Final Fantasy XIII > VII

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFVI was great for its time, really. Its story was truly an improvement in the genre. But it wasn't better than later games.

texasgoldrush

Reusing the same elements is what makes it a series. That's sort of the point. FFVI did it too. Rebels fighting against an empire, anyone?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Outside their respective story arcs, I once took Gau alone to see Terra in Zozo, and his lines were far from generic. Having different characters alters the Magitek Factory sections of the script.mmmwksil

One or two variations does not give the rest of the scenes with generic script a pass.

Also, considering the cost of Magic in VI and the availability of skills on certain characters, why would you ever want to change a group consisting of Sabin, Cyan, Shadow and Terra/Celes?

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FFVI was great for its time, really. Its story was truly an improvement in the genre. But it wasn't better than later games.

hakanakumono

Reusing the same elements is what makes it a series. That's sort of the point. FFVI did it too. Rebels fighting against an empire, anyone?

At least twice. II, IV, later used in VII, XII, XIII...

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Outside their respective story arcs, I once took Gau alone to see Terra in Zozo, and his lines were far from generic. Having different characters alters the Magitek Factory sections of the script.texasgoldrush

One or two variations does not give the rest of the scenes with generic script a pass.

Also, considering the cost of Magic in VI and the availability of skills on certain characters, why would you ever want to change a group consisting of Sabin, Cyan, Shadow and Terra/Celes?

If FFVII was such a problem, then why do people revere the cast?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] But it was, as later games kept recycling the same type of story and the same elements over and over again. And really later games in the series did NOT improve in storytelling in fact, got worse.mmmwksil

Reusing the same elements is what makes it a series. That's sort of the point. FFVI did it too. Rebels fighting against an empire, anyone?

At least twice. II, IV, later used in VII, XII, XIII...

And the "generic lines" were minimal. Really, only the World of Ruin has them and thats because of gameplay reasons. But there are plenty of non generic bonus scenes for having certain characters in the party. If these generic lines were such a big problem, then why do people revere the cast? Because its not a problem.texasgoldrush

Because they get attatched to the design, not the character.

Relm is the best character out of VI's cast. Does she do anything memorable? Other than cut into a boss fight with her theme and paintbrush, no. But her design is adorable.

VI has its fair share of problems, just like any FF game.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

One or two variations does not give the rest of the scenes with generic script a pass.

Also, considering the cost of Magic in VI and the availability of skills on certain characters, why would you ever want to change a group consisting of Sabin, Cyan, Shadow and Terra/Celes?

hakanakumono

If FFVII was such a problem, then why do people revere the cast?

However, FFVI was the FIRST FF game and one of the first JRPGs to paint mankind instad of some mythical dark lord or evil force as the cause of the worlds problems. Also the evil empire story took a shocking and uncliched twist. In FFVI, instead of being played straight, the evil empire story is SUBVERTED.texasgoldrush

Shocking and uncliche'd twist?

One of the Emperor's Generals stabbed him in the back and usurped power. Not exactly original, yo. :|

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Reusing the same elements is what makes it a series. That's sort of the point. FFVI did it too. Rebels fighting against an empire, anyone?

texasgoldrush

At least twice. II, IV, later used in VII, XII, XIII...

Was it the first? I don't know. I agree with the subverting of the empire story. Maybe not shocking, but it definitely mixed things up and that's why I like the change to the World of Ruin. I really wanted FFXII to do this, but it never did.

FFVI, however, is not the only FF to do things differently than previous FF games. You just fail to recognize the elements that exist in other games.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Reusing the same elements is what makes it a series. That's sort of the point. FFVI did it too. Rebels fighting against an empire, anyone?

texasgoldrush

At least twice. II, IV, later used in VII, XII, XIII...

Wrong, in Final Fantasy 3, humans abusing the powers of the crystals ultimately leads to the Cloud of Darkness wishing to return the world to the void.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]And the "generic lines" were minimal. Really, only the World of Ruin has them and thats because of gameplay reasons. But there are plenty of non generic bonus scenes for having certain characters in the party. If these generic lines were such a big problem, then why do people revere the cast? Because its not a problem.mmmwksil

Because they get attatched to the design, not the character.

Relm is the best character out of VI's cast. Does she do anything memorable? Other than cut into a boss fight with her theme and paintbrush, no. But her design is adorable.

VI has its fair share of problems, just like any FF game.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

At least twice. II, IV, later used in VII, XII, XIII...

