Eurogamer: Skyrim is shallow, boring. Dark Souls is captivating, intriguing

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Skyrim is not easy the default setting is Adpet and if you have the B***s put it up to master and prepare for an a** whooping, Skyrimis is many things but its not easy

musalala

When comparing difficulty, we look at default, not self-imposed difficulty. And unless you deliberately engage a Troll, Giant or Mammoth during the first 10 levels of so, Skyrim isn't hard. The other way is by screwing up your level, whereby you level up by increasing non-combat skills, and the enemies scaled up faster than you are becoming combat proficient.

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

[QUOTE="musalala"][QUOTE="jhcho2"]

When comparing difficulty, we look at default, not self-imposed difficulty. And unless you deliberately engage a Troll, Giant or Mammoth during the first 10 levels of so, Skyrim isn't hard. The other way is by screwing up your level, whereby you level up by increasing non-combat skills, and the enemies scaled up faster than you are becoming combat proficient.

jhcho2

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

There are quite a few, particularly archers to or three arrows and its game over, and in dark souls once you level up and have the right armour you are almost invincible.

Havels armour plus Iron flesh plus two handed dragon bone tooth leveled to plus 5=evey boss dies. I killed the super demon boss fights on my first try( except for scaless dragon boos dragon)

[QUOTE="musalala"][QUOTE="jhcho2"]

When comparing difficulty, we look at default, not self-imposed difficulty. And unless you deliberately engage a Troll, Giant or Mammoth during the first 10 levels of so, Skyrim isn't hard. The other way is by screwing up your level, whereby you level up by increasing non-combat skills, and the enemies scaled up faster than you are becoming combat proficient.

jhcho2

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="musalala"] I"m pretty sure the default in skyrim is Adept, I could be wrong, and thats very challenging.musalala

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

There are quite a few, particularly archers to or three arrows and its game over, and in dark souls once you level up and have the right armour you are almost invincible.

Havels armour plus Iron flesh plus two handed dragon bone tooth leveled to plus 5=evey boss dies. I killed the super demon boss fights on my first try( except for scaless dragon boos dragon)

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="musalala"] I"m pretty sure the default in skyrim is Adept, I could be wrong, and thats very challenging.Firebird-5

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

Lolwut. I was owning them at level 11 on hard difficulty.

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

There are quite a few, particularly archers to or three arrows and its game over, and in dark souls once you level up and have the right armour you are almost invincible.

Havels armour plus Iron flesh plus two handed dragon bone tooth leveled to plus 5=evey boss dies. I killed the super demon boss fights on my first try( except for scaless dragon boos dragon)

sts106mat

aka. not difficult.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

jhcho2

There are quite a few, particularly archers to or three arrows and its game over, and in dark souls once you level up and have the right armour you are almost invincible.

Havels armour plus Iron flesh plus two handed dragon bone tooth leveled to plus 5=evey boss dies. I killed the super demon boss fights on my first try( except for scaless dragon boos dragon)

LOL trust me on this that combination makes you invinsible, particularly if you add that ring that inceases your health, its one of the reasons they nerfed Iron flesh in the update

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"][QUOTE="jhcho2"]

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

Peredith

Lolwut. I was owning them at level 11 on hard difficulty.

Deathlords do not spawn at 11, and if they did there is no way you would kill one.

As I thought, most of the haters just havn't played the game and can't stand the fact that Skyrim has a substantially higher average review score.

Deathlords do not spawn at 11, and if they did there is no way you would kill one.

As I thought, most of the haters just havn't played the game and can't stand the fact that Skyrim has a substantially higher average review score.

Jankarcop

It's exactly because I've played the games that I don't care about the higher review score. It's not like EG's review could magically make me enjoy Skyrim more.

[QUOTE="Peredith"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"] archers, dragons, forsworn. draugr deathlordsJankarcop

Lolwut. I was owning them at level 11 on hard difficulty.

Deathlords do not spawn at 11, and if they did there is no way you would kill one.

As I thought, most of the haters just havn't played the game and can't stand the fact that Skyrim has a substantially higher average review score.

LOL trust me on this that combination makes you invinsible, particularly if you add that ring that inceases your health, its one of the reasons they nerfed Iron flesh in the update

musalala

And how many players found that combination alone? Or the drake sword, which everyone was abusing at low levels? I clearly remember that the DS thread was full of such spoilers - any game can become easy when you have access to information compiled by thousands and thousands of players.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL trust me on this that combination makes you invinsible, particularly if you add that ring that inceases your health, its one of the reasons they nerfed Iron flesh in the update

KiZZo1

And how many players found that combination alone? Or the drake sword, which everyone was abusing at low levels? I clearly remember that the DS thread was full of such spoilers - any game can become easy when you have access to information compiled by thousands and thousands of players.

