Gamesradar: PS3 piracy - it begins. First hacked game shown running on unmodded

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

xYamatox

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

Please explain how my arguement is horrible? I'm not talking about games people only find "meh", I'm talking about ALL games.

For example: Take your favorite PS3 game. Now, if the option to pirate it was there, why would you even bother buying it in the first place when you can get the game for free? There's the problem. It's not about, "Oh, I only pirate games that I have no interest in buying" it's, "I pirate games", and THAT'S the problem.

You're argument was

"Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?"

Which is incorrect. There's tons of game I have zero interest in. I wouldnt even buy them on sale, but i'd sure as hell play them if they were free if only for 20 minutes.

IfI had the chance to pirate Demons Souls, would I have? No, it was only £30 imported. I want the game, and feel it's worth the price, not paying for it would be wrong, imo.

Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle. seabiscuit8686

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

xYamatox

Regardless of how you spin it, he's right, you just don't know if they were going to buy it so there is no reason to put a number to it. People steal and pirate things because they have interest in them, it doesn't at all mean they would have gotten it legitimately if they had no other choice. Not eceryone values games enough to spend 60 bucks on them regardless of whether they were "interested. Your what if situation is unrealistic because there is virtually never a time where change in circumstance leads to 100% of the people going an alternative route. And guess what, I can pirate tons of games with very little effort off of my schools free running download service. Howvever, I don't download them at all because I feel that if I want to play it, I should do it legally and or atleast with fair intentions. Not everybody has the same morals, you shouldn't assume otherwise.

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.

This isn't against you or your debate at the moment. Just an article from Gamepro, since you were talking about "Loss of Sales within piracy." 2007, US Software industry $3 billions lost, and not including internet piracy. A good read.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/215976/the-cost-of-piracy/

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

-Snooze-

Please explain how my arguement is horrible? I'm not talking about games people only find "meh", I'm talking about ALL games.

For example: Take your favorite PS3 game. Now, if the option to pirate it was there, why would you even bother buying it in the first place when you can get the game for free? There's the problem. It's not about, "Oh, I only pirate games that I have no interest in buying" it's, "I pirate games", and THAT'S the problem.

You're argument was

"Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?"

Which is incorrect. There's tons of game I have zero interest in. I wouldnt even buy them on sale, but i'd sure as hell play them if they were free if only for 20 minutes.

IfI had the chance to pirate Demons Souls, would I have? No, it was only £30 imported. I want the game, and feel it's worth the price,not paying for it would be wrong, imo.

This is why YOUR argument is horrible. I don't pirate anything, period. I buy all my media, whether it be games, music, or movies. However, just because I don't pirate things that I want, doesn't mean other don't. You may feel buying Demon's Souls is justifiable because you like the game, but who are you to say everyone else shares that same mentality? Do you honestly think there aren't TONS of people out there who wouldn't pay for the game, even if they would have bough it otherwise?

It took them a whole week to download the game hu? this hack will succeed.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle. babyeatermax

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

Please explain how my arguement is horrible? I'm not talking about games people only find "meh", I'm talking about ALL games.

For example: Take your favorite PS3 game. Now, if the option to pirate it was there, why would you even bother buying it in the first place when you can get the game for free? There's the problem. It's not about, "Oh, I only pirate games that I have no interest in buying" it's, "I pirate games", and THAT'S the problem.

xYamatox

You're argument was

"Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?"

Which is incorrect. There's tons of game I have zero interest in. I wouldnt even buy them on sale, but i'd sure as hell play them if they were free if only for 20 minutes.

IfI had the chance to pirate Demons Souls, would I have? No, it was only £30 imported. I want the game, and feel it's worth the price,not paying for it would be wrong, imo.

This is why YOUR argument is horrible. I don't pirate anything, period. I buy all my media, whether it be games, music, or movies. However, just because I don't pirate things that I want, doesn't mean other don't. You may feel buying Demon's Souls is justifiable because you like the game, but who are you to say everyone else shares that same mentality? Do you honestly think there aren't TONS of people out there who wouldn't pay for the game, even if they would have bough it otherwise?

