FFXIII-2 - Be careful what you wish for

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints. FFXIII followed with serious development issues and a design philosophy with the complaints of FFXII in mind, to create a highly criticized, highly linear experience.

And here we are with FFXIII-2. This time, Square is actively recruiting the ideas of the west to make their upcoming JRPG. FFXIII-2 is a step in the opposite direction. FFXIII-2 seems to have a vague main goal, that the player is slowly aiming for as he or she does as he pleases in the world left by FFXIII. Square is describing a game where players can take on mission as they please, aiming for one of multiple endings.

This is because Square feels that the reason for their lack of acclaim for FFXIII was that it was a story driven title. This time around, Square will aim for a more "character driven" style of gameplay, where the player takes mroe control of the flow. If this doesn't sound familiar, it should. There's already an FF game that met this description perfectly.

Given that this is being marketed to America this time, instead of "pop" there will be "rap." Have your complaints led Square to remake on of their most disappointing titles in a new flavor? Get ready for Aimless Fantasy XIII-2

Square just needs to look at what they did right in FF 1-10 and go from that.

Square just needs to look at what they did right in FF 1-10 and go from that.

LegatoSkyheart

They don't have good writers anymore.

The music I heard when playing the battle had already made me cringed... it was so off fitting... and I'm not sure what to think about XIII-2, but I'll play X-2... I haven't yet. I would though. Hot girls >>> Sarah. I'm not sure what to think about FF XIII-2's open ended "story" I want more games like XII. I LOVED XII... Why do you people have to hate XII? It's better than almost any WRPG game this generation which tries to even begin to offer a sliver of what that game did... yoshi_64

LICENSES FOR ABOUT EVERYTHING!

It just didn't feel like the previous games.

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

Square just needs to look at what they did right in FF 1-10 and go from that.

hakanakumono

They don't have good writers anymore.

The music I heard when playing the battle had already made me cringed... it was so off fitting... and I'm not sure what to think about XIII-2, but I'll play X-2... I haven't yet. I would though. Hot girls >>> Sarah. I'm not sure what to think about FF XIII-2's open ended "story" I want more games like XII. I LOVED XII... Why do you people have to hate XII? It's better than almost any WRPG game this generation which tries to even begin to offer a sliver of what that game did... yoshi_64

I would have liked FFXII if I didn't think it horribly mismanaged what was a great opening for a story. It fizzled out.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

Square just needs to look at what they did right in FF 1-10 and go from that.

Arach666

They don't have good writers anymore.

It'd be nice if Square could keep a Japanese flavor.

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

They don't have good writers anymore.

hakanakumono

It'd be nice if Square could keep a Japanese flavor.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]The music I heard when playing the battle had already made me cringed... it was so off fitting... and I'm not sure what to think about XIII-2, but I'll play X-2... I haven't yet. I would though. Hot girls >>> Sarah. I'm not sure what to think about FF XIII-2's open ended "story" I want more games like XII. I LOVED XII... Why do you people have to hate XII? It's better than almost any WRPG game this generation which tries to even begin to offer a sliver of what that game did... LegatoSkyheart

LICENSES FOR ABOUT EVERYTHING!

It just didn't feel like the previous games.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"] Well then they should hire Chris Avellone. :PArach666

It'd be nice if Square could keep a Japanese flavor.

Yeah. It's probably still being written by the same guy though.

I'm considering not buying this game anymore, regardless.

[QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]The music I heard when playing the battle had already made me cringed... it was so off fitting... and I'm not sure what to think about XIII-2, but I'll play X-2... I haven't yet. I would though. Hot girls >>> Sarah. I'm not sure what to think about FF XIII-2's open ended "story" I want more games like XII. I LOVED XII... Why do you people have to hate XII? It's better than almost any WRPG game this generation which tries to even begin to offer a sliver of what that game did... yoshi_64

LICENSES FOR ABOUT EVERYTHING!

It just didn't feel like the previous games.

It just annoyed me that's all.

I'm used to having set equipment and set classes for my characters. Like Vann I just assumed that he was a warrior and I wanted to give him say a Longsword, Well not only do I have to buy the sword but I also have to buy a License just to have it equiped to him.....

