needs a birdie for this holiday quarter.

The_Capitalist

What??? More and more people are aware of BF3... I've never heard this much people talking about a battlefield game.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

I am sorry to disappoint you gentlemen, but MW3 will still win in terms of sales, thanks to the depth of its brand awareness across the entire gaming market. To EA, its board, the equity analysts that cover it, and its shareholders, sales is what ultimately matters. I've talked to many of my Call of Duty-playing bro-gamer buddies, and most of them are scarcely aware of E3 or know what Battlefield 3 even is.

Only hardcore folks like us, who talk about video games over the Internet, are taking notice. I hope EA has a good marketing campaign up its sleave, since a lot of that single player footage will easily encourage the casual gamer to pick up the game. I am encouraging my friends to take a look, and they are deeply impressed by what they have seen so far.

EA needs a birdie for this holiday quarter.

Bebi_vegeta

What??? More and more people are aware of BF3... I've never heard this much people talking about a battlefield game.

Yeah, sure. Core gamers who like posting on message boards like these are. But, the average gamer, who buys only a handful of titles per year, have yet to really pay attention.

$100 million in advertising... Could be enough. Plus, I think the word of mouth is really getting through. Call of Duty became popular largely because of that.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

I am sorry to disappoint you gentlemen, but MW3 will still win in terms of sales, thanks to the depth of its brand awareness across the entire gaming market. To EA, its board, the equity analysts that cover it, and its shareholders, sales is what ultimately matters. I've talked to many of my Call of Duty-playing bro-gamer buddies, and most of them are scarcely aware of E3 or know what Battlefield 3 even is.

Only hardcore folks like us, who talk about video games over the Internet, are taking notice. I hope EA has a good marketing campaign up its sleave, since a lot of that single player footage will easily encourage the casual gamer to pick up the game. I am encouraging my friends to take a look, and they are deeply impressed by what they have seen so far.

EA needs a birdie for this holiday quarter.

The_Capitalist

What??? More and more people are aware of BF3... I've never heard this much people talking about a battlefield game.

Yeah, sure. Core gamers who like posting on message boards like these are. But, the average gamer, who buys only a handful of titles per year, have yet to really pay attention.

$100 million in advertising... Could be enough. Plus, I think the word of mouth is really getting through. Call of Duty became popular largely because of that.

Even with equal market awareness I don't see BF 3 getting better sales, the game feels way to serious for the so called casual.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

I am sorry to disappoint you gentlemen, but MW3 will still win in terms of sales, thanks to the depth of its brand awareness across the entire gaming market. To EA, its board, the equity analysts that cover it, and its shareholders, sales is what ultimately matters. I've talked to many of my Call of Duty-playing bro-gamer buddies, and most of them are scarcely aware of E3 or know what Battlefield 3 even is.

Only hardcore folks like us, who talk about video games over the Internet, are taking notice. I hope EA has a good marketing campaign up its sleave, since a lot of that single player footage will easily encourage the casual gamer to pick up the game. I am encouraging my friends to take a look, and they are deeply impressed by what they have seen so far.

EA needs a birdie for this holiday quarter.

The_Capitalist

What??? More and more people are aware of BF3... I've never heard this much people talking about a battlefield game.

Yeah, sure. Core gamers who like posting on message boards like these are. But, the average gamer, who buys only a handful of titles per year, have yet to really pay attention.

$100 million in advertising... Could be enough. Plus, I think the word of mouth is really getting through. Call of Duty became popular largely because of that.

Not core gamers... just by judging on my facebook, people in general seem hyped about BF3 and less about COD...

Battlefield 3's teaser trailer drew only 817,000 views. Their initial gameplay trailer drew around 2,500,000. Modern Warfare 3's drew over 11,000,000. There is more positive buzz surrounding MW3 than what many of you "core" gamers may think. Not to say that Battlefield 3 won't have its audience, but I believe that it would be an overstatement to claim that everyone hates Call of Duty and loves Battlefield. A few dozen posters on an Internet message board is not indicative of the mood of the mass market.

I hope Battlefield succeeds and does well... just like most people, but ultimately, I don't care how this game sells. I have zero stake in EA. I just want a good first person shooter.

There is a lot of buzz about BF3, but not nearly enough to make a serious dent against Call of Duty. Time will tell, however.

