For Honor on ps4 Pro..1440p 30fps low/med settings

@Juub1990: Alright almighty judge of posts, so sorry my irrelevant post twisted your pants so strongly.

@Xabiss:

Cpu should have no problems what so ever at 30fps resolution is a job of the gpu not the cpu, and comsidering Horizon looks incredible and is basically rock solid 30fps i dont see the problem.

@ronvalencia:

1.As always more bullshit from you,no polaris doesnt need to be 6tf on its worse yield,

The worse yield of the r270 isnt the ps4 is the r265 which is the 7850 refresh so again proof that the worse yield is not always use and more of an in between in some cases.

3. I see no link again confirming it so again you are assuming,until you have a link proving that 320gb/s is not share and that scorpio gpu is 100% vega you have nothing you are assuming.

And you are supposed to qualify as a mod around here? No wonder this forum is such a shithole when they turn strawman posting losers into moderators.

@Vatusus: I think the verbal translation would be something like "Your joke or humor and/or wit was of such divine inspiration, that it single handedly won the internet humor game. And since the game is over, we have to go put Kenny's goalie kit away, because it's supposed to rain on Sunday."

Or any variation of "Game Over." It was kind of a thinker, but it's important we keep our minds limber and spry.

@Shewgenja: I was hoping that MS would continue the trend of releasing all of their scorpio/xbox games on Windows 10. I don't see why Scorpio would reverse that trend- MS consoles are for people who don't have PC. Console makers typically sell their hardware at a loss, because games are what make the money... so MS win's either way you buy the game.

I see the inverse of that operation. Because they are not really trying to be competitive in the console arena, they only end up green lighting safe bets and it diminishes the overall value of the brand.

This is why I tell people not to bother with the Pro.

lolkay.

Tell us how you really feel :)

Its still better on the Pro than the vanilla PS4. Also, 100% better than the non-existent Switch version.

1. RX-470D is a salvage Polaris 10 you stupid cow. RX-470D has 4.5 TFLOPS while PS4 Pro has 4.2 TFLOPS.

R7-265 has 1.89 TFLOPS while PS4 has 1.84 TFLOPS.

Both RX-470D and R7-265 are slightly faster than their PS4 counterparts, but they are both in similar ball park performance profiles.

The only bullshit comes from you. You don't know shit.

2. I already covered shared memory issue. Polaris' memory delta compression regains the lost effective memory bandwidth from real world CPU usage pattern and memory controller inefficiencies.

Scorpio's CPU memory bandwidth will not exceed my Intel i7-4790K CPU's 34 GB/s memory bandwidth nor it will exceed PCI-E version 16X's 32 GB/s bandwidth usage.

PS4 CPU consumes about 10 GB/s real world memory bandwidth as per Sony's slide presentation. 2X scaled output results would be 20 GB/s. PS4 Pro's CPU has 1.3X scaled from PS4's CPUs.

Scorpio's CPU memory bandwidth usage estimate: 30 GB/s which is 3X PS4's real world memory bandwidth output results.

Standard memory timings GDDR5-7000 x 384 bit yields 328 GB/s physical memory bandwidth.

328 GB/s - CPU's 30 GB/s = 298 GB/s

Apply Polaris' memory controller inefficiencies of 0.77 percent yields 229.46 GB/s

Apply Polaris' delta memory compression booster of 1.36X percent yields ~312.07 GB/s.

Against R9-390X's physical 384 GB/s memory bandwidth. Apply R9-290X's memory controller inefficiencies of 0.81 percent on R9-390X's 384 GB/s yields 311 GB/s

R9-390X doesn't have any delta memory compression.

Scorpio wouldn't be driving SLI , CF, Vega 10 and Titan X Pascal GPUs like my Core i7-4790K CPU's potential.

Oculus Rift's Intel i5-4590 officially supports 128 bits DDR3-1600 with 25 GB/s memory bandwidth http://ark.intel.com/products/80815/Intel-Core-i5-4590-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz

Oculus Rift's has 90 Hz refresh rates.

3. Please share a link that shows Scorpio has the same GPU as PS4 Pro. It's fact PS4 Pro's GPU 2.x perf/watt range belongs in Polaris 10 era.