You're putting words in my mouth. I have no argument besides yours being wrong.

I'm sure tons of people would pirate all there games if they could, however, it doesn't mean every download is a lost sales. Which is only an argument against publishers using those numbers as lost profit. It's not defending piracy.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

You're argument was

"Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?"

Which is incorrect. There's tons of game I have zero interest in. I wouldnt even buy them on sale, but i'd sure as hell play them if they were free if only for 20 minutes.

IfI had the chance to pirate Demons Souls, would I have? No, it was only £30 imported. I want the game, and feel it's worth the price,not paying for it would be wrong, imo.

-Snooze-

This is why YOUR argument is horrible. I don't pirate anything, period. I buy all my media, whether it be games, music, or movies. However, just because I don't pirate things that I want, doesn't mean other don't. You may feel buying Demon's Souls is justifiable because you like the game, but who are you to say everyone else shares that same mentality? Do you honestly think there aren't TONS of people out there who wouldn't pay for the game, even if they would have bough it otherwise?

You're putting words in my mouth. I have no argument besides yours being wrong.

I'm sure tons of people would pirate all there games if they could, however, it doesn't mean every download is a lost sales. Which is only an argument against publishers using those numbers as lost profit. It's not defending piracy.

While I may have put words in your mouth, my point still stands, and you have yet to actually prove ANYTHING I said wrong, other than people only pirate games they are interested in (which isn't even the point at hand).

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

This is why YOUR argument is horrible. I don't pirate anything, period. I buy all my media, whether it be games, music, or movies. However, just because I don't pirate things that I want, doesn't mean other don't. You may feel buying Demon's Souls is justifiable because you like the game, but who are you to say everyone else shares that same mentality? Do you honestly think there aren't TONS of people out there who wouldn't pay for the game, even if they would have bough it otherwise?

xYamatox

You're putting words in my mouth. I have no argument besides yours being wrong.

I'm sure tons of people would pirate all there games if they could, however, it doesn't mean every download is a lost sales. Which is only an argument against publishers using those numbers as lost profit. It's not defending piracy.

While I may have put words in your mouth, my point still stands, and you have yet to actually prove ANYTHING I said wrong, other than people only pirate games they are interested in (which isn't even the point at hand).

The only point I was concerned with was that one, as it was incorrect. I wasn't arguing morality or anything, just that you don't have to be interested in a game to accept it if you cna get it free.

Hell, i'd go and see the Jonas Brother if it were free.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]This is a quote from a guy over at that site tc posted. His quote is perfect. Rhybo "I made a ruckus about this on the last article... and figure that I might as well here too. *Begin rant* A few days out of the gate and GeoHot's crack has proved to be an effective tool for undermining healthy game development. Everyone who is saying that this isn't going to affect sales or bring down the industry you are right, but that's not the point. The point is that developers are now becoming discouraged at this current... development (hah! redundancy). They aren't going to be homeless but they sure as hell won't be excited to have their hot-off-the-press game be distributed for free. What does that mean? Maybe developers are now seeing the lucrative aspects of DLC and might only release games digitally whilst crushing my harddrive in the process. Perhaps we'd be ushered into an era where we never physically own games anymore but have to pay a yearly subscription fee in order for our games to playable at all. Who knows, maybe certain consoles will no longer receive any games to play since it's a compromised system. These are really off the wall conjectures that I doubt will happen, but if piracy puts a big enough dent in the money-making armor of (insert company here) profits, expect other avenues of distribution and sales to be explored. All that does is make it a pain in the ass for people like me who decide to conduct business in a legitimate manner. Also, let's not forget the fledgling developers trying to get a foot in the door and make a name for themselves. I'm sure they don't have nearly the level of security protecting their prospective cash-cow as Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do. This is going to discourage them from making orginal, entertaining, possibly revolutionary content (anyone hear of the story of Portal, Minecraft, or Counter-Strike?). All in all, if anyone is even awake to have read this far, it's hurting all of us. Creativity will be overlooked because who wants to dump their time and money into a project that will just end up free in the hands of idiots who don't appreciate the hard work of the people their ripping off? Piracy is taking time away from what matters in video games... entertainment. "How to not lose money" will be a larger bullet point in the development process than "Making a kick-ass game." In the long run I believe it's just stunting the growth of the industry and, personally, I'd like to see what wonders it can produce by the time I run out of 1-ups." *End rant*TheMoreYouOwn

