[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Odrec"] Needed is also a synonym of the word use.Verge_6
No, it's not. Speaking of using dictionaries. :lol: Yes you people should use them I agree. It's less embarrassing for you next time considering my mother tongue is not even english.
[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]Yeah, Bioshock over it's 312 floppy disks was awesome. It would've been a convenience for it to be on just the 16 CDs, but it's not needed. It's still a fun game....IronBass
Very bad example.
The fact that people would have to change disks 311 times would have affected the game's appeal (and its sales).
So, in that case, DVDis needed from a business standpoint.
Two disc swaps every 20 hours or so in FFXIII will hardly affect the game's sales or appeal.
Besides, game development is not that simple. I'm not sure you could make it work game that way. On the other side, FFXIII will be perfectly made in 3 DVDs.
Yeah I know, totally crazy example for a totally crazy argument. Common sense to me suggests a new format is desired when 1 unit of it is no longer enough, this has happened with DVD. You can't just randomly decide how many disk swaps is acceptable. A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept this, but then counter with this crazy want vs need argument, which i find completely irrelevant to gaming, where there is no need...only wants.
[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]Yeah, Bioshock over it's 312 floppy disks was awesome. It would've been a convenience for it to be on just the 16 CDs, but it's not needed. It's still a fun game....Kan0nF0dder
Very bad example.
The fact that people would have to change disks 311 times would have affected the game's appeal (and its sales).
So, in that case, DVDis needed from a business standpoint.
Two disc swaps every 20 hours or so in FFXIII will hardly affect the game's sales or appeal.
Besides, game development is not that simple. I'm not sure you could make it work game that way. On the other side, FFXIII will be perfectly made in 3 DVDs.
Yeah I know, totally crazy example for a totally crazy argument. Common sense to me suggests a new format is desired when 1 unit of it is no longer enough, this has happened with DVD. You can't just randomly decide how many disk swaps is acceptable. A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept this, but then counter with this crazy want vs need argument, which i find completely irrelevant to gaming, where there is no need...only wants.
A single disc swap is too many for whom? You? How can you possibly argue that one disc swap is universally unacceptable among gamers?
[QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="IronBass"] No, it's not. Speaking of using dictionaries. :lol: Yes you people should use them I agree. It's less embarrassing for you next time considering my mother tongue is not even english. Common sense extends beyond all borders, so what's the problem here? You're still completely dodging the original topic.
[QUOTE="Odrec"]You're talking about me using semantics when your intial argument was me using metaphors in, according to you, a wrong way? You should also look into the word semantics while you're at the dictionary.Verge_6
Man, stuff just flies over the ol' noggin', huh? You used an amazingly irrelevant metaphor (which you've still yet to defend), and when I call it out, you argue about my use of the word 'mandatory' not coinciding with the term 'need'. You blatantly deviated from the subject at hand. As for your attempted witty parting comment, semantics is "often used in ordinary language to denote a problem of understanding that comes down to word selection or connotation". This is, revelation of revelations, exactly what your reply centered around. Cheers. :) It was an exaggeration and it is relevant. Floppys capacity was less than 1% of a cd. A cd was like 8% the capacity of a DVD. And DVDs are like 16% the capacity of a BD. The differences are getting smaller but one format eventually replaced the others. It is needed as in useful right now, it will be pretty much required in some years from now.
Now compare that to all the synonyms sites that do not list it. ;) You can semantically use the word need in many ways one of those is similar to the word useful. Common sense applies here to.
The fact that people would have to change disks 311 times would have affected the game's appeal (and its sales).
So, in that case, DVDis needed from a business standpoint.
Two disc swaps every 20 hours or so in FFXIII will hardly affect the game's sales or appeal.
Besides, game development is not that simple. I'm not sure you could make it work game that way. On the other side, FFXIII will be perfectly made in 3 DVDs.
FallenAngel-
Yeah I know, totally crazy example for a totally crazy argument. Common sense to me suggests a new format is desired when 1 unit of it is no longer enough, this has happened with DVD. You can't just randomly decide how many disk swaps is acceptable. A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept this, but then counter with this crazy want vs need argument, which i find completely irrelevant to gaming, where there is no need...only wants.
A single disc swap is too many for whom? You? How can you possibly argue that one disc swap is universally unacceptable among gamers?
A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept thisKan0nF0dder
Considering that disc swapping has not affected a game's sales or quality (ME2 or Forza 3, to bring recent examples), there's nothing that indicates that disc swapping has been or will be an issue this gen. Especially if we consider how few games have it.
