Everything TLOU gets right vs Everything Bioshock gets wrong

For any one interested,

Here is an analysis of both Last of Us and BioShock by a well respected and neutral youtuber

Everything Last of Us gets right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzVwbs-lsg

Compared to everything BioShock gets wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc15KgfNJsw

(for some reason, its not letting me embed again)

Where ever BioShock Infinte failed in gameplay and story, Last of Us excelled

I thought the gameplay in BIoshock was a lot more fun than TLOU. Story is a toss up.

Welcome back, texas. You weren't missed.

Such a shame, was interested.

You posted so fast after this thread went up, there's no way you couldve watched both vids. Watch them both.

Anyway, enounters in Bioshock came down to this: waves and waves of enemies rushing in a straight line toward you. That wasnt fun. Bioshock has some of the most braindead and tedious combat ever. Gunplay is lackluster too.

LOL hell, the BIGGEST complaint about Bioshock, even from hardcore Bioshock fans, was that the gameplay sucked ass in Bioshock and didnt mesh well with the story either

Being objective, Last of Us has much better gameplay.

Combat encounters are so dynamic and sandbox like in Last of Us. You can approach enemies from multiple paths. You can stealth run, play cat and mouse with enemies, brawl it out in brutal fashion, shoot provided you have the resources, mixtures of all the above, set traps, throw items to distract and manuver around, hit with items or crafted special items, or throw items to running meele combos...more so...all those options were all viable to coming out on top, and were done in ways that they were so fun too (Naughty Gods are some of the best when it comes to gameplay design too)

BTW brick throw to pipe smash in Last of Us is one of the greatest and most satisfying things ever!

Lets say you got caught in stealth. Shit would hit the fan, and when shit hit the fan, you had to improvise on the fly or go on the run, and there is nothing more intense!

Or just barely managing to get by a heated encounter while on low resources and or on low health = holy shit too.

Getting caught durring stealth wasnt a "game over" like in other stealth games. You could even run away and naturally lose the enemies, re-evaluate, and give it another go, with a new gameplan in mind, once you got your bearings back. Last of Us has such organic and adaptive stealth mechanics

Bottom line is, Last of Us has some of the most intense, brutal, dynamic, engaging, well-thought out combat I have ever played.

Furthermore, the combat was backed by a real time crafting system and item resource management gameplay.

You could chose to craft for offensive purposes to suite a more offensive approach in combat (motlav cocktails etc) or chose to craft for defensive purposes instead going for a more defensive approach (medkits, shivs etc)

And shivs were even used to unlock doors so you had to really question, do I use the shiv for stealth kills or do I use it to unlock doors.

Even choosing when to craft, since it was done in real time, required thought and startegy. Would even lead to intense on the fly moments. Picture being on the run and low on health while looking for a safe place to craft a medkit as the drums are kicking and enemies give chase. So intense!

Not to mention, that taking shots would actually knock you back, so you were always encouraged to stay on your toes and play smart. Even in gunplay.

Last of Us has such deep combat gameplay. Im having trouble thinking of a third person combat game that had as much gameplay depth as the Last of Us had.

Last of Us is not your typical AAA corridor shooter like Gears of War/Bioshock is

Last of Us requires actual thought to play. Combat is flexible, and beautifully designed by Naughty Dog- from the mecahnics to level design/level lay outs/enemy placements....and you have the tools at your disposal to tackle the encounters how ever which way you wanted to.

The gameplay style in Last of Us might not be for everyone; considering its also unique, very brutal, and very intense, but that gameplay style that Naughty Dog was going for was objectively done to expertise. It matched the themes/story perfectly too. The combat gameplay in Last of Us is objectively excellent and played like something revolutionary when taken as a whole. Combat that perfectly blended survival horror with action, that was still challenging, and was backed by item resource managment mechanics etc

Nothing plays like the Last of Us!

What is more amazing, is that that superb gameplay in Last of Us only served to compliment the superb story in Last of Us and vice versa.

The way you had to scavenge for items as a survivor, and how what ever items you crafted served the combat etc

The way combat was so brutal, intense, and a reflection of the story

The character developement that would occur IN GAME.

