Final Fantasy XIII > VII

[QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"]So repetitively pressing A on the "auto attack" button qualifies as good ? Interesting...mmmwksil

If you bothered to actually play the game, you'd know Auto-Battle is the least efficient way to fight. :roll:

[QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

XIII sure did. No other game in the series has combat this good.

BrunoBRS

Fine but you think its enough to carry a 40 hour RPG without any side distractions? I don't.

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

[QUOTE="D3dr0_0"]

Enchanted Arms >>>>>Final Fantasy II >>>>>>>> Super Man 64 = E.T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Final Fantasy XIII.

D3dr0_0

Bob >>>>>>> Frank >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrono Cross.

Who the **** is Steve and why don't I know him?

He's Johns neighbor. Let me go get him..

Its not that good. Its literally just switch combat type, auto battle, heal. Its typical FF glossed up with enemies with way too much HP.

ActicEdge

It's good enough to keep your eyes on the screen at all times. Look away for but a moment, and **** could hit the fan. :o

[QUOTE="D3dr0_0"]

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

Bob >>>>>>> Frank >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrono Cross.

Johnny_Rock

Who the **** is Steve and why don't I know him?

He's Johns neighbor. Let me go get him..

Oh and is "you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrono Cross" a complament? I actually like that game a lot.

I finished the game on Xbox & PS3... You hardly need to use anything other than auto battle for anything other than boss fights.xXShortroundXx

So Square gives you the option to do away with mundane fights and they get bashed for it?

Man, I wish I had auto-battle in VII, where I mashed Attack to win every fight, bosses included. :roll:

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Most RPGs don't have combat to carry the entire game. FF13 was no "The World Ends With You" in terms of combat here. No FF game has good enough combat to carry the entire game.

ActicEdge

XIII sure did. No other game in the series has combat this good.

Its not that good. Its literally just switch combat type, auto battle, heal. Its typical FF glossed up with enemies with way too much HP.

Don't forget the behemoths. So many behemoths.

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

Because it becomes mundane after a while. FFXIII killed all illusions of immersion and gave you only the story and battle system. Even though many Final Fantasies are still linear they have things spread throught the game to immerse the player into the world. I cared naught for Cocoon or Pulse. There was no reason to, no reason for me to feel emotionally invested in the characters and the story. The little quirks of walking around towns and visiting shops, talking to NPC's and going on little sidequests are a critical part in enjoying an RPG. And if you don't want to do that stuff, you don't have to. FFXIII gave no such choice. I feel like those who favor FFXIII enjoy methods and familiarity (something I already know from your previous posts).

mmmwksil

The lack of choice was a design necessity given the story. How could you indulge in shopping and the like? The characters were wanted fugitives. :|

I agree there is a level of charm with towns and what not, but minigames aren't a requirement. XIII's combat was strong enough to carry the entire game.

The characters were a bit on the bland side, so I cannot fault you for lacking any emotional investment. Save for Hope. He owned that game.

You're right it's a design choice and no minigames aren't neccessary. I always felt like the linear nature of FFXIII's story coincided well with its "corridors" but the thing is FFXIII seems to appeal to certain types of gamers and the Final Fantasy series has established a varied and unconventional fanbase. There is no pleasing all in any of the single games. I love sandbox games and WRPGs which is probably why 12 is my favorite in the series. I liked 13, I enjoyed it for what it was and I've never criticized it for what it is not but people annotate the Final Fantasy name with different desires. It's just how it is.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Its not that good. Its literally just switch combat type, auto battle, heal. Its typical FF glossed up with enemies with way too much HP.

mmmwksil

It's good enough to keep your eyes on the screen at all times. Look away for but a moment, and **** could hit the fan. :o

Again, agree, its better than most FF games, its not good enough to carry a 40 hour RPG though. That said, FF4DS didn't exactly let you not pay attention either. Nor did FF3DS (no atb but you can't not pay attention either)

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

[QUOTE="D3dr0_0"]

Who the **** is Steve and why don't I know him?

D3dr0_0

He's Johns neighbor. Let me go get him..

Oh and is "you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrono Cross" a complament? I actually like that game a lot.

I try not to insult. :)

You're right it's a design choice and no minigames aren't neccessary. I always felt like the linear nature of FFXIII's story coincided well with its "corridors" but the thing is FFXIII seems to appeal to certain types of gamers and the Final Fantasy series has established a varied and unconventional fanbase. There is no pleasing all in any of the single games. I love sandbox games and WRPGs which is probably why 12 is my favorite in the series. I liked 13, I enjoyed it for what it was and I've never criticized it for what it is not but people annotate the Final Fantasy name with different desires. It's just how it is.

commonfate

Commonfate has broken the thread. :cry:

Only took ~115 posts to do so.