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

You're putting words in my mouth. I have no argument besides yours being wrong.

I'm sure tons of people would pirate all there games if they could, however, it doesn't mean every download is a lost sales. Which is only an argument against publishers using those numbers as lost profit. It's not defending piracy.

-Snooze-

While I may have put words in your mouth, my point still stands, and you have yet to actually prove ANYTHING I said wrong, other than people only pirate games they are interested in (which isn't even the point at hand).

The only point I was concerned with was that one, as it was incorrect. I wasn't arguing morality or anything, just that you don't have to be interested in a game to accept it if you cna get it free.

Hell, i'd go and see the Jonas Brother if it were free.

...so your goal the whole time was to disprove a statement made that was hardly part of the overall conversation at hand?

Congrats I guess.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

So you would consider youself a petty thief and not a grand theft auto type? Gotcha.

Birdy09

Not condoning what they are doing.. But its not the same.. What pirates are doing is committing intellectual property theft.. Closer to something likeplagiarism then grand theft.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Rant is ridiculous. Minecraft is pirate-able and yet sells insanely well. Why? Because most people view $10-$15 out of pocket as justified. Also the effort to "insert what is necessary to pirate" is greater than the $10-$15 cost. Black Ops is the most pirated because people don't want to pay $60 for a game that they pretty much had last year and the year before and the year before and then have to pay $15 for new maps...and NEVER see a price drop. Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle.seabiscuit8686

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

I'll wave to you from my couch as I'm watching "Cops." Don't drop the soap.

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

While I may have put words in your mouth, my point still stands, and you have yet to actually prove ANYTHING I said wrong, other than people only pirate games they are interested in (which isn't even the point at hand).

xYamatox

The only point I was concerned with was that one, as it was incorrect. I wasn't arguing morality or anything, just that you don't have to be interested in a game to accept it if you cna get it free.

Hell, i'd go and see the Jonas Brother if it were free.

...so your goal the whole time was to disprove a statement made that was hardly part of the overall conversation at hand?

Congrats I guess.

It was a third of your post and you called it a fact.

There's really no need for the sarcasm. Just don't post crap?

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle. babyeatermax

Why doesn't Sony just take legal action against these hackers? Surely what they're doing is against the law?

Hackers piss me off. They honestly think they're powerful beings because of what they do. Look at those retarded DOS attacks that occurred after the whole Wikileaks situation. The big, bad hackers thought they could take down Amazon and boy did they fail miserably at it.

I hope Sony sues these guys for a million just for being internet tough guys.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

TheMoreYouOwn

I'll wave to you from my couch as I'm watching "Cops." Don't drop the soap.

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"][QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle. Birdy09

Console gaming is dying.

FGMPR

Why doesn't Sony just take legal action against these hackers? Surely what they're doing is against the law?

Hackers piss me off. They honestly think they're powerful beings because of what they do. Look at those retarded DOS attacks that occurred after the whole Wikileaks situation. The big, bad hackers thought they could take down Amazon and boy did they fail miserably at it.

I hope Sony sues these guys for a million just for being internet tough guys.

MichaelToreno

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Which has more quality? Maserati or Ford Focus? Which has more features. More HP. More....EVERYTHING. If a Focus cost $120,000, then yes, I would say go and bloody steal it because you can get the Maserati for the same and it is actually worth it. seabiscuit8686

I'll wave to you from my couch as I'm watching "Cops." Don't drop the soap.

