Gamesradar: PS3 piracy - it begins. First hacked game shown running on unmodded

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

with the amount effort and resources needed, it would be just easier to buy the damn game.

And as for the hackers who do this stuff and hide behind anti-piracy and fair use hang your head in shame. it wasnt cool when it happened in the ps2, 360 and its not cool now.

If gamers want to keep playing games they'll buy them, simples

USS_Data

Effort? Serious?

You take a USB stick and put custom firmware 3.55 on it, you install it on the PS3, then you download multimanager (needed to play games) and install it on the PS3. Finally you download a game, send it to your PS3 through FTP or copy it to an external HDD and voila done.

Yeah so much effort needed :roll:

Sony really needs to hire better software programmers, the bluray was the only thing that prevented piracy all that long, I recently downloaded the 3.55 update, it was 170 MB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where did all these bytes go? shoudn't they be preventing what is happening now?!!!

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

with the amount effort and resources needed, it would be just easier to buy the damn game.

And as for the hackers who do this stuff and hide behind anti-piracy and fair use hang your head in shame. it wasnt cool when it happened in the ps2, 360 and its not cool now.

If gamers want to keep playing games they'll buy them, simples

USS_Data

Effort? Serious?

You take a USB stick and put custom firmware 3.55 on it, you install it on the PS3, then you download multimanager (needed to play games) and install it on the PS3. Finally you download a game, send it to your PS3 through FTP or copy it to an external HDD and voila done.

Yeah so much effort needed :roll:

[QUOTE="USS_Data"]

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

with the amount effort and resources needed, it would be just easier to buy the damn game.

And as for the hackers who do this stuff and hide behind anti-piracy and fair use hang your head in shame. it wasnt cool when it happened in the ps2, 360 and its not cool now.

If gamers want to keep playing games they'll buy them, simples

Zaibach

Effort? Serious?

You take a USB stick and put custom firmware 3.55 on it, you install it on the PS3, then you download multimanager (needed to play games) and install it on the PS3. Finally you download a game, send it to your PS3 through FTP or copy it to an external HDD and voila done.

Yeah so much effort needed :roll:

It will cost you your soul though.

Sony should just pull a Microsoft

let them pirate the games, but just have a mass ban wave every year to keep everyone from pirating, worked for Microsoft did it not?

Sony should just pull a Microsoft

let them pirate the games, but just have a mass ban wave every year to keep everyone from pirating, worked for Microsoft did it not?

HaloinventedFPS

I believe they can change their console ID making bans pointless.

So it begins! Sony did a an amazing job getting this far though, 4 years without piracy is a good achievement. It was bound to happen sooner or later though.

[QUOTE="KevinPlanet"]

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]Welcome to the club PS3, the PSP has been warming a seat for you. I don't see the massive deal in the long run, it just means that Sony is finally in the same boat that MS and Nintendo have been in for years.Kashiwaba

You're missing the point. An Xbox 360, Wii, and a PSP need to be modded in order to play pirated games, with this hack a PS3 can play games without the need of being modded beforehand

Wii, 360, PSP and now PS3 all of them can run a pirated games through homebrews the only exception is DS which needs a special card to run the homebrew so that makes it all of them are on the same boat except DS :P.

I hope Sony fix these.. do some magical stuff then stop those stupid worthless pirates, all they do is giving us*paying costumers* more stuff to download

[QUOTE="USS_Data"]

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

with the amount effort and resources needed, it would be just easier to buy the damn game.

And as for the hackers who do this stuff and hide behind anti-piracy and fair use hang your head in shame. it wasnt cool when it happened in the ps2, 360 and its not cool now.

If gamers want to keep playing games they'll buy them, simples

HuusAsking

Effort? Serious?

You take a USB stick and put custom firmware 3.55 on it, you install it on the PS3, then you download multimanager (needed to play games) and install it on the PS3. Finally you download a game, send it to your PS3 through FTP or copy it to an external HDD and voila done.

