Games today are pure trash Nolan bushnell was right

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]
Nolan bushnell has more proven right to talk about this than almost anyonein the industry...
SmashBrosLegend

thank you for proving me right... I said almost and you listed maybe 2 of the people I was referring to... Miyamoto and Sid Meier...

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

I consider Nolan Bushnell's relevance in gaming nowadays null. It's been far too long ago for me to really givea damn what he says anymore, he's out of the game so to say.

FlockofSpagheti

He didn't really invent the industry this man did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_H._Baer

you are both wrong... a group of MIT students did... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar%21

I like how I'm "wrong" on something I never commented on. :|

[QUOTE="Xolver"]

Tell us how Elite is better than GTA.

Look, it's simple. The games are better done in big studios, that's where quality comes in. Hated EA will always have better games than some little "innovative" company with little to no budget.

What you said is just simply not true. What if Bioshock took some ideas from System Shock? How does that make it worse? How can Elite compete with today's GTA? Why isn't there an "Elite: San Andreas" or "Elite 4"?

Look, you can think of it shallowly and go "hey it's been done so it sucks", but it's done better and it doesn't suck, so saying games are getting worse is just stupid. Well, as an opinion you can say it, but not as a "fact" when you try to prove it using old games.

FlockofSpagheti

its better? how is it better? give me some facts oh wait you can't because ITS JUST YOUR OPINION. you are fine consuming rehashes of games that existed 2 decades ago because they are "better"?? anyway it isnt true... games from big studios are almost universally soulless and bland... they go for pretty graphics on ideas that weve seen millions of tmes before.

So you believe that GTA 1 is better than GTA:SA? While that is true that some games don't really get improved comparing them to the previous game in the series (e.g. sports, KOTOR 2) most games aren't the same especially when comparing them with games released a decade apart.

If you don't have an open mind or you are at least willing to consider other opinions as true then there is no point in talking...

Ya because we all know no one wanted to play portal :roll: Whatever, you said developers have forgotten innovation and I pointed out Portal to prove that they haven't. Same with games like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Spore and so many DS games and a bunch of Wii games.

Rob_101

Portal would have bombed out of existence if packaged alone... its a fact. anyway those other games are all rehashes.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

I consider Nolan Bushnell's relevance in gaming nowadays null. It's been far too long ago for me to really givea damn what he says anymore, he's out of the game so to say.

FlockofSpagheti

He didn't really invent the industry this man did

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_H._Baer

you are both wrong... a group of MIT students did... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar%21

The inspiration for nerds...

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="Xolver"]

Tell us how Elite is better than GTA.

Look, it's simple. The games are better done in big studios, that's where quality comes in. Hated EA will always have better games than some little "innovative" company with little to no budget.

What you said is just simply not true. What if Bioshock took some ideas from System Shock? How does that make it worse? How can Elite compete with today's GTA? Why isn't there an "Elite: San Andreas" or "Elite 4"?

Look, you can think of it shallowly and go "hey it's been done so it sucks", but it's done better and it doesn't suck, so saying games are getting worse is just stupid. Well, as an opinion you can say it, but not as a "fact" when you try to prove it using old games.

eagle-75

its better? how is it better? give me some facts oh wait you can't because ITS JUST YOUR OPINION. you are fine consuming rehashes of games that existed 2 decades ago because they are "better"?? anyway it isnt true... games from big studios are almost universally soulless and bland... they go for pretty graphics on ideas that weve seen millions of tmes before.

So you believe that GTA 1 is better than GTA:SA? While that is true that some games don't really get improved comparing them to the previous game in the series (e.g. sports, KOTOR 2) most games aren't the same especially when comparing them with games released a decade apart.

If you don't have an open mind or you are at least willing to consider other opinions as true then there is no point in talking...

GTA has sucked from the start and has only gotten worse...

Um.... Didn't Guitar Hero do something new?

There are also a plethora of titles coming that do new things. Army of Two/Kane and Lynch, Rock Band, Mass Effect, Mario Galaxywhatsit, Jericho, Spore and I am sure there are a ton that I missed all do new things or introduce new ideas and concepts that havn't been seen before. But again by all means, go do something else if this isn't enough for you. CauseI mean, movies and television are really batting 100 lately, Cavemen anyone?