It's not the buying it people have a problem with, it's everything leading up to that.

Downloading it, trying it, liking it, keeping it. THAT'S the problem.

You can't stop it, no matter how many of the 6 billion people on earth you prosecuteseabiscuit8686

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Which has more quality? Maserati or Ford Focus? Which has more features. More HP. More....EVERYTHING. If a Focus cost $120,000, then yes, I would say go and bloody steal it because you can get the Maserati for the same and it is actually worth it. seabiscuit8686

I'll wave to you from my couch as I'm watching "Cops." Don't drop the soap.

Really? Downloading it. Trying it. Then buying it. Sounds like what "Demos" are for. Nice try, though.

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] You can't stop it, no matter how many of the 6 billion people on earth you prosecutefoxhound_fox

You can't stop anyone from breaking the law, but you sure as heck can give a huge chunk of people more than enough reasons not to do so.

You can't stop anyone from breaking the law, but you sure as heck can give a huge chunk of people more than enough reasons not to do so.

xYamatox

True, though the costs could be quite large. Though, no doubt larger corporations have lawyers for this kind of situation on retainer :P

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

xYamatox

Regardless of how you spin it, he's right, you just don't know if they were going to buy it so there is no reason to put a number to it. People steal and pirate things because they have interest in them, it doesn't at all mean they would have gotten it legitimately if they had no other choice. Not eceryone values games enough to spend 60 bucks on them regardless of whether they were "interested. Your what if situation is unrealistic because there is virtually never a time where change in circumstance leads to 100% of the people going an alternative route. And guess what, I can pirate tons of games with very little effort off of my schools free running download service. Howvever, I don't download them at all because I feel that if I want to play it, I should do it legally and or atleast with fair intentions. Not everybody has the same morals, you shouldn't assume otherwise.

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Regardless of how you spin it, he's right, you just don't know if they were going to buy it so there is no reason to put a number to it. People steal and pirate things because they have interest in them, it doesn't at all mean they would have gotten it legitimately if they had no other choice. Not eceryone values games enough to spend 60 bucks on them regardless of whether they were "interested. Your what if situation is unrealistic because there is virtually never a time where change in circumstance leads to 100% of the people going an alternative route. And guess what, I can pirate tons of games with very little effort off of my schools free running download service. Howvever, I don't download them at all because I feel that if I want to play it, I should do it legally and or atleast with fair intentions. Not everybody has the same morals, you shouldn't assume otherwise.

ActicEdge

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But the thing is, it's hard to convert a piracy to a sale. Many piracies are simply of the "I'll play it 'cause it's free" mentality. If unable to play it for free, they wouldn't buy it and instead find another target. Others are using piracies as secondary copies because their first copies are giving them fits (one reason DRM can backfire on a publisher--false positives can really...hurt). Most people are turning multiplat simply for reasons of risk diversification and audience expansion. Indies don't carry as much risk because of their smaller budgets, and of course the console makers have monetary interest in exclusives. Some exclusives like Yakuza are for geographic reasons (the PS3's penetration in Japan is stronger than in the US), but most (like MGS4) are sponsored.-Snooze-

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

I absolutly hate this arguement, because it is 100% a "What if" situation. Here's the fact of the matter: If someone pirated a game, it's because that person had interest in playing the game, period. Why else would someone play something they don't have any interest in?

However, if you want to play "what if's", what if every single pirated copy of a game WOULD have converted to a sale if piracy wasn't possible? Do you honestly think someone would buy a game they want if the option to get it for free is there? Let's be real here. :roll:

HuusAsking

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

I never said interest in a game = sale, I said people pirate games they are interested in. I doubt anyone here would pirate a Barbie game if they have no interest in playing it (then again, there are some sick people in this world... :| )

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.

xYamatox

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

WHat you're saying puts just as much faith as my does. You're right, you CAN'T put a number on pirated copies. In that same light, it's not a good arguement FOR Piracy, because it has the same effects. How do you know it doesn't effect a mass number of sales? based on your very arguement, you don't. However, we can all be pretty darn sure that there ARE loss of sales within piracy, so the arguement still isn't sound.

xYamatox

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

Duh it leads to some lost sales, absolutely no one is saying otherwise :|

And really, its business, its not about anything other then making money, who cares whether people like or dislike your product?