Vega's 4X perf/watt applied on PS4's 1.84 TFLOPS yields 7.36 TFLOPS. 6 TFLOPS is about 1.36 TFLOPS less than 7.36 TFLOPS.

The TFLOPS gap between worst case RX-470D to best case RX-480 is 1.3 TFLOPS

Can you see the pattern?

7.36 TFLOPS with Vega 11 and 36 NCU will need 1597.2 Mhz clock speed.

Vega 10's 12.5 TFLOPS with 64 NCU will need 1528 Mhz clock speed. This establishes the clock speed range for Vega.

6 TFLOPS Vega 11 with 32 working NCUs will need 1464.8 Mhz clock speed.

Can you see the pattern?

Scorpio has the worst case working Vega 11 just as PS4 Pro has worst case Polaris 10 era GPU.

You don't know shit.

From linkedin.

A long with 4096 SP GPU with GFX IP v9.0(this is Vega 10), there's a whole new SOC(system-on-chip) with GFX IP v9.0 (Vega type IGP)....

With engineering sample for Vega 10 reveal CES 2017 date range, Phil Spencer revealed early working Scorpio machines .

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/phil-spencer-has-played-his-first-games-on-xbox-scorpio Date: Jan 24, 2017.

PS4 Pro's SoC is not completely new.

With 1.46 Ghz clock speed, Polaris 10's ROPS needs clock speed upgrade!!! Everything inside the GPU needs to be upgraded for higher clock speed.

You lose.

I ended up not getting the pro and got the slim instead pro is a good value compared to pc but to someone with a real pc its just not much value. I have one for exclusives and exclusive games on the pro vs the slim just isnt big enough difference to justify paying 100 bucks more.

@Shewgenja: Hey Man, would you mind elaborating in more detail on what you were saying in your comment? I don't know if it's just me and I'm tired, but I didn't really understand what you meant- for instance why you say they are not being competitive as a console and how the diminishing brand relates to what I was saying about PC MS releases.

(I very much am interested in what you intended to mean, i apologize for not grasping it)

@NFJSupreme: I did end up getting the Pro. As an owner of a 4k TV, and a PC capable of 4k / 60+, it was worth the extra cash. In my mind, if you got a Playstation with only the exclusives in mind (as you should), then you are not really basing your console purchase decision on economic factors- hence all the more reason you would want to have the best system possible to see those few games at their highest quality. The difference of 100 bucks seems like nothing, especially when you consider the cost of PC upgrades, and the fact that that measly extra 100 unlocks the ability for most games to go from 30fps to 60fps. Which I would think you would agree is a huge difference. I don't really understand how you chose to go with the Slim over the Pro. Especially if you are saying that you did not own a PS4 before, with all due respect! I can't help but think you made a bit of a blunder. :/

Yep still don't get why they are trying to push for 4k resolutions, they should have kept it at 1080p and pushed frame rate.. 30fps is absolutely garbage for the majority of genres out there, especially for a game like For Honor.

No problem. In order to understand what I am saying, we have to take a couple of things as fact.

1. As things stand, there is literally no possible way the XBox One is going to outsell the XBox 360. Unless Scorpio becomes Gaming Jesus, and is also considered an extension of the XBox One branding (@SecretPolice@kvally are you guys sure you don't want to consider PS4 Pro an extension of PS4 rather than a separate platform? Ya'll might have a lot of explaining to do in the years ahead if not, especially if you try to pile XBox One sales with Scorpio for sales thread wins), breaking 70 or 80 million unit sales is looking like a mathematical impossibility.

2. A subject that simply doesn't get talked about in the System Wars reality vortex is that if a third party approached MS to make an XBox exclusive or run to PS4 with their game instead, MS would take that deal all day long. Third parties, even moreso than MS themselves, ultimately have the leverage to put exclusives on the XBone if they wanted to. However, the situation is the complete opposite. MS is approaching publishers and developers with exclusivity deals precisely because they can dangle the PC publishing carrot in their faces. Long story short, 25 million-or-so installed fanbases pay generation 6 bills, but are a long and far cry from recouping Gen 7 costs let alone Gen 8. "It's business" as the age old lemming adage goes.