Battlefield 3's teaser trailer drew only 817,000 views. Their initial gameplay trailer drew around 2,500,000. Modern Warfare 3's drew over 11,000,000. There is more positive buzz surrounding MW3 than what many of you "core" gamers may think. Not to say that Battlefield 3 won't have its audience, but I believe that it would be an overstatement to claim that everyone hates Call of Duty and loves Battlefield. A few dozen posters on an Internet message board is not indicative of the mood of the mass market.

I hope Battlefield succeeds and does well... just like most people, but ultimately, I don't care how this game sells. I have zero stake in EA. I just want a good first person shooter.

There is a lot of buzz about BF3, but not nearly enough to make a serious dent against Call of Duty. Time will tell, however.

The_Capitalist

I have no idea where you get your numbers... youtube?

The battlefeild series was strickly PC, and then came bad company to let console buyers what BF series looks like. But now a real BF game is coming to console...

I don't care about sells either, I don't play sells.

But I'm pretty sure PC wise, BF3 will sell more, console wise, probably not.

Yeah, I got them from Youtube.

And Twitter trends indicate the same, too. More buzz around Modern Warfare.

Battlefield 3 will sell at least ten million, but MW3 will probably do more than twice that.

Can BF3 generate over a billion dollars in revenue for EA? They would need to move at least fifteen to twenty million units to do so. If they can, I would be very impressed.

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Call of Duty is low quality compared to most FPS games on the market.DarkLink77

Yeah, I got them from Youtube.

And Twitter trends indicate the same, too. More buzz around Modern Warfare.

Battlefield 3 will sell at least ten million, but MW3 will probably do more than twice that.

Can BF3 generate over a billion dollars in revenue for EA? They would need to move at least fifteen to twenty million units to do so. If they can, I would be very impressed.

The_Capitalist

Well there's a 5million view for BF3... not sure how your looking ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc

In 1 month...

Vs

11million for MW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

1+ year...

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

Yeah, I got them from Youtube.

And Twitter trends indicate the same, too. More buzz around Modern Warfare.

Battlefield 3 will sell at least ten million, but MW3 will probably do more than twice that.

Can BF3 generate over a billion dollars in revenue for EA? They would need to move at least fifteen to twenty million units to do so. If they can, I would be very impressed.

Bebi_vegeta

Well there's a 5million view for BF3... not sure how your looking ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc

In 1 month...

Vs

11million for MW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

1+ year...

Wrong videos. Look at the official ones. And the Fault Line trailer didn't come out until a bit after the game was announced.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

Yeah, I got them from Youtube.

And Twitter trends indicate the same, too. More buzz around Modern Warfare.

Battlefield 3 will sell at least ten million, but MW3 will probably do more than twice that.

Can BF3 generate over a billion dollars in revenue for EA? They would need to move at least fifteen to twenty million units to do so. If they can, I would be very impressed.

The_Capitalist

Well there's a 5million view for BF3... not sure how your looking ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc

In 1 month...

Vs

11million for MW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

1+ year...

Wrong videos. Look at the official ones. And the Fault Line trailer didn't come out until a bit after the game was announced.

So your saying MW3 was announced 2 weeks ago?

I'll admit 2weeks, 11 millions views.

Unless I just can't find your video...

Anyway, I don't think it matters when the video was release... views are views.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Well there's a 5million view for BF3... not sure how your looking ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc

In 1 month...

Vs

11million for MW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5tRNs2X5Q4

1+ year...

Bebi_vegeta

Wrong videos. Look at the official ones. And the Fault Line trailer didn't come out until a bit after the game was announced.

So your saying MW3 was announced 2 weeks ago?

I'll admit 2weeks, 11 millions views.

Unless I just can't find your video...

Anyway, I don't think it matters when the video was release... views are views.

you mean this one..

We'll know how the games did from a commercial standpoint once EA releases its Q3 2012 report and Activision its Q4 2011 report.

I doubt BF3 would break a billion in revenue, while MW3 would do that quite handily.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

Wrong videos. Look at the official ones. And the Fault Line trailer didn't come out until a bit after the game was announced.

killzonexbox

So your saying MW3 was announced 2 weeks ago?

I'll admit 2weeks, 11 millions views.

Unless I just can't find your video...

Anyway, I don't think it matters when the video was release... views are views.

you mean this one..

Yes, which I linked the first time... he said it was the wrong one... released 1+ year ago.

We'll know how the games did from a commercial standpoint once EA releases its Q3 2012 report and Activision its Q4 2011 report.