Yeah so much effort needed :roll:

Nope the only thing the official 3.55 firmware disabled at the moment is the USB jailbreak stick. You can install the custom firmware over the official in a breeze.

Console gaming is dying.

FGMPR

[QUOTE="FGMPR"]

Console gaming is dying.

NWA90s

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

I wonder how I got constantly modded for bringing up the "E" word or even mentioning Piracy but there is a whole thread dedicated to it with people giving detailed explanations on how to pirate for the PS3 and the thread is still alive.

Yet just now I got modded for something I posted 5 days ago.......

Seems like I have a mod who hates me and lets everyone else off the hook.

Corruption is everywhere.....

Console gaming is dying.

FGMPR

[QUOTE="FGMPR"]

Console gaming is dying.

JohnF111

As i will say to pirates in the UK , i define you as a cheapass or someone who thinks everything has little to no value.I hate the effect it had on music with the widespread piracy of the last decade in that sector means even less labels are taking risks on bands even tho im not a fan of major labels the main top 40 has become sterile with mainstream pop and the odd really big rock band.

Piracy only has negative effects theres no upsides no justifications, and i personally think we should come down harder on it.I've seen a few bands barely making ends meet and best laugh is a few are better than some bands i have seen in an arena :S

razgriz_101

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]This is a quote from a guy over at that site tc posted. His quote is perfect. Rhybo "I made a ruckus about this on the last article... and figure that I might as well here too. *Begin rant* A few days out of the gate and GeoHot's crack has proved to be an effective tool for undermining healthy game development. Everyone who is saying that this isn't going to affect sales or bring down the industry you are right, but that's not the point. The point is that developers are now becoming discouraged at this current... development (hah! redundancy). They aren't going to be homeless but they sure as hell won't be excited to have their hot-off-the-press game be distributed for free. What does that mean? Maybe developers are now seeing the lucrative aspects of DLC and might only release games digitally whilst crushing my harddrive in the process. Perhaps we'd be ushered into an era where we never physically own games anymore but have to pay a yearly subscription fee in order for our games to playable at all. Who knows, maybe certain consoles will no longer receive any games to play since it's a compromised system. These are really off the wall conjectures that I doubt will happen, but if piracy puts a big enough dent in the money-making armor of (insert company here) profits, expect other avenues of distribution and sales to be explored. All that does is make it a pain in the ass for people like me who decide to conduct business in a legitimate manner. Also, let's not forget the fledgling developers trying to get a foot in the door and make a name for themselves. I'm sure they don't have nearly the level of security protecting their prospective cash-cow as Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do. This is going to discourage them from making orginal, entertaining, possibly revolutionary content (anyone hear of the story of Portal, Minecraft, or Counter-Strike?). All in all, if anyone is even awake to have read this far, it's hurting all of us. Creativity will be overlooked because who wants to dump their time and money into a project that will just end up free in the hands of idiots who don't appreciate the hard work of the people their ripping off? Piracy is taking time away from what matters in video games... entertainment. "How to not lose money" will be a larger bullet point in the development process than "Making a kick-ass game." In the long run I believe it's just stunting the growth of the industry and, personally, I'd like to see what wonders it can produce by the time I run out of 1-ups." *End rant*seabiscuit8686

