EA says they BACKED THE WRONG HORSE (PS3,360)... regrets lack of Wii support!!!!
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Now BLACKBOND watch you are going to LOVE this *I'm helping you out with your argument*. :)
About those saying that core gamers make up most of the market and devs make the best selling genres only take a look at this list form the high respectable nextgen-biz.com for the best selling games in all the gaming industry for the year 2006.
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.
Now BLACKBOND watch you are going to LOVE this *I'm helping you out with your argument*. :)
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Also about those saying that core gamers make up most of the market and devs make the best selling genres only take a look at this list form the high respectable nextgen-biz.com for the best selling games in all the gaming industry for the year 2006.
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Dencore
And that's a wrap.
[QUOTE="Dencore"]Now BLACKBOND watch you are going to LOVE this *I'm helping you out with your argument*. :)
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Also about those saying that core gamers make up most of the market and devs make the best selling genres only take a look at this list form the high respectable nextgen-biz.com for the best selling games in all the gaming industry for the year 2006.
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Blackbond
And that's a wrap.
Funny thing is they won't acknowledge this. I posted the exact same thing *almost dead on* in another thread the fanboys either claimed I created it in paint *even though I clearly posted a link* or just clearly ignored it blindedly argued that these genres aren't the most popular in the industry.
Actually Blackbond how much are you willing to bet that a fanboy will quote me with this response and dismiss it?
[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="Dencore"]Now BLACKBOND watch you are going to LOVE this *I'm helping you out with your argument*. :)
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Also about those saying that core gamers make up most of the market and devs make the best selling genres only take a look at this list form the high respectable nextgen-biz.com for the best selling games in all the gaming industry for the year 2006.
Sports and Licenses conquer all, actually put together they sell almost THREE TIMES as much as Shooters and RPG's combined. Now how many shooters and RPG's are currently hyped for this year?
Publishers publish as many games they will make money with they aren't limited to a certain amount, they don't turn their back on money. If there's money to be made in the core gamer market then so be it, if not then so be it, it all depends if YOU buy their games or not, not how much a different type of game sells.Dencore
And that's a wrap.
Funny thing is they won't acknowledge this. I posted the exact same thing *almost dead on* in another thread the fanboys either claimed I created it in paint *even though I clearly posted a link* or just clearly ignored it blindedly argued that these genres aren't the most popular in the industry.
Actually Blackbond how much are you willing to bet that a fanboy will quote me with this response and dismiss it?
The problem we have isn't with your chart, the problem I have with your point-of-view is that you see the Wii as an alleviation of this problem, and your use of market failures rather than market success to suggest industry direction. When you post such things as a defense of a system that, frankly, has increased the threats to traditional hardcore gaming (disgaea, fallout, et cetera) and damaged small developers more than it has helped them (please keep reading, read the whole thing, I gave you that respect) it suggest to me you believe Nintendo's PR department, and of course you're going to get attacked for such blatant brand-loyalty.
The big increase in development cost came largely when the transition from 2D to 3D was made. With this leap, making a professional-quality game sky-rocketed. With the move to much higher resolution home gaming, standard engines, and the need for a great deal of high-end asset (textures, character models, et cetera) creation, the cost of creating any one game is huge.
I have noticed you claim that only low-budget games are harcore, rather than attempt to prove this wrong, I'd like to show you that the Wii has done the *least* for the small developers you have claimed produce hardcore games in the past. Nintendo makes a profit on every Wii sold, they have the least reason to fear small-developers and homebrew eating away any chance of profits (which they have been gaining in abundance), and yet they are the only current-generation system with *no* outlet for a new developer, sans a full-budget, retail distributed game on the Wii.
This is in stark contrast to the PC, where micro-budget titles (under one million) are constantly released, and also in contrast to the Xbox 360 and PS3, where XBLA, PSN, and XNA development have all offered a much-cheaper venue for new developers to create games. Nintendo, intent on dominating the low-cost title market with their own Virtual Console games, has not opened up *any* outlet for micro-budget development. Not only that, but with XNA and Linux, both the 360 and PS3 are opening up for homebrew, giving young designers the chance to gain valuable skills, without having to modify a system.