I doubt BF3 would break a billion in revenue, while MW3 would do that quite handily.

The_Capitalist

Also, if Activision insert a monthly price to get online acces or content... may change alot of things.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Well I don't know bout anyone else but I believe BF3 will be the catalyst for the downfall of the CoD series.

dercoo

I'm inclined to agree

Will BF3 kill MW3 in sales, no

Will the momentum start to shift away from the ageing franchise, yeah

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Activision deserves little respect. IW might deserve some, now that West and Zampella are gone. They were talentless ****.

DarkLink77

it's funny you think there is a difference between the two

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]I love how you just know that, without any actual knowledge of what kind of contributions they made to the games they worked on.

butisitbluray

it's funny you think there is a difference between the two

Riccitiello also says that he doesn't think DICE will be able to release a game on the level of Battlefield 3 on a yearly basis. They are shooting for quality first and will have a new game for most years but not every year.

Yeah, let's see how long that will last if BF3 outsells CoD.

If this is the most important battle of the decade then this has been a terrible decade. 9/11, Iraqi freedom, iPod vs Zune, oil prices, Fox News vs people with brains. I can think of a few others I guess. Oh and Battlefield 3 wins this one hands down..........GoldenElementXL

Buddy buddy buddy... we're talking about game here...

[QUOTE="GoldenElementXL"]If this is the most important battle of the decade then this has been a terrible decade. 9/11, Iraqi freedom, iPod vs Zune, oil prices, Fox News vs people with brains. I can think of a few others I guess. Oh and Battlefield 3 wins this one hands down..........Bebi_vegeta

Buddy buddy buddy... we're talking about game here...

I'll eventually get them both on some sale, so it's not like I have to choose one over the other, it's not a p2p mmo. Both great games I'm presuming - you shoot and people die, Great!

Ha, right. Which will dominate? Typical modern era shooter A or typical Modern era shooter B. Choose carefully, One has betterer graphics so obviously it's the better one.

I swear, Battlefield 3 is closest gaming example of people acting like it's the second coming Christ.

vashkey

Riccitiello also says that he doesn't think DICE will be able to release a game on the level of Battlefield 3 on a yearly basis. They are shooting for quality first and will have a new game for most years but not every year.coreybg

Yeah, let's see how long that will last if BF3 outsells CoD.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="GoldenElementXL"]If this is the most important battle of the decade then this has been a terrible decade. 9/11, Iraqi freedom, iPod vs Zune, oil prices, Fox News vs people with brains. I can think of a few others I guess. Oh and Battlefield 3 wins this one hands down..........GoldenElementXL

Buddy buddy buddy... we're talking about game here...

Sir, comeback with some sense...

Since ive been blowing on bout BF3 on my facebook a few of my friends arent going the MW3 route and are like ZOMG this looks liek best game since CoD4.

Then again they are jumpin on my rehash warfare bandwagon :( this is my wagon on FB ya hear!!

[QUOTE="coreybg"]

"Riccitiello also says that he doesn't think DICE will be able to release a game on the level of Battlefield 3 on a yearly basis. They are shooting for quality first and will have a new game for most years but not every year."

Yeah, let's see how long that will last if BF3 outsells CoD.

DragonfireXZ95

I think a key distinction people ignore is that COD is handled by multiple teams, each with 2-year dev cycles. Treyarch alone, for example, employs well over 200 people! They have multiple machines keeping up with high demand.

Right now, isn't DICE the only studio working on Battlefield games (they're over 200 strong)? I reckon if BF3 pushed COD numbers, EA would like to create a similar schedule, lol. Maybe that's not feasible for them considering the numbers.

And are we forgetting that this will be the second Battlefield game in under 2 years? By the same developer, no less. :/

Edit: Also, the marketing budget for BF3 is crazy, so I heard. They're pushing this one hard.

Well I don't know bout anyone else but I believe BF3 will be the catalyst for the downfall of the CoD series.

Mystic-G

Amen bro

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"]

[QUOTE="coreybg"]

"Riccitiello also says that he doesn't think DICE will be able to release a game on the level of Battlefield 3 on a yearly basis. They are shooting for quality first and will have a new game for most years but not every year."

Yeah, let's see how long that will last if BF3 outsells CoD.

Episode_Eve

I think a key distinction people ignore is that COD is handled by multiple teams, each with 2-year dev cycles. Treyarch alone, for example, employs well over 200 people! They have multiple machines keeping up with high demand.