Example, as the game went on and Joel and Ellie would get closer, Ellie would start actually helping you out in combat (stabbing dudes from behind, throwing bricks at your enemies giving you a slight window of oppurtunity)

The dynamic in-game dialogue would even reflect Joel and Ellie getting closer at the same pace as the story went on

Etc etc

Last of Us is just a god tier game. Naughty Dog with the Last of Us did things that no other developer / game really has done before. The character developement that occured in gameplay, its deep dynamic third person stealth action/item resource managment combat gameplay, the way its superb gameplay and superb story only served to compliment each other and came togther as one.

Last of Us is the greatest game Ive ever played, and ive beem gaming since on the NES

Oh and the story in Last of Us was mature based on its own merits... unlike the pretentious, overly wrought/overly complex for the sake of it story that Bioshock had.

Bioshock's idea of a good story was throwing out as many unnecessary twists as possible just for a shallow "wow" factor. All flash.

The story in Last of Us was objectively great on its own merits, it had the substance, it actually resonated on a deep emotional level, and it was just fundamentally well put together and well structured with amazing characters that were well developed etc

Everything Bioshock failed at trying to go for, Naughty Dog with the Last of Us NAILED ten fold over.

Naughty Dog did it all much better and in a far more choesive manner then the Bioshock developers could ever dream of. Im not even going to mention the failure that was the Tomb Raider reboot. The Tomb Raider reboot still hasnt even surpassed Uncharted 2, while Naughty Dog with the Last of Us has already taken gameplay and story each to the next level. Naughty Dog is the greatest developer of our time.

Ah, it's the eternally butthurt bioshock infinite hater, hating bioshock infinite... -_- get a fucking hobby.

When will people stop jerking off over TLOU? It's getting really old around here.

I'll have to agree.... why do people hate Bioshock infinite sooo much like wth ? one of the best games last year hands down.

I actually preferred Bioshock.

He really mentioned some really good points about TLOU specially when it came to the violence & story.

The Last of Us used very outdated storytelling methods compared to BioShock Infinite, but still manages to deliver better overall experience, with more satysfying plot and much better gameplay.

It's sad really, because TLOU is extremely safe game design-wise, done completely by the numbers. Comparatively BioShock Infinite had a lot more potential, but most of it was completely wasted. It didn't even reach what the first ingame trailer promised, let alone coming close to fully realizing the potential there.

@drrhymetime: I make it a point not to click links from shitty troll accounts. Sorry

Both games were great. Its not like they were colossal disappointments like Mass Effect 3.

Ofcourse The Last Of Us Story exelled. All the best video game stories rely on cutscenes :D.

As for the gameplay, The Infected suck. Zombies are just lazy ways to fill up a game when you're out of Ideas. And the game clearly uses a survival version of a positive feed back loop.

Only PlayStation exclusives can get praised, we get it.

last of us actually engaged me enough to want to complete it. BioShock did not.

I can’t believe this.

Are you bashing Bioshock ?

Cause’ if you do, remind me to rip your head from your dangling corpse after I Feast on your heart.

MUAHAHAH.

Hope I don’t get arrested for that......... -___-

Anyway......

Don’t compare these two.

You are clearly going at taste rather than fact.

Bioshock games are the best shooters IMO.

They are so different and they have this awkward, bizarre and awesome feel to them.

Bioshock Infinite was absolutely insane.

Although The Last Of us was good, I didn’t really get sucked into the game.

Bioshock was just a complete mystery when I started playing every single one.

And that pulls you in.

Dark Souls is also another example.

You start in that game like a clueless dumbass and end up as a battle veteran badass warmonger. Why ?

Because you were curious and you wanted to see what the Dark Souls World really was.

If you liked The Last Of Us story then I’m happy for you.

But comparing it to another story is just wrong.

Gameplay............... Don’t even start.

Bioshock destroys everything.

You got to be kidding me

Last of Us was a very risky endeavor-new IP at the end of the gen plus it was so unconventional.

If you played the Last of Us, it has 1 hit kills, scarce ammo, dynamic sandbox combat that actually requires thought and strategy, its all backed by item resource managment, and to boot it has a deep thought provoking story that focuses on the characters, their journey, and hits emotionally. Not to mention that the story and gameplay flow perfectly into one another to form one whole etc

That is all just wow.