The fact that people would have to change disks 311 times would have affected the game's appeal (and its sales).
So, in that case, DVDis needed from a business standpoint.
Two disc swaps every 20 hours or so in FFXIII will hardly affect the game's sales or appeal.
Besides, game development is not that simple. I'm not sure you could make it work game that way. On the other side, FFXIII will be perfectly made in 3 DVDs.
FallenAngel-
Yeah I know, totally crazy example for a totally crazy argument. Common sense to me suggests a new format is desired when 1 unit of it is no longer enough, this has happened with DVD. You can't just randomly decide how many disk swaps is acceptable. A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept this, but then counter with this crazy want vs need argument, which i find completely irrelevant to gaming, where there is no need...only wants.
A single disc swap is too many for whom? You? How can you possibly argue that one disc swap is universally unacceptable among gamers?Especially when some of the best games around were multi-disc. Do I need to bring up FF7 again? And Forza 3, despite having two discs, scored a 9.5.
It is needed as in useful right now, it will be pretty much required in some years from now.Odrec
Needed is not useful, something your beloved dictionaries make clear. And thank you for admitting Casey was right in the second part, I guess that means this was all a complete waste of time, huh?
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Speaking of using dictionaries. :lol: Yes you people should use them I agree. It's less embarrassing for you next time considering my mother tongue is not even english. Common sense extends beyond all borders, so what's the problem here? You're still completely dodging the original topic. I came into the discussion because CaseyWegner said that he finds strange that people have several definitions to the word need and I just proved there are indeed several definitions dependent on context. So I was addressing the issue I came here for.
Yeah I know, totally crazy example for a totally crazy argument. Common sense to me suggests a new format is desired when 1 unit of it is no longer enough, this has happened with DVD. You can't just randomly decide how many disk swaps is acceptable. A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept this, but then counter with this crazy want vs need argument, which i find completely irrelevant to gaming, where there is no need...only wants.
Kan0nF0dder
A single disc swap is too many for whom? You? How can you possibly argue that one disc swap is universally unacceptable among gamers?
:D It's a want, not a need.
Why are you using an argument you already defined as crazy to counter a statement I made when said argument has nothing to do with what I stated? :?
[QUOTE="Odrec"] It is needed as in useful right now, it will be pretty much required in some years from now.Verge_6
Needed is not useful, something your beloved dictionaries make clear. And thank you for admitting Casey was right in the second part, I guess that means this was all a complete waste of time, huh? Need is not mandatory either. Inside a context it is and can be used as useful too. So yes CaseyWegner was wrong. Need can have several definitions.
Yet, cows here still think that Blu-Ray was needed for this gen...It may be needed for next gen, but not this gen. A lot of games have proved that Blu-Ray wasn't needed for this gen like DVD's were needed for last gen. A lot of people weren't exactly ready for Blu-Ray & to this day, a lot of them still don't have HDTV's as of yet.
[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]A single swap is one too many. Most seem to accept thisIronBass
Considering that disc swapping has not affected a game's sales or quality (ME2 or Forza 3, to bring recent examples), there's nothing that indicates that disc swapping has been or will be an issue this gen. Especially if we consider how few games have it.
I'd still play Bioshock over my 312 floppy disks if that was all I could do, not wanting to miss out.
I just proved there are indeed several definitions dependent on context. Odrec
And the context for this thread is blatantly clear, as he was arguing with people who though Blu-Ray was absolutely needed for gaming when it clearly isn't due to the very existence of the DVD version of FFXIII. It doesn't get much more obvious than that, champ.
The ability to see context is also granted to any non-English speaker, so what the trouble? Is the context of the word 'need' for this thread not apparent enough? You didn't know what Casey was arguing, you seemingly just lept in without checking the prior pages. He said, and I quote;
because the game exists. blu ray is not needed for the game to be made.CaseyWagner
You can't hide behind the 'it's context' thing for that, sorry.
I'd still play Bioshock over my 312 floppy disks if that was all I could do, not wanting to miss out.Kan0nF0dder
Eh... good for you. You have not done anything to prove that people have a significant issue with disc swapping. I showed sales and scores to prove the opposite. :)
[QUOTE="Odrec"] I just proved there are indeed several definitions dependent on context. Verge_6
And the context for this thread is blatantly clear, as he was arguing with people who though Blu-Ray was absolutely needed for gaming when it clearly isn't due to the very existence of the DVD version of FFXIII. It doesn't get much more obvious than that, champ. And other people here were using the word in that other context, it's pretty obvious. And we're arguing semantics again which the whole argument was about.