ActicEdge

Wrong, in Final Fantasy 3, humans abusing the powers of the crystals ultimately leads to the Cloud of Darkness wishing to return the world to the void.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] And the "generic lines" were minimal. Really, only the World of Ruin has them and thats because of gameplay reasons. But there are plenty of non generic bonus scenes for having certain characters in the party. If these generic lines were such a big problem, then why do people revere the cast? Because its not a problem.texasgoldrush

If FFVII was such a problem, then why do people revere the cast?

I really don't see that much hate for FFVII's cast, let alone anyone who goes as far as to "abhor" it. At most, the appearance of Cloud is just referenced when people like to complain about the image of JRPG heroes in general. FFVII does however get it's own does of the "hipster" effect. FFVI just isn't perceived as popular enough to warrant it.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] However, FFVI was the FIRST FF game and one of the first JRPGs to paint mankind instad of some mythical dark lord or evil force as the cause of the worlds problems. Also the evil empire story took a shocking and uncliched twist. In FFVI, instead of being played straight, the evil empire story is SUBVERTED.texasgoldrush

Wrong, in Final Fantasy 3, humans abusing the powers of the crystals ultimately leads to the Cloud of Darkness wishing to return the world to the void.

Which is irrelevant because it still disproves your point.

FFVI has LESS problems storywise than other FF games, and one reason why is it is almost never pretentious and doesn't overreach. So the opera secne, the suicide attempt, the coin toss, the Cyan nightmare sequence and the Phantom Train, Terra's orphange sequences aren't memorable?texasgoldrush

I was talking about one character. Each has their own one scene that's memorable.

But one good scene isn't enough to establish them.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]And the "generic lines" were minimal. Really, only the World of Ruin has them and thats because of gameplay reasons. But there are plenty of non generic bonus scenes for having certain characters in the party. If these generic lines were such a big problem, then why do people revere the cast? Because its not a problem.texasgoldrush

Because they get attatched to the design, not the character.

Relm is the best character out of VI's cast. Does she do anything memorable? Other than cut into a boss fight with her theme and paintbrush, no. But her design is adorable.

VI has its fair share of problems, just like any FF game.

It has less problems because it doesn't try very hard.

FYI, Texas, the suicide scene is an example of a distinctly Japanese sentiment that was magnified in FFX.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

Because they get attatched to the design, not the character.

Relm is the best character out of VI's cast. Does she do anything memorable? Other than cut into a boss fight with her theme and paintbrush, no. But her design is adorable.

VI has its fair share of problems, just like any FF game.

hakanakumono

It has less problems because it doesn't try very hard.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] However, FFVI was the FIRST FF game and one of the first JRPGs to paint mankind instad of some mythical dark lord or evil force as the cause of the worlds problems. Also the evil empire story took a shocking and uncliched twist. In FFVI, instead of being played straight, the evil empire story is SUBVERTED.texasgoldrush

Wrong, in Final Fantasy 3, humans abusing the powers of the crystals ultimately leads to the Cloud of Darkness wishing to return the world to the void.

Sure but you simplify the intentions of the main villain. The back story to the game isn't at all about Xande's main intentions. Its about abuse of power drawing the world back to a state of nothing. Its not the deepest FF story but the point is not about Xande.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]FFVI has LESS problems storywise than other FF games, and one reason why is it is almost never pretentious and doesn't overreach. So the opera secne, the suicide attempt, the coin toss, the Cyan nightmare sequence and the Phantom Train, Terra's orphange sequences aren't memorable?mmmwksil

I was talking about one character. Each has their own one scene that's memorable.

But one good scene isn't enough to establish them.

[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]

I stopped ready right there. You are either trolling or completely clueless and never played FFVII. It's funny we are talking FF. I was just looking through my games and discovered I own FFV and FFVI. FFVII is my favorite so far. Good thing for me, I get to start FFXIII on Sunday. I own FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, FFX-2, FFXIII, and FFT.

mmmwksil

I was trolling, Amazon. Have no disdain. :P

I actually like VII quite a lot. I like every FF game to some extent (save XI and XIV).

Seven had amazing pacing. Where the game linear? Yes, in a sense. You go through it in a linear fashion like most JRPGs... But what do you do? You invade the shinra building, snowboard down mountains, climb through caves.. You go through all these awesome sequences and there is always something interesting happening. The plot drives you through each of these events as well in a cohesive manner.

They actually explain what the story means in an easy manner.. It doesn't confuse you for no reason. Everything you need to know is described to you in cutscenes.. Not like in XIII where they talk a load of freaking nonsense and then they give you these insane logs that you need to read so you can put it all together which is a ludicris way to tell a story and I couldn't think of a manner in which to tell a story that would kill any interest that I had in what was happening any faster.