Yet the Wii, the least expensive system on the market, a system Nintendo profits on, and a perfect candidate for micro-budget distribution (of niche and low-budget core titles) is not open to such a venture. The PC remains as the choice platform for this, which is an absolute shame.
I enjoy high-budget presentation, and I feel the Wii removes an incentive to create a high-budget, traditional core title for many third party developers. As you demonstrated in your own "official ownage" thread, many small-budget risks have failed, what incentive is there to take a $30 million gamble such as Final Fantasy VII, or to create the next Chrono Trigger on the Wii? For someone like yourself that does not feel the high-budget presentation is needed, I've also shown that a wall has been erected essentially barring developers with less than $3 million from creating a game - as the overhead of full retail distribution is also high, it is not cost-effective to make a micro-budget title and attempt to sell it on disc on store shelves. Simply put, a new 2D game from an unknown franchise usually cannot sell at a high-enough price (generally at least $20 ~ $30) to enough gamers to make retail distribution cost-effective. Going to full 3D presentation and retail-distributing these games is risky, as Okami demonstrated.
What the Wii has done to the market is created a wall at below $3 million, and above $10 million, which I feel is limiting in both directions. Presentation needs to advance because the better the hardware and development tools on the market, the better the presentation of a low-budget game (for example, the quality of a low-budget 2D title such as Odin Sphere or Okami is much higher than an even more expensive title in the NES era, and free develpment tools to create 2D games of SNES quality are so simple to use, my younger brother has built his own platformer with a few months of hard work).
At the same time, there needs to be a venue for homebrew and microbudget to be recognized - something Nintendo has been opposed to basically since the NES (they have never opened up their system). So, as I have said, I am opposed to Nintendo's vision with the Wii.
While we might agree that there's a bad trend in gaming, I think we disagree on how to solve it. I do ask for a respectful response Dencore, and I'd be glad if you had read all of this to this point.
The problem we have isn't with your chart, the problem I have with your point-of-view is that you see the Wii as an alleviation of this problem, and your use of market failures rather than market success to suggest industry direction. When you post such things as a defense of a system that, frankly, has increased the threats to traditional hardcore gaming (disgaea, fallout, et cetera) and damaged small developers more than it has helped them (please keep reading, read the whole thing, I gave you that respect) it suggest to me you believe Nintendo's PR department, and of course you're going to get attacked for such blatant brand-loyalty.
The big increase in development cost came largely when the transition from 2D to 3D was made. With this leap, making a professional-quality game sky-rocketed. With the move to much higher resolution home gaming, standard engines, and the need for a great deal of high-end asset (textures, character models, et cetera) creation, the cost of creating any one game is huge.
I have noticed you claim that only low-budget games are harcore,I've said this?All I said that many small devs. made hardcore games.
rather than attempt to prove this wrong, I'd like to show you that the Wii has done the *least* for the small developers you have claimed produce hardcore games in the past. Nintendo makes a profit on every Wii sold, they have the least reason to fear small-developers and homebrew eating away any chance of profits (which they have been gaining in abundance), and yet they are the only current-generation system with *no* outlet for a new developer, sans a full-budget, retail distributed game on the Wii.
Is that why their are already plenty of games for the Wii for the small developers with the system being out less then a year?
Project O
This is in stark contrast to the PC, where micro-budget titles (under one million) are constantly released, and also in contrast to the Xbox 360 and PS3, where XBLA, PSN, and XNA development have all offered a much-cheaper venue for new developers to create games. Nintendo, intent on dominating the low-cost title market with their own Virtual Console games, has not opened up *any* outlet for micro-budget development. Not only that, but with XNA and Linux, both the 360 and PS3 are opening up for homebrew, giving young designers the chance to gain valuable skills, without having to modify a system.
I don't think you get it. Those games aren't full games they're just pick up and play games. Developers want to create full games on consoles. If you look at No More Heroes that is a full game, geometry wars and little big planet are just a pick up and play experience. And so far there aren't any full games by small developers are that aren't a ports on the PSN or XBLA. And PC microbudget titles have been out for years even before the 2D to 3D transition. The Wii has by far done the most for the small developer. There's a big difference to those developers who just want to make "small pick up and play games" then those that want to make a big solid game. THOSE are the developers Nintendo is helping the ones that want to create full games.