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]This is a quote from a guy over at that site tc posted. His quote is perfect. Rhybo "I made a ruckus about this on the last article... and figure that I might as well here too. *Begin rant* A few days out of the gate and GeoHot's crack has proved to be an effective tool for undermining healthy game development. Everyone who is saying that this isn't going to affect sales or bring down the industry you are right, but that's not the point. The point is that developers are now becoming discouraged at this current... development (hah! redundancy). They aren't going to be homeless but they sure as hell won't be excited to have their hot-off-the-press game be distributed for free. What does that mean? Maybe developers are now seeing the lucrative aspects of DLC and might only release games digitally whilst crushing my harddrive in the process. Perhaps we'd be ushered into an era where we never physically own games anymore but have to pay a yearly subscription fee in order for our games to playable at all. Who knows, maybe certain consoles will no longer receive any games to play since it's a compromised system. These are really off the wall conjectures that I doubt will happen, but if piracy puts a big enough dent in the money-making armor of (insert company here) profits, expect other avenues of distribution and sales to be explored. All that does is make it a pain in the ass for people like me who decide to conduct business in a legitimate manner. Also, let's not forget the fledgling developers trying to get a foot in the door and make a name for themselves. I'm sure they don't have nearly the level of security protecting their prospective cash-cow as Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do. This is going to discourage them from making orginal, entertaining, possibly revolutionary content (anyone hear of the story of Portal, Minecraft, or Counter-Strike?). All in all, if anyone is even awake to have read this far, it's hurting all of us. Creativity will be overlooked because who wants to dump their time and money into a project that will just end up free in the hands of idiots who don't appreciate the hard work of the people their ripping off? Piracy is taking time away from what matters in video games... entertainment. "How to not lose money" will be a larger bullet point in the development process than "Making a kick-ass game." In the long run I believe it's just stunting the growth of the industry and, personally, I'd like to see what wonders it can produce by the time I run out of 1-ups." *End rant*TheMoreYouOwn

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]This is a quote from a guy over at that site tc posted. His quote is perfect. Rhybo "I made a ruckus about this on the last article... and figure that I might as well here too. *Begin rant* A few days out of the gate and GeoHot's crack has proved to be an effective tool for undermining healthy game development. Everyone who is saying that this isn't going to affect sales or bring down the industry you are right, but that's not the point. The point is that developers are now becoming discouraged at this current... development (hah! redundancy). They aren't going to be homeless but they sure as hell won't be excited to have their hot-off-the-press game be distributed for free. What does that mean? Maybe developers are now seeing the lucrative aspects of DLC and might only release games digitally whilst crushing my harddrive in the process. Perhaps we'd be ushered into an era where we never physically own games anymore but have to pay a yearly subscription fee in order for our games to playable at all. Who knows, maybe certain consoles will no longer receive any games to play since it's a compromised system. These are really off the wall conjectures that I doubt will happen, but if piracy puts a big enough dent in the money-making armor of (insert company here) profits, expect other avenues of distribution and sales to be explored. All that does is make it a pain in the ass for people like me who decide to conduct business in a legitimate manner. Also, let's not forget the fledgling developers trying to get a foot in the door and make a name for themselves. I'm sure they don't have nearly the level of security protecting their prospective cash-cow as Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do. This is going to discourage them from making orginal, entertaining, possibly revolutionary content (anyone hear of the story of Portal, Minecraft, or Counter-Strike?). All in all, if anyone is even awake to have read this far, it's hurting all of us. Creativity will be overlooked because who wants to dump their time and money into a project that will just end up free in the hands of idiots who don't appreciate the hard work of the people their ripping off? Piracy is taking time away from what matters in video games... entertainment. "How to not lose money" will be a larger bullet point in the development process than "Making a kick-ass game." In the long run I believe it's just stunting the growth of the industry and, personally, I'd like to see what wonders it can produce by the time I run out of 1-ups." *End rant*TheMoreYouOwn

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Rant is ridiculous. Minecraft is pirate-able and yet sells insanely well. Why? Because most people view $10-$15 out of pocket as justified. Also the effort to "insert what is necessary to pirate" is greater than the $10-$15 cost. Black Ops is the most pirated because people don't want to pay $60 for a game that they pretty much had last year and the year before and the year before and then have to pay $15 for new maps...and NEVER see a price drop. Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle.delta3074

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Rant is ridiculous. Minecraft is pirate-able and yet sells insanely well. Why? Because most people view $10-$15 out of pocket as justified. Also the effort to "insert what is necessary to pirate" is greater than the $10-$15 cost. Black Ops is the most pirated because people don't want to pay $60 for a game that they pretty much had last year and the year before and the year before and then have to pay $15 for new maps...and NEVER see a price drop. Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle.Birdy09

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

So you would consider youself a petty thief and not a grand theft auto type? Gotcha.