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]
Nolan bushnell has more proven right to talk about this than almost anyonein the industry...
FlockofSpagheti

Name me an original retail game from the past year if you call me a troll... one game that did something totally new...

FlockofSpagheti

Madden 08. Totally serious.

Look, people. Everything you say will just be shot down by opinions by the TC, even though he tries to make them look like facts. He won't accept what you say, so you can stop trying.

[QUOTE="Rob_101"]

Ya because we all know no one wanted to play portal :roll: Whatever, you said developers have forgotten innovation and I pointed out Portal to prove that they haven't. Same with games like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Spore and so many DS games and a bunch of Wii games.

FlockofSpagheti

Portal would have bombed out of existence if packaged alone... its a fact. anyway those other games are all rehashes.

I'm sorry Spore and Guitar Hero are rehashes of what again? What magical land do you live in that lets you play these games at the concept stage!

[QUOTE="Rob_101"]

Ya because we all know no one wanted to play portal :roll: Whatever, you said developers have forgotten innovation and I pointed out Portal to prove that they haven't. Same with games like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Spore and so many DS games and a bunch of Wii games.

FlockofSpagheti

Portal would have bombed out of existence if packaged alone... its a fact. anyway those other games are all rehashes.

:lol: Ok thats YOUR opinion. Please tell me what those games are rehashes of? I wont even list some the amazingly innovative DS game because the list is just too extensive but how is Guitar Hero a rehash, or Spore?

Um.... Didn't Guitar Hero do something new?

There are also a plethora of titles coming that do new things. Army of Two/Kane and Lynch, Rock Band, Mass Effect, Mario Galaxywhatsit, Jericho, Spore and I am sure there are a ton that I missed all do new things or introduce new ideas and concepts that havn't been seen before. But again by all means, go do something else if this isn't enough for you. CauseI mean, movies and television are really batting 100 lately, Cavemen anyone?

donny666

Guitar hero was a Guitar Freaks rip off and Rock band is just guitar hero+ sooo... Army of two and kane and lynch are not anything new but Kane and Lynch might at least be a good game... mass effect jericho and spore are all rehashes of various things that would take too long to list. Mario Galaxy looks the most original out of those by far i would say... but it is still Another 3D Mario Game...

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="Rob_101"]

Ya because we all know no one wanted to play portal :roll: Whatever, you said developers have forgotten innovation and I pointed out Portal to prove that they haven't. Same with games like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Spore and so many DS games and a bunch of Wii games.

Rob_101

Portal would have bombed out of existence if packaged alone... its a fact. anyway those other games are all rehashes.

:lol: Ok thats YOUR opinion. Please tell me what those games are rehashes of? I wont even list some the amazingly innovative DS game because the list is just too extensive but how is Guitar Hero a rehash, or Spore?

I responded earlier in the thread to that go look...

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]
Nolan bushnell has more proven right to talk about this than almost anyonein the industry...
SmashBrosLegend

being able to make a good game does not make you able to judge the state of the industry... as all of those people prove.

Look, people. Everything you say will just be shot down by opinions by the TC, even though he tries to make them look like facts. He won't accept what you say, so you can stop trying.

Xolver

Quoted for truth, this is where I make my exit.

[QUOTE="eagle-75"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="Xolver"]

Tell us how Elite is better than GTA.

Look, it's simple. The games are better done in big studios, that's where quality comes in. Hated EA will always have better games than some little "innovative" company with little to no budget.

What you said is just simply not true. What if Bioshock took some ideas from System Shock? How does that make it worse? How can Elite compete with today's GTA? Why isn't there an "Elite: San Andreas" or "Elite 4"?

Look, you can think of it shallowly and go "hey it's been done so it sucks", but it's done better and it doesn't suck, so saying games are getting worse is just stupid. Well, as an opinion you can say it, but not as a "fact" when you try to prove it using old games.

FlockofSpagheti

its better? how is it better? give me some facts oh wait you can't because ITS JUST YOUR OPINION. you are fine consuming rehashes of games that existed 2 decades ago because they are "better"?? anyway it isnt true... games from big studios are almost universally soulless and bland... they go for pretty graphics on ideas that weve seen millions of tmes before.