Never played 10-2. The only RPG I have ever played where I wanted to fight and do nothing else was The World Ends With You.

ActicEdge

Lol at people thinking Lost Odyssey is a good game.

Again, agree, its better than most FF games, its not good enough to carry a 40 hour RPG though. That said, FF4DS didn't exactly let you not pay attention either. Nor did FF3DS (no atb but you can't not pay attention either)

ActicEdge

Yo, dat FFIV is a *****. So freakin' hard.

But I still think XIII's combat is the best in the series. :o

It's a bit on the simplistic side, but it's the fast-paced RPG Square's been reaching for since the introduction of the ATB.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"] So repetitively pressing A on the "auto attack" button qualifies as good ? Interesting...ActicEdge

Fine but you think its enough to carry a 40 hour RPG without any side distractions? I don't.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Never played 10-2. The only RPG I have ever played where I wanted to fight and do nothing else was The World Ends With You.

Luxen90

Grandia 3 (only one I've played) has a great combat system. I didn't much enjoy either Valkyrie game.

TWEWY and X-2 are also amazing. X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

I agree to a degree, but I do think that VII can claim better pacing and perhaps "framing." By "framing," I mean that the nature in which the world is presented is a bit more dynamic. That is not to say it's not terribly linear, because it is. But FFXIII has a bit of a JRPG-designed-as-sidescroller feel to it. Moreover, the story in FFVII is better regardless of holes (FFXIII makes less sense altogether). I also think that stories that do not flat out explain the story, but hint at elements are more interesting than those that do. Both FFVII and FFXIII attempt to do this, but I think FFVII is a bit more successful. I think the "fill in holes" comment is definitely true for FFVI and Kefka though (look up his FF wiki page ...)

However, overall, I agree that the complaints surrounding FFXIII are more silly than anything else, fail to address the game for what it truly is, and are generally hyperbole.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Never played 10-2. The only RPG I have ever played where I wanted to fight and do nothing else was The World Ends With You.

Luxen90

No mention of the Tales series :/

FF IX >>> FF VII

Can we go home now?

X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

mmmwksil

[QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"]I finished the game on Xbox & PS3... You hardly need to use anything other than auto battle for anything other than boss fights.mmmwksil

So Square gives you the option to do away with mundane fights and they get bashed for it?

Man, I wish I had auto-battle in VII, where I mashed Attack to win every fight, bosses included. :roll:

FF IX >>> FF VII

Can we go home now?

Johnny_Rock

Too easy

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

BrunoBRS

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]Ahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry mmm, I agree with you on so much but this borders on laughable. Final Fantasy VII is one of the greatest RPGs of all time. Final Fantasy XIII is a steaming pile of dodo turd that should never have been inflicted upon all of us in the first place. It's not like it matters anyway. Both are overrated, and none is the best in the series. Final Fantasy VI>Final Fantasy IX>Final Fantasy IV>Final Fantasy XII>all the others.charizard1605

VII is an overrated pile of trash that shot to stardom on the backs of anime nerds.

Also, IX > VI. VI was also another steaming pile of fail.

I agree to a degree, but I do think that VII can claim better pacing and perhaps "framing." By "framing," I mean that the nature in which the world is presented is a bit more dynamic. That is not to say it's not terribly linear, because it is. But FFXIII has a bit of a JRPG-designed-as-sidescroller feel to it. Moreover, the story in FFVII is better regardless of holes (FFXIII makes less sense altogether). I also think that stories that do not flat out explain the story, but hint at elements are more interesting than those that do. Both FFVII and FFXIII attempt to do this, but I think FFVII is a bit more successful. I think the "fill in holes" comment is definitely true for FFVI and Kefka though (look up his FF wiki page ...)

However, overall, I agree that the complaints surrounding FFXIII are more silly than anything else, fail to address the game for what it truly is, and are generally hyperbole.

hakanakumono

I just never saw how VII's story was good in the first place. It serves its role sufficiently well, but a good story it is not. I honestly thought, despite the murky veil XIII had, the story made a bit more sense in the end.

Granted, both have glaring plot holes and ridiculous issues.

And agreed on the VI comment. The praise for the "story" of that game is more laughable than that of VII.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"]I finished the game on Xbox & PS3... You hardly need to use anything other than auto battle for anything other than boss fights.xXShortroundXx

So Square gives you the option to do away with mundane fights and they get bashed for it?