Yet the Wii, the least expensive system on the market, a system Nintendo profits on, and a perfect candidate for micro-budget distribution (of niche and low-budget core titles) is not open to such a venture. The PC remains as the choice platform for this, which is an absolute shame.It's always been the choice of platform ever since it came to existence...
I enjoy high-budget presentation, and I feel the Wii removes an incentive to create a high-budget, traditional core title for many third party developersAs you demonstrated in your own "official ownage" thread, many small-budget risks have failed,I didn't list any small budget titles for the Wii in that thread period. :|
what incentive is there to take a $30 million gamble such as Final Fantasy VII, or to create the next Chrono Trigger on the Wii? For someone like yourself that does not feel the high-budget presentation is needed, I've also shown that a wall has been erected essentially barring developers with less than $3 million from creating a game - as the overhead of full retail distribution is also high, it is not cost-effective to make a micro-budget title and attempt to sell it on disc on store shelves. Simply put, a new 2D game from an unknown franchise usually cannot sell at a high-enough price (generally at least $20 ~ $30) to enough gamers to make retail distribution cost-effective. Going to full 3D presentation and retail-distributing these games is risky, as Okami demonstrated.
Umm okay this is why I got pist at the other thread. I just posted how sports and licenses sell much more then any other game genre. Not only that it's obviously cheaper to make a Tony Hawk clone then a full RPG. Yey their are more RPG's slated for release. Why? It's called a dedicated dev. And you contridicted yourself in this. You said that many small devs have found successs in the PC market place, XBLA, and PSN why don't the devs just make games on that?Your statement makes no sense. Finally it costs the SAME amount of money to create a Wii game then to create a PS2 game, a system with many amazing games.
And no there is no barrier at 3 million as state here.
"The Wii may prove to be a windfall, since games cost $2 million to $5 million to create, a fraction of the $20 million to $30 million spent on PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 titles, Taylor said. Also, Wii appears to be expanding the market, rather than stealing sales from rivals, he said."
Developers create games as expensive as they want to not anybody else.
What the Wii has done to the market is created a wall at below $3 million, and above $10 million,You can't be serious, Trauma Center, Elebits, Sonic and the Secret Rings, and No More Heroes are all under 10 million in costs. And the Xbox 360 has created a wall above 10 million and below 1 million. Yes it's still getting good games. Why? Developers don't have a limit of spending they spend how much they want. That statement makes no sense.
which I feel is limiting in both directions. Presentation needs to advance because the better the hardware and development tools on the market, the better the presentation of a low-budget game (for example, the quality of a low-budget 2D title such as Odin Sphere or Okami is much higher than an even more expensive title in the NES era, and free develpment tools to create 2D games of SNES quality are so simple to use, my younger brother has built his own platformer with a few months of hard work).
Wait hold on a second. First you call Okami "low-budget" which is wasn't. Also there's something called a PC which has ALWAYS been more powerful then the consoles. So I assume the PS3 and 360 are damaging to the industry and developers since they hold back multiplats for the PC correct?
At the same time, there needs to be a venue for homebrew and microbudget to be recognized - something Nintendo has been opposed to basically since the NES (they have never opened up their system). So, as I have said, I am opposed to Nintendo's vision with the Wii.Ever heard of Wiiware? And Nintendo has
While we might agree that there's a bad trend in gaming, I think we disagree on how to solve it. I do ask for a respectful response Dencore, and I'd be glad if you had read all of this to this point. And they were't against microbudget titles but piracy since devs didn't license their games from them. :| subrosian
No offense to you or anything but...no just no.
You said there aren't any small developers creating games for the Wii, when there are games like No More Heroes, Project O *renamed Kings something*, and Space Station which are just a few titles.
You claimed that a small developer would choose to make games on the PSN or XBLA or PC. But the games you refer to are all pick up and play games and not full games. Not only that but PC small devs. have been avalible ever since the PC came to existence and relevant ever since the early 90's.