So you believe that GTA 1 is better than GTA:SA? While that is true that some games don't really get improved comparing them to the previous game in the series (e.g. sports, KOTOR 2) most games aren't the same especially when comparing them with games released a decade apart.

If you don't have an open mind or you are at least willing to consider other opinions as true then there is no point in talking...

GTA has sucked from the start and has only gotten worse...

Ok how about this Diablo 1>Diablo 2, Doom1>UT2004, Ultima Online> WOW ??? You think that the first ones are better that the latter? I fail to see any convincing arguments about this...

Name me an original retail game from the past year if you call me a troll... one game that did something totally new...

FlockofSpagheti

lol, it's funny, because you're criticising me for the exact same thing that I was pointing out to you in the first place. So many concepts have been done, that it's very hard, if not impossible to come up with something entirely new. Backpedal much?

Name an indie game from the past year that was completely and utterly original then. A good one that would sell great if given a big-budget release and marketing, and would be critically lauded as revolutionary.

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

Name me an original retail game from the past year if you call me a troll... one game that did something totally new...

Jagazaar

lol, it's funny, because you're criticising me for the exact same thing that I was pointing out to you in the first place. So many concepts have been done, that it's very hard, if not impossible to come up with something entirely new. Backpedal much?

Name an indie game from the past year that was completely and utterly original then. A good one that would sell great if given a big-budget release and marketing, and would be critically lauded as revolutionary.

new ideas do not sell so I could not do that...

[QUOTE="donny666"]

Um.... Didn't Guitar Hero do something new?

There are also a plethora of titles coming that do new things. Army of Two/Kane and Lynch, Rock Band, Mass Effect, Mario Galaxywhatsit, Jericho, Spore and I am sure there are a ton that I missed all do new things or introduce new ideas and concepts that havn't been seen before. But again by all means, go do something else if this isn't enough for you. CauseI mean, movies and television are really batting 100 lately, Cavemen anyone?

FlockofSpagheti

Guitar hero was a Guitar Freaks rip off and Rock band is just guitar hero+ sooo... Army of two and kane and lynch are not anything new but Kane and Lynch might at least be a good game... mass effect jericho and spore are all rehashes of various things that would take too long to list. Mario Galaxy looks the most original out of those by far i would say... but it is still Another 3D Mario Game...

Excpet GH let you play the game in a totally new way. Rock Band takes that new expereince and expands it to other areas of the genre THEN takes that experience online so you can play with people all over the world THEN adds a whole community site dedicated to the game. None of which GH or Guitar Freaks (which to be honest I have never even heard of)did.

No other shooter has focused on team play like the aformentioned shooters. FranklyI don't know what you think Spore rehashes it has to be one of the most innovative and refreshing games to come around in a long long time. Jericho takes the horror genre and adds a team based heavily story driven element to it. Mass Effect is changing the way you interact with NPCs. And for the third time there is the door, don't let it hit you one the way out.

Ok how about this Diablo 1>Diablo 2, Doom1>UT2004, Ultima Online> WOW ??? You think that the first ones are better that the latter? I fail to see any convincing arguments about this...

eagle-75

by the time Diablo 2 ut2004 and wow came out they should have had a new idea... but they just rehashed those ancient games instead. also Diablo 1 > Diablo 2 and Doom 1 will forever be better than any epic FPS.

I'm confused. You are saying that todays games are trash because a man that stole ideas back in the ;ate 70's said so, right? I've been involved with this industry since the Magnavox Odyssey and can name you 6 machines launched in the US that I have never owned. I have quite a few still working. Granted I enjoy playing Utopia and Tron Deadly Discs and some of the unknown 5200 games like Countermeasure but the games just ,more or less, hold sentimental value . It would be like saying the Gren Bay Packer team that won Superbowl in their prime could compete in the NFL today...DXGreat1_HGL

with all of this knowledge at your fingertips then it should be obvious how short a ways games have advanced...

Excpet GH let you play the game in a totally new way. Rock Band takes that new expereince and expands it to other areas of the genre THEN takes that experience online so you can play with people all over the world THEN adds a whole community site dedicated to the game. None of which GH or Guitar Freaks (which to be honest I have never even heard of)did.

