Face it. Blu-Ray is NEEDED! ***edited with new dev comments***

[QUOTE="OhhSnap50893"][QUOTE="Fruity_Fantasy"]MS and Nintendo have been involved in the gaming biz a lot longer than SOny , so I couldn't care if Sony or some uneducated cow thinks it is needed.Stonin

Atari says hello....oh and Microsoft DOES make PC games, have done for far longer than Sony.

actually, the first MS game released wasn't developed by MS, it was Age of Empires in '97. They HAVE developed games, but not longer than Sony

That sure is a lot of Sony only developers touting the need for Blu-Ray... gee I wonder how that works?

Yet you DID manage to stick in one quote from someone who is actually making a game on something OTHER then the PS3. That person stated they fit Mass Effect on one disk. Clearly blu-ray is NOT needed in this case.

That sure is a lot of Sony only developers touting the need for Blu-Ray... gee I wonder how that works?

Yet you DID manage to stick in one quote from someone who is actually making a game on something OTHER then the PS3. That person stated they fit Mass Effect on one disk. Clearly blu-ray is NOT needed in this case.

Bgrngod

[QUOTE="Stonin"]

[QUOTE="OhhSnap50893"][QUOTE="Fruity_Fantasy"]MS and Nintendo have been involved in the gaming biz a lot longer than SOny , so I couldn't care if Sony or some uneducated cow thinks it is needed.renger6002

Atari says hello....oh and Microsoft DOES make PC games, have done for far longer than Sony.

actually, the first MS game released wasn't developed by MS, it was Age of Empires in '97. They HAVE developed games, but not longer than Sony

uhmm... how bout MS flight simulator 1.0 in 1982?

really now? you might eplaining me why uncharted, heavenly short and some other ps3 exclusives are so goddamn short....? please, having BR is a luxary......it isnt a requirement.....and just for the point of it....cgi movies take alot alot of memory....Dante2710

If Bluray is a luxury, then please tell me what constitutes a need for it? How do we know when a generation needs one particular type of disc? MGS4 takes up almost 50Gb. So technically, MGS4 NEEDS Bluray. But then again, how many games in the market must need Bluray in order for the Bluray format be classified as being really needed? 10? Why 10? 50? Why 50?.

What most of you fail to see is that many games like Gears of War fit in one disc because the developers aren't stupid. Which insane developer will start making a 20 Gb game being fully aware than they only have 9Gb at their disposal? Hence, it would make perfect sense if perhaps Epic made the game just long enough so that it fits in a DVD9. It's all about planning and management. You guys think it's a coincidence? If MS threw a HD-DVD drive as a standard format, Epic could have made their game better, based on what is available.

Claiming that games don't need Blu-ray because every game appears to fit in a DVD9 is the mootest point ever. It's more like developers abandon ambitiously high space consuming alternatives because it's something they don't have. Not something they don't need.

wow what a bad and unstructured post...your just reiterating past comments by devs that have been debunked.

Case in point kojima and his 50 gigs isn't enough...when you use uncompressed every thing and throw every thing in plus the kitchen sink....you tend to need more then 100 gigs..lol imagine if he had access to triple layer? put in every language version on the earth uncompressed? why? cause he can.

Face it blu ray isn't needed this gen, next gen 360 will have it and it will have a 3-4x blu ray drive thus negating all the slow loading of 2x blu ray.

MS and Nintendo have been involved in the gaming biz a lot longer than SOny , so I couldn't care if Sony or some uneducated cow thinks it is needed.Fruity_Fantasy

When were MS involved with the gaming biz before the XBOX? I don't count PC games because they are a different thing to console games.

FYI, Sony started making games in 1991 when they were released under the "Sony/Epic Records" label in Japan and "Sony Imagesoft" in the West. Most of the trash was made in the US and amounted to crap movie licenses but there were some awesome games from Japan such as Hook and the incredible Karura Oh (released as Sky Blazer in the West) which was one the best platformers on the SFC EVER! I am no sony fan, I am just stating a fact.