:|

I hardly consider FFXII to be "political" at all.

The music I heard when playing the battle had already made me cringed... it was so off fitting... and I'm not sure what to think about XIII-2, but I'll play X-2... I haven't yet. I would though. Hot girls >>> Sarah. I'm not sure what to think about FF XIII-2's open ended "story" I want more games like XII. I LOVED XII... Why do you people have to hate XII? It's better than almost any WRPG game this generation which tries to even begin to offer a sliver of what that game did...yoshi_64

Amen to that, XII is awesomel.

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It'd be nice if Square could keep a Japanese flavor.

hakanakumono

Yeah. It's probably still being written by the same guy though.

I'm considering not buying this game anymore, regardless.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="LegatoSkyheart"]

LICENSES FOR ABOUT EVERYTHING!

It just didn't feel like the previous games.

LegatoSkyheart

It just annoyed me that's all.

I'm used to having set equipment and set classes for my characters. Like Vann I just assumed that he was a warrior and I wanted to give him say a Longsword, Well not only do I have to buy the sword but I also have to buy a License just to have it equiped to him.....

:|

@Hanakumono: I think it's more aimed at that angle then say the way past FFs are. Warring nations, a man rising for supremacy, a corrupted counsel, and other elements that are sort of reminiscent of something like Star Wars in a sense, which is political, is what I mean. I mean it's not like they're saying "An evil force is rising to destroy the world, and it's all in the hopes of some star destined heroes to save us all!!"

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"] Well,they´re already going with a more open ended gameplay and with dialog choices.

Arach666

Yeah. It's probably still being written by the same guy though.

I'm considering not buying this game anymore, regardless.

I'm not really interested in a Final Fantasy game if there's not a single, driving narrative to pull me through it. I'm not outright opposed to the general idea of it, but it should be a different game. Especially when the side narratives will most likely be far from compelling. If a sequel to Xenogears or Xenosaga were released in this fashion, it'd feel like a kick in the teeth. For similar reasons, I'm opposed to the linearity of RE4.

Music is also important to me. FFXIII had a few cringe worthy vocal tracks, but this has the potential to be much worse.

Edit: Mind you, I do like some of what is going in this game. I just think it should be in a story driven JRPG.

@Hanakumono: I think it's more aimed at that angle then say the way past FFs are. Warring nations, a man rising for supremacy, a corrupted counsel, and other elements that are sort of reminiscent of something like Star Wars in a sense, which is political, is what I mean. I mean it's not like they're saying "An evil force is rising to destroy the world, and it's all in the hopes of some star destined heroes to save us all!!"

yoshi_64

I can understand FFXII's angle, I just think it failed at it miserably.

I don't understand why Square insists on going from one extreme to the other.

FFXIII's problem wasn't really linearity (though they could have been less extreme about it). IMO, the problem was a lack of creativity within the linear framework. The game just felt like you were doing too much of the same thing. Most RPGs are admittedly mostly comprised of combat (with the boss battles being the most dynamic moments of combat), but most atleast try to give the illusion of variety though introducing a non-combat task or a little exploration once in awhile.

If I was developing this new game, FFXIII-2's aim would be to be more creative design-wise within the linear framework, so that it ends up feeling more dynamic, but still tells a focused story. With the current approach, it will probably feel aimless and watered down, kind of like the "open" Gran Pulse sections of FFXIII, you know the parts where it felt like the developers didn't know what the hell to do with all that wide open space and the story got really slow and uneventful.

Square needs to go back to the happy medium of previous FF games.

That's how I feel to a degree. I'd prefer a middle ground.

I am not expecting much from SE anymore. From the little information we know, it sounds like it will be a lot better

Exactly seems SE themselves are lost and they dont know what they are doing with th main FF series recently but I will give them a chance and try FFXIII-2 though I'm completely opposed to the mitliple ending thingy unless it is like how Atlus does it with Persona or how LEVEL-5 did it with DQVIII (which really was really an amazing way).

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Yeah. It's probably still being written by the same guy though.