No other shooter has focused on team play like the aformentioned shooters. FranklyI don't know what you think Spore rehashes it has to be one of the most innovative and refreshing games to come around in a long long time. Jericho takes the horror genre and adds a team based heavily story driven element to it. Mass Effect is changing the way you interact with NPCs. And for the third time there is the door, don't let it hit you one the way out.

donny666

Guitar freaks was almost remade with american songs in Guitar Hero... and Rock band is just an extension of Guitar hero like I said before. sure it has online play but in reality it is just guitar hero+ however neat of a game it might be. Jericho on the other hand is laughably generic... its just another horror fps with agimmick. mass effect also has a gimmick (cutting off dialogue) that is supposed to last you through like 100 hours of by-the-numbers RPG... yeah.

[QUOTE="Jagazaar"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

Name me an original retail game from the past year if you call me a troll... one game that did something totally new...

FlockofSpagheti

lol, it's funny, because you're criticising me for the exact same thing that I was pointing out to you in the first place. So many concepts have been done, that it's very hard, if not impossible to come up with something entirely new. Backpedal much?

Name an indie game from the past year that was completely and utterly original then. A good one that would sell great if given a big-budget release and marketing, and would be critically lauded as revolutionary.

new ideas do not sell so I could not do that...

Super Mario Bros.?

But I'm digressing. Ok then, name a revolutionary indie game from the last year, one that did something truely original and would be universally loved by critics if they noticed it. Putting sales aside.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] I'm confused. You are saying that todays games are trash because a man that stole ideas back in the ;ate 70's said so, right? I've been involved with this industry since the Magnavox Odyssey and can name you 6 machines launched in the US that I have never owned. I have quite a few still working. Granted I enjoy playing Utopia and Tron Deadly Discs and some of the unknown 5200 games like Countermeasure but the games just ,more or less, hold sentimental value . It would be like saying the Gren Bay Packer team that won Superbowl in their prime could compete in the NFL today...FlockofSpagheti

with all of this knowledge at your fingertips then it should be obvious how short a ways games have advanced...

It's like any other form of entertainment out there. The movie industry has been around for almost a century and how many original concept movies come out? You can take any populer genre and trace it back to one or two games, does that make the games now garbage? I can list all of the ancient school games I love, but I look forward to the new ones as well. I sill remember the rush I used to get when I played Impossible Mission on the Commodore 64 for the 1st time. I might not have the same passion now, but I still enjoy a good game...

So what would you like to see in the industry then? What blistering cutting edge advanvement or idea or theme should be pushed?

Actually I am kinda in the dark about what makes a rehash in your eyes? Are all movies today rehashes of Citizen Cain because they utilize indoor lighting? Are all books rehashes because they all include characters or general themes?

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="Jagazaar"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

Name me an original retail game from the past year if you call me a troll... one game that did something totally new...

Jagazaar

lol, it's funny, because you're criticising me for the exact same thing that I was pointing out to you in the first place. So many concepts have been done, that it's very hard, if not impossible to come up with something entirely new. Backpedal much?

Name an indie game from the past year that was completely and utterly original then. A good one that would sell great if given a big-budget release and marketing, and would be critically lauded as revolutionary.

new ideas do not sell so I could not do that...

Super Mario Bros.?

But I'm digressing. Ok then, name a revolutionary indie game from the last year, one that did something truely original and would be universally loved by critics if they noticed it. Putting sales aside.

sure thing then. from the last year let me see... I would say Toribash but it released slightly before 12 months... I would also say Goo (http://goo.pillowfortgames.com/) but its not out yet... I would have to say then that it would be Polychromatic Funk Monkey www.farbs.org/games.html

So what would you like to see in the industry then? What blistering cutting edge advanvement or idea or theme should be pushed?

Actually I am kinda in the dark about what makes a rehash in your eyes? Are all movies today rehashes of Citizen Cain because they utilize indoor lighting? Are all books rehashes because they all include characters or general themes?

donny666

most books and movies today are rehashes as well but for more complicated reasons than that that would derail this thread so I wont go into it now...

[QUOTE="donny666"]

So what would you like to see in the industry then? What blistering cutting edge advanvement or idea or theme should be pushed?

Actually I am kinda in the dark about what makes a rehash in your eyes? Are all movies today rehashes of Citizen Cain because they utilize indoor lighting? Are all books rehashes because they all include characters or general themes?