Also, Bluray WILL be needed within a year or 2. Everyone said that DVD wasn't needed for the PS2 either and within a year or 2 99% of all games were on DVD-5 and then moved onto DVD-9. Nintendo claimed that CD-ROM was not needed when the PC Engine was going great in Japan and Sega released the Mega-CD. Yea, look how THAT ended for them, the huge flop that was the N64 with its crappy carts that no one wanted to make games for.

well considering half of current gen is already over and 360's DVD is doing fine....i dont think bluray is needed...2 DVDs will be enough for this gen....maybe next gen will require Blu ray

wow what a bad and unstructured post...your just reiterating past comments by devs that have been debunked.

Case in point kojima and his 50 gigs isn't enough...when you use uncompressed every thing and throw every thing in plus the kitchen sink....you tend to need more then 100 gigs..lol imagine if he had access to triple layer? put in every language version on the earth uncompressed? why? cause he can.

Face it blu ray isn't needed this gen, next gen 360 will have it and it will have a 3-4x blu ray drive thus negating all the slow loading of 2x blu ray.

WilliamRLBaker

Again, without any strong points to back up the statement? What is your definition of needed? So if having uncompressed audio and video does not justify extra space, what does? You are looking at it from the basic necessity point of view. As long as there is a way to squeeze data into 1 disc, a higher capacity disc isn't needed. If you think that way, then you aren't very well versed with technological advancements. Look around you. What other advantage do HDMI cables have over analog, or Component over S-Video if not about compressibility? Do people say HDMI cable is not needed because we have S-Video? Woohoo! S-Video! HDMI is not needed because we can still compress audio and video using S-Video!

You see how silly it sounds. If Blu-ray can give us everything uncompressed, then it is the way to go. That's how technology works. You probably said what you said because you have a 360, and it doesn't have Blu-ray. If it did, you wouldn't have.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

wow what a bad and unstructured post...your just reiterating past comments by devs that have been debunked.

Case in point kojima and his 50 gigs isn't enough...when you use uncompressed every thing and throw every thing in plus the kitchen sink....you tend to need more then 100 gigs..lol imagine if he had access to triple layer? put in every language version on the earth uncompressed? why? cause he can.

Face it blu ray isn't needed this gen, next gen 360 will have it and it will have a 3-4x blu ray drive thus negating all the slow loading of 2x blu ray.

jhcho2

Again, without any strong points to back up the statement? What is your definition of needed? So if having uncompressed audio and video does not justify extra space, what does? You are looking at it from the basic necessity point of view. As long as there is a way to squeeze data into 1 disc, a higher capacity disc isn't needed. If you think that way, then you aren't very well versed with technological advancements. Look around you. What other advantage do HDMI cables have over analog, or Component over S-Video if not about compressibility? Do people say HDMI cable is not needed because we have S-Video? Woohoo! S-Video! HDMI is not needed because we can still compress audio and video using S-Video!

You see how silly it sounds. If Blu-ray can give us everything uncompressed, then it is the way to go. That's how technology works. You probably said what you said because you have a 360, and it doesn't have Blu-ray. If it did, you wouldn't have.

When we're talking "necessity," we're talking where if the space isn't available, the game simply cannot be made--too much would be lost to make it worthwhile. There comes a point where that will happen (thus when Square jumped from carts to CDs). But we don't see it happening this generation. The consoles only have 512MB in them, tops. That creates about an 18-to-1 space-to-RAM ratio when using DVD9. Using just a 25GB BD gives you about a 50-to-1 ratio. On the PC, this ratio is much smaller, even when you winnow it down to just the RAM used by the game vs. the installed space. To create over 18 times the RAM ratio in pure game code or unoptimizable content...well, let's just say we're not really seeing it really happening this gen. Resistance uses redundancy. So does Uncharted, I hear. MGS4 is using massive amounts of uncompressed audio. And the two multi-disc 360 games are full of videoclips.

well considering half of current gen is already over and 360's DVD is doing fine....i dont think bluray is needed...2 DVDs will be enough for this gen....maybe next gen will require Blu ray

mingo123

are PC games using Blu-ray?

are PC games using Blu-ray?

RoboThreat

[QUOTE="RoboThreat"]

are PC games using Blu-ray?