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

TheMoreYouOwn

So you would consider youself a petty thief and not a grand theft auto type? Gotcha.

Not condoning what they are doing.. But its not the same.. What pirates are doing is committing intellectual property theft.. Closer to something likeplagiarism then grand theft.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

TheMoreYouOwn

When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Oh god,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the "You wouldnt steal a car, so why download a film" defense... oh please... if I and millions of others could download a godamn car we would.sSubZerOo

So you would consider youself a petty thief and not a grand theft auto type? Gotcha.

Not condoning what they are doing.. But its not the same.. What pirates are doing is committing intellectual property theft.. Closer to something likeplagiarism then grand theft.

sadly your silly little consoles charge 40-45 for neww games that last 10 hours, I cant be dealing with that, so unfortunatly they get nothing in those situations either way.Birdy09

this is true, if console games cost the same as PC versions then buying the game would be easier to stomach, as it stands here in blighty, you pay nearly twice as much for a console game over it's PC counterpart

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]sadly your silly little consoles charge 40-45 for neww games that last 10 hours, I cant be dealing with that, so unfortunatly they get nothing in those situations either way.delta3074

this is true, if console games cost the same as PC versions then buying the game would be easier to stomach, as it stands here in blighty, you pay nearly twice as much for a console game over it's PC counterpart

Then again your also able to trade in that game.. And there is a actual used game market..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

So you would consider youself a petty thief and not a grand theft auto type? Gotcha.

Birdy09

Not condoning what they are doing.. But its not the same.. What pirates are doing is committing intellectual property theft.. Closer to something likeplagiarism then grand theft.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]if they actually made games that where worth what they charge then i could agree with you,a maserati is worth the asking price, a lot of games are not really worth there asking price, besides, developers are paid a set wage, they don't get there wages docked just because a game gets pirated x amount, they don't get a pay rise if it doesn't, they get paid the same amount either way, the only people you hit when pirating games are the shareholders, stockholders and high level execs, people who most likely are millionaires or damned close.delta3074

When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.

First off, I never said cut in wages. You made that part up. And second, I don't know if you work on a salary, or from what country you are from (I'm guessing UK), but I'm speaking from the point of someone working in the US. I can't imagine that you've never heard of a "raise" before. You really think anyone who works on salary, is stuck at their starting salary and it never goes up? That's insane and that's not what happens. You are evaluated every year, depending on your performance through out the past year, and if budget allows, you have the opportunity to increase your salary. You may have specialized in contract law, but have you actually been out in the working field for any length of time and on a salary? I have. For the past 13 years, so I know how the process works, and I know what happens when numbers aren't met.

Edit: I am sorry if this sounds like a continuous rant, but the whole pirate thing does affect me and numerous collegues of mine personally, so it does frustrate and sadden us.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]if they actually made games that where worth what they charge then i could agree with you,a maserati is worth the asking price, a lot of games are not really worth there asking price, besides, developers are paid a set wage, they don't get there wages docked just because a game gets pirated x amount, they don't get a pay rise if it doesn't, they get paid the same amount either way, the only people you hit when pirating games are the shareholders, stockholders and high level execs, people who most likely are millionaires or damned close.delta3074

When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.

Maybe one day I could play pirated games online with the ps3.

Until then I'm legal

Maybe one day I could play pirated games online with the ps3.

Until then I'm legal

mamkem6

I suspect within the year PS3 games will be as easy to pirate as Wii games. That didn't stop Nintendo from being successful, in fact PS3s will probably start selling better in third world countries.

hypoty

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.

TheMoreYouOwn

First off, I never said cut in wages. You made that part up. And second, I don't know if you work on a salary, or from what country you are from (I'm guessing UK), but I'm speaking from the point of someone working in the US. I can't imagine that you've never heard of a "raise" before. You really think anyone who works on salary, is stuck at their starting salary and it never goes up? That's insane and that's not what happens. You are evaluated every year, depending on your performance through out the past year, and if budget allows, you have the opportunity to increase your salary. You may have specialized in contract law, but have you actually been out in the working field for any length of time and on a salary? I have. For the past 13 years, so I know how the process works, and I know what happens when numbers aren't met.