Last of Us bucks nearly every conventional AAA design or term you can think of (Naughty Dog does gameplay design and gets game design better than any AAA developer out there)

Before Last of Us came out, a game like Last of Us in todays big AAA market was unheard of.

Last of Us changed that and is paving the way - thanks to Naughty Dog

The likes of EA or Microsoft would have never green lit a game like Last of Us or they wouldve DUMBED it down to the point it was Gears of War/Halo/BioShock Infinite etc

A thank you goes out to Sony for always letting Naughty Dog do their thing and supporting them.

Seriously, tell me what else out there plays like the Last of Us

If it were so "safe" or "by the numbers" you should be able to tell me easily

There is nothing else out there that plays like the Last of Us.

Even in regards to the story.

Tell me how many post-apocalyptic zombie stories in games have focused on the characters and on their personal journey, like the Last of Us does?

Yes, Naughty Dog with the Last of Us used tropes or cliches, BUT took them into a completely original direction to tell the story they wanted to tell about two unbelievable characters and their beautiful yet duanting emotional journey. It was a fresh new take on it all. Two characters from two different walks of life trying to survive in a brutal world. And through the struggles they only grew closer.....they began to see things from the missing persepective that the other had....it was a beautiful bond...than dat ending too.....wow......

The ending in Last of Us was risky as all hell. Youve hardly ever seen an ending in an AAA game like that.

Naughty Dog sure as hell didnt do a "by the numbers" ending.

Naughty Dog deserves credit for sticking to their vision and going through with that ending.

Also, what about the way the superb gameplay and superb story in Last of Us came together as one, only serving to compliment each other......in a way that no other developer/game has ever come close to achieveing. Thats not "by the numbers"

What about the way character development would also OCCUR IN GAME?

Two big examples:

1. The closer you two became as the story went on the more Ellie would help you out in combat gameplay, throwing bricks, grabing dudes, stabing dudes who would grab you etc.

2. The way IN GAME dynamic dialouge would reflect your bond growing at the same pace of the story etc.

Over all, Ive never seen a game utilise in game character development like the Last of Us does.

When someone claims the Last of Us was "safe" or "by the numbers" it gives off the vibe of someone who clearly never played it

Last of Us is by far one of the riskiest, most original, gameplay heavy focused AAA games Ive ever played. Last of Us is like the most indie AAA game ive ever played. I will tell you that much!

IF ANYTHING Bioshock was a compeltely SAFE BY THE NUMBERS game. The generic lackluster FPS gameplay that involved WAVES AND WAVES of enemies rushing at you like dumb fish in a barrel in STRAIGHT LINES ...the overly wrought story with plot holes and unnecessary twists just for the sake of it etc.....

walking dead did exactly that

Beat me to it. The Walking Dead is entirely character-driven.

Infinite doesn't have any plot holes, and the twist is not there for the sake of it. The entire game builds the story up. It has issues spinning the yarn itself (see: endgame infodump), but there are no plot holes in Infinite.

Tlou was a better game. Much better imo. Bioshock infinite wasn't bad in anyways. Its just that tlou was better. Also, the game play of infinite gets boring after a while.

This is my sentiment too - it's a very well made game but it played its design very safely and didn't really bring anything new to the table. The story telling relied heavily on cutscenes which broke the pacing of certain scenes for me personally. Thee gameplay/control was very reminsicent to RE4 in my opinion and at times it worked (for stealth parts in particular) however for parts where stealth was discouraged (I remember one bit when activating a generator and the infected would notice you - stealth wasn't an option there) it made the controls feel restrictive and against the design of the scene. The inclusion of quicktime events felt unnecessary - adding a false layer of interactivity to otherwise static moments and the dialogue between Ellie and Joel while nice isn't exactly anything new. I feel like it's a very polished game and for the most part very entertaining, but it played it very safe and for me I got bored in certain areas which felt like filler (similar to the complaints people had about HL2's mid-game).

i was gonna say this =)

I'll never know what Last of Us does right, at least not until it's like $20, played the last three Naughty Dog games that were way overpraised for an otherwise decent meh experience.

if you go into with that attitude, you'll most likely finished the game with that same attitude.