HuusAsking

It's a nice Feature, one of the main reasons of the Ps3's superiority IMO. It wont be absolutely needed until the last year or two of this gen at the earliest though. Right Now It's a Cool Plus, Console + blu ray Player= Win.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="RoboThreat"]

are PC games using Blu-ray?

UssjTrunks

New MACs, VAIOs and Dell PCs ship with optional Blu-Ray drives. This is the same process that the PC market went through during the transition to DVDs.

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]really now? you might eplaining me why uncharted, heavenly short and some other ps3 exclusives are so goddamn short....? please, having BR is a luxary......it isnt a requirement.....and just for the point of it....cgi movies take alot alot of memory....jhcho2

If Bluray is a luxury, then please tell me what constitutes a need for it? How do we know when a generation needs one particular type of disc? MGS4 takes up almost 50Gb. So technically, MGS4 NEEDS Bluray. But then again, how many games in the market must need Bluray in order for the Bluray format be classified as being really needed? 10? Why 10? 50? Why 50?.

What most of you fail to see is that many games like Gears of War fit in one disc because the developers aren't stupid. Which insane developer will start making a 20 Gb game being fully aware than they only have 9Gb at their disposal? Hence, it would make perfect sense if perhaps Epic made the game just long enough so that it fits in a DVD9. It's all about planning and management. You guys think it's a coincidence? If MS threw a HD-DVD drive as a standard format, Epic could have made their game better, based on what is available.

Claiming that games don't need Blu-ray because every game appears to fit in a DVD9 is the mootest point ever. It's more like developers abandon ambitiously high space consuming alternatives because it's something they don't have. Not something they don't need.

I agree with this guy. The type of hardware is the glass ceiling above the heads of developers. If a dev knows they have only 9GB, they work to fill just that 9GB. If a dev knows they have 50GB they can take up, they will have bigger ambitions knowing that they have the a lot of free space they can fill.

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]really now? you might eplaining me why uncharted, heavenly short and some other ps3 exclusives are so goddamn short....? please, having BR is a luxary......it isnt a requirement.....and just for the point of it....cgi movies take alot alot of memory....donwoogie

If Bluray is a luxury, then please tell me what constitutes a need for it? How do we know when a generation needs one particular type of disc? MGS4 takes up almost 50Gb. So technically, MGS4 NEEDS Bluray. But then again, how many games in the market must need Bluray in order for the Bluray format be classified as being really needed? 10? Why 10? 50? Why 50?.

What most of you fail to see is that many games like Gears of War fit in one disc because the developers aren't stupid. Which insane developer will start making a 20 Gb game being fully aware than they only have 9Gb at their disposal? Hence, it would make perfect sense if perhaps Epic made the game just long enough so that it fits in a DVD9. It's all about planning and management. You guys think it's a coincidence? If MS threw a HD-DVD drive as a standard format, Epic could have made their game better, based on what is available.

Claiming that games don't need Blu-ray because every game appears to fit in a DVD9 is the mootest point ever. It's more like developers abandon ambitiously high space consuming alternatives because it's something they don't have. Not something they don't need.

I agree with this guy. The type of hardware is the glass ceiling above the heads of developers. If a dev knows they have only 9GB, they work to fill just that 9GB. If a dev knows they have 50GB they can take up, they will have bigger ambitions knowing that they have the a lot of free space they can fill.

Pop Quiz!

...
...

What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?

(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)

When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.

[QUOTE="donwoogie"][QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]really now? you might eplaining me why uncharted, heavenly short and some other ps3 exclusives are so goddamn short....? please, having BR is a luxary......it isnt a requirement.....and just for the point of it....cgi movies take alot alot of memory....HuusAsking

If Bluray is a luxury, then please tell me what constitutes a need for it? How do we know when a generation needs one particular type of disc? MGS4 takes up almost 50Gb. So technically, MGS4 NEEDS Bluray. But then again, how many games in the market must need Bluray in order for the Bluray format be classified as being really needed? 10? Why 10? 50? Why 50?.

