Final Fantasy 13 Is the best RPG of all time.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"] Alright cool. Still role playing games.jethrovegas

No, not really. A Role Playing Game is something else entirely.

HELPFUL EXAMPLE

Say there was a game that allowed you to choose your character's skills at the onset. You have 15 points to spend, and three skill options which are Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity.

Your starting skill in each area is 5.

Now, let's say you put all 15 into Strength for you first playthrough. This leaves your skillset looking like this:

Strength = 20

Intelligence = 5

Dexterity = 5

So, you start the game, and after running around for a while you come to a city, the entrance to which is guarded by some bandits.

In theory (and within the context of the game), you have three options:

A- Kill the ****ers.

B- Convince them to let you in

C- Sneak past them

---- ---- ---- ---

Option A is viable for you, seeing as how you are a meatheaded barbarian.

Option B isn't happening. You are very strong, but your Intelligence is 5, making you an idiot.

Option C isn't happening either. Your Dexterity is 5, and sneaking past them is completely out of the question.

So, you kill them all, and, on a subsequent playthrough, you try another option because you have a kind of different character to work with.

---- ---- ---

That is, in a very basic sense, the essence of an RPG, and this type of gameplay (ie, seperation of content across multiple playthroughs), combined with significant player freedom, and meaningful choice and consequence, is what defines a Role Playing Game.

FFXIII, and all other so-called "JRPGs" just don't fit the bill. Japanese Action-Adventure Game (JAAG) is much better.

Well.. I respectfully disagree

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"] Alright cool. Still role playing games.jethrovegas

No, not really. A Role Playing Game is something else entirely.

HELPFUL EXAMPLE

Say there was a game that allowed you to choose your character's skills at the onset. You have 15 points to spend, and three skill options which are Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity.

Your starting skill in each area is 5.

Now, let's say you put all 15 into Strength for you first playthrough. This leaves your skillset looking like this:

Strength = 20

Intelligence = 5

Dexterity = 5

So, you start the game, and after running around for a while you come to a city, the entrance to which is guarded by some bandits.

In theory (and within the context of the game), you have three options:

A- Kill the ****ers.

B- Convince them to let you in

C- Sneak past them

---- ---- ---- ---

Option A is viable for you, seeing as how you are a meatheaded barbarian.

Option B isn't happening. You are very strong, but your Intelligence is 5, making you an idiot.

Option C isn't happening either. Your Dexterity is 5, and sneaking past them is completely out of the question.

So, you kill them all, and, on a subsequent playthrough, you try another option because you have a kind of different character to work with.

---- ---- ---

That is, in a very basic sense, the essence of an RPG, and this type of gameplay (ie, seperation of content across multiple playthroughs), combined with significant player freedom, and meaningful choice and consequence, is what defines a Role Playing Game.

FFXIII, and all other so-called "JRPGs" just don't fit the bill. Japanese Action-Adventure Game (JAAG) is much better.

As long as there's a strong presence of character development, it would be considered an RPG.

I wouldn't say it's the best, but I think it's a fantastic game that gets far too much hate around here.

Goes to show the brevity of your RPG experience. It's probably my RPG of the year (I don't consider Mass Effect an RPG per se) but this just seems a little ludicrous. NAPK1NS

Not the greatest RPG of all-time. Really good game that I enjoy immensely, but not the best. And the pacing of the first half of the game is one of the biggest qualms I have with it. Not a fan of the ever-changing party alignments that you have no control over.

You play the role of whatever main character is there. It's a role playing game. I dunno why everyone wants oblivion style games to be the only rpg's. also by your own definition, isn't Mass Effect just a shooter then?

As long as there's a strong presence of character development, it would be considered an RPG.

xX-Incubus-Xx

That is incredibly flawed. I mean are you seriously suggesting that when you play any Mario Bros game, you role play as Mario? Or that you're role playing as Kratos, or as Dante, or as Master Chief, each in their respective games?

No. No you are not. You're confusing controlling a character with role playing. Controlling is just as it suggests, taking control of an avatar, to direct its actions.

To constitute role playing entails that the role is defined by the player. You, through your actions (by that I mean actions outside of combat, like if you help a passerby, or rob a store, or go on a fetch quest with the intent to aid, etc...) and more importantly, your interactions with the people of the world around you, are defining the personality, attitude, and traits of the character.