This is a hole the XBox One has dug itself into further. By chasing the software sales across the two MS platforms, an Achilles Heel has exposed itself. You'd be very wrong if you think Nintendo and Sony have not noticed. Microsoft has very clearly grown some distance from the XBox brand. The fact that they rely on the PC platform to keep their bean counters happy should be a HUGE warning sign to everyone and it amazes me that game journalists have not connected such obvious dots. Exclusives push console sales, but the XBox is not in a position to have third party exclusives or even first party exclusives. Like every single other exposed weakness with the platform, it's covered up with convenient narratives that exist completely irrespective of reality. MS keeps trying to take shortcuts with the XBox brand to make it all things to all people while shorting on the one element that matters most, being games.

So, to circle back on your question. This reliance on PC as a crutch for exclusive software has had the exact opposite effect that Sony's reliance on exclusives had on the Playstation 3 back when it was also struggling. With the PS3, Sony may have suffered some big losses in the early half of the generation, but they carried on with the formula of splashing on exclusivity deals and leveraging their first-party as well as second-party development houses to create differentiation for their console. The result was plain to see. PS3 caught up to the XBox last generation, XBox One abandoned all of those things to a 't' when things got tough and succomed to pressure internally to increase revenue by any means necessary. The result is they have let the reins completely loose on their competition while they gradually sink in the market. In other words, not competing.

The narrative that Xbox is a better platform for forsaking true exclusivity is utterly hilarious. XBox leadership, and the XBox fanbase, are living in a parallel reality and their words have no meaning. All of us know what a console that struggles to come from behind looks like. Even the Super Nintendo eventually caught Sega and it sure has hell didn't do it with only cross platform games. Everyone selling us on the notion that up isn't up and down isn't down is either an idiot themselves or think so lowly of all of us that they can lie without repercussion.

@Shewgenja:

2. You haven't posted any facts.

Game console dominates the U.S. market.

Game console dominates on multi-platform EA games.

Game console dominates on multi-platform Ubisoft games.

Game console dominates on multi-platform Activision games.

Most PCs are powered by Intel graphics.

UK = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.

Germany = console gaming is higher than PC gaming.

USA = console gaming is higher than PC gaming. Very narrow gap between XBO and PS4.

Japan = effectively PS4 lake for desktop gaming. Nintendo is not even competing against Sony on desktop games console form factor. Sony has near monopoly in this market.

China = PC gaming is higher than console gaming. This is an artificial construct by the Chinese government to support Chinese gaming software companies such as Net Ease and Tencent. Until recently, Chinese government has restricted non-Chinese game consoles.

Based on Ubisoft's sampled results, XBO is just 17 percent behind PS4 and PC is 3rd. Most of Ubisoft's sales are in western countries with NA their largest revenue market. On USA RPG share play, the gap is only 7 percent.

The difference between XB with SNES/Genesis is the Japanese market factor. Japan is effectively PS4 lake.

MSFT goal is to dominate USA and make it XBO lake and PS4's gap with XBO is narrow in the USA.

Game consoles are a minority in China with Windows PC gaming dominating.

@ronvalencia: And all of that means jack shit if none of those publishers are putting exclusives on the XBox like they did in previous generations. . .

@p1p3dream: i hear you but no 4k tv yet only 1440p monitor. Not hooking up my console to a monitor when i have a good inch. But when i do updrade i might trade this in 4 a pro. I ended up paying less than 100 bucks for it after gift cards and recent price drop so id actually make money when i trade it in and by then the price should be down to like 350

@Shewgenja: I really appreciate you taking the time to layout your background thinking on this. And, of course, you're absolutely right. The Xbox brand has really been coasting on the fumes of marketing buzzwords and the promise of a future that has come and gone. You know, I'm embarrassed to say I really hadn't put it all together until now, just how bad Microsoft had fumbled with this generation. You're so correct, it all began at the very beginning when they gave in to public pressure concerning the always online policies. I was just discussing Nintendo's position in the landscape, and why I thought they have been an incredibly smart and successful company by operating the way they do, and the fact that the PS4 and XBOX are pretty much the same product, that do the exact same thing, with most of the same media, fighting over the same audience- XBOX gave up a huge part of its identity and what was going to make it special and different from the PS4 right off the bat. A lot of people got so caught up in the idea of Always On, that they completely missed a lot of the innovative features and systems that would of been part of it.