I'm considering not buying this game anymore, regardless.

hakanakumono

I'm not really interested in a Final Fantasy game if there's not a single, driving narrative to pull me through it. I'm not outright opposed to the general idea of it, but it should be a different game. Especially when the side narratives will most likely be far from compelling. If a sequel to Xenogears or Xenosaga were released in this fashion, it'd feel like a kick in the teeth. For similar reasons, I'm opposed to the linearity of RE4.

Music is also important to me. FFXIII had a few cringe worthy vocal tracks, but this has the potential to be much worse.

Now,if the SE guys actually have the talent to do a game like that while still maintaining a strong,driving narrative and quality side quests like we´ve seen before in many western games throughout the years,it shouldn´t be a problem at all. Having freedom and choices isn´t bad and if the developers are talented enough,they can also pull of a very good narrative.

Though I suppose that,considering your negative stance regarding they´re writers,that may not happen.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"] Because of it having dialog choices and open ended gameplay? Arach666

I'm not really interested in a Final Fantasy game if there's not a single, driving narrative to pull me through it. I'm not outright opposed to the general idea of it, but it should be a different game. Especially when the side narratives will most likely be far from compelling. If a sequel to Xenogears or Xenosaga were released in this fashion, it'd feel like a kick in the teeth. For similar reasons, I'm opposed to the linearity of RE4.

Music is also important to me. FFXIII had a few cringe worthy vocal tracks, but this has the potential to be much worse.

Now,if the SE guys actually have the talent to do a game like that while still maintaining a strong,driving narrative and quality side quests like we´ve seen before in many western games throughout the years,it shouldn´t be a problem at all. Having freedom and choices isn´t bad and if the developers are talented enough,they can also pull of a very good narrative.

Though I suppose that,considering your negative stance regarding they´re writers,that may not happen.

I just think that a JRPG that tries to be a WRPG will excel at nothing in the end.

Mind you, I don't mind the fact that you can have dialogue choices in towns. But at the same time, I can't help but think of why I play JRPGs and Grandia. In Grandia, when you engage in conversation with townsfolk your characters start small conversations with them. These give you the opportunity to get more of a feel of the characters. I prefer this style, rather than prescribing what the characters are myself.

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I'm not really interested in a Final Fantasy game if there's not a single, driving narrative to pull me through it. I'm not outright opposed to the general idea of it, but it should be a different game. Especially when the side narratives will most likely be far from compelling. If a sequel to Xenogears or Xenosaga were released in this fashion, it'd feel like a kick in the teeth. For similar reasons, I'm opposed to the linearity of RE4.

Music is also important to me. FFXIII had a few cringe worthy vocal tracks, but this has the potential to be much worse.

hakanakumono

Now,if the SE guys actually have the talent to do a game like that while still maintaining a strong,driving narrative and quality side quests like we´ve seen before in many western games throughout the years,it shouldn´t be a problem at all. Having freedom and choices isn´t bad and if the developers are talented enough,they can also pull of a very good narrative.

Though I suppose that,considering your negative stance regarding they´re writers,that may not happen.

I just think that a JRPG that tries to be a WRPG will excel at nothing in the end.

Mind you, I don't mind the fact that you can have dialogue choices in towns. But at the same time, I can't help but think of why I play JRPGs and Grandia. In Grandia, when you engage in conversation with townsfolk your characters start small conversations with them. These give you the opportunity to get more of a feel of the characters. I prefer this style, rather than prescribing what the characters are myself.

Final Fantasy needs to go The Witcher, Tactics Ogre, or Jade Empire format, now. They can still be linear however, your choices change the plotline and character relationships. They need BRANCHING plotlines, not necesarily open world.texasgoldrush

Why? :?

They just need better storytellers for FFXV.

If they can put together one very strong story, why does it need to branch out?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"] I think the issue to you here is simply related to the fact that an open ended game with dialog choices isn´t really a usual thing for a JRPG,but that doesn´t mean that because of it it´s going to be bad.

Now,if the SE guys actually have the talent to do a game like that while still maintaining a strong,driving narrative and quality side quests like we´ve seen before in many western games throughout the years,it shouldn´t be a problem at all. Having freedom and choices isn´t bad and if the developers are talented enough,they can also pull of a very good narrative.