What most of you fail to see is that many games like Gears of War fit in one disc because the developers aren't stupid. Which insane developer will start making a 20 Gb game being fully aware than they only have 9Gb at their disposal? Hence, it would make perfect sense if perhaps Epic made the game just long enough so that it fits in a DVD9. It's all about planning and management. You guys think it's a coincidence? If MS threw a HD-DVD drive as a standard format, Epic could have made their game better, based on what is available.

Claiming that games don't need Blu-ray because every game appears to fit in a DVD9 is the mootest point ever. It's more like developers abandon ambitiously high space consuming alternatives because it's something they don't have. Not something they don't need.

I agree with this guy. The type of hardware is the glass ceiling above the heads of developers. If a dev knows they have only 9GB, they work to fill just that 9GB. If a dev knows they have 50GB they can take up, they will have bigger ambitions knowing that they have the a lot of free space they can fill.

I disagree. Game devs for Wii games are restricted by the dated hardware it possesses yet they keep making games for it simply because that is a hardware restriction that they have to deal with to make games for that platform. If the Wii was shipped with a hard drive and better architecture, the games would be a better because the devs would have more room for ambition.

I disagree. Game devs for Wii games are restricted by the dated hardware it possesses yet they keep making games for it simply because that is a hardware restriction that they have to deal with to make games for that platform. If the Wii was shipped with a hard drive and better architecture, the games would be a better because the devs would have more room for ambition.

donwoogie

wow what a bad and unstructured post...your just reiterating past comments by devs that have been debunked.

Case in point kojima and his 50 gigs isn't enough...when you use uncompressed every thing and throw every thing in plus the kitchen sink....you tend to need more then 100 gigs..lol imagine if he had access to triple layer? put in every language version on the earth uncompressed? why? cause he can.

Face it blu ray isn't needed this gen, next gen 360 will have it and it will have a 3-4x blu ray drive thus negating all the slow loading of 2x blu ray.

WilliamRLBaker

It was posted almost a year ago...So it may have bot been debunked at the time

[QUOTE="donwoogie"]

I disagree. Game devs for Wii games are restricted by the dated hardware it possesses yet they keep making games for it simply because that is a hardware restriction that they have to deal with to make games for that platform. If the Wii was shipped with a hard drive and better architecture, the games would be a better because the devs would have more room for ambition.

HuusAsking

Okay, but imagine, in some crazy universe, if GTA was still exclusive to the Playstation brand. It is entirely probable that GTA would be much better than it is currently going to be in GTA4 because of larger disc space and guaranteed hard drive.

Pop Quiz!

...
...

What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?

(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)

When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.

Dreams-Visions

Try to get a game with over 10 hour gameplay and with 7.1 PCM sound in under 7 GB??? Why is there a lot of backtracking in DMC 4??? Because it was made for the X360!!

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="donwoogie"]

I disagree. Game devs for Wii games are restricted by the dated hardware it possesses yet they keep making games for it simply because that is a hardware restriction that they have to deal with to make games for that platform. If the Wii was shipped with a hard drive and better architecture, the games would be a better because the devs would have more room for ambition.

donwoogie

Okay, but imagine, in some crazy universe, if GTA was still exclusive to the Playstation brand. It is entirely probable that GTA would be much better than it is currently going to be in GTA4 because of larger disc space and guaranteed hard drive.

I think:

Blu-ray is needed for some games. Not all games need blu-ray yet, next-gen should tell.

[QUOTE="donwoogie"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="donwoogie"]

I disagree. Game devs for Wii games are restricted by the dated hardware it possesses yet they keep making games for it simply because that is a hardware restriction that they have to deal with to make games for that platform. If the Wii was shipped with a hard drive and better architecture, the games would be a better because the devs would have more room for ambition.

HuusAsking

Okay, but imagine, in some crazy universe, if GTA was still exclusive to the Playstation brand. It is entirely probable that GTA would be much better than it is currently going to be in GTA4 because of larger disc space and guaranteed hard drive.

I agree, it is a lot to do with autoring talent, just like how the Insomniac dude said Gears looked a lot better than Resistance because they used better techniques and generally were just very good at what they did, but games which have a lot of development time and good funding and large ambition can always do with having less limits on that creativity. Of course, I agree, this wouldn't apply to every dev team, some have development times to meet or accomplish what they want without needed those extended hardware benefits, but having increased limits provides a better premise for extraordinary games.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Pop Quiz!