Going forward it makes zero sense for MS to continue with their Xbox / PC crossover. Honestly, i just never cared enough to give the whole thing much thought, because - well - the xbox really has nothing in the way of exclusives that are value propositions. But now looking at their situation head on, it looks incredibly dire- and I never considered the reason WHY they allowed xbox games to crossover to PC- i just figured they wanted to add value to the brand, but hearing you say it makes me realize that wow- yes this whole thing is like throwing out a life preserver to increase immediate revenue anyway possible.

Now that I think about it, I haven't even noticed that much of the usual noise from the xbox camp about it being the better system- it's very clear why the Scorpio is needed, and for the first time, I'm actually very interested to see what happens with scorpio. Because the Xbox 1 was a bit of a disaster. I can see now that the backwards compatibility project was just to have a way to get more content on to a system. Going forward to be successful I would expect to see some pretty dramatic policy changes- but of course the main thing for all consoles, "are the games stupid". MS needs to get those first party studios on board if it hopes to stay competitive.

Thanks for the discussion, you gave me a lot to think about.

Your narrative means jack shit if it's not back by western multi-platform game companies results.

Your argument would be good if western publisher's results supports your narrative, but it doesn't support such narrative.

@ronvalencia: @sSubZerOo:I'm not entirely clear of what point you were trying to make. No one is arguing that Consoles sell more games than PC, and this actually makes logical sense. If you look over Shwhenja's and my discussion you can see that we are specifically concerned about XBOX's future and what has happened to the brand. You posted up a lot of infographics with numbers everywhere, but it doesn't really mean a whole lot without a point to drive.

Shewgenja's narrative is NOT backed by western multiplatform game companies results!!!

Good question.........lololololololol

At least is 10 times better than the non-existent Switch version.lol

Nintendo Switch......lol

Money from Europe spends just as good as money from Australia, Japan, or even the US. Multiplats sell big simply because there is a market in the first place. Your reasoning is reductive to a fault.

@ronvalencia: So despite the fact that the x1 is beating the 360 they should what give up lmao. The 360 sold 84 million last gen and the x1 is beating that. Also they have sales coming in from the pc app as well.

So MS is doing good.

If you look at Ubisoft's result from 2014 to 2016, XBO is also in the growth phase just like PS4.

12 months 2014/15 to 2015/16

XBO: 6 percent change i.e. 20 to 26

PS4: 10 percent change i.e. 32 to 42

The gap is 16 percent between 26 vs 42..

Q4 2015/16 to Q4 2014/15

XBO: 19 to 31 has 12 percent change. Kinect was dropped in around Q3 2014.

PS4: 23 to 48 has 25 percent change

The gap is 13 percent between 31 vs 48.

My extra graphs are for hedging other arguments e.g.

1. there other markets outside USA. My Chinese graph takes out China from the console wars.

2. PC gaming's position in other markets.

Note why Phil Spencer has stated "it could be better".

@ronvalencia: I swear I'm not trying to be difficult, but you haven't really said what your actual argument is! :) Okay, so I'm guessing that you're implying that XBOX is in a growth phase. I would say that it's a bit tricky sometimes with statistics, because you can shape what the result is through the way you read them and internet them.

The fact is, past XBOX growth has been on "credit." Essentially, they encouraged growth through future marketing and on 'hail mary' type features- features that can be good for short term growth, but ultimately damaging for long term. Like letting XBOX exclusives be available on PC.

Significant xbox growth isn't just going to organically happen, it has to be driven real concrete things. Namely, exclusive games. At this point, things are at such a dire level for the xbox in terms of new content, that they would be talking about EVERY upcoming game they possibly could in order to help build hype and traction.... and the fact that they are quiet on new IP's only serves to underline the fact that Microsoft just does not have any first party content in the pipeline anytime soon... and exclusive content is what drives console growth.

@ronvalencia: "Shewgenja's narrative is NOT backed by western multiplatform game companies results!!!"

Would you want to elaborate on this? I have no idea what this sentence means, and what it has to do with Shewgenja's and my discussion on future Xbox growth.

Word, not to beat a dead horse- but it would make sense for someone buying their first PS4 to go with the pro, because you actually do see better quality even at 1080p, it's called supersampling. :) Anyway! It's all good- enjoy your PS4 man and se you around.