Then you claimed that there was a 3 million to 10 million barrier to the Wii when there is a BIGGER barrier for the PS3 and Xbox 360. Not only that I also just prooved that it costs 2 million to 5 million on average for a Wii game, Plus I listed some games that costs under 10 million to make which prooves that false. Also I prooved that those "small games" have always been availible with PC small development since.....PC's came out. Not only that you also said that they've found success, why would they stop making games on Wii if they didn't for the 360 where the difference is much BIGGER of creating a game for normal development and the small pick-up-and-play game development? That makes no sense. Then you talk about how the Wii is creating a bigger gap between the small and big developer when the 360 and PS3 HIGHLY increase that growth and you hinted that there wasn't another platform for games to have high presentation or just claimed that games need cutting edge tech. for presentation when PC gaming has been alive and well for years. Not only that you claimed that Nintendo doesn't care about homebrew or microbudget titles with something like XBLA or PSN or PC when they are launching something just like it.
WiiWare paves the way for homemade Wii gamesSo pretty much every single thing you said wasn't true or completly contridicted one another.
[QUOTE="subrosian"]
The problem we have isn't with your chart, the problem I have with your point-of-view is that you see the Wii as an alleviation of this problem, and your use of market failures rather than market success to suggest industry direction. When you post such things as a defense of a system that, frankly, has increased the threats to traditional hardcore gaming (disgaea, fallout, et cetera) and damaged small developers more than it has helped them (please keep reading, read the whole thing, I gave you that respect) it suggest to me you believe Nintendo's PR department, and of course you're going to get attacked for such blatant brand-loyalty.
The big increase in development cost came largely when the transition from 2D to 3D was made. With this leap, making a professional-quality game sky-rocketed. With the move to much higher resolution home gaming, standard engines, and the need for a great deal of high-end asset (textures, character models, et cetera) creation, the cost of creating any one game is huge.
I have noticed you claim that only low-budget games are harcore,I've said this?All I said that many small devs. made hardcore games.
rather than attempt to prove this wrong, I'd like to show you that the Wii has done the *least* for the small developers you have claimed produce hardcore games in the past. Nintendo makes a profit on every Wii sold, they have the least reason to fear small-developers and homebrew eating away any chance of profits (which they have been gaining in abundance), and yet they are the only current-generation system with *no* outlet for a new developer, sans a full-budget, retail distributed game on the Wii.
Is that why their are already plenty of games for the Wii for the small developers with the system being out less then a year?
Project O
This is in stark contrast to the PC, where micro-budget titles (under one million) are constantly released, and also in contrast to the Xbox 360 and PS3, where XBLA, PSN, and XNA development have all offered a much-cheaper venue for new developers to create games. Nintendo, intent on dominating the low-cost title market with their own Virtual Console games, has not opened up *any* outlet for micro-budget development. Not only that, but with XNA and Linux, both the 360 and PS3 are opening up for homebrew, giving young designers the chance to gain valuable skills, without having to modify a system.
I don't think you get it. Those games aren't full games they're just pick up and play games. Developers want to create full games on consoles. If you look at No More Heroes that is a full game, geometry wars and little big planet are just a pick up and play experience. And so far there aren't any full games by small developers are that aren't a ports on the PSN or XBLA. And PC microbudget titles have been out for years even before the 2D to 3D transition. The Wii has by far done the most for the small developer. There's a big difference to those developers who just want to make "small pick up and play games" then those that want to make a big solid game. THOSE are the developers Nintendo is helping the ones that want to create full games.
Yet the Wii, the least expensive system on the market, a system Nintendo profits on, and a perfect candidate for micro-budget distribution (of niche and low-budget core titles) is not open to such a venture. The PC remains as the choice platform for this, which is an absolute shame.It's always been the choice of platform ever since it came to existence...
I enjoy high-budget presentation, and I feel the Wii removes an incentive to create a high-budget, traditional core title for many third party developersAs you demonstrated in your own "official ownage" thread, many small-budget risks have failed,I didn't list any small budget titles for the Wii in that thread period. :|
what incentive is there to take a $30 million gamble such as Final Fantasy VII, or to create the next Chrono Trigger on the Wii? For someone like yourself that does not feel the high-budget presentation is needed, I've also shown that a wall has been erected essentially barring developers with less than $3 million from creating a game - as the overhead of full retail distribution is also high, it is not cost-effective to make a micro-budget title and attempt to sell it on disc on store shelves. Simply put, a new 2D game from an unknown franchise usually cannot sell at a high-enough price (generally at least $20 ~ $30) to enough gamers to make retail distribution cost-effective. Going to full 3D presentation and retail-distributing these games is risky, as Okami demonstrated.