The gameplay is better. XIII's battle system is ok, but it is just diffferent for the sake of being different. The boss battles and all battles in general are a lot more enjoyable. There isn't again, a load of none sense that overcomplicates something that didn't need to be complicated.

There are no environments. In VII, you go through buildings, sky scrapers, caves, towns, real areas that help immerse you in the world. I have no clue WTF XIII was going for.. I mean you walk on random platforms in the sky with enemies just standing there. Its stupid.

There is NO motivation to keep you playing. I like VII's story, bash it all you want or whatever but atleast it was straight forward and you knew what was going on...I don't even know if XIII's story is good or bad because it is told so poorly....The graphics are great, but the environments are so constricted and bland that I couldn't even appriciate it. They did almost as much as they could to make the game as boring and unenjoyable as possible in XIII, where as I enjoyed every minute of VII.. And it has nothing to do with Nostalgia, because I actually didn't even play VII till last summer, I had only played XIII and X before XIII, both those games are leagues better than XIII as well. It is awful, and the worst final fantasy game.

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse it did as well... It is the Attack of the Clones to Final Fantasy XII's Phantom Menace.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Wrong, in Final Fantasy 3, humans abusing the powers of the crystals ultimately leads to the Cloud of Darkness wishing to return the world to the void.

ActicEdge

Sure but you simplify the intentions of the main villain. The back story to the game isn't at all about Xande's main intentions. Its about abuse of power drawing the world back to a state of nothing. Its not the deepest FF story but the point is not about Xande.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] FFVI has LESS problems storywise than other FF games, and one reason why is it is almost never pretentious and doesn't overreach. So the opera secne, the suicide attempt, the coin toss, the Cyan nightmare sequence and the Phantom Train, Terra's orphange sequences aren't memorable?texasgoldrush

It has less problems because it doesn't try very hard.

Not necessarily, but you're certainly not going to come up with anything if you don't try. FFVI certainly tried harder than FFI. That's why it's better than FFI.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It has less problems because it doesn't try very hard.

hakanakumono

Not necessarily, but you're certainly not going to come up with anything if you don't try. FFVI certainly tried harder than FFI. That's why it's better than FFI.

FYI, Texas, the suicide scene is an example of a distinctly Japanese sentiment that was magnified in FFX.

hakanakumono

Did you read the post...I listed scenes that the same character is in for both Celes and Cyan. Thats more than one scene....texasgoldrush

I get you like VI's cast a lot, but I never saw anything there. They were characters with quip descriptions and a few lines/scenes a piece to flesh them out.

In a game as long as FFVI, you need constant interaction. You need the characters playing off each other. They don't do that; they just focus on the next plot point and move along.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] However, the mythical dark lord or evil force is the main antagonist and its the evil force that wants to destroy the world, not mankind.texasgoldrush

Sure but you simplify the intentions of the main villain. The back story to the game isn't at all about Xande's main intentions. Its about abuse of power drawing the world back to a state of nothing. Its not the deepest FF story but the point is not about Xande.

The game is not about Xande. They don't even name Xande for a large portion of the game and you never see that character until the end of the game and he is not the final boss. Again, FF 3 has a shallow story but that isn't the point, the point of FFs story is that abuse of power leads to destruction. People abused natures gifts and they almost suffered for it, that's the point and I'm playing the game for the 13th time right now, I know what its about.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

If FFVII was such a problem, then why do people revere the cast?

hakanakumono

I really don't see that much hate for FFVII's cast, let alone anyone who goes as far as to "abhor" it. At most, the appearance of Cloud is just referenced when people like to complain about the image of JRPG heroes in general. FFVII does however get it's own does of the "hipster" effect. FFVI just isn't perceived as popular enough to warrant it.

Seven had amazing pacing. Where the game linear? Yes, in a sense. You go through it in a linear fashion like most JRPGs... But what do you do? You invade the shinra building, snowboard down mountains, climb through caves.. You go through all these awesome sequences and there is always something interesting happening. The plot drives you through each of these events as well in a cohesive manner.

They actually explain what the story means in an easy manner.. It doesn't confuse you for no reason. Everything you need to know is described to you in cutscenes.. Not like in XIII where they talk a load of freaking nonsense and then they give you these insane logs that you need to read so you can put it all together which is a ludicris way to tell a story and I couldn't think of a manner in which to tell a story that would kill any interest that I had in what was happening any faster.