Game looks fine on the PS4 Pro, unless you delve into the detail, no one really pays attention to the number of cracks on a rock or what the player's shadow looks like. The massive downside I see to this is the god awful 30fps, the sooner they kill that crap with fire the better.

3 things that should be completely banned from video gaming -

1. 30fps, frame rates should be a priority over fidelity
2. Motion Blur, horrible post processing smoke and mirrors crap.
3. Depth of Field, You're eyes do this naturally, there is nothing worse in a game than when you move your eyes off centre and the scene is out of focus.

If "ultimately damaging for long term. Like letting XBOX exclusives be available on PC." is true, how come Ubisoft's multiplatform games revenue numbers shows XBO being superior over PC?

How come EA's multiplatform games revenue numbers shows consoles being superior over PC?

How come Activision's multiplatform games revenue numbers shows consoles being superior over PC?

Why the assumption with PC will always win the multiplatform games revenue?

PS; Halo 5 hasn't been ported to PCs.

Australia's gaming market is very small. https://newzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Newzoo_Australian_Games_Market_2015.png

Japan is a lost cause with near PS4 monopoly on desktop gaming. PC gaming in Japan is a minority.

The majority of game tiles on XBO are multiplatform games.

PC already has a market yet still has inferior western multiplatform games revenue results.

Your reasoning is reductive to a fault.

@ronvalencia:

There could be a whole ton of reasons why Ubisofts multiple games are superior on console over PC. It could be that PC gamers are less of a fan of Ubisoft style games, and that they are more appealing to console owners. You can't just look at these statistics in a vacuum... I think that PC gamers and console gamers can oftentimes have different tastes in games. PC gamers trend towards FPS style games, console gamers trend towards 3rd person adventure style games (which are the type of games Ubisoft makes)... And xbox exclusives on PC are damaging towards xbox, because it doesn't encourage people to buy consoles.

But also, I'm still a bit fuzzy on your point. Using Ubisoft's mutliplatform game sales has little relevance on the overall healthy and growth of the xbox.

All these numbers you're showing me say is that EA and Ubisoft games are more popular on consoles than PC.

Once again, I've been speaking about the future growth of xbox and the fact there aren't any exclusives to encourage the growth.

@ronvalencia said:

@Shewgenja said:

@ronvalencia said:

Shewgenja's narrative is NOT backed by western multiplatform game companies results!!!

Money from Europe spends just as good as money from Australia, Japan, or even the US. Multiplats sell big simply because there is a market in the first place. Your reasoning is reductive to a fault.

Australia's gaming market is very small. https://newzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Newzoo_Australian_Games_Market_2015.png

Japan is a lost cause with near PS4 monopoly on desktop gaming. PC gaming in Japan is a minority.

The majority of game tiles on XBO are multiplatform games.

PC already has a market yet still has inferior western multiplatform games revenue results.

Your reasoning is reductive to a fault.

Of course the majority of XBO games are multiplatform, it doesn't have very many popular exclusive franchises- and nothing in the pipeline. That's the whole point of what we're saying. The only thing XBOX has is Multiplatform games keeping it alive, and that is very shaky, and you can't rely on multi platforms to grow your console. console growth is by exclusive features.

The answer to all of those is diversity. On a console you have limited choices. On PC you have games that are supported for, in some cases, over a decade. There are entire genres that don't even get on to consoles, for many reasons. When you have a million stars to choose from a single one disappears.

As for Halo 5 not being on PC, you forgot to add "yet"

If PC's wider choices is it's main advantage, how come Ubisoft's multiplatform games revenue numbers shows XBO being superior over PC? Same with EA and Activision. I don't see Xbox's revenue share being transferred to PC.

You are ignoring PC vs consoles statistics again.

@ronvalencia: You seem to have ignored all my reasons that I posted about PC vs Console. You can't look at the statistics from two game companies, that primarily make console games, and make accurate conclusions

@ronvalencia said:

1. RX-470D is a salvage Polaris 10 you stupid cow. RX-470D has 4.5 TFLOPS while PS4 Pro has 4.2 TFLOPS.

R7-265 has 1.89 TFLOPS while PS4 has 1.84 TFLOPS.

Here goes the fu**ing moron again.