Umm okay this is why I got pist at the other thread. I just posted how sports and licenses sell much more then any other game genre. Not only that it's obviously cheaper to make a Tony Hawk clone then a full RPG. Yey their are more RPG's slated for release. Why? It's called a dedicated dev. And you contridicted yourself in this. You said that many small devs have found successs in the PC market place, XBLA, and PSN why don't the devs just make games on that?Your statement makes no sense. Finally it costs the SAME amount of money to create a Wii game then to create a PS2 game, a system with many amazing games.
And no there is no barrier at 3 million as state here.
"The Wii may prove to be a windfall, since games cost $2 million to $5 million to create, a fraction of the $20 million to $30 million spent on PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 titles, Taylor said. Also, Wii appears to be expanding the market, rather than stealing sales from rivals, he said."
Developers create games as expensive as they want to not anybody else.
What the Wii has done to the market is created a wall at below $3 million, and above $10 million,You can't be serious, Trauma Center, Elebits, Sonic and the Secret Rings, and No More Heroes are all under 10 million in costs. And the Xbox 360 has created a wall above 10 million and below 1 million. Yes it's still getting good games. Why? Developers don't have a limit of spending they spend how much they want. That statement makes no sense.
which I feel is limiting in both directions. Presentation needs to advance because the better the hardware and development tools on the market, the better the presentation of a low-budget game (for example, the quality of a low-budget 2D title such as Odin Sphere or Okami is much higher than an even more expensive title in the NES era, and free develpment tools to create 2D games of SNES quality are so simple to use, my younger brother has built his own platformer with a few months of hard work).
Wait hold on a second. First you call Okami "low-budget" which is wasn't. Also there's something called a PC which has ALWAYS been more powerful then the consoles. So I assume the PS3 and 360 are damaging to the industry and developers since they hold back multiplats for the PC correct?
At the same time, there needs to be a venue for homebrew and microbudget to be recognized - something Nintendo has been opposed to basically since the NES (they have never opened up their system). So, as I have said, I am opposed to Nintendo's vision with the Wii.Ever heard of Wiiware? And Nintendo has
While we might agree that there's a bad trend in gaming, I think we disagree on how to solve it. I do ask for a respectful response Dencore, and I'd be glad if you had read all of this to this point. And they were't against microbudget titles but piracy since devs didn't license their games from them. :| Dencore
No offense to you or anything but...no just no.
You said there aren't any small developers creating games for the Wii, when there are games like No More Heroes, Project O *renamed Kings something*, and Space Station which are just a few titles.
You claimed that a small developer would choose to make games on the PSN or XBLA or PC. But the games you refer to are all pick up and play games and not full games. Not only that but PC small devs. have been avalible ever since the PC came to existence and relevant ever since the early 90's.
Then you claimed that there was a 3 million to 10 million barrier to the Wii when there is a BIGGER barrier for the PS3 and Xbox 360. Not only that I also just prooved that it costs 2 million to 5 million on average for a Wii game, Plus I listed some games that costs under 10 million to make which prooves that false. Also I prooved that those "small games" have always been availible with PC small development since.....PC's came out. Not only that you also said that they've found success, why would they stop making games on Wii if they didn't for the 360 where the difference is much BIGGER of creating a game for normal development and the small pick-up-and-play game development? That makes no sense. Then you talk about how the Wii is creating a bigger gap between the small and big developer when the 360 and PS3 HIGHLY increase that growth and you hinted that there wasn't another platform for games to have high presentation or just claimed that games need cutting edge tech. for presentation when PC gaming has been alive and well for years. Not only that you claimed that Nintendo doesn't care about homebrew or microbudget titles with something like XBLA or PSN or PC when they are launching something just like it.
WiiWare paves the way for homemade Wii gamesSo pretty much every single thing you said wasn't true or completly contridicted one another.