The ability to see context is also granted to any non-English speaker, so what the trouble? Is the context of the word 'need' for this thread not apparent enough? You didn't know what Casey was arguing, you seemingly just lept in without checking the prior pages. He said, and I quote;
because the game exists. blu ray is not needed for the game to be made.CaseyWagner
You can't hide behind the 'it's context' thing for that, sorry.
He also said that it is new for him that the word need can have several definitions for different people. I was arguing THAT. For several people here it is clear what the word need means and is not what CaseyWegner means.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Odrec"] I just proved there are indeed several definitions dependent on context. Odrec
And the context for this thread is blatantly clear, as he was arguing with people who though Blu-Ray was absolutely needed for gaming when it clearly isn't due to the very existence of the DVD version of FFXIII. It doesn't get much more obvious than that, champ. And other people here were using the word in that other context, it's pretty obvious. And we're arguing semantics again which the whole argument was about. All you're doing is trying to pass off your interpretation of the word 'need'a s the end all be all. You've provided a single source that backs up your claim that to be 'needed' is to be merely 'convenient', and, as Ironbass just pointed out, even that is inconsistent.
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] And the context for this thread is blatantly clear, as he was arguing with people who though Blu-Ray was absolutely needed for gaming when it clearly isn't due to the very existence of the DVD version of FFXIII. It doesn't get much more obvious than that, champ. And other people here were using the word in that other context, it's pretty obvious. And we're arguing semantics again which the whole argument was about. All you're doing is trying to pass off your interpretation of the word 'need'a s the end all be all. You've provided a single source that backs up your claim that to be 'needed' is to be merely 'convenient', and, as Ironbass just pointed out, even that is inconsistent. CaseyWegner was passing also his interpretation of the word need by saying that he can't conceive people having other definitions for it which is false.
[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]I'd still play Bioshock over my 312 floppy disks if that was all I could do, not wanting to miss out.IronBass
Eh... good for you. You have not done anything to prove that people have a significant issue with disc swapping. I showed sales and scores to prove the opposite. :)
I guess, no way I can really prove my point. I just took issue with the whole want vs need argument, just seemed totally dumb to me.
[QUOTE="Odrec"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Odrec"] And other people here were using the word in that other context, it's pretty obvious. And we're arguing semantics again which the whole argument was about. All you're doing is trying to pass off your interpretation of the word 'need'a s the end all be all. You've provided a single source that backs up your claim that to be 'needed' is to be merely 'convenient', and, as Ironbass just pointed out, even that is inconsistent. CaseyWegner was passing also his interpretation of the word need by saying that he can't conceive people having other definitions for it which is false. But in the context of this thread (you should be familiar with this usage, amiright?), there is one clear definition of 'need'.
As a synonym of use. You know? like you were using it for mandatory? :roll:Odrec
That's different. Just because "use" is a loose synonym of "need" it does not mean useful = needed. No single synonym site (from the ones I've seen) has put needed and useful together. :?
It's hilarious that we are arguing about this, if the game can be made with as few discs as possible, who cares, it won't affect your enjoyment either.
[QUOTE="Odrec"] As a synonym of use. You know? like you were using it for mandatory? :roll:IronBass
That's different. Just because "use" is a loose synonym of "need" it does not mean useful = needed. No single synonym site (from the ones I've seen) has put needed and useful together. :? The point is that it can be used as it can be used as want also.
FF13 on the 360 will be three discs. In the context of JRPGs (the one genre that consistently has multi-disc games), my personal sentiment is, "*Yawn* Nothing noteworthy here." After all, there is a four-disc JRPGs already this gen and several other three-disc ones. And as for whether or not swapping is a bad thing, it didn't hurt JRPGs that much in the past, and if you do it right, it won't hurt you now. Now, admitted some JRPGs have shoddy disc spanning techniques (Blue Dragon and Star Ocean), but the initial impressions of FF13 (along with past experience) indicates S-E will know what it's doing.
It's hilarious that we are arguing about this, if the game can be made with as few discs as possible, who cares, it won't affect your enjoyment either.
mitu123
As a matter of fact, most of the games that came out for this gen doesn't even go above 6-7 GB's...
The point is that it can be used as it can be used as want also.Odrec
No, You are using it. You showed that "use" is a quite loose synonym of "need". Fine. But that does not mean useful equals needed. Not even your own source says that.
It's hilarious that we are arguing about this, if the game can be made with as few discs as possible, who cares, it won't affect your enjoyment either.
garland51
As a matter of fact, most of the games that came out for this gen doesn't even go above 6-7 GB's...
Ouch, no wonder there are hardly any games that require multiple discs.:lol:
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