Great write-up on Nintendo (If you hate reading don't bother.)

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timbers_WSU

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#1 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts
This is not my article but it is a really good read. 
HA HA Nintendo sucks <--Added to make it more System Wars material. 
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The Nintendo Third Party Dilemma: How we got here and why? If you believe it the short answer is Nintendo caused every single one of their own problems with third parties. Now they have a reputation for it and they have yet to show they're willing to change. They get the success they do on handhelds because they have basically a monopoly on sales, and if Wii U was the only console selling at all it too would get all the games.
_____________________________________

A HISTORY LESSON
_____________________________________

During the NES era, Nintendo leveraged its considerable power to put into place many actions that either hurt consumers or hurt developers.

Three notorious examples, which come from this fairly succinct and decently sourced write-up about the situation, states the following:

During the preceding generations, a video game programmer would simply purchase the equipment to construct games for a system from the system's parent company. The programmer was then was free to design any game without permission from the company. (A prime example of this was the video game based on the "Porky's" movies released by CBS for the Atari VCS/2600.) Yamauchi did not like this freedom given to the designers. So he had his engineers create a chip that would lock out the instruction code from any cartridge, unless that cartridge contained another chip, called a "key-chip." This "key-chip" had a certain disabling code. The disabling code was then patented by Nintendo and copyrighted.4 The result was that it became illegal to reproduce the code, without Nintendo's consent. Nintendo then made specific contracts that companies must agree to abide by in order to receive permission to reproduce the "key-chip." This gave Nintendo complete control over its third party licensees, and they used that control to propel the Nintendo Entertainment System farther. Specific deals were made which prevented these companies from producing games for any competing home system. Because of Nintendo's considerable market share, few companies argued with this policy. The result was that many competing systems were driven to extinction because of a severe lack of games. Companies like Atari and Sega could not hope to compete with a system with over 100 new games each year, when they could only produce a dozen or so annually without the help of third party licensees. This propelled Nintendo's domination of the market further.

Another example about how consumers might have been dragged into their negative net:

Nintendo began orchestrating game shortages sometime in 1988. This was called "inventory management" by Peter Main, an executive in charge of public relations at Nintendo, but was really to keep the customers on a short leash. By limiting the amount of product available, Nintendo could keep the demand for the product high. The editor of one toy-industry journal noted that "Nintendo has become a name like Disney or McDonald's. They've done it by doling out games like Godiva chocolates." By design, Nintendo would not fill all of the retailers' orders and kept half or more of its library of games inactive and unavailable. In 1988, for instance, 33 million NES cartridges were sold, but market surveys indicated that upwards of 45 million could have been sold. That year retailers requested 110 million cartridges, almost 2.5 times the indicated demand. These practices would greatly benefit Nintendo, but drive many smaller software firms out of business. Certain titles would be produced, then sold very slowly over the span of a year, and the profits would not come in fast enough to keep these small companies afloat. The toy and electronics as well as department stores became dependent on Nintendo, in addition to most game producers. This gave Nintendo a great deal of clout in dealing with companies who were used to throwing their muscle around.

This, obviously, also could hurt developers.

In the electronics and computer industry, you can expect equipment to reduce in price over time. When new devices are created that make older ones obsolete, the older devices are reduced in price to compete with the newer ones. This is clearly evident if one simply peruses the want-ads in their local paper and notes the prices of computer systems that were considered state of the art a year previous. This logic applies to all aspects of the computer and electronics industry, including video games. Why then between 1985 and 1989 did the Nintendo Entertainment System only lower $10 in its price?

This was exactly what Attorney Generals from all fifty states were wondering when they began investigating the activities of Nintendo of America in 1989. They found that Nintendo had been fixing the price of systems and games in the stores, using intimidation to influence retailers to abide by their wishes, and were making astronomical profits. Nintendo had been doing this since they first brought out the NES in 1985. They had strived to construct the system inexpensively, however, it was being sold at the same price as the competing systems. An antitrust action was brought up against Nintendo by these same Attorney Generals, and on October 17, 1991, District Court Judge Sweet granted approval of settlement agreements.

As we can see, in the aftermath of the NES, Nintendo already developed a reputation from strong arming developers and forcing them to make decisions not in their best interest. They also had no qualms hurting consumers, but unfortunately consumers weren't as plugged in at the time and generally didn't know the shit Nintendo was pulling. But developers did, and they carried that with them.

Here is another source that touches on some things here.

_____________________________________

ENTER THE FUTURE
_____________________________________

After the SNES and Genesis battled it out to the death, a new player was about to enter the arena. This was the PlayStation. Immediately, Sony was set to disrupt the industry by implementing a low-level media set top ideal; plays music CDs, plays games on CD. They would continue to ever after slowly implement cutting edge technology that allowed them to leverage the media set top ideal... DVDs for PS2, Blu-Rays for PS3. 

Why is this important?

Well, it leads to the next of the reasons Nintendo received the reputation for being bad for third parties.