And that's a wrap once more. I was reading his post and wondering what the heck he was talking about when Nintendo had already announced WiiWare and the costs were definitely much higher on the 360 and PS3. Good going Dencore.
[QUOTE="subrosian"]
The problem we have isn't with your chart, the problem I have with your point-of-view is that you see the Wii as an alleviation of this problem, and your use of market failures rather than market success to suggest industry direction. When you post such things as a defense of a system that, frankly, has increased the threats to traditional hardcore gaming (disgaea, fallout, et cetera) and damaged small developers more than it has helped them (please keep reading, read the whole thing, I gave you that respect) it suggest to me you believe Nintendo's PR department, and of course you're going to get attacked for such blatant brand-loyalty.
The big increase in development cost came largely when the transition from 2D to 3D was made. With this leap, making a professional-quality game sky-rocketed. With the move to much higher resolution home gaming, standard engines, and the need for a great deal of high-end asset (textures, character models, et cetera) creation, the cost of creating any one game is huge.
I have noticed you claim that only low-budget games are harcore,I've said this?All I said that many small devs. made hardcore games.
rather than attempt to prove this wrong, I'd like to show you that the Wii has done the *least* for the small developers you have claimed produce hardcore games in the past. Nintendo makes a profit on every Wii sold, they have the least reason to fear small-developers and homebrew eating away any chance of profits (which they have been gaining in abundance), and yet they are the only current-generation system with *no* outlet for a new developer, sans a full-budget, retail distributed game on the Wii.
Is that why their are already plenty of games for the Wii for the small developers with the system being out less then a year?
Project O
This is in stark contrast to the PC, where micro-budget titles (under one million) are constantly released, and also in contrast to the Xbox 360 and PS3, where XBLA, PSN, and XNA development have all offered a much-cheaper venue for new developers to create games. Nintendo, intent on dominating the low-cost title market with their own Virtual Console games, has not opened up *any* outlet for micro-budget development. Not only that, but with XNA and Linux, both the 360 and PS3 are opening up for homebrew, giving young designers the chance to gain valuable skills, without having to modify a system.
I don't think you get it. Those games aren't full games they're just pick up and play games. Developers want to create full games on consoles. If you look at No More Heroes that is a full game, geometry wars and little big planet are just a pick up and play experience. And so far there aren't any full games by small developers are that aren't a ports on the PSN or XBLA. And PC microbudget titles have been out for years even before the 2D to 3D transition. The Wii has by far done the most for the small developer. There's a big difference to those developers who just want to make "small pick up and play games" then those that want to make a big solid game. THOSE are the developers Nintendo is helping the ones that want to create full games.
Yet the Wii, the least expensive system on the market, a system Nintendo profits on, and a perfect candidate for micro-budget distribution (of niche and low-budget core titles) is not open to such a venture. The PC remains as the choice platform for this, which is an absolute shame.It's always been the choice of platform ever since it came to existence...
I enjoy high-budget presentation, and I feel the Wii removes an incentive to create a high-budget, traditional core title for many third party developersAs you demonstrated in your own "official ownage" thread, many small-budget risks have failed,I didn't list any small budget titles for the Wii in that thread period. :|
what incentive is there to take a $30 million gamble such as Final Fantasy VII, or to create the next Chrono Trigger on the Wii? For someone like yourself that does not feel the high-budget presentation is needed, I've also shown that a wall has been erected essentially barring developers with less than $3 million from creating a game - as the overhead of full retail distribution is also high, it is not cost-effective to make a micro-budget title and attempt to sell it on disc on store shelves. Simply put, a new 2D game from an unknown franchise usually cannot sell at a high-enough price (generally at least $20 ~ $30) to enough gamers to make retail distribution cost-effective. Going to full 3D presentation and retail-distributing these games is risky, as Okami demonstrated.
Umm okay this is why I got pist at the other thread. I just posted how sports and licenses sell much more then any other game genre. Not only that it's obviously cheaper to make a Tony Hawk clone then a full RPG. Yey their are more RPG's slated for release. Why? It's called a dedicated dev. And you contridicted yourself in this. You said that many small devs have found successs in the PC market place, XBLA, and PSN why don't the devs just make games on that?Your statement makes no sense. Finally it costs the SAME amount of money to create a Wii game then to create a PS2 game, a system with many amazing games.