1-The PS4 Pro is 36CU the 470D is not you MORON the lower TF count comes from the GPU speed it self not from the number of CU you fu**Ing rise the PSD4 Pro speed and it can hit 6TF and pass it,sure it would cause heat problems and melt but it can do so,it doesn't because of heat concerns,the PS4 has 36 working CU the RX470D doesn't regardless of the flop count so that doesn't back up your yield argument idiot.

2-Yeah the R265 is 1.89TF because even that it has 2CU less it has faster speed buffoon,i can't believe you play blind to this.,

The Point is the lower point of the R270 is not the PS4 is the R265 the PS4 has 18CU the R265 has 16,so your yield argument is totally stupid moronic and WRONG spin master.

Now again LINK to MS confirming it is Vega 100% and that 320GB/s is just for GPU and not shared..hahahahahaa

I am waiting.

1. Wrong, for the given silicon quality, RX-470D can reach higher TFLOPS with higher clock speed which speeds up non-CU hardware such as tessellation/geometry, ROPS, GCP, HWS, ACE, internal bus, L2 caches and any hardware that is not CU. This is closer to NVIDIA's Maxwell approach. AMD can't keep on adding CUs without increasing non-CU hardware. Oxide (Ashes of the Singularity) already warn AMD on this issue.

Increasing the clock speed also improves serial processing and it's less dependant on super wide parallelism.

Note why Vega 10 still has 64 compute units like Fury X but with higher clock speed.

Both RX-470D and PS4 Pro follows Polaris 2.5X perf/watt basic guidelines, but with slightly different approaches for reaching their 2.X perf/watt numbers.

Vega was designed for high clock speed which catches up to Maxwell/Pascal's design approach. Vega's clock speed range falls between Maxwell and Pascal.

AMD lost the design efficiency battle against NVIDIA and it's forced to follow Maxwell/Pascal design approach.

AMD has to follow Intel Core I series designs and build their own near clone design and that's RYZEN. Bulldozer's design ideology has failed.

Did you know disable CUs can be reactivated and can be made to run stable at lower clock speed? This is about electrical leakage and noise. Some disabled CUs has very high electrical noise which renders it useless at higher clock speeds.

This issue is not about XBO vs PS4. The only moron is you.

2. Higher clock speed less shader units design approach works fine for NVIDIA i.e. less dependant on super wide parallelism hence less pressure on the driver to extract super wide parallelism.

I already posted somebody resume that shows a whole new SoC and Vega 10 with GFX IP9. The employee was from RTG not from AMD CPU division. RTG handles semi-custom business.

You have posting nothing to support a view that Scorpio has an overclocked PS4 Pro GPU.

Higher sustained clock speed has to be built into processor's design e.g. long pipeline for higher clock speed.

You support a view that Sony has latest AMD technology in 2016 while you don't support a view that MS has latest AMD technology in 2017.

At least it got the game.

Your argument doesn't include any statistics hence it's worst than my sampled statistics. Why I have to provide additional statistical data while you have provided zero?

I posted Ubisoft, EA and Activision.

http://www.psu.com/news/31772/ps4-sales-xbox-one-2016

According to DFC, XBO has 30 million install base.

It's the wider choice, it's right there at the start of your question. EA, Activision and Ubisoft's multiplatform games are only a small part of the wider choice in games and genres available on PC. Isn't that glaringly obvious to you without the need for a breakdown in their revenue streams?

You do realise that AAA multiplatform games don't hold the same weight on PC as they do on console, don't you? If they did then CoD 'whatever rehash they're on now' would be the biggest selling game, just like it is on console.

As side note, game and genre choice is not the main advantage of PC gaming, it's just one of the many advantages.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

UPDATE 22/2/17 2:50pm: AMD has officially revealed Ryzen 7 - three eight-core/16-thread processors - effectively confirming the leaks discussed below, though prices have shifted slightly. The top-tier Ryzen 7 1800X costs $499, Ryzen 7 1700X is $399, while Ryzen 7 1700 costs just $329. As expected though, AMD is significantly under-cutting Intel's Core i7 6900K with similar performance, while putting serious pressure on the i7 7700K and i7 6800K

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-how-amds-ryzen-will-disrupt-the-cpu-market

Confirmed Ryzen 8 cores minimum is $329 dollars,i am now 100% sure Ryzen like it is on PC will not be on scorpio will be a cheaper water down version,which again will not the have the same performance as an i7 or normal ryzen CPU which again means all your R390X benchmarks mean total shit as they are done without a CPU bottleneck thank to using expensive i7 pairs for benchmarks.