This doesn't occur in GoW. Kratos' attitude and personality is pre-determined by the developers. You don't get to make him chivalrous or romantic or any other trait you see fit. He's a blood thirsty rage-a-holic, not because you chose that path for him, but because the devs did. When you're role playing, the character's development is directed by the qualities you imbed in him/her, either with your own personality traits, or those you wish to explore but normally can't in real life but still an extension of yourself.

Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2 say hello.

And then PC: T holds FF13 down while BG2 kicks it in the stomach.

It's not even close to the best, sorry.

You forgot to subtract the 5 from the 13 at the end of Final Fantasy.

Talk about the honeymoon period not being anywhere close to over... :?

I don't think FFXIII falls in the "RPG" genre anymore.

EDIT: Not to mention I've heard a lot that contradicts all the "positives" the TC mentions, especially when it comes to pacing.

[QUOTE="xX-Incubus-Xx"]

You play the role of whatever main character is there. It's a role playing game. I dunno why everyone wants oblivion style games to be the only rpg's. also by your own definition, isn't Mass Effect just a shooter then?

As long as there's a strong presence of character development, it would be considered an RPG.

AdobeArtist

That is incredibly flawed. I mean are you seriously suggesting that when you play any Mario Bros game, you role play as Mario? Or that you're role playing as Kratos, or as Dante, or as Master Chief, each in their respective games?

No. No you are not. You're confusing controlling a character with role playing. Controlling is just as it suggests, taking control of an avatar, to direct its actions.

To constitute role playing entails that the role is defined by the player. You, through your actions (by that I mean actions outside of combat, like if you help a passerby, or rob a store, or go on a fetch quest with the intent to aid, etc...) and more importantly, your interactions with the people of the world around you, are defining the personality, attitude, and traits of the character.

This doesn't occur in GoW. Kratos' attitude and personality is pre-determined by the developers. You don't get to make him chivalrous or romantic or any other trait you see fit. He's a blood thirsty rage-a-holic, not because you chose that path for him, but because the devs did. When you're role playing, the character's development is directed by the qualities you imbed in him/her, either with your own personality traits, or those you wish to explore but normally can't in real life but still an extension of yourself.

Though I agree that the explanation shown is more a case of controlling a character, playing a role doesn't necessarily designate that you can change the character itself. Developing the character's build-up is just as much role-playing as choosing which way to go. In FFXIII, you have a wealth of options in a number of ways that you can choose to suit to your tastes:

1. You can choose your progression in the Crystarium Grid, even more so later on.
2. You can choose which paradigms you use, which combinations and which characters to use (the last one is a bit further into the game)
3. You can upgrade, buy, sell, dismantle and transform weapons and accessories as you see fit with certain items

All of the above is what clearly seems to me as a role-playing game. Or, if you want to be formal, a JRPG. For me, JRPGs are more RPGs than WRPGs (my opinion) so it really only depends on how you define RPG. Personally, I like a predeveloped character that I can still develop far more than a blank slate. It gives more depth to the story, IMO.

how can this be the best RPG when it isnt even the best final fantasy?

Talk about the honeymoon period not being anywhere close to over... :?

I don't think FFXIII falls in the "RPG" genre anymore.

EDIT: Not to mention I've heard a lot that contradicts all the "positives" the TC mentions, especially when it comes to pacing.

foxhound_fox

I've never played something so well paced Animal-Mother

I'm disregarding everything else in your post because your first 7 words tell me you don't know what you're talking about. FFXIII is anything BUT well paced. It has one of the worst pacings I've ever seen in a game. After over 20 hours of gameplay they're STILL giving you tutorials because they have more game play mechanics to add. The first 2 hours of fights are VALUELESS and give you nothing.

Not to mention in the beginning of the game the story pacing is HORRIBLE. It drops you into the middle of this world and doesn't explain anything; to the point that you have no idea what's going on. 8 hours later, not much changed. It's not until Chapter 7 that the story even barely starts to turn from awful.

There are many things FFXIII does good. Graphics, Music, Battle System. But Pacing? No one could believe that FFXIII's Pacing was good; and to say that it's the best paced game you've ever played? I can only assume you have only ever played FFXIII then. Because ANY game would beat it's pacing.

I would call this game a action strategy game since it striped almost all of it s rpg elements.

Rza_rectah

[QUOTE="Rza_rectah"]I would call this game a action strategy game since it striped almost all of it s rpg elements.

foxhound_fox

I'm only 8 hours in, but oh yeaaaah, it's devilishly fun.