Right now, isn't DICE the only studio working on Battlefield games (they're over 200 strong)? I reckon if BF3 pushed COD numbers, EA would like to create a similar schedule, lol. Maybe that's not feasible for them considering the numbers.

And are we forgetting that this will be the second Battlefield game in under 2 years? By the same developer, no less. :/

Edit: Also, the marketing budget for BF3 is crazy, so I heard. They're pushing this one hard.

Activision pays more for the reviews. Cod cant get under 9.

Also the young brats and casuals are just conna buy Cod again.

Ofcourse BF3 will be the better game and will be 100x more fun just like Bad Company 2 was compared to the same old Cod.

Battlefield 3 will be eating the dust effects you saw in the trailers.

What battle? There are tons of shooters out there that are better than Call of Duty already, so this is really just a battle of catering to semi-casuals and bribing reviewers, hence why I don't give a damn.

They're both going to be the same bland military shooter that we've played for the gazillionth time this gen, which will soon be replaced by the next iteration no less (similarly to Black Ops and Bad Company 2). I really wish people would open their eyes to this. Why waste your money on a game you know will shortly become obsolete when the next cookie-cutter FPS releases?SpinoRaptor24

It's been six years since Battlefield 2 came out. There hasn't been many multiplayer warfare games of that kind since.

There's a reason to get excited for BF3 lol.

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]They're both going to be the same bland military shooter that we've played for the gazillionth time this gen, which will soon be replaced by the next iteration no less (similarly to Black Ops and Bad Company 2). I really wish people would open their eyes to this. Why waste your money on a game you know will shortly become obsolete when the next cookie-cutter FPS releases?FrozenLiquid

It's been six years since Battlefield 2 came out. There hasn't been many multiplayer warfare games of that kind since.

There's a reason to get excited for BF3 lol.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]They're both going to be the same bland military shooter that we've played for the gazillionth time this gen, which will soon be replaced by the next iteration no less (similarly to Black Ops and Bad Company 2). I really wish people would open their eyes to this. Why waste your money on a game you know will shortly become obsolete when the next cookie-cutter FPS releases?SpinoRaptor24

It's been six years since Battlefield 2 came out. There hasn't been many multiplayer warfare games of that kind since.

There's a reason to get excited for BF3 lol.

How generalistic of you, if you played any of these games then you would have known that there are quite a bit of significant differences.
Besides that he specifically said 'warfare games of that kind' which obviously implies that he was reffering to BF 2 alike warfare games.

He is completely right, there has been no BF 2 alike game since BF 2.

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

It's been six years since Battlefield 2 came out. There hasn't been many multiplayer warfare games of that kind since.

There's a reason to get excited for BF3 lol.

rastotm

How generalistic of you, if you played any of these games then you would have known that there are quite a bit of significant differences.
Besides that he specifically said 'warfare games of that kind' which obviously implies that he was reffering to BF 2 alike warfare games.

He is completely right, there has been no BF 2 alike game since BF 2.

He has a point. It can be said about video games in general. Why buy new games if the old ones are just fine?

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]They're both going to be the same bland military shooter that we've played for the gazillionth time this gen, which will soon be replaced by the next iteration no less (similarly to Black Ops and Bad Company 2). I really wish people would open their eyes to this. Why waste your money on a game you know will shortly become obsolete when the next cookie-cutter FPS releases?SpinoRaptor24

It's been six years since Battlefield 2 came out. There hasn't been many multiplayer warfare games of that kind since.

There's a reason to get excited for BF3 lol.

This whole 'battle' is starting to annoy me to no end. Whether it's the minority complex of some BF3 fanboys or the 'sales r everything' blabbering from the CoD fanboys; this is starting to get old quick. Yes, I know both games have the same setting, but in terms of gameplay they've always been pretty different, especially when you use the old Battlefield games in the comparison. This whole 'battle' is nothing but a lame marketing tactic that gets people to talk about these games constantly. It's a **** measuring contest from which both games will eventually benefit.

Man, I look forward to the day where we can discuss an FPS without refering to CoD all the time.

This whole 'battle' is starting to annoy me to no end. Whether it's the minority complex of some BF3 fanboys or the 'sales r everything' blabbering from the CoD fanboys; this is starting to get old quick. Yes, I know both games have the same setting, but in terms of gameplay they've always been pretty different, especially when you use the old Battlefield games in the comparison. This whole 'battle' is nothing but a lame marketing tactic that gets people to talk about these games constantly. It's a **** measuring contest from which both games will eventually benefit.