I found this out on my own actually and appaerntly they are for more easily exploitable things that make dark souls easier. My point was that skyrim is just as challenging as dark souls if you so want it to be

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL trust me on this that combination makes you invinsible, particularly if you add that ring that inceases your health, its one of the reasons they nerfed Iron flesh in the update

musalala

And how many players found that combination alone? Or the drake sword, which everyone was abusing at low levels? I clearly remember that the DS thread was full of such spoilers - any game can become easy when you have access to information compiled by thousands and thousands of players.

I found this out on my own actually and appaerntly they are for more easily exploitable things that make dark souls easier. My point was that skyrim is just as challenging as dark souls if you so want it to be

Any game can be extremely challenging if you play it with boxing gloves on. The point is that Dark Souls is challenging whether or not you want it to be.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

And how many players found that combination alone? Or the drake sword, which everyone was abusing at low levels? I clearly remember that the DS thread was full of such spoilers - any game can become easy when you have access to information compiled by thousands and thousands of players.

KiZZo1

I found this out on my own actually and appaerntly they are for more easily exploitable things that make dark souls easier. My point was that skyrim is just as challenging as dark souls if you so want it to be

Any game can be extremely challenging if you play it with boxing gloves on. The point is that Dark Souls is challenging whether or not you want it to be.

And thats a good thing?

This board has become total garbage.

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

I found this out on my own actually and appaerntly they are for more easily exploitable things that make dark souls easier. My point was that skyrim is just as challenging as dark souls if you so want it to be

musalala

Any game can be extremely challenging if you play it with boxing gloves on. The point is that Dark Souls is challenging whether or not you want it to be.

And thats a good thing?

For some people - yes. Is that so hard to believe? If you have read anything on the design philosophy behind the Souls games, you should know this, but in case you haven't - the increased challenge produces greater satisfaction, once you overcome it.

That of course is only part of the reward. There are difficult games (mostly older ones), which I wouldn't play, because they don't provide the additional incentives to push on, in the form of masterfully crafted enemies and locations.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

Any game can be extremely challenging if you play it with boxing gloves on. The point is that Dark Souls is challenging whether or not you want it to be.

KiZZo1

And thats a good thing?

For some people - yes. Is that so hard to believe? If you have read anything on the design philosophy behind the Souls games, you should know this, but in case you haven't - the increased challenge produces greater satisfaction, once you overcome it.

That of course is only part of the reward. There are difficult games (mostly older ones), which I wouldn't play, because they don't provide the additional incentives to push on, in the form of masterfully crafted enemies and locations.

why not give people an option like in skyrim? why forceit down people throats?

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

And thats a good thing?

musalala

For some people - yes. Is that so hard to believe? If you have read anything on the design philosophy behind the Souls games, you should know this, but in case you haven't - the increased challenge produces greater satisfaction, once you overcome it.

That of course is only part of the reward. There are difficult games (mostly older ones), which I wouldn't play, because they don't provide the additional incentives to push on, in the form of masterfully crafted enemies and locations.

why not give people an option like in skyrim? why forceit down people throats?

I don't know - ask FROM Software. For me the game is fine as it is. I wouldn't mind the addition of a lower difficulty setting as long as it doesn't affect the game.

I think the "dark Souls is better than Skyrim!" internet movement is basically a hipster reaction to a big name game being released and getting praised out the wazoo. One indication is how it's used in an argument. Basically, the discussion goes like this:

Person A: Boy, Skyrim is so much fun! I've already dumped like 80 hours into it and I can't stop playing!

Person B: Oh yeah? Well Dark Souls is better!

Person A: Uh, right. I'm having a lot of fun with Skyrim though.

Person B: Nuh uh! Dark Souls is awesome! You probably don't know much about it because it's so hardcore and it's kind of under the radar.

Person A; Ok. But I was talking about Skyrim. Yesterday I finally got the Master level destruction...

Person B: No! Dark Souls is so awesome because it's hard! Skryim isn't as hard and so it sucks! Like my favorite game!

Person A: You're a hipster and I hate you.

Person B: Nooo you hurt my feelings I'm crying now :( :( :(

Eurogaming wants to make a bold statement to look edgy but just comes off as pretentious douchebags. What's new?

Eurogaming wants to make a bold statement to look edgy but just comes off as pretentious douchebags. What's new?