Man, I wish I had auto-battle in VII, where I mashed Attack to win every fight, bosses included. :roll:

Materia didn't stop me from pressing attack attack attack attack attack. Why use up MP, anyways? At least when I played FFXIII it gave a purpose to magic.

FF IX >>> FF VII

Can we go home now?

Johnny_Rock

I agreed to that in the first page of the thread, yo. :P

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I agree to a degree, but I do think that VII can claim better pacing and perhaps "framing." By "framing," I mean that the nature in which the world is presented is a bit more dynamic. That is not to say it's not terribly linear, because it is. But FFXIII has a bit of a JRPG-designed-as-sidescroller feel to it. Moreover, the story in FFVII is better regardless of holes (FFXIII makes less sense altogether). I also think that stories that do not flat out explain the story, but hint at elements are more interesting than those that do. Both FFVII and FFXIII attempt to do this, but I think FFVII is a bit more successful. I think the "fill in holes" comment is definitely true for FFVI and Kefka though (look up his FF wiki page ...)

However, overall, I agree that the complaints surrounding FFXIII are more silly than anything else, fail to address the game for what it truly is, and are generally hyperbole.

mmmwksil

I just never saw how VII's story was good in the first place. It serves its role sufficiently well, but a good story it is not. I honestly thought, despite the murky veil XIII had, the story made a bit more sense in the end.

Granted, both have glaring plot holes and ridiculous issues.

And agreed on the VI comment. The praise for the "story" of that game is more laughable than that of VII.

Part of the problem with VII might be the tranlsation, but I can't confirm it yet. FFXIII's translation was bad though.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Never played 10-2. The only RPG I have ever played where I wanted to fight and do nothing else was The World Ends With You.

Luxen90

Never played the valkryrie or grandia games, will look into. I mostly enjoy the world and stories of RPGs, great combat is a bonus for me (I normally enjoy RPG combat though)

I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.princeofshapeir

Transgender??? lol wut?

You do realize most people in society today identify as androgynous?

Japanese games aren't even mainstream outside of handhelds. Unless you're financially invested into gaming then it's just a waste of time to care.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

BrunoBRS

Nope. Think about the combat system, and the combat system ALONE.

It is the pinnacle of the Job Changing system introduced in FFV. Only with girls and pretty-princess-dress-me-up.

No mention of the Tales series :/

commonfate

Yes. Auto Battle is stupid. Why not just watch a movie. I mean all you do is press A over and over. At least in VII there is variety in combat thanks to the materia system.xXShortroundXx

:lol: x99 at "Materia".

Play without Materia. It's not hard. Like, at ALL. :|

The only one you really need is Cure.

The Trails (Legend of Heroes) series has really good combat. Similar to Grandia, but more strategic.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Again, agree, its better than most FF games, its not good enough to carry a 40 hour RPG though. That said, FF4DS didn't exactly let you not pay attention either. Nor did FF3DS (no atb but you can't not pay attention either)

mmmwksil

Yo, dat FFIV is a *****. So freakin' hard.

But I still think XIII's combat is the best in the series. :o

It's a bit on the simplistic side, but it's the fast-paced RPG Square's been reaching for since the introduction of the ATB.

I love it, sure its hard but its engauging because the ATB moves quickly and forces you to be on your toes. Its not perfect but its my favourite FF from a pure combat state maybe only equaled by 5.

Part of the problem with VII might be the tranlsation, but I can't confirm it yet. FFXIII's translation was bad though.

hakanakumono

Yeah I know, we've discussed this in the past. :P

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.commonfate

Transgender??? lol wut?

You do realize most people in society today identify as androgynous?

Japanese games aren't even mainstream outside of handhelds. Unless you're financially invested into gaming then it's just a waste of time to care.

All of the final fantasy characters have zero depth, no motives, and absolutely no compelling or redeeming factors. They're all either antisocial, apathetic emo kids or annoyingly bubbly and cute. That Square has continued to create gender-ambiguous leads in every installment is testament to how crap the series is from a story standpoint.

I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.princeofshapeir

Lol no. Got play Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger and tell me that japanese games are all about transgender protagonists. Go play Monster Hunter, Demon/Dark Souls and Zack and Wiki and try and tell me the Japanese can't make rewarding, challenging games. Sorry but no.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

mmmwksil

Nope. Think about the combat system, and the combat system ALONE.

It is the pinnacle of the Job Changing system introduced in FFV. Only with girls and pretty-princess-dress-me-up.

All of the final fantasy characters have zero depth, no motives, and absolutely no compelling or redeeming factors. They're all either antisocial, apathetic emo kids or annoyingly bubbly and cute. That Square has continued to create gender-ambiguous leads in every installment is testament to how crap the series is from a story standpoint.

princeofshapeir

:lol:

Try harder, bro.