Man, I look forward to the day where we can discuss an FPS without refering to CoD all the time.

DraugenCP

EA and Activision don't need spokesmen anymore - they have rabid fans who will speak for them!

Seriously, though, a lot of money is involved, so that's why we are having this debate.

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

This whole 'battle' is starting to annoy me to no end. Whether it's the minority complex of some BF3 fanboys or the 'sales r everything' blabbering from the CoD fanboys; this is starting to get old quick. Yes, I know both games have the same setting, but in terms of gameplay they've always been pretty different, especially when you use the old Battlefield games in the comparison. This whole 'battle' is nothing but a lame marketing tactic that gets people to talk about these games constantly. It's a **** measuring contest from which both games will eventually benefit.

Man, I look forward to the day where we can discuss an FPS without refering to CoD all the time.

The_Capitalist

EA and Activision don't need spokesmen anymore - they have rabid fans who will speak for them!

Seriously, though, a lot of money is involved, so that's why we are having this debate.

If it was all about the money, then let EA and Activision CEOs battle it out in their seperate thread here at SW. I'll bring popcorn and beer.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

This whole 'battle' is starting to annoy me to no end. Whether it's the minority complex of some BF3 fanboys or the 'sales r everything' blabbering from the CoD fanboys; this is starting to get old quick. Yes, I know both games have the same setting, but in terms of gameplay they've always been pretty different, especially when you use the old Battlefield games in the comparison. This whole 'battle' is nothing but a lame marketing tactic that gets people to talk about these games constantly. It's a **** measuring contest from which both games will eventually benefit.

Man, I look forward to the day where we can discuss an FPS without refering to CoD all the time.

DraugenCP

EA and Activision don't need spokesmen anymore - they have rabid fans who will speak for them!

Seriously, though, a lot of money is involved, so that's why we are having this debate.

If it was all about the money, then let EA and Activision CEOs battle it out in their seperate thread here at SW. I'll bring popcorn and beer.

I am more interested in the business side of things, but apparently most people just want to talk about differences in gameplay all day. They are different games going after similar target markets. Both games will be great to play. EA can hype BF3 all they want, but unless they make certain changes, CoD's instant gratification, brand awareness, and network effects will still win over the casual gamers.

Question is, can EA generate as much revenue from BF3 as Activision can from MW3? A number which is very difficult to project.

I think its not neccessarily going to beat it in sales, though quality will be no doubt superior to cod. What they should be focusing on right now is to harm the cod momentum severely, and then keep hacking away at it in the coming years with more and more better games. Then soon they'll achieve what they want, destroying the cod franchise.

[QUOTE="DraugenCP"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

EA and Activision don't need spokesmen anymore - they have rabid fans who will speak for them!

Seriously, though, a lot of money is involved, so that's why we are having this debate.

The_Capitalist

If it was all about the money, then let EA and Activision CEOs battle it out in their seperate thread here at SW. I'll bring popcorn and beer.

I am more interested in the business side of things, but apparently most people just want to talk about differences in gameplay all day. They are different games going after similar target markets. Both games will be great to play. EA can hype BF3 all they want, but unless they make certain changes, CoD's instant gratification, brand awareness, and network effects will still win over the casual gamers.

Question is, can EA generate as much revenue from BF3 as Activision can from MW3? A number which is very difficult to project.

To be honest, I've barely heard anyone bring up the business side of things, simply because this isn't the most interesting aspect for gamers. As a result, most discussions here are just about how crap MW3 looks to BF3 in comparison or about how slow BF3 is compared to MW3. For me, this is just a marketing battle that normal gamers shouldn't buy into.

I think its not neccessarily going to beat it in sales, though quality will be no doubt superior to cod. What they should be focusing on right now is to harm the cod momentum severely, and then keep hacking away at it in the coming years with more and more better games. Then soon they'll achieve what they want, destroying the cod franchise.

PSdual_wielder

Silly. CoD will always have its fanbase. However, can BF3 beat CoD's intrinsic advantages (brand recognition, network effects) and encourge people and their friends to try BF3 as well?

I think EA will be able to move a minimum of eight to ten million copies across all platforms by the end of the year for BF3. Won't beat MW3 in terms of sales, but that is what DLC is for!