Wasdie

You sort of just summed up every critic ever.

[QUOTE="musalala"][QUOTE="jhcho2"]

When comparing difficulty, we look at default, not self-imposed difficulty. And unless you deliberately engage a Troll, Giant or Mammoth during the first 10 levels of so, Skyrim isn't hard. The other way is by screwing up your level, whereby you level up by increasing non-combat skills, and the enemies scaled up faster than you are becoming combat proficient.

jhcho2

Can you name me one enemy who can actually kill you 1 on 1 once you're level 20 in Skyrim? I think the answer for most people is NOTHING.

Now, what can possibly kill you when you're level 20 in Dark Souls? Uhm...everything and anything, even a hollow slave.

I've been one hitted by a snow sabre cat at level 26. :shock:

[QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL trust me on this that combination makes you invinsible, particularly if you add that ring that inceases your health, its one of the reasons they nerfed Iron flesh in the update

KiZZo1

And how many players found that combination alone? Or the drake sword, which everyone was abusing at low levels? I clearly remember that the DS thread was full of such spoilers - any game can become easy when you have access to information compiled by thousands and thousands of players.

I actually found they drake sword because of how they designed the game. There was a player hint on the ground that said "Try the tail." They want players to communicate. That is a much a part of the game as the enemies.

I think the "dark Souls is better than Skyrim!" internet movement is basically a hipster reaction to a big name game being released and getting praised out the wazoo. One indication is how it's used in an argument. Basically, the discussion goes like this:

Person A: Boy, Skyrim is so much fun! I've already dumped like 80 hours into it and I can't stop playing!

Person B: Oh yeah? Well Dark Souls is better!

Person A: Uh, right. I'm having a lot of fun with Skyrim though.

Person B: Nuh uh! Dark Souls is awesome! You probably don't know much about it because it's so hardcore and it's kind of under the radar.

Person A; Ok. But I was talking about Skyrim. Yesterday I finally got the Master level destruction...

Person B: No! Dark Souls is so awesome because it's hard! Skryim isn't as hard and so it sucks! Like my favorite game!

Person A: You're a hipster and I hate you.

Person B: Nooo you hurt my feelings I'm crying now :( :( :(

xLittlekillx

It's no secret that Skyrim is much more mainstream than Dark Souls. Pretty much like Mass Effect. These games get the GOTY vote solely out of popularity, not unlike Darth Vader winning a 'Greatest Villain' contest. The thing is, for many who played both Dark Souls and Skyrim, Dark Souls ended up being the more memorable game, but it's unfortunate that it's not getting the recognition it deserves because...1)not many people actually played it and 2)not many people have the patience to brave through hard games these days.

Skyrim actually has a lot to learn from Dark Souls. But Dark Souls does what it's supposed to do so well that it isn't a stretch to say that Dark Souls doesn't really need to learn from Skyrim. Both are great games, but in my opinion, Dark Souls deserves better simply because it went against the industry norm and succeeded.

"It's a stale template, a thought that solidified as I picked up and threw down book after book without reading any just to see if I'd bag a skill point. Such an undercooked attempt at incentivising suggests Bethesda's designers weren't quite sure what to do about all these tomes either. It's not that the books are terribly written - some are, some aren't - but that they're a symptom of Skyrim's biggest narrative flaw. The banal attention to detail in its world building is boring. This is a universe that's constantly being fleshed-out, and one where I skip nearly every conversation."

Honestly, I can relate to this.

Edit: In fact, I can relate to the entire article.

Thread title is pure tabloid by the way.

our hits are droping, quick put together an obvious flamebait article!

Agreed. Skyrim is pretty lame. Bethesda use the "carrot on a stick" method to fool people into thinking they're playing a huge epic game with a huge world to explore, when in reality 80% of the game are fetch quests and locations that offer nothing of interest.

Peredith

^pretty much this. im aboit to finish new game + in dark souls and will prob play through new game ++ before i play skyrim again. yea it has a ton of content but the game is painfully boring

Dark souls is a grindfest and has literally no story. How is this even a contest? Graphics are piss poor, as well.

I know niche games have a huge following on message boards but get real guys. Skyrim is an awesome game

I have played Skyrim and I can tell you its the best RPG I have ever played and my personal game of the generation. Eurogamer is wrong. Dark Souls doesn't hold a candle to this game.

not many people have the patience to brave through hard games these days.jhcho2

demons souls seemed kind of been there done that to me at the beginning. maybe Ill try it again but the first hour or so wasnt that interesting for me.