FlockofSpagheti

most books and movies today are rehashes as well but for more complicated reasons than that that would derail this thread so I wont go into it now...

In that case all I can leave you with is your are in for a lifetime of hilarious disappointment. Oh and again, what would you like to see done to remedy this apparent drought in awesomeness? After all if you arn't a part of the solution you are a part of the problem.

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] I'm confused. You are saying that todays games are trash because a man that stole ideas back in the ;ate 70's said so, right? I've been involved with this industry since the Magnavox Odyssey and can name you 6 machines launched in the US that I have never owned. I have quite a few still working. Granted I enjoy playing Utopia and Tron Deadly Discs and some of the unknown 5200 games like Countermeasure but the games just ,more or less, hold sentimental value . It would be like saying the Gren Bay Packer team that won Superbowl in their prime could compete in the NFL today...DXGreat1_HGL

with all of this knowledge at your fingertips then it should be obvious how short a ways games have advanced...

It's like any other form of entertainment out there. The movie industry has been around for almost a century and how many original concept movies come out? You can take any populer genre and trace it back to one or two games, does that make the games now garbage? I can list all of the ancient school games I love, but I look forward to the new ones as well. I sill remember the rush I used to get when I played Impossible Mission on the Commodore 64 for the 1st time. I might not have the same passion now, but I still enjoy a good game...

Impossible Mission was amazing (never managed to finish it tho)... anyway I never said all games now are garbage because they are influenced by something older because everything now was influenced by something older... the thing is that just being "influenced" and directly rehashing and/or ripping off of are different extremes of the same concept and almost everyone does the latter nowadays. Also instead of being influenced by many ideas they are influenced by one... which almost guarantees ripping off.

Aren't you the same guy who said we have no standards for stories in games?

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="donny666"]

So what would you like to see in the industry then? What blistering cutting edge advanvement or idea or theme should be pushed?

Actually I am kinda in the dark about what makes a rehash in your eyes? Are all movies today rehashes of Citizen Cain because they utilize indoor lighting? Are all books rehashes because they all include characters or general themes?

donny666

most books and movies today are rehashes as well but for more complicated reasons than that that would derail this thread so I wont go into it now...

In that case all I can leave you with is your are in for a lifetime of hilarious disappointment. Oh and again, what would you like to see done to remedy this apparent drought in awesomeness? After all if you arn't a part of the solution you are a part of the problem.

what would I do to fix it? I dont know what i myself would do but the answer is stop putting the indies down. digital distribution helps but the indies are still ignored so its all but a waste. the amount of people on the lookout for indie games is so tiny its sad. if that expanded we might see more good ideas because after all most of the ideas that the current industry is based on were the concepts of indie developers.

Aren't you the same guy who said we have no standards for stories in games?

Udsen

yes that was me

[QUOTE="Udsen"]

Aren't you the same guy who said we have no standards for stories in games?

FlockofSpagheti

yes that was me

Sorry we can't like the same things you do, buddy.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] I'm confused. You are saying that todays games are trash because a man that stole ideas back in the ;ate 70's said so, right? I've been involved with this industry since the Magnavox Odyssey and can name you 6 machines launched in the US that I have never owned. I have quite a few still working. Granted I enjoy playing Utopia and Tron Deadly Discs and some of the unknown 5200 games like Countermeasure but the games just ,more or less, hold sentimental value . It would be like saying the Gren Bay Packer team that won Superbowl in their prime could compete in the NFL today...FlockofSpagheti

with all of this knowledge at your fingertips then it should be obvious how short a ways games have advanced...

It's like any other form of entertainment out there. The movie industry has been around for almost a century and how many original concept movies come out? You can take any populer genre and trace it back to one or two games, does that make the games now garbage? I can list all of the ancient school games I love, but I look forward to the new ones as well. I sill remember the rush I used to get when I played Impossible Mission on the Commodore 64 for the 1st time. I might not have the same passion now, but I still enjoy a good game...

Impossible Mission was amazing (never managed to finish it tho)... anyway I never said all games now are garbage because they are influenced by something older because everything now was influenced by something older... the thing is that just being "influenced" and directly rehashing and/or ripping off of are different extremes of the same concept and almost everyone does the latter nowadays. Also instead of being influenced by many ideas they are influenced by one... which almost guarantees ripping off.