But realistically, go to a developing country, everything is pirated goods. When the average daily salary is a dollar a day, you think most of the world can afford to buy non pirated goods? Actually, do you even know that there is virtually no non pirated items available? Did you know that the markets for non pirated goods are so small they would lose money? You reasoning is incredibly flawed and not in tune with the reality which is, if the ratio of piracy is 1:1000000000000 and you don't care and want it eliminated, you should never ever be allowed to run or be in charge of a company. You'll sink it in record time. It absolutely does matter what the ratio is.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

I have interest in playing lots of games, i'm not going to buy them though ... You're argument is horrible.

I have no interest in Yakuza, but if itwas free i'd play it

xYamatox

I never said interest in a game = sale, I said people pirate games they are interested in. I doubt anyone here would pirate a Barbie game if they have no interest in playing it (then again, there are some sick people in this world... :| )

For those of you arguing the issue against Piracy, I feel for you. I used to be a pirate myself, used to collect software like baseball cards and knew a ton of people what were the same as me. Then one day I grew up and accepted no matter how much I tried to justify it I was lying to myself and I had know it all along and just didn't want to admit it.

For those of you arguing the issue against Piracy, I feel for you. I used to be a pirate myself, used to collect software like baseball cards and knew a ton of people what were the same as me. Then one day I grew up and accepted no matter how much I tried to justify it I was lying to myself and I had know it all along and just didn't want to admit it.

rgsniper1

If only more had the same mentality as you, sir.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

HuusAsking

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

I know perfectly well about diminishing returns. It doesn't change the fact that pirating games has a ripple effect on the industry as a whole. I wouldn't give a crap if game companies didn't make 50% of the their product being used (throwing out fictional numbers), if I knew it wouldn't effect game devs. People have this misconception that every single person who takes part in creating a video game, movie, or song is a millionaire, when the reality of the situation is anything but.

Then there's the issue with new game devs trying to make a name for themselves. If these guys don't make money on their game, it could completely break them from ever being able to work on another project again. Diminishing Returns works in this situation as well.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

What I'm saying is actually not putting faith on anything. Not all pirates would buy games if they weren't piratable. That's just common sense, I'm not quantifying the number because I legitimately don't know. I'm also not arguing for piracy, I'm saying that piracy while a problem is not one that can be realistically translated into a number so how exactly can you use the argument you were using? I also never said piracy does not lead to loss of sales because it certainlu does, I'm saying your reverse logic to the previous point is logically wrong. Not that piracy doesn't scale to decrease sales.

ActicEdge

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

Duh it leads to some lost sales, absolutely no one is saying otherwise :|

And really, its business, its not about anything other then making money, who cares whether people like or dislike your product?

But realistically, go to a developing country, everything is pirated goods. When the average daily salary is a dollar a day, you think most of the world can afford to buy non pirated goods? Actually, do you even know that there is virtually no non pirated items available? Did you know that the markets for non pirated goods are so small they would lose money? You reasoning is incredibly flawed and not in tune with the reality which is, if the ratio of piracy is 1:1000000000000 and you don't care and want it eliminated, you should never ever be allowed to run or be in charge of a company. You'll sink it in record time. It absolutely does matter what the ratio is.

Tell that to future game devs who are denied their game title by publishers because, "If it ain't CoD, it ain't gonna sell".

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

xYamatox

Duh it leads to some lost sales, absolutely no one is saying otherwise :|

And really, its business, its not about anything other then making money, who cares whether people like or dislike your product?