Edit: I am sorry if this sounds like a continuous rant, but the whole pirate thing does affect me and numerous collegues of mine personally, so it does frustrate and sadden us.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]When you say a developer doesn't get their wages docked, you are talking about dozens and dozens of individuals (ever stick around and watch the credits roll after a game ends.) Every single one of those folks who did their part in the development process isn't some 6 figured fat cat. And guess what, while salaries are set, maybe that year, the corporate office decides that they have to cut back on raises, or hault them entirely. Or maybe the budget for upgrades in computer hardware or software has to be put on hold because numbers weren't met. Or maybe there was room to hire on a dozen more, and now there's not anymore. You say a Maserati is worth the price tag, but $60 games aren't? For you, perhaps so, but you don't get to call the shots on what the price tag is. You get to decide whether or not it's worth it to you to buy. And I say all this, because I've gone throught it, and I have numerous friends (including my best man at my wedding and his wife) who work in the industry and also feel the pirate sting.HuusAsking

I had a lengthy discussion about pirating with someone recently and to me, the industry needs to be concerned about it but more so needs to do its best to give people who would be willing to pay better oppurtunity to do so. Pirating is an issue of morals, its not an issue of caring about people's work, hurting big business etc. Its simple, if you are suspose to pay for it and you don't, do you feel morally bad about that? The fact of it being material or digital is not extremely relevant to the point because either way, its not yours to take. Piracy as an excuse because of price is wrong, its not your "right" to anything if you don't give people what they are owed. You can't afford something, you don't get it, I don't see why that's a difficult concept.

As for devs, from what I could grasp, they are paid in fixed amounts per title yes but they also are on contractual work which means that every potential person who might have purchased their title (I have no claims on numbers other then logically atleast a few exist) who pirated it is one less tally in their games total units sold and as a company, it would make sense that if you can create titles that sell, you will have an easier time finding better jobs and higher paying publishers. Pirating hurts the industry, I don't personally hold anything against those who pirate because a lot of them wouldn't have bought the game if piracy wasn't around and I'm not morally perfect so who am I to judge but to deny its affect is misguided. I still think that if games were more easily accessible for purchase to younger age groups, piracy would not have as big a place.

I know many people who pirate simply because its too difficult to get outto a storepurchase games and online titles require credit card information (or paypal, not sure) and many parents are simply not going to let their kids use their credit card or those avenues.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="delta3074"]they can't cut devs wages below the minimum legal wage, and you agree a salary when you sign the contract for the job which is a legally binding contract of employment, to change your salary legally they would have to issue you with a new contract of employment which in this country requires a minimum of 3 months notice and costs a ton for the employer through lega fee's, i know i specialised in contract law at college and had the pleasure of tesco's trying to 'renegotiate' my contract when i worked for them, it's not just as simple as saying 'we didn't earn that much this year, you will get paid less' secondly i didn't say that all games are not worth the 40 quid (75 dolars) price tag, a lot are, especially open world and sandbox games, but rehashes like COD black ops with very short offline campaigns simply are not worth the asking price, bought darkstar one the other day, already had 20 hours out of the game and i am roughly half way through, thats good bang for your buck at 40 quid, 45 quid for a 5 hour campaign and repetitive online just isn't worth it imo. Darkstar one = 1 quid an hour campaign Black ops=10 quid an hour campaigndelta3074

I've been under the assumption that to avoid that law, they offer a set salary and bonuses are awarded on performance. Its essentially the same thing but worded differently. If your title sucks in retail, we pay you minimal but not less, if its great, then you can get more money. Otherwise, what exactly is the advantage of making a excellent selling title if you're paid the same either way?