...
...

What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?

(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)

When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.

Martin_G_N

Try to get a game with over 10 hour gameplay and with 7.1 PCM sound in under 7 GB??? Why is there a lot of backtracking in DMC 4??? Because it was made for the X360!!

Way to side-step his question. Blu-Ray didn't seem to make Uncharted or Heavenly Sword any longer.

I look at my 7 360 games that all fit on one DVD, I look at the 3 others that are already released that I still plan on buying, all of which fit on one DVD. I look at GTA4, a game about to come out that I want to buy that fits on one DVD... Blu-Ray certainly wasn't needed for these since they came on DVD and are fine. There is only one game that needed more than DVD9, and its got hours of CGI that likely could have been done using the game engine and been just as good.

Even then, if my 360 was $399 with no games included, I still wouldn't own one and likely wouldn't buy one for another year. I ONLY paid $349 because it came bundled with a $60 game that I wanted. The arcade + that game would been $339 so I was willing to spend an extra $10 for HDD, HDMI, and a second game thatmight be decent.

I look at my 7 360 games that all fit on one DVD, I look at the 3 others that are already released that I still plan on buying, all of which fit on one DVD. I look at GTA4, a game about to come out that I want to buy that fits on one DVD... Blu-Ray certainly wasn't needed for these since they came on DVD and are fine. There is only one game that needed more than DVD9, and its got hours of CGI that likely could have been done using the game engine and been just as good.

Even then, if my 360 was $399 with no games included, I still wouldn't own one and likely wouldn't buy one for another year. I ONLY paid $349 because it came bundled with a $60 game that I wanted. The arcade + that game would been $339 so I was willing to spend an extra $10 for HDD, HDMI, and a second game thatmight be decent.

Senor_Kami

Yes, but MS console has a lifespan of about 5 years. That is, for Xbox Live $49.99 a year, which equals to an expense of $249.95 which I would save without having to pay Xbox Live because the PSN is free.

Plus, those games were designed with the size limit and lack of HDD in mind. If the dev team was told they had 50GB to work with and guaranteed hard drive, would they have been more ambitious with the game? Of course, I can't say for certain, but it would be entirely probably to say they would.

Blu ray is needed if you want to produce more CGI cutscenes. As far as gaming goes, so far there hasn't been a single reason to believe that Blu ray is needed. Heck, even with more FMV cutscenes, developers will just make the game into 2 or 3 DVDs that you will need to change twice in your entire play through. So no, for gaming, Blu ray is not a necessity.

Microsoft might release Xbox 720 in 2009. Therefore, DVD9 is just fine for its gen. However, if PS3 is supposed to last 10 years (which I hightly doubt btw), then I can see why Blu-Ray would be needed for a generation lasting that long.

Also, games can get by without Blu-Ray this gen as long as there aren't tons and tons of graphically intensive cutscenes. Even Mass Effect managed to fit on a DVD...however, it is incredibly chuggy at times.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Pop Quiz!

...
...

What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?

(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)

When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.

Martin_G_N

Try to get a game with over 10 hour gameplay and with 7.1 PCM sound in under 7 GB??? Why is there a lot of backtracking in DMC 4??? Because it was made for the X360!!

Are you suggesting the 360 lacks games that last longer than 10 hours?

Are you suggesting LPCM is *necessary*?

Are you avoiding the basic question? What's the %????

Sony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.

Microsoft might release Xbox 720 in 2009. Therefore, DVD9 is just fine for its gen. However, if PS3 is supposed to last 10 years (which I hightly doubt btw), then I can see why Blu-Ray would be needed for a generation lasting that long.

Also, games can get by without Blu-Ray this gen as long as there aren't tons and tons of graphically intensive cutscenes. Even Mass Effect managed to fit on a DVD...however, it is incredibly chuggy at times.

AvIdGaMeR444

Sony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.

xsubtownerx

When DVDs were released, people scoffed. Then, a year down the line, games were 4 CDs big and look who came crawling back!