But realistically, go to a developing country, everything is pirated goods. When the average daily salary is a dollar a day, you think most of the world can afford to buy non pirated goods? Actually, do you even know that there is virtually no non pirated items available? Did you know that the markets for non pirated goods are so small they would lose money? You reasoning is incredibly flawed and not in tune with the reality which is, if the ratio of piracy is 1:1000000000000 and you don't care and want it eliminated, you should never ever be allowed to run or be in charge of a company. You'll sink it in record time. It absolutely does matter what the ratio is.

Tell that to future game devs who are denied their game title by publishers because, "If it ain't CoD, it ain't gonna sell".

COD got pirated loads, still sold a ton ...

Make a good game, with mass appeal and it will sell to the masses.

Make a good game with limited appeal and it will garner limited sales.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="xYamatox"]

You're missing the point: Piracy = loss of sales. It may not be on a 1:1 ratio, but it's loss of sales none-the-less. I could care less if 1,000 pirated copies only lost 1 sale, it's still a loss in sales.

Let's not even get into the possibility that people had no intention of buying the game, played it, and ended up loving it...

xYamatox

I know perfectly well about diminishing returns. It doesn't change the fact that pirating games has a ripple effect on the industry as a whole. I wouldn't give a crap if game companies didn't make 50% of the their product being used (throwing out fictional numbers), if I knew it wouldn't effect game devs. People have this misconception that every single person who takes part in creating a video game, movie, or song is a millionaire, when the reality of the situation is anything but.

Then there's the issue with new game devs trying to make a name for themselves. If these guys don't make money on their game, it could completely break them from ever being able to work on another project again. Diminishing Returns works in this situation as well.

And the little guys are generally where the really good stuff comes from. It's interesting to note that some of our most endearing game franchises got their starts as indie titles and even mods.

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Duh it leads to some lost sales, absolutely no one is saying otherwise :|

And really, its business, its not about anything other then making money, who cares whether people like or dislike your product?

But realistically, go to a developing country, everything is pirated goods. When the average daily salary is a dollar a day, you think most of the world can afford to buy non pirated goods? Actually, do you even know that there is virtually no non pirated items available? Did you know that the markets for non pirated goods are so small they would lose money? You reasoning is incredibly flawed and not in tune with the reality which is, if the ratio of piracy is 1:1000000000000 and you don't care and want it eliminated, you should never ever be allowed to run or be in charge of a company. You'll sink it in record time. It absolutely does matter what the ratio is.

-Snooze-

Tell that to future game devs who are denied their game title by publishers because, "If it ain't CoD, it ain't gonna sell".

COD got pirated loads, still sold a ton ...

Make a good game, with mass appeal and it will sell to the masses.

Make a good game with limited appeal and it will garner limited sales.

That's not the point, though. Dev's don't just decide one day, "I'm making [insert game title here]", and then call all of their ochesrta buddies, tech dudes, writers, etc and slap the thing together in a weekend.

Most game devs need companies to lend a hand with cash in order for their game to be made. However, if game companies don't feel the "new and creative idea" will sell well, we gamers are at a loss. It's easy to say, "Make a good game and it will sell", but it's impossible to guage if a game is good if it's never had a chance to be made in the first place.

Thank god we have companies like Valve to help introduce new, and original ideas into the mainstream, but companies like those are few and far between these days (and looks to only get worst in the future).

[QUOTE="xYamatox"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]But then, if the cost to keep out those 1,000 pirates just to gain one more sale costs you more than the money you'd make from that one extra sale, then you, my friend, have crossed over into the realm of Diminishing Returns. It's the basic question, "Is it worth it?" Do movie companies scream bloody murder because DVD and now BluRay security gets shot up eight ways to Sunday? Only to a point. Sure, they employ scare tactics and update the BD+ program now and then, but apart from high-profile targets it's simply too costly to go after everyone, especially when many of them are in regions where the law can't touch them or when false accusations can mean rotten eggs on your face.HuusAsking

I know perfectly well about diminishing returns. It doesn't change the fact that pirating games has a ripple effect on the industry as a whole. I wouldn't give a crap if game companies didn't make 50% of the their product being used (throwing out fictional numbers), if I knew it wouldn't effect game devs. People have this misconception that every single person who takes part in creating a video game, movie, or song is a millionaire, when the reality of the situation is anything but.