And no there is no barrier at 3 million as state here.
"The Wii may prove to be a windfall, since games cost $2 million to $5 million to create, a fraction of the $20 million to $30 million spent on PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 titles, Taylor said. Also, Wii appears to be expanding the market, rather than stealing sales from rivals, he said."
Developers create games as expensive as they want to not anybody else.
What the Wii has done to the market is created a wall at below $3 million, and above $10 million,You can't be serious, Trauma Center, Elebits, Sonic and the Secret Rings, and No More Heroes are all under 10 million in costs. And the Xbox 360 has created a wall above 10 million and below 1 million. Yes it's still getting good games. Why? Developers don't have a limit of spending they spend how much they want. That statement makes no sense.
which I feel is limiting in both directions. Presentation needs to advance because the better the hardware and development tools on the market, the better the presentation of a low-budget game (for example, the quality of a low-budget 2D title such as Odin Sphere or Okami is much higher than an even more expensive title in the NES era, and free develpment tools to create 2D games of SNES quality are so simple to use, my younger brother has built his own platformer with a few months of hard work).
Wait hold on a second. First you call Okami "low-budget" which is wasn't. Also there's something called a PC which has ALWAYS been more powerful then the consoles. So I assume the PS3 and 360 are damaging to the industry and developers since they hold back multiplats for the PC correct?
At the same time, there needs to be a venue for homebrew and microbudget to be recognized - something Nintendo has been opposed to basically since the NES (they have never opened up their system). So, as I have said, I am opposed to Nintendo's vision with the Wii.Ever heard of Wiiware? And Nintendo has
While we might agree that there's a bad trend in gaming, I think we disagree on how to solve it. I do ask for a respectful response Dencore, and I'd be glad if you had read all of this to this point. And they were't against microbudget titles but piracy since devs didn't license their games from them. :| Dencore
No offense to you or anything but...no just no.
You said there aren't any small developers creating games for the Wii, when there are games like No More Heroes, Project O *renamed Kings something*, and Space Station which are just a few titles.
You claimed that a small developer would choose to make games on the PSN or XBLA or PC. But the games you refer to are all pick up and play games and not full games. Not only that but PC small devs. have been avalible ever since the PC came to existence and relevant ever since the early 90's.
Then you claimed that there was a 3 million to 10 million barrier to the Wii when there is a BIGGER barrier for the PS3 and Xbox 360. Not only that I also just prooved that it costs 2 million to 5 million on average for a Wii game, Plus I listed some games that costs under 10 million to make which prooves that false. Also I prooved that those "small games" have always been availible with PC small development since.....PC's came out. Not only that you also said that they've found success, why would they stop making games on Wii if they didn't for the 360 where the difference is much BIGGER of creating a game for normal development and the small pick-up-and-play game development? That makes no sense. Then you talk about how the Wii is creating a bigger gap between the small and big developer when the 360 and PS3 HIGHLY increase that growth and you hinted that there wasn't another platform for games to have high presentation or just claimed that games need cutting edge tech. for presentation when PC gaming has been alive and well for years. Not only that you claimed that Nintendo doesn't care about homebrew or microbudget titles with something like XBLA or PSN or PC when they are launching something just like it.
WiiWare paves the way for homemade Wii gamesSo pretty much every single thing you said wasn't true or completly contridicted one another.
I don't get it. You claim that the 360/PS3 is hurting small developers with its high development costs, when they have systems similar to the upcoming WiiWare in XBLA and PSN. The 360's way of allowing people to make small games and not have them suffer came out long before WiiWare. Plus you claim the XBLA and PSN games are merely pick up and play games, wouldn't that apply to WiiWare?
You claim the Wii helps developers by making full games for a cheap price, yet I see full games like Warhawk and Tekken 5:DR and Socom on PSN. Are those "Pick up and play" games? You act as if it's impossible to make a low budget game forPS3/360 without it being overshadowed by expensive games on them. XBLA/PSN helps by allowing people to make games for a cheap price. I suppose it would be better for the small developer to have their game selling for $50 than $30, but we know nothing about what price games made via WiiWare will cost, so independent developers can either benefit or be hurt from it.
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