Though I suppose that,considering your negative stance regarding they´re writers,that may not happen.

texasgoldrush

I just think that a JRPG that tries to be a WRPG will excel at nothing in the end.

Mind you, I don't mind the fact that you can have dialogue choices in towns. But at the same time, I can't help but think of why I play JRPGs and Grandia. In Grandia, when you engage in conversation with townsfolk your characters start small conversations with them. These give you the opportunity to get more of a feel of the characters. I prefer this style, rather than prescribing what the characters are myself.

Suikoden doesn't try to be a WRPG.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]

I just think that a JRPG that tries to be a WRPG will excel at nothing in the end.

Mind you, I don't mind the fact that you can have dialogue choices in towns. But at the same time, I can't help but think of why I play JRPGs and Grandia. In Grandia, when you engage in conversation with townsfolk your characters start small conversations with them. These give you the opportunity to get more of a feel of the characters. I prefer this style, rather than prescribing what the characters are myself.

GreySeal9

Suikoden doesn't try to be a WRPG.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Final Fantasy needs to go The Witcher, Tactics Ogre, or Jade Empire format, now. They can still be linear however, your choices change the plotline and character relationships. They need BRANCHING plotlines, not necesarily open world.GreySeal9

Why? :?

They just need better storytellers for FFXV.

If they can put together one very strong story, why does it need to branch out?

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

hakanakumono

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

edidili

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

As for FFXIII, I felt that Pulse was the least interesting aspect of the story, whereas the story on Cocoon was the most compelling.

Final Fantasy needs to go The Witcher, Tactics Ogre, or Jade Empire format, now. They can still be linear however, your choices change the plotline and character relationships. They need BRANCHING plotlines, not necesarily open world.texasgoldrush

I dont want every rpg to be like that. Sometimes I like playing a story that I have no choice in. I like taking the ride. You dont need branching paths or moral choices to be a fun/good rpg.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

edidili

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

Actually I think FFXII story had a grear start but as the game progressed the story started becoming boring and not intresting.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Tactics Ogre? The Ogre Battle series in general? Suikoden and Suikoden II had WRPG elements.texasgoldrush

Suikoden doesn't try to be a WRPG.

*sigh*

If you really want to think that Suikoden tried to be a WRPG, I won't stop you.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

Kashiwaba

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

Actually I think FFXII story had a grear start but as the game progressed the story started becoming boring and not intresting.

I feel the very same way. :) FFXII was going somewhere until after the Stillshrine of Miriam, imo.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Suikoden doesn't try to be a WRPG.

GreySeal9

*sigh*

If you really want to think that Suikoden tried to be a WRPG, I won't stop you.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

hakanakumono

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

As for FFXIII, I felt that Pulse was the least interesting aspect of the story, whereas the story on Cocoon was the most compelling.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

edidili

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

Pulse was hands down the worst part of FFXIII. I can't stress that enough. There was all this wide open space, but little of it was as interesting looking as Cocoon (with the exception of some of the beasts) and the story really got stuck in a quagmire in Pulse. It became so uneventful, so unfocused, and there was so much filler. I couldn't wait to leave Pulse.

And it's not like there was actually anything to do in Gran Pulse except fight. I would rather they have kept the environment structure more linear and the story more interesting instead of being put in an environment with token open-endedness and have the story suffer for it.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFXII was one of the most open FF games to date. It's limited story and open feel were met with complaints.

hakanakumono

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

Let's be fair here, FFXII wasn't exactly a typical open world. It had elements of an open world rpg yes but not so much that you would lose track of the story. Is not Oblivion for example. Players forgot what the story was about because it was not interesting. I acutally expected more freedom with all that ship pirate thing my main character kept talking about. I thought the world travel of past FF games would return. You know, the one FFX decided to throw away. I so miss that in a FF game. Wandering around the world in foot and later with a ship, why the hell SE doesn't bring that back.