TerrorRizzing

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]not many people have the patience to brave through hard games these days.RandoIph

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]not many people have the patience to brave through hard games these days.RandoIph

Compared to Skyrim, it's extremely hard. It requires a methodical apporach, awareness and experience.

Edit: I just so happen to be playing these two games right now.

the increased challenge produces greater satisfaction, once you overcome it.KiZZo1

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]not many people have the patience to brave through hard games these days.RandoIph

As good as Skyrim is I feel it shouldn't win any GOTY awards. Seriously guys if if buggy mess games are going to start winning awards that pretty much tells devs that it's ok to have game breaking bugs on released products.

Compared to Skyrim, it's extremely hard. It requires a methodical apporach, awareness and experience.MlauTheDaft

It requires manipulating the AI alone. That's all you need to do. Nothing methodical about getting that bull demon to chase you over to some pillars, having him staring right at you, and watching him helplessly get turned around and dragged back to his starting position by his leash while you run up behind him and stab him in the ass until he dies. (getting the full back stab animation right into his ass was actually kind of funny I must admit) That's not challenging. Skyrim can be as hard or easy as one likes, it has multiple difficulty options, like any reasonably well programmed should. Also, if I'm fighting a boss in Skyrim and I get a call from work for a burglar alarm like I did when fighting Sif in Dark, I can just pause the game.

With Dark I was forced to cut the power off and when I came back and rebooted I was just outside the fight area and I was still low on health and estus while Sif had been given back all her health. All because From is too much of a bunch of dumbasses to realize how simple it would be to program the game to allow pausing offline, but not online. This game is a mess.

For those of you wondering about the story part of Dark Souls here's the Demon's Souls Lore faq, Dark Souls follow the same formula:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/954345-demons-souls/faqs/62697

GS won't let me link...

I expect more than a few people commented without reading the article.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]Compared to Skyrim, it's extremely hard. It requires a methodical apporach, awareness and experience.RandoIph

It requires manipulating the AI alone. That's all you need to do. Nothing methodical about getting that bull demon to chase you over to some pillars, having him staring right at you, and watching him helplessly get turned around and dragged back to his starting position by his leash while you run up behind him and stab him in the ass until he dies. (getting the full back stab animation right into his ass was actually kind of funny I must admit) That's not challenging.

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]Compared to Skyrim, it's extremely hard. It requires a methodical apporach, awareness and experience.RandoIph

It requires manipulating the AI alone. That's all you need to do. Nothing methodical about getting that bull demon to chase you over to some pillars, having him staring right at you, and watching him helplessly get turned around and dragged back to his starting position by his leash while you run up behind him and stab him in the ass until he dies. (getting the full back stab animation right into his ass was actually kind of funny I must admit) That's not challenging. Skyrim can be as hard or easy as one likes, it has multiple difficulty options, like any reasonably well programmed should. Also, if I'm fighting a boss in Skyrim and I get a call from work for a burglar alarm like I did when fighting Sif in Dark, I can just pause the game.

With Dark I was forced to cut the power off and when I came back and rebooted I was just outside the fight area and I was still low on health and estus while Sif had been given back all her health. All because From is too much of a bunch of dumbasses to realize how simple it would be to program the game to allow pausing offline, but not online. This game is a mess.

I'm sorry about your session being disturbed by something as depressing as a robbery, but it's a design choice. The game expects you to dedicate yourself and you're not supposed to abuse glitchy AI ;)

Skyrim's AI is equally abusable but your not in that much danger regardless.

[QUOTE="RandoIph"]

[QUOTE="MlauTheDaft"]Compared to Skyrim, it's extremely hard. It requires a methodical apporach, awareness and experience.mitu123

It requires manipulating the AI alone. That's all you need to do. Nothing methodical about getting that bull demon to chase you over to some pillars, having him staring right at you, and watching him helplessly get turned around and dragged back to his starting position by his leash while you run up behind him and stab him in the ass until he dies. (getting the full back stab animation right into his ass was actually kind of funny I must admit) That's not challenging.

Because we play to win. Its not like Dark Souls is fun or anything so thats all you can really do.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="RandoIph"]

It requires manipulating the AI alone. That's all you need to do. Nothing methodical about getting that bull demon to chase you over to some pillars, having him staring right at you, and watching him helplessly get turned around and dragged back to his starting position by his leash while you run up behind him and stab him in the ass until he dies. (getting the full back stab animation right into his ass was actually kind of funny I must admit) That's not challenging.

argetlam00

Because we play to win. Its not like Dark Souls is fun or anything so thats all you can really do.