The gameplay is better. XIII's battle system is ok, but it is just diffferent for the sake of being different. The boss battles and all battles in general are a lot more enjoyable. There isn't again, a load of none sense that overcomplicates something that didn't need to be complicated.

There are no environments. In VII, you go through buildings, sky scrapers, caves, towns, real areas that help immerse you in the world. I have no clue WTF XIII was going for.. I mean you walk on random platforms in the sky with enemies just standing there. Its stupid.

There is NO motivation to keep you playing. I like VII's story, bash it all you want or whatever but atleast it was straight forward and you knew what was going on...I don't even know if XIII's story is good or bad because it is told so poorly....The graphics are great, but the environments are so constricted and bland that I couldn't even appriciate it. They did almost as much as they could to make the game as boring and unenjoyable as possible in XIII, where as I enjoyed every minute of VII.. And it has nothing to do with Nostalgia, because I actually didn't even play VII till last summer, I had only played XIII and X before XIII, both those games are leagues better than XIII as well. It is awful, and the worst final fantasy game.

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse it did as well... It is the Attack of the Clones to Final Fantasy XII's Phantom Menace.

VendettaRed07

It was all a troll thread, yo.

I have my issues with VII and XIII alike, but I love them both. :P

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FYI, Texas, the suicide scene is an example of a distinctly Japanese sentiment that was magnified in FFX.

texasgoldrush

The romanticization of these elements is distinctly Japanese, recognized as the "pathos of things," dating back to the Tale of Genji. Particularly, romanticizing loss, yearning, and impermanence are distinctly Japanese and FFVI does it in a distinctly Japanese fashion. Of course, these elements are relatable to humankind, given that these are simply tapping into the consciousness of those who participate in the human condition.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

FYI, Texas, the suicide scene is an example of a distinctly Japanese sentiment that was magnified in FFX.

hakanakumono

The romanticization of these elements is distinctly Japanese, recognized as the "pathos of things," dating back to the Tale of Genji. Particularly, romanticizing loss, yearning, and impermanence are distinctly Japanese and FFVI does it in a distinctly Japanese fashion. Of course, these elements are relatable to humankind, given that these are simply tapping into the consciousness of those who participate in the human condition.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] Suicide and hopelessness is a distinctly Japanese sediment?texasgoldrush

The romanticization of these elements is distinctly Japanese, recognized as the "pathos of things," dating back to the Tale of Genji. Particularly, romanticizing loss, yearning, and impermanence are distinctly Japanese and FFVI does it in a distinctly Japanese fashion. Of course, these elements are relatable to humankind, given that these are simply tapping into the consciousness of those who participate in the human condition.

Once again, you fail to understand the very games you worship.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Sure but you simplify the intentions of the main villain. The back story to the game isn't at all about Xande's main intentions. Its about abuse of power drawing the world back to a state of nothing. Its not the deepest FF story but the point is not about Xande.

ActicEdge

The game is not about Xande. They don't even name Xande for a large portion of the game and you never see that character until the end of the game and he is not the final boss. Again, FF 3 has a shallow story but that isn't the point, the point of FFs story is that abuse of power leads to destruction. People abused natures gifts and they almost suffered for it, that's the point and I'm playing the game for the 13th time right now, I know what its about.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The romanticization of these elements is distinctly Japanese, recognized as the "pathos of things," dating back to the Tale of Genji. Particularly, romanticizing loss, yearning, and impermanence are distinctly Japanese and FFVI does it in a distinctly Japanese fashion. Of course, these elements are relatable to humankind, given that these are simply tapping into the consciousness of those who participate in the human condition.

hakanakumono

Once again, you fail to understand the very games you worship.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] But it is about Xande as it is she that makes the choice to destroy the world. The story was far to shallow to even be noteworthy.texasgoldrush

The game is not about Xande. They don't even name Xande for a large portion of the game and you never see that character until the end of the game and he is not the final boss. Again, FF 3 has a shallow story but that isn't the point, the point of FFs story is that abuse of power leads to destruction. People abused natures gifts and they almost suffered for it, that's the point and I'm playing the game for the 13th time right now, I know what its about.

Sure but that wasn't the original point. FF 3, 3 games before 6, humans are responsible for screwing everything up, that was the point.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

The game is not about Xande. They don't even name Xande for a large portion of the game and you never see that character until the end of the game and he is not the final boss. Again, FF 3 has a shallow story but that isn't the point, the point of FFs story is that abuse of power leads to destruction. People abused natures gifts and they almost suffered for it, that's the point and I'm playing the game for the 13th time right now, I know what its about.

