Gaming is degrading fast, who is to blame? Nintendo?

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] Even the way the system is built and the software it comes packaged with reeks of 'casual'. The controller, the console hardware, Wii Sports, Mii's...JabbaDaHutt30

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^ Those who say Nintendo is too blame don't understand how much damage the Xbox/PS2 and 360/PS3 have done.

Nintendo din't create dumbed down games like DE:Invisible War, Oblivion, Bioshock, Fallout 3 (still a good game though), Halo 2, Halo 3, Far Cry 2, F.E.A.R. 2, Mass Effect and Co.

All the consoles post SNES/Genesis and PS1/N64 have degraded gaming (witch originated from PC).

Wait,gaming is degrading??That's news to me.789shadow

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^ Those who say Nintendo is too blame don't understand how much damage the Xbox/PS2 and 360/PS3 have done.

Nintendo din't create dumbed down games like DE:Invisible War, Oblivion, Bioshock, Fallout 3 (still a good game though), Halo 2, Halo 3, Far Cry 2, F.E.A.R. 2, Mass Effect and Co.

All the consoles post SNES/Genesis and PS1/N64 have degraded gaming (witch originated from PC).

DOF_power

[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"] Funny you talk about the Mii when it seems the other systems are trying to build on the Mii's success. . sinseers

The current HD consoles could be thought of like HD-DVD or BluRay.

When consumers are not willing to rush out to go HD [or buy a second HDTV to game with] ... it's going to be tough dealing with lower sales vs. the competitor who is selling the currently-common technology [Wii] which can use any old set around the house. And when people don't adopt in droves ... the minimal margins, huge development costs of media for the system [HD games have more data, and data/content is expensive] further marginalize the market for these products.

Then, have competing products for the same market ... and you're aiming at half of a small % of homes - is there any wonder why sales of the non-HD console is way higher? Especially when the Wii was aimed at `everyone' - while the Xbox/PS3 were aimed at gamers of a certain age and taste. It's like wondering why Britney sells more albums than a jazz artist. When you're aimed at a big market - you can actually make money on your product - whether or not the purists [hardcore] like it or not. Bummer for them ...

Nevermind it seems like folks are forgetting the origins of console gaming ... which was casual-accessible to begin with.

Nintendo isn't ruining gaming, though plenty of people seem to be letting it ruin their gaming. That's really too bad for them, as the rest of us are having fun.

I'll confess I've not read all of this thread but went right to the end to make my point.

I'm not an Economics graduate and I'm not even particularly good with money but I understand the games business quite well and in certain cases games development has become unsustainable.

However, there are certain key developements that people in the games industry are using first is DLC, DLC is cheap to develop, digitally delivered and easy to make money from. Especially as we don't pay in hard cash for it. Unlike for example the DoW expansion that you would have bought off the shelf. No we use points and that is a deliberate attempt to remove the cost of the DLC from the actual dollar cost of it. They also sell us odd amounts of points, when games cost 800 points, and you purchase 2100 points there's something going on there and it's an attempt to get us to buy more points. I am very surprised none of the big three have point subscription packages especially MS as part of the XBox Live Sub. Micro-payments are similar to DLC. I guess Sony hopes that once Home finds it's feet it'll be a huge revenue generator.

I've already touched on subscriptions, look at how much MS must be turning over from XBox Live Gold subs - I know they have to share it around but we are still talking in the region of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, they paid $50mil for the GTA DLC and expect to recoup that without a problem that gives you some idea of the money we are talking about. Want another example look at the monthly Sub for WoW they don't need to charge that much for it but it makes them a very healthy profit by doing so and also offsets a lot of the other games costs they are incurring.

Finally there's digital distribution, games like Braid, Kefflings, World of Goo, Lit etc that are developed on a smaller budget with the intention of delivering them digitally so that you have no costs for media/distribution, retail etc.

All of these are being explored as ways of making more money out of gaming, and I haven't even touched on advertising yet.