Then there's the issue with new game devs trying to make a name for themselves. If these guys don't make money on their game, it could completely break them from ever being able to work on another project again. Diminishing Returns works in this situation as well.

And the little guys are generally where the really good stuff comes from. It's interesting to note that some of our most endearing game franchises got their starts as indie titles and even mods.

Indie devs can work in theory, but I'd put my money down (hypothetically speaking) that they arn't the one's who are finacially keeping the gaming industry alive. You just have to look at what titles are bought/sold constantly to see that the "Big Boys" are the one's who are running the show for the most part.

I'm not saying indie devs can't be successul, but I havn't seen many this gen that did well without the help of another company along the way. Just look at Bulletstorm: Epic is basically doing all of their PR for them.

That's funny. I see a lot of indies going solo or using alternate distribution methods and doing just dandy. I mean, look at Stardock, CD Projekt, and so on. If you ask me, perhaps the big boys are getting a little scared because they're losing a potential source of new developers (meaning money)--I have to wonder if the way Activision treated Infinity Ward is going to come back and get him where it hurts later on.

HuusAsking

A tiny fraction of indie games are profitable. And those that are profitable generally don't make a whole lot of money.

And I doubt anyone is scared about losing new developers...there's an endless stream of fresh-faced college grads looking for game jobs. Especially not Activision, considering how well black ops sold.

Teufelhuhn

and then there's minecraft :P

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"] Rant is ridiculous. Minecraft is pirate-able and yet sells insanely well. Why? Because most people view $10-$15 out of pocket as justified. Also the effort to "insert what is necessary to pirate" is greater than the $10-$15 cost. Black Ops is the most pirated because people don't want to pay $60 for a game that they pretty much had last year and the year before and the year before and then have to pay $15 for new maps...and NEVER see a price drop. Steal from the rich and give to the poor - and if you consider the money that Activision makes on CoD, we are all poor. People like Robin Hood you know...people will always rally around that principle.delta3074

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

Console gaming is dying.

FGMPR

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]

Your response is the typical "dime a dozen" pirate defense. So I can't afford a Maserati, so I should just go jack one, right? I think we know who's statement is the most ridiculous here.

Edit: Oh, and another thing, you have this Robin Hood mentaltiy. You think every single person who works on these games, whether it be the Activision cast or any other studio, is some sort of muliti-millionare? All the environmental designers, texture designers, lighters, conceptual artists, riggers, etc. they all get a millionare's salary, right? Give me a break.

marq4porsche

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

You have no idea how refreshing it is to see another "developer" in here, stating exactly what I've been ranting about for the past few days. I salute you.

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

marq4porsche

[QUOTE="marq4porsche"]

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

Teufelhuhn

[QUOTE="marq4porsche"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]if they actually made games that where worth what they charge then i could agree with you,a maserati is worth the asking price, a lot of games are not really worth there asking price, besides, developers are paid a set wage, they don't get there wages docked just because a game gets pirated x amount, they don't get a pay rise if it doesn't, they get paid the same amount either way, the only people you hit when pirating games are the shareholders, stockholders and high level execs, people who most likely are millionaires or damned close.TheMoreYouOwn

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

You have no idea how refreshing it is to see another "developer" in here, stating exactly what I've been ranting about for the past few days. I salute you.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="marq4porsche"]

I am right now working on an iphone game under contract. My contract states that I recieve 2% of the games revenue minus Apple's 30% cut. So if people were to pirate my game I wouldn't get paid. I already know that i'm going to make less than $2000 for 6 months works. We don't all have that luxury. Don't forget that. If you pirate the game I'm making, I make no money.

marq4porsche

[QUOTE="marq4porsche"]

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

Yeah I don't envy you, dude. I will gladly stick to the big publishers and sequels if it means I can eat and pay the rent. :P

Teufelhuhn