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]they can't cut devs wages below the minimum legal wage, and you agree a salary when you sign the contract for the job which is a legally binding contract of employment, to change your salary legally they would have to issue you with a new contract of employment which in this country requires a minimum of 3 months notice and costs a ton for the employer through lega fee's, i know i specialised in contract law at college and had the pleasure of tesco's trying to 'renegotiate' my contract when i worked for them, it's not just as simple as saying 'we didn't earn that much this year, you will get paid less' secondly i didn't say that all games are not worth the 40 quid (75 dolars) price tag, a lot are, especially open world and sandbox games, but rehashes like COD black ops with very short offline campaigns simply are not worth the asking price, bought darkstar one the other day, already had 20 hours out of the game and i am roughly half way through, thats good bang for your buck at 40 quid, 45 quid for a 5 hour campaign and repetitive online just isn't worth it imo. Darkstar one = 1 quid an hour campaign Black ops=10 quid an hour campaigndelta3074

First off, I never said cut in wages. You made that part up. And second, I don't know if you work on a salary, or from what country you are from (I'm guessing UK), but I'm speaking from the point of someone working in the US. I can't imagine that you've never heard of a "raise" before. You really think anyone who works on salary, is stuck at their starting salary and it never goes up? That's insane and that's not what happens. You are evaluated every year, depending on your performance through out the past year, and if budget allows, you have the opportunity to increase your salary. You may have specialized in contract law, but have you actually been out in the working field for any length of time and on a salary? I have. For the past 13 years, so I know how the process works, and I know what happens when numbers aren't met.

Edit: I am sorry if this sounds like a continuous rant, but the whole pirate thing does affect me and numerous collegues of mine personally, so it does frustrate and sadden us.

I'm not gonna say I wouldn't mind paying lower prices either, but I mean, you do have the option of waiting until the price drops. I do this on occassion, depending on how badly I want to play a game or not. I mean, I just last month picked up Killzone 2. It's just that I hear the "price is too high so gonna pirate" line a lot, but very few seem to realize that those who simply work on the title don't set the price. It's not the development team that sits down in a conference room and says "Ok guys. $60, right?" No. They show up to work, animate, light, texture, code some expressions, rigg some skeletons or tweak some motion cap,etc. and that's it. They have no say in what the price of the game is in the end, but they always get lumped into the same crowd as the "greedy corporates who wanna steal the consumers money." Just isn't right. Still ranting, I know.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

First off, I never said cut in wages. You made that part up. And second, I don't know if you work on a salary, or from what country you are from (I'm guessing UK), but I'm speaking from the point of someone working in the US. I can't imagine that you've never heard of a "raise" before. You really think anyone who works on salary, is stuck at their starting salary and it never goes up? That's insane and that's not what happens. You are evaluated every year, depending on your performance through out the past year, and if budget allows, you have the opportunity to increase your salary. You may have specialized in contract law, but have you actually been out in the working field for any length of time and on a salary? I have. For the past 13 years, so I know how the process works, and I know what happens when numbers aren't met.

Edit: I am sorry if this sounds like a continuous rant, but the whole pirate thing does affect me and numerous collegues of mine personally, so it does frustrate and sadden us.

TheMoreYouOwn

I'm not gonna say I wouldn't mind paying lower prices either, but I mean, you do have the option of waiting until the price drops. I do this on occassion, depending on how badly I want to play a game or not. I mean, I just last month picked up Killzone 2. It's just that I hear the "price is too high so gonna pirate" line a lot, but very few seem to realize that those who simply work on the title don't set the price. It's not the development team that sits down in a conference room and says "Ok guys. $60, right?" No. They show up to work, animate, light, texture, code some expressions, rigg some skeletons or tweak some motion cap,etc. and that's it. They have no say in what the price of the game is in the end, but they always get lumped into the same crowd as the "greedy corporates who wanna steal the consumers money." Just isn't right. Still ranting, I know.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't contracts have terms and conditions in order to obtain such-and-such salary?ActicEdge

I've been under the assumption that to avoid that law, they offer a set salary and bonuses are awarded on performance. Its essentially the same thing but worded differently. If your title sucks in retail, we pay you minimal but not less, if its great, then you can get more money. Otherwise, what exactly is the advantage of making a excellent selling title if you're paid the same either way?