[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"] Funny you talk about the Mii when it seems the other systems are trying to build on the Mii's success. . Animal-Mother

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] That's the problem right here. We have Nintendork to thank for that. It's my entire point.JabbaDaHutt30

i think the HD business formula is killing gaming

i think ignoring the best selling console with development is killling gaming

i think being scared of new ideas, thinking women, non-gamers and others don't have a place in gaming is hurting it

i also think with all this hate for casual gamers (like sony doesn't make more casual games in a year than nintendo does) that the gaming community is becoming more homo-phobic, sexist, and elitist

i think hardcore gamers, as always will be the death of hardcore gaming. not buying new IPs like zack & wiki, okami, banjo, viva pinata, etc. games like god hand, shadow of the colussus can't survive with the media hype that doesn't go to smaller, lesser known games

i'm hoping this changes, as i can't go an hour on TV without seeing a House of the dead overkill and madworld commercial

i think demanding netflix, video downloads, virtual worlds like home, etc are unneeded and taking $ away from real games with real ideas

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] That's the problem right here. We have Nintendork to thank for that. It's my entire point.JabbaDaHutt30

[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"][QUOTE="HarlockJC"] The idea of using one avatar that you designed to play in a game. Rather than some generic NP for each game? We should be upset by that? HarlockJC

No, I would have liked Mii's to look more detailed, more interesting with more customization options; not just different skin/hair color or something. More like LPB.

I mean just look at this! This is ridiculous:

Compare this to:

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] That's the problem right here. We have Nintendork to thank for that. It's my entire point.JabbaDaHutt30

Play PES 08 on the Wii? That IR pointer and the overall control scheme IMO/IME is a huge jump on anything that happened before. And would need the Wii remote to do that.

Boom Blox? Not on another console.

Just because it doesn't suit the games you like most doesn't mean that it hasn't provided any innovation.

In 1980, at age 10, if I thought the be-all and end-all of gaming would be the Sixaxis or such controller ... I would have quit gaming then.

IMO the WiiMote is much like mouse - new methods of interaction with technology [iPhone touch screen, for one] often forever change the whole medium.

Humanity is to blame for the decline in the games industry. Nintendo are simply catering to the lazy lesser beings of this world(the majority). Therefore games with any depth crumble into dust.Dahaka-UK

Arrogance like this from "teh hardcore" is what is killing gaming.

No, I would have liked Mii's to look more detailed, more interesting with more customization options; not just different skin/hair color or something. More like LPB.

I mean just look at this! This is ridiculous:

JabbaDaHutt30

Mii can be as simple as you want them to be or more complex if you take your time

i think the HD business formula is killing gaming

i think ignoring the best selling console with development is killling gaming

i think being scared of new ideas, thinking women, non-gamers and others don't have a place in gaming is hurting it

i also think with all this hate for casual gamers (like sony doesn't make more casual games in a year than nintendo does) that the gaming community is becoming more homo-phobic, sexist, and elitist

i think hardcore gamers, as always will be the death of hardcore gaming. not buying new IPs like zack & wiki, okami, banjo, viva pinata, etc. games like god hand, shadow of the colussus can't survive with the media hype that doesn't go to smaller, lesser known games

i'm hoping this changes, as i can't go an hour on TV without seeing a House of the dead overkill and madworld commercial

i think demanding netflix, video downloads, virtual worlds like home, etc are unneeded and taking $ away from real games with real ideas

darth-pyschosis

I think your Nintendo fanboyism coulds your judgment.

Things aren't as black and white as you put them.

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"]

[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] Not really. It shows Nintendork's popularity, however. The Mii's are a bunch of generich characters with little customization options. They were designed for casuals and for being used in casual games. Customizing your own character and using it in other games is a great idea, but Nintendork's approach is quite lame.JabbaDaHutt30

No, I would have liked Mii's to look more detailed, more interesting with more customization options; not just different skin/hair color or something. More like LPB.

I mean just look at this! This is ridiculous:

Well that's the cast of The Office and I can plainly tell which character is which, so I think the level of detail is just fine.

Well that's the cast of The Office and I can plainly tell which character is which, so I think the level of detail is just fine.

DaBrainz

[QUOTE="sinseers"][QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"] That's the problem right here. We have Nintendork to thank for that. It's my entire point.JabbaDaHutt30

We need to act before it's too late! We need to stop this casual Crap! Only way to this is to slice the head off Nintendo!

Viva la Hardcore gamer Revolution!

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="JabbaDaHutt30"]In my opinion, it's all Nintendork's fault for casualizing video games. Keep your Carnival Games and Mario Tennis please.JabbaDaHutt30

Childish name calling. Lovely.

Nintendo has been making games like that since the early 80s. How could that be changing the gaming landscape now?

Nintendo has always been about bringing games to the masses, not shoving itself into a corner with a small audience by focusing on a few specific genres. Never before have they had competition from systems that were so specialized, so the comparison couldn't be made.

Gaming is on a decline. More and more half bake, unfinished titles are being released with no end in site. I blame lazy, narrow minded 3rd part devs.umcommon

yet there are higher rated games this gen than last....

07 and 08 was full of excellent games, so far 09 looks like it will be a great year too.