Really, the story of FFXIII takes a nosedive as soon as they hit the Ark. The only saving grace of the Ark was Cid, and then half of the game is spent on an aimless search on Gran Pulse for something that isn't there, only for things to suddenly to start happening again in Ch 12 and then the game ends.

Maybe this would have been solved if they had given up on the "everyone on Pulse is dead" idea.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

edidili

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

Let's be fair here, FFXII wasn't exactly a typical open world. It had elements of an open world rpg yes but not so much that you would lose track of the story. Is not Oblivion for example. Players forgot what the story was about because it was not interesting. I acutally expected more freedom with all that ship pirate thing my main character kept talking about. I thought the world map of past FF games would return. You know, the one FFX decided to throw away. I so miss that in a FF game. Wandering around the world in foot and later with a ship, why the hell SE doesn't bring that back.

I actually prefer the overworld style of FFXII, because it gives individual locations more detail. :P

I wished for KH3...

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="edidili"]

I'm not sure if the "open world" was the problem for XII. It just didn't have an interesting story to tell and an unappealing main character. I can say the same about XIII. The open feel actually saved XII the same way players felt about Pulse being the best part of FFXIII.

edidili

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

Let's be fair here, FFXII wasn't exactly a typical open world. It had elements of an open world rpg yes but not so much that you would lose track of the story. Is not Oblivion for example. Players forgot what the story was about because it was not interesting. I acutally expected more freedom with all that ship pirate thing my main character kept talking about. I thought the world map of past FF games would return. You know, the one FFX decided to throw away. I so miss that in a FF game. Wandering around the world in foot and later with a ship, why the hell SE doesn't bring that back.

IDK, I think going back the world map would feel like a step backwards.

I think world maps were a kind of makeshift way of making words feel big and connected when they really were just a bunch of fairly small areas. Nowadays they can find more graceful ways of making worlds feel big and connected.

Also, world maps can be quite ugly (though some look good). Just ask FFVII.

[QUOTE="edidili"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

People complained that they "forgot what the story was" and they complained about the map design being too large and sprawling. I even remember complaints about the battles not taking place on a separate screen.

hakanakumono

Let's be fair here, FFXII wasn't exactly a typical open world. It had elements of an open world rpg yes but not so much that you would lose track of the story. Is not Oblivion for example. Players forgot what the story was about because it was not interesting. I acutally expected more freedom with all that ship pirate thing my main character kept talking about. I thought the world map of past FF games would return. You know, the one FFX decided to throw away. I so miss that in a FF game. Wandering around the world in foot and later with a ship, why the hell SE doesn't bring that back.

I actually prefer the overworld style of FFXII, because it gives individual locations more detail. :P

Nah I was so dissapointed with that. I remember these trailers before the game came out with ships, pirates and all that crap. I thought the world travel was finally back. Playing the game hearing again the same crap and how the main character wanted to be a captain with still no ship in the horizon. When you finally get it, it's in the end of the game and it's FFX style which I hated. The world travel has to come back imo.

Really, the story of FFXIII takes a nosedive as soon as they hit the Ark. The only saving grace of the Ark was Cid, and then half of the game is spent on an aimless search on Gran Pulse for something that isn't there, only for things to suddenly to start happening again in Ch 12 and then the game ends.

Maybe this would have been solved if they had given up on the "everyone on Pulse is dead" idea.

hakanakumono

Yeah, I don't know if I was just being stupid, but I found the something they were looking for to be annoyingly vague.

And when things did start happening and the game ended, it did come across as not being enough to make up for the Pulse slog.

The entrance into Eden was quite awesome though. 8)

Why would having a less focused story be a bad thing when it's a sequel to a game with a bad story? While it may not be a straight up positive change it certainly doesn't hurt the game.vashkey

Not everybody thinks FFXIII had a bad story.

I think it had a poorly told story rather than a bad story.

Really, the story of FFXIII takes a nosedive as soon as they hit the Ark. The only saving grace of the Ark was Cid, and then half of the game is spent on an aimless search on Gran Pulse for something that isn't there, only for things to suddenly to start happening again in Ch 12 and then the game ends.

Maybe this would have been solved if they had given up on the "everyone on Pulse is dead" idea.

hakanakumono