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

FF IX >>> FF VII

Can we go home now?

mmmwksil

I agreed to that in the first page of the thread, yo. :P

I'm tool damned lazy to read this whole thread!!!!

Combat system is good. Story is incredibly poor. They ruined the characters set up in X The charlies angels style of the game was so incredibly lame. The music was way more forgettible than in X Less customisation than in other FF's such as XII and XI So many reused locations from X (a given considering it's a sequel, but it just shows the lack of origionality) YRP... Urgh I fail to see how it's the best.xXShortroundXx

That's why I said look at the combat system ALONE. :P

The rest of the game is arguably a mess, but you can't deny it gives you a crapload of stuff to do, and a great combat system with which to do it.

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.princeofshapeir

Transgender??? lol wut?

You do realize most people in society today identify as androgynous?

Japanese games aren't even mainstream outside of handhelds. Unless you're financially invested into gaming then it's just a waste of time to care.

All of the final fantasy characters have zero depth, no motives, and absolutely no compelling or redeeming factors. They're all either antisocial, apathetic emo kids or annoyingly bubbly and cute. That Square has continued to create gender-ambiguous leads in every installment is testament to how crap the series is from a story standpoint.

Ok Lighting is a weak main character, but Cloud is definetly not. He is allowed to be emo. If you have played Crisis Core & FF7 you will know why, I don't want to spoil anything but after playing XIII and VII, I can't understand why Lighting is so solemn all the time, but it's easy to identify with Cloud.

Also he has an awsome motorbike.

[QUOTE="xXShortroundXx"]Combat system is good. Story is incredibly poor. They ruined the characters set up in X The charlies angels style of the game was so incredibly lame. The music was way more forgettible than in X Less customisation than in other FF's such as XII and XI So many reused locations from X (a given considering it's a sequel, but it just shows the lack of origionality) YRP... Urgh I fail to see how it's the best.mmmwksil

That's why I said look at the combat system ALONE. :P

The rest of the game is arguably a mess, but you can't deny it gives you a crapload of stuff to do, and a great combat system with which to do it.

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.ActicEdge

Lol no. Got play Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger and tell me that japanese games are all about transgender protagonists. Go play Monster Hunter, Demon/Dark Souls and Zack and Wiki and try and tell me the Japanese can't make rewarding, challenging games. Sorry but no.

1. The first half of those games aren't even this gen, or last-gen; I'm not saying every Japanese game ever made is bad, but by now JRPGs have continued this formula established by VII of creating gender-ambiguous characters that fit each archetype established in VII. I loved Chrono Trigger and Xenogears, and it's sad to see how JRPGs have gone down in quality since the Playstation era.

2. I never claimed the Japanese couldn't make rewarding or challenging games. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"]I'm waiting for the day Japanese games that are not Nintendo games die. The Final Fantasy series represents the Japanese style of promoting transgender protagonists, and it was clear with XIII that the series was imploding on itself. Good riddance, I say.princeofshapeir

Transgender??? lol wut?

You do realize most people in society today identify as androgynous?

Japanese games aren't even mainstream outside of handhelds. Unless you're financially invested into gaming then it's just a waste of time to care.

All of the final fantasy characters have zero depth, no motives, and absolutely no compelling or redeeming factors. They're all either antisocial, apathetic emo kids or annoyingly bubbly and cute. That Square has continued to create gender-ambiguous leads in every installment is testament to how crap the series is from a story standpoint.

So let me make sure I understand you correctly.

You don't like Final Fantasy characters... therefore any Japanese game that isn't Nintendo should no longer be made? Does someone force you to buy these? Is your bank account haunted by a mysterious force?

I've never really cared too much for any of the stories outside of 10. I just enjoy good gameplay. If you feel differently, then meh, that's fine by me.

Yeah, all good man. I see where you are coming from. ;)xXShortroundXx

If that's true, you should've seen through this whole thread. :P

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

X-2 might even be a better game than XIII. :o

mmmwksil

Nope. Think about the combat system, and the combat system ALONE.

It is the pinnacle of the Job Changing system introduced in FFV. Only with girls and pretty-princess-dress-me-up.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]+1 point for recognizing IX's greatnes. -1 point for absolutely undermining VII. It's overrated, but there's substance behind the hype. -1000000000 points for putting the greatest RPG ever made down.mmmwksil

I don't undermine VII's accomplishments. I just expose the many, MANY flaws the game had.

And VI the greatest RPG ever made? :lol: x99

You really need to play through that mess of a game again, Chaz.