There is a fine line between homage and rehash. I think devs just see something they like and incorporate it into the game. The game is just a vision created by the developer translated by the rest of his team. You can't diminish whenever someone does something new that wasn't in place before like Open End Environments and Bullet Time. I agree that the last gen more or less brought stronger emphasis on cinematics over gaming but there still were fun games...

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"]*goes to get Zack and Wiki*FlockofSpagheti

Zack and wiki is horribly unoriginal it is nothing but a rehash of adventure games... and guess what... those have barely changed since King's Quest 1 in the 80s...

I disagree. They have changed in the last decade or so: they've become far simpler, and far worse (generally speaking).

There is a fine line between homage and rehash. I think devs just see something they like and incorporate it into the game. The game is just a vision created by the developer translated by the rest of his team. You can't diminish whenever someone does something new that wasn't in place before like Open End Environments and Bullet Time. I agree that the last gen more or less brought stronger emphasis on cinematics over gaming but there still were fun games...

DXGreat1_HGL

actually these days games are the vision of a focus group and a money hungry publisher... it is sad but true. I do not diminish the creators of bullet time and open ended environments I am just angry with the people who have copied the ideas and made a bucketload of money doing it. in fact it is amazing that the 3-4 original games per year even exist given the odds...

also the only reason portal is selling right now... wait for it... is because it is packaged with Half Life...

FlockofSpagheti

Actually, it seems to be selling quite well on its own (currently selling more than CS: Source, Clive Barker's Jericho and Enemy Territory Quake Wars on Steam).
The fact that it's still selling relatively well, despite being in a very popular package, indicates that there's a genuine popular interest in the game - not just 'because it is packaged with Half Life'.

Oh come now that is just silly. Portal itself is an example of indie development being brought to the main stream. Not only that but the industry compared to movies, books, music and plays is extremely young. There isn't some conspiracy to keep companies like Blizzard and Bioware and Bungie at the top, they produce quality products that drive demand. The industry has only one place to go from here, and that is up.donny666

i find it scary then that at this young age the gaming industry has gone lower than any of those ever managed and in less time. the only thing that sells games nowadays is hype. now that works the same way with movies and books mostly but at least those have a chance to be cult hits (while when games die they vanish forever because no one is producing them).

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

also the only reason portal is selling right now... wait for it... is because it is packaged with Half Life...

Planeforger

Actually, it seems to be selling quite well on its own (currently selling more than CS: Source, Clive Barker's Jericho and Enemy Territory Quake Wars on Steam).
The fact that it's still selling relatively well, despite being in a very popular package, indicates that there's a genuine popular interest in the game - not just 'because it is packaged with Half Life'.

thats strange and pretty interesting but I would like to know where you found that it was selling better...

thats strange and pretty interesting but I would like to know where you found that it was selling better...

FlockofSpagheti

Steampowered.com - click the 'Top Sellers' tab. I'm guessing that those are only this week's/month's sales.

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

thats strange and pretty interesting but I would like to know where you found that it was selling better...

Planeforger

Steampowered.com - click the 'Top Sellers' tab. I'm guessing that those are only this week's/month's sales.

hmm thats interesting. I didnt know steam had that feature. but anyway the explanation for portal is that it got recognized and hyped because everyone knew they would be getting it for free in the orange box. that hype translated into slightly interested people only buying portal because of all the hype about it (directly due to people playing it from the orange box).

Games are starting to see the same effect the movie industry has been in for a very long time. Even if you think something is fresh and new its usually copied or inspired by a forgoten relic. The only thing you can do, is well, do something about it. Goto school get into the industry and try to change things with ideas you think are actually new.

This type of whining is really what makes things stagnate. To many people sitting areound just waiting for something to smack them in the face instead actually contributing to something they like.

I will not take the creator of pong seriously.XenoNinja

Me neither, especially since he flogged the idea from Magnavox.

I also doubt I could take the creator of Polychromatic Funk Monkey seriously.

Zack and wiki is horribly unoriginal it is nothing but a rehash of adventure games... and guess what... those have barely changed since King's Quest 1 in the 80s...

FlockofSpagheti

Obviously you haven't even played Zack and Wiki since it really isn't an adventure game.More like a puzzle/adventure hybrid