Trust me, it has happened to me with some games (and movies) and other people I know that I made them play a game (or watch a movie) that they didnt want to. And be cuz the were fighting to not play the game in the first place, their attitude prevented them from enjoying the game or even seeing the great things the game was doing.

Sorry, in GS Bioshock Infinite > The Flop of Us.

When did it suddenly become cool to hate BioShock? After it became too popular or "mainstream"? Get over yourselves.

Am I the only one getting tired of these Sony/Naughty Dog zealots gushing about how great their games/developer is and how everything and everyone else is inferior to them?

God forbid TWO games be good, oh no. There can be only one....... This isn't Highlander guys.

About the time TLOU released. Go figure.

bioshock infinite has bad story and gameplay? Hmm guess we played different games.

I haven't played TLOU (YET!) so I can't compare the two games. However I loved Bioshock Infinite and only some minor things about it irratated me at worst (No more weapon wheel, minor plot holes/inconsistancies, and not as open as first shown and much more linear however that i probably to due with limited hardware.)

McShea (who flopped the last of us) did his own review for Infinite and gave it a 4

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/bioshock-infinite-a-fan-scorned/1900-6415464/

If Bioshock Infinite had been a PS3 exclusive that was hyped as much as TLOU was it would have been GOTY, GOTG, GOAT, whatever TLOU is considered now.

If TLOU was a multiplat it would be considered "ok" or whatever Bioshock Infinte is considered now.

That's how it works here, those are the rules.

well, everyone for their own I guess, I've never gotten into Bioshock despite lack of trying, however TLOU gave me a totally new experience, a perfect ballance between drama/horror/action adventure. Only thing I was not satisfied with was NPC AI when sneaking past the clickers, they just ran on past them at no penalty, immersion breaker deluxe.

I'm sorry but The Last Of Us's ending was not risky at all, It didn't what what the cost was for saving Ellie, because the game made little to no attempt to connect us with the people who wouldve really needed the infection to end, infact I'd say they were living it up. Also its pointless bragging about it unconventional if it came out the same year as Beyond Two Souls, that was unconventional.

Get use to it, because youre going to keep seeing more of it. Last of Us deserves all the praise and more! Easily one of the greatest games of this gen!

Now every time Last of Us gets the praise it deserves, im going to be even happier knowing that its driving the haters like you insane

another account another wall of butthurt by texas.

What is it with over dramatic posts like this?

You sir sound like a butt hurt Bioshock fanboy

Bioshock has LEGIT major flaws in its gameplay and story.

Pointing them out doesnt make you a hater.

You getting all upset about it, the way you did, makes you sound like an extremist Bioshock fanboy though.

Did you even watch the video in the OP to see it explained in much greater detail.

"Wah wah dont point out flaws to Bioshock because Im a fanboy"

Thats how you sound....youre pathetic.

Or maybe youre one of those delusional trolls who cant stand to see all the success Naughty Dog has had....

Naughty Dog deserves it. Last of Us deserves it. Let that eat away at you.

To answer your qestion, within a week of Bioshock's launch people were already pointing out its flaws and criticising it.

Mean while Last of Us has been brushed over with a fine tooth comb and its still regarded as a master piece and gaming achivement

The more people look at Last of Us, the more people start to appreciate its extraordinary gameplay, extraordinary story, and the way both gameplay and story were able to come together as one so flawlessly.

Truth is the truth, and im not going to sugar coat it.

Everything Bioshock was going for and failed to do, Naughty Dog with the Last of Us did it all much better, succeded, and raised the bar.

If that gets youre butt sore, too damn bad. Go cry else where.

Im starting to see some trends here.

Majority of people who have a PS3 and who actually have played both, say they prefer Last of Us and that Last of Us was a much better game

The 360 fanboys who only played Bioshock are coming in here with their panties in a bunch.

I have also been noticing some posters, even in other threads trying to spin the bullshit narrative that Last of Us is doing nothing special, or how plays it safe. Already been debunked numerous times

@ SelfReflect

I think that video has only gone on to reinforce your already existant delusions about TLOU's quality.

Also the gameplay and story never came togethter perfectly, see they were seperate by this little thing called cutscenes, the story and gameplay hardly even met, only execptions were the Prologue (Sarah) and the Ending (Surgeon).