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="AncientDozer"]Also, I know piracy is the big boogie man, the scapegoat, the favorite target, but I hardly think it's as big or significant in the so-called "demise" of PC gaming or any market. Then again, it's a very complex issue with no simple answers or explanations. HuusAsking

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="dc337"] It has changed the pc gaming market, just look at the success of MMOs. If Crysis had sold the number of copies that were pirated there would be no Crysis 2 for consoles. Let's not forget that the CEO was a dedicated pc gamer until seeing how bad Crysis was pirated.

xYamatox

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="dc337"] It has changed the pc gaming market, just look at the success of MMOs. If Crysis had sold the number of copies that were pirated there would be no Crysis 2 for consoles. Let's not forget that the CEO was a dedicated pc gamer until seeing how bad Crysis was pirated.

xYamatox

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

Regardless of how you spin it, he's right, you just don't know if they were going to buy it so there is no reason to put a number to it. People steal and pirate things because they have interest in them, it doesn't at all mean they would have gotten it legitimately if they had no other choice. Not eceryone values games enough to spend 60 bucks on them regardless of whether they were "interested. Your what if situation is unrealistic because there is virtually never a time where change in circumstance leads to 100% of the people going an alternative route. And guess what, I can pirate tons of games with very little effort off of my schools free running download service. Howvever, I don't download them at all because I feel that if I want to play it, I should do it legally and or atleast with fair intentions. Not everybody has the same morals, you shouldn't assume otherwise.

Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle.seabiscuit8686

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But the thing is, it's hard to convert a piracy to a sale. Many piracies are simply of the "I'll play it 'cause it's free" mentality. If unable to play it for free, they wouldn't buy it and instead find another target. Others are using piracies as secondary copies because their first copies are giving them fits (one reason DRM can backfire on a publisher--false positives can really...hurt). Most people are turning multiplat simply for reasons of risk diversification and audience expansion. Indies don't carry as much risk because of their smaller budgets, and of course the console makers have monetary interest in exclusives. Some exclusives like Yakuza are for geographic reasons (the PS3's penetration in Japan is stronger than in the US), but most (like MGS4) are sponsored.-Snooze-

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

Please explain how my arguement is horrible? I'm not talking about games people only find "meh", I'm talking about ALL games.

For example: Take your favorite PS3 game. Now, if the option to pirate it was there, why would you even bother buying it in the first place when you can get the game for free? There's the problem. It's not about, "Oh, I only pirate games that I have no interest in buying" it's, "I pirate games", and THAT'S the problem.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But the thing is, it's hard to convert a piracy to a sale. Many piracies are simply of the "I'll play it 'cause it's free" mentality. If unable to play it for free, they wouldn't buy it and instead find another target. Others are using piracies as secondary copies because their first copies are giving them fits (one reason DRM can backfire on a publisher--false positives can really...hurt). Most people are turning multiplat simply for reasons of risk diversification and audience expansion. Indies don't carry as much risk because of their smaller budgets, and of course the console makers have monetary interest in exclusives. Some exclusives like Yakuza are for geographic reasons (the PS3's penetration in Japan is stronger than in the US), but most (like MGS4) are sponsored.ActicEdge

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

Regardless of how you spin it, he's right, you just don't know if they were going to buy it so there is no reason to put a number to it. People steal and pirate things because they have interest in them, it doesn't at all mean they would have gotten it legitimately if they had no other choice. Not eceryone values games enough to spend 60 bucks on them regardless of whether they were "interested. Your what if situation is unrealistic because there is virtually never a time where change in circumstance leads to 100% of the people going an alternative route. And guess what, I can pirate tons of games with very little effort off of my schools free running download service. Howvever, I don't download them at all because I feel that if I want to play it, I should do it legally and or atleast with fair intentions. Not everybody has the same morals, you shouldn't assume otherwise.

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.