ActicEdge

Sure but that wasn't the original point. FF 3, 3 games before 6, humans are responsible for screwing everything up, that was the point.

The series for me died at X, that is X was the last one i played and enjoyed enough to beat. All the ones after that I have consecutively bought, played, hated and thrown into "The Corner", where I throw games that I feel disgusted to have bought. "The Corner" is right there where the door to my room is, so everytime the door opens, it crushes the games. XIII was the last straw.

All Final Fantasy's are garbage. One game being less smelly than the other doesn't matter much

Lost Odyssey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All

Slashless

[QUOTE="Slashless"]

All Final Fantasy's are garbage. One game being less smelly than the other doesn't matter much

Lost Odyssey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All

jasonharris48

Everything aside, the thing I liked with the older FF games was that I could hold down X while doing something else, but in XIII I had to mash the button. When farming for exp/cp I mean. Cuz let's be honest, FF7 'Attack' = FF13 'Auto-Battle'. And that's what you used most of the time - in both games.

We all know that we are just walking through a virtual set when we play a game. Though most game developers, especially rpg developers, make an effort to make you forget. Its part of the goal. FFVII did a much better job in this regard. I felt like I had a world to explore. I cant say the same for XIII at all.

The overly obvious linear structure of the game was only one of many restrictions though. In FFVII I had control of my characters and their actions very early on. I didn't have to wait the length of an action game before having freedom to equip, level and just build and use my characters as I see fit. I was presented with some degree of choice as to where I explore and how I want to spend my time.

I HAD OPTIONS.

In certain aspects XIII is better. Obviously it has better visuals and though I didn't really like the battle system that much, it was built on a much better foundation that most FFs. They just failed to flesh it out though.

As a whole I find VII to be a much better, much more well rounded game and I'm not even a big fan of VII tbh.

I am just going to go out there and say it, although the main characters were not great (Vaan and Penelo), I felt that FF XII was the best modern FF game made and overall is only second to FF VI when comparing the 2D ones. Maybe that's just me, but I loved that game.

Also, FF XIII was NOT a bad game, it just wasn't as good as it should have been for a game that took THAT long to develop and had THAT much hype. I would rate it an 8 / 10. Additionally, I believe that FF XIII - 2 should not have been made but they should have focused on Versus 13, even if it means releasing on the 360. I want that game VERY badly :(

Also, Balthier is awesome! :)

I am just going to go out there and say it, although the main characters were not great (Vaan and Penelo), I felt that FF XII was the best modern FF game made and overall is only second to FF VI when comparing the 2D ones. Maybe that's just me, but I loved that game.

Also, FF XIII was NOT a bad game, it just wasn't as good as it should have been for a game that took THAT long to develop and had THAT much hype. I would rate it an 8 / 10. Additionally, I believe that FF XIII - 2 should not have been made but they should have focused on Versus 13, even if it means releasing on the 360. I want that game VERY badly :(

Also, Balthier is awesome! :)

killa4lyfe

Yeah, even with all its flaws, XII was still a great game. In a way I think it played a big part in my disapointment with XIII. XII felt more "next gen" than XIII imo.

Final Fantasy XIII is one of the best games I've played. Screw the haters. Simple as that.

[QUOTE="killa4lyfe"]

I am just going to go out there and say it, although the main characters were not great (Vaan and Penelo), I felt that FF XII was the best modern FF game made and overall is only second to FF VI when comparing the 2D ones. Maybe that's just me, but I loved that game.

Also, FF XIII was NOT a bad game, it just wasn't as good as it should have been for a game that took THAT long to develop and had THAT much hype. I would rate it an 8 / 10. Additionally, I believe that FF XIII - 2 should not have been made but they should have focused on Versus 13, even if it means releasing on the 360. I want that game VERY badly :(

Also, Balthier is awesome! :)

sandbox3d

Yeah, even with all its flaws, XII was still a great game. In a way I think it played a big part in my disapointment with XIII. XII felt more "next gen" than XIII imo.

:o I compeltely agree. I hope that they re-release FF XII so I can play it again, as I gave my PS2 to my cousin :(

Additionally, that is why I am hyped a lot for Versus XIII because it seems to feel more like XII mixed with Kingdom Hearts than any other FF. :)

I know I'm totally in the minority on this, but Final Fantasy V is my favorite game in the series. Personally, I enjoyed it more then VI, VII, IX, or X.

Poor Final Fantasy V, its probally the most underrated game in the entire series.