Also, the relationship between Joel and Ellie far surpasses the relationship of Booker and Elizabeth. Not only story wise but in gameplay too. The thing about the relationship between these two characters is that Ellie is much more useful to you, the player, than Elizabeth ever was in Bioshock. Sure Elizabeth could toss you a box of ammo (lame) but there are very few feelings in gaming that come close to being in a heated encounter, getting grabbed by an enemy, and then Ellie stabbing him in the back freeing you up to do your thing, or throwing a brick at an enemy and giving you the drop on him. Following the brick throw up with a running meele combo is one of the greatest things ever.

Anyway,

LOL too funny. You both are so way off base. Its like two crazies meeting together to say the world is flat.

It is straight up delusional to say that the Last of Us plays it safe when ammo in the game is scarce, when there are one hit kills, when there is no health regen, and when getting shot actually has a consequence. You two didnt play the same game everyone else did.

(Compare that to how in a shallow shooter like Gears of War you can take a ton of bullets while just holding down the trigger and killing everything in sight with your eyes closed)

Try to play Last of Us like a shooter and you will get TORN APART.

Bottom line, Last of Us has some of the most dynamic, brutal, intense combat ive evey played. And thats that something special it brought to the table. Its combat style of dynamic stealth action item resource management gameplay

There has already been numerous examples explaining how truly special the combat in Last of Us is. Go read the posts

NOTHING plays like The Last of Us.

Further more WATCH THE VIDEO in the OP.

No game brings story and gameplay together like Last of Us does. Thats another something special it brought to the table.

And for your information, most of the biggest moments in story happened IN GAMEPLAY. You know Last of Us is a 20 hour game with only 90 minutes worth of cut scenes. You dont know what youre talking about

There were hardly any QTEs too.

Youre sounding more and more like a troll who just watched random parts of a playthrough of it on youtube etc

I played it twice, its 5 hours of walking, 5 hours of Scavenging, 5 hours of combat, don't know wht you was doing in the other 4 hours, I finnish it in 12 hours (with scavenging for ammo and notes, didn't bother with the fire fly pendants even when I found them), and there was practically 2 hours worth of story in there so yeah, gameplay never meets story (excluding those two scenarios I mentioned earlier). Infact the plot comes to a total standstill 2hours at a time in the 1st half of the game

As for the companion helping you, thats pretty weak dude, they shouldve just added Splitscreen, wouldve been 10 times more fun to stealth/survive in codependant co-op.

Bishock had better gameplay, I know that doesn't count for much on system wars. its all about "how much of a movie does this game feel like"

It sounds like you haven't been exposed to many games. :S Ammo scarcity, one hit kills, lack of health regen have been tropes for ages and are mechanics found in many many games. Heck, a lot of those features used to be MORE common (lookin at you regening health) in the 90s with games like System Shock and what not. These mechanics are again present in most horror games (Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, Silent Hill) and other shooters like STALKER and what not.

And that's actually something I got annoyed by in TLOU - it put a heavy emphasis on stealth mechanics but there were many times I found stealth to be ineffective and I was FORCED to play it as a shooter which was easier.

And practically any time the gameplay had a cutscene integrated into it (not a full one - one that appeared in the midst of the action) a QTE was utilsied for the transition of POV - a good idea, but I'd have rathered a greater attempt to keep things interactive. The design choice they made there was smart - but safe and conservative - I think they could have really done something special for the interactive story telling medium rather than just doing what had worked in the past. Just my opinion there though.

Finally, you come off as a massive fanboy who probably isn't going to consider anything I've said - evidenced by your use of caps, accusations of calling me a troll for criticising your favourite game and overly emphatic tone. Don't get me wrong it's a brilliant game but calling it innovative or fresh is wrong as far as I'm concerned.

They're both awful games.

brofists alts everywhere.

I liked the combat of Infinite. It really drove home how incredibly brutal and heartlessly violent Booker was.

He mows down well over two hundred people within the course of maybe a few days and he never once bats an eye. He's so good at killing people and it doesn't even bother him. Don't think it was intentional since almost every shooter has you killing huge numbers of people but with Booker it felt different.

@ -TheSecondSign-

True, it had better gameplay, but worse design.