Microsoft deals with manufacturing contract issues not AMD i.e. MSFT funds 362 mm^2 chip fabrication not AMD.

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-5-3-launch-1600x-performance-reveal/

It's cheaper to buy two Ryzen R3-1100 for $119 each than R7-1700's $329 and glue them together, which MSFT has this option.

Having two Ryzen R3-1100 4C/4T modules already exceeds Oculus Rift VR's Intel Core i5 4590 CPU system requirements.

Ryzen R3-1100 4C/4T + FinFET Puma 4C/4T would also do the job.

According to Phil Spencer, Scorpio's 6 TFLOPS GPU will have a balanced CPU and memory setup.

Your argument with retail Ryzen 7-1700 means shit to MSFT when 362 mm^2 SoC's fabrication is contracted by Microsoft not AMD.

AMD Athlon X4 845 Excavator V1 is better PS4's Jaguar at 1.6 Ghz results.

According to AMD, Excavator 2C/2T ~= Puma+ 4C/4T at similar TDP and compute performance which is 2X perf/watt for Excavator over Puma+.

Excavator is the alternative CPU IP

PS4 NEO Option B has new CPU and 5.5 TFLOPS GPU.

I ordered my RYZEN 7-1800X for Vega 10 class GPU which is overkill for R9-390X or 1070 class GPU.

See this is the problem with you Ron you are so invested in winning and you get blind and don't analyse the information you post.

I know that it doesn't mean they get things free the xbox one weak ass console for $500 proved that,even without Kinect the xbox one still cost the same as a PS4 when it has a weaker GPU and DDR3 as memory which is cheaper to.

Oh yeah lets glue together 2 R3 1100 after all that is what sony and MS did with the jaguar right.? there is just one tiny problem with your theory which is what prompted what i told you about not analysing what you post.

The lowest 1100 4 core 4 thread,do you see that 65W? Do i need to tell you what that means or are you hones enough to admit what it is?

2 Ryzen 3 1100 CPU would require 130 watts as each one is 65 watts,which is considerably higher than most i3 by the way,so even if you water down those by half each you still have like 66 watts TPD on CPU alone,wait i am not done.

And that also mean a huge drop in performance as well,because you are cutting half the current to the CPU.

So by your own LINK is hard to believe that MS would do that,and even so $238 dollars worth of CPU on a console today seem odd,after how things move this gen and how MS and sony moved away from huge losses on hardware.

Sure it would not cost MS that,but it would not cost them low enough to ensure some profits on hardware after all a Jaguar in 2013 wasn't $238 dollars even if you bought 2.

Take into account that the Athlon 5150 already has 128 stream processors is not a stand alone CPU is an APU and was $45 dollars man,to Sony or MS that was what like $20 per chip or little less?

So you can see here how little those jaguars cost MS and sony,and the xbox one was $400 and $500,and the PS4 $400 so no unless MS plan to make a 360 all over again,with discrete components and ready to eat a loss per unit probably a big one,i don't see how your point can even get to first base.

R3 1100 is 65 watts 2 mean double the current which mean 130 watts that is considerable higher than 65watts by the cheapest 8 core and still higher than the top of the line rysen which is 95 watts.

According to Andrew Goossen so did the xbox one and we all know how balance that shit it,stop taking Phil's word as some gospel,in fact if it would be Rysen 8 cores they would be screaming it by now in every corner to stop as much people as possible from buying a Pro.

Excavator V1 845 is not fu**ing better than the Jaguar the PS4 has,you are a dishonest HYPOCRITE who use bullshit theories and use arguments as its serve you best.

Proof that you are a dishonest MS sucker.

The jaguar inside the PS4 matching an i3 4130 which actually beat an Athlon 845...

By the way SWBF3 came way after AI,so yeah the PS4 Jaguar properly coded can match an i3 poorly coded it perform like shit,but that is not the problem of the CPU at all is a problem of the DEVELOPER.

Whoah. Points for Tomatoes. He won that round.