To even name a RPG this generation to be a best RPG of all time is quite laughable. There are so many in the past that do so much more. Not to say such titles like Mass Effect 2 arent great, but really? But hey thats my opinion.ArisShadows

[QUOTE="Rza_rectah"]I would call this game a action strategy game since it striped almost all of it s rpg elements.

foxhound_fox

I honor everyone's opinion here, but Destructoid is basically a joke. I'd rather use the Edge review if you want to note someone that didn't like the game and reviewed it.

well said but I think its the japanese take on the genre but even so this game strays the line of action (insert) than a RPG sort like how fable isnt a RPG anymore.Rza_rectah

[QUOTE="ArisShadows"]To even name a RPG this generation to be a best RPG of all time is quite laughable. There are so many in the past that do so much more. Not to say such titles like Mass Effect 2 arent great, but really? But hey thats my opinion.Hahadouken

I honor everyone's opinion here, but Destructoid is basically a joke. I'd rather use the Edge review if you want to note someone that didn't like the game and reviewed it.calvinsora

Umm no, not even close.

Cliche characters and a less-than satisfying ending to an already fairly mundane plot doesn't do it for me in an RPG.

Of course it is your opinion, but it is a fairly questionable one.

and as was mentioned before, it's hard to justify "of all time" when other RPG's have come out other generations that were lightyears ahead of the competition at the time. BG1 and 2 being examples. so when you compare FFXIII you are comparing to this gens RPG's, DA:O, ME 2, and it really doesn't hold its own weight against them.

Did everyone really think I was serious?

[QUOTE="calvinsora"]I honor everyone's opinion here, but Destructoid is basically a joke. I'd rather use the Edge review if you want to note someone that didn't like the game and reviewed it.foxhound_fox

It's not based on their score of FFXIII alone. Look at the games they've given 10s to, and other reviews there, and you'll soon see they aren't absolutely the most serious reviewers out there.

And I'll still bequestioning their credibility, not the credibility of other reviewers. Having played the game for a long time now, the only substantial flaws I've run into is:

1. The pacing is surprisingly bad. I liked the beginning, but not nearly as much as the latter two-thirds of the game.

2. I feel the battle system is often too rigid in comparison to the previous titles in the series.

And the positives (great story (for me), amazing graphics, otherwise fantastic battle system, great enemy and character design, great music, good voice-acting (with one exception)) far outweigh the problems, IMO. Believe it or not, FFXIII is actually quite popular among fans, with an 8.9 average user score and a critic score of 8.6. The haters are just usually the loudest.

But if Destructoid really think it's a four game, then that's OK. Their opinion. However, the problems they might have with the game are by far not something everone will find to be bad in any way. FFXIII is a lot of things, but a 4? That usually implies a completely broken game.

Did everyone really think I was serious?

Animal-Mother

:|

So my defence of your opinion...was pointless? Why, I never...

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"]

Did everyone really think I was serious?

calvinsora

:|

So my defence of your opinion...was pointless? Why, I never...

I've been trying to play Dragon Age when I've had the time. That game is pretty sick.

You know what's crazy. I just realized where the picture in the OP takes place Hardcore *Spoiler*Ace6301

Did everyone really think I was serious?

Animal-Mother

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"]

Did everyone really think I was serious?

aaronmullan

[QUOTE="aaronmullan"][QUOTE="Animal-Mother"]

Did everyone really think I was serious?

Hahadouken

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="aaronmullan"] We're too devious :PAnimal-Mother

Indeed. I pity the fool who thinks FFXIII is the best RPG ever made, because he has clearly missed out on some good RPGs.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="Hahadouken"] I was surprised that AM was saying this, but the OP seemed very sincere. I am sure there are reasonable people who really do feel it was the best ever. /shrugDarkLink77

Indeed. I pity the fool who thinks FFXIII is the best RPG ever made, because he has clearly missed out on some good RPGs.

FFXIII isn't even on my top 20... Xenogears taking #1.MethodManFTW

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"] Ok time to seriously debate! As I said, it's a damn good game. I really do enjoy it A LOT. But claiming it's the BEST of ALL TIME. With so much more diverse and better things. It's hard to take down.Animal-Mother

Indeed. I pity the fool who thinks FFXIII is the best RPG ever made, because he has clearly missed out on some good RPGs.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Indeed. I pity the fool who thinks FFXIII is the best RPG ever made, because he has clearly missed out on some good RPGs.

DarkLink77

I have to play it to judge. I will be giving up the Wii for some time so I will get a chance to mow through some PS3 games.