Nintendo decided to make an N64 that only utilized cartridges. The size of the cartridges ranged from 32 MBit to 512MBit, which put them immediately in stark contrast to where the industry was moving for their games. On CDs, developers had around 700mb to play around with, amongst other advantages. They lost on loading speed, of course, but consumers and developers alike were willing to take that sacrifice to advance gaming in far more substantive ways. When Sony had that legendary ad with FFVII making fun of the lack of space on cartridges, it was a wrap. The idea had settled in and the market chose for Nintendo.


Our very own mrklaw expanded on this point:

I was working for a games company doing a PS1 and N64 game and the differences were stark.

Lead times from Sony DADC were tiny, you could order a small amount of stock knowing you could request more with maybe one week turnaround, so your inventory risk was low. And minimum orders were really small. Plus the cost of production was also low (think it was around $10 per disc including printed manual and case, delivered to your warehouse).

Nintendo by contrast on N64 had large minimum orders, expensive costs to produce the carts depending on memory size, whether you had battery backup ram for saves etc, and the lead times were horrendous - 6 weeks or so. So you had to hedge your bets right from the start. If you ordered low you'd have retailers with no stock and by the time you could replenish the opportunity would have passed. Overstock and you risk being left with piles of unsellable cartridges which you've taken the hit for. You could wipe out profits instantly with a tiny mistake in sales predictions.

From this point on, Nintendo would always find a way to isolate itself from the rest of the gaming community. They would always create their stable of groundbreaking game experiences which everyone talked about, but there was also always a tacit acknowledgement that in some way Nintendo simply wasn't tuned in to the needs of the market. 

_____________________________________

THE DOLDRUM DAYS
_____________________________________

After this, Nintendo still seemingly didn't understand that it needed to be tapped into the latest industry trends. Nintendo, always just a little behind the rest of the pack when it comes to technology, missed out on how the market was going to shift with DVDs. 

Instead, they went with a a proprietary disc set up that only allowed 1.5GB, immediately putting them once again significantly behind not only market trends, but in allowing the ability for third parties to function in an uninhibited manner. Compounding this issue was the fact that Nintendo released a year late, couldn't play MOVIE DVDs (something that was starting to become very important by the time GCN released) and they were entering into the market against a system which had already contributed to the demise of Dreamcast, already dominated the talk about technical power (thus contributing to the illusion that somehow GCN was behind there too) and had to contend with image issues with the "lunchbox design" that really didn't play well with some audiences to the point where it became a running joke.

None of these issues existed in isolation, but they formed yet another image of Nintendo out of touch with the times. Not only that, they created a platform which once again had limitations which the developer would have had to work around (the size limitation of the discs), and the fact that it wasn't selling particularly well only served to enhance this problem. Once again, as we can see, Nintendo create an environment which made it impossible for third parties to exist without problems.

_____________________________________

THE COMEBACK KID
_____________________________________

Now we come to the big one. In the simplest of ideas, Nintendo decided to leverage its outsider status by coming up with a now famous blue ocean strategy which involved - in much the same way Sony did with CD and DVDs - disrupting the industry. But they decided to do it at a much more fundamental level.

With the motion control tech of the Wii, the industry was set afire by the reaction consumers had. Not only that, but the games would function on DVDs which, for most of the gen, was really all that most games needed. So why didn't this change third parties perspectives toward Nintendo?

Now let's consider for a moment what I've already articulated at length. Third party developers already had a bad history with Nintendo, and were hesitant to just jump back on board. But there is a far more important thing that happened.

Because Nintendo may not have limited their system by the size of the storage space or the size of the install base, but it limited the system by the extremely limited power the system had relative to the Xbox 360 and PS3This immediately caused the problem of making the system near impossible to release competent ports for. Not only that, Nintendo was woefully behind on yet another of the industries latest trends, online integration. Sony was as well compared to Microsoft, but they had the pieces in place to make it something worthwhile. Nintendo simply did not.

So what happened here? Well, developers initially started their investments thinking the PS3 was going to be the industry leader, and after the price reveal they didn't change their strategy. Why? Because they realized that even if PS3 wasn't the market leader, it is smarter to release games that can be PS3+360+PC than just the Wii alone. The Wii put itself in a position where not only were the ports it could potentially receive extremely difficult to make comparatively (everything from the basics of an engine would have to be completely redesigned to critical online features being stripped out because of the horrendous online infrastructure), but most games would have to be made for Wii alone in mind if they were to really take advantage of the systems Wiimote technology and thus be competitive.

The result is what we saw. The Wii, one of the most successful systems of all time, had middling developer support that started out OK and eventually drained to AWFUL. And who caused this? I think we can safely say it was Nintendo.

_____________________________________

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THINGS STAY THE SAME
_____________________________________

Nintendo by this point realized that their blue ocean strategy was a winning position, and wanted to find something that was similarly disruptive to the market. What they settled on, ultimately, was a Gamepad which essentially turned the console into a DS in terms of potential application in games but also allowed key features like asymmetrical gameplay and OffTV play.

Unfortunately, this is where things took a turn for them. For they settled on a technology that, as we can now see, is simply not enough to draw people to the platform on its own. So much so that the Wii U is currently selling at levels that are comparable to the worst any major platform has ever done.

But that's not all. Once again, Nintendo decided to utilize tech that is an entire generation behind its [about to be released] competitors, forcing once more for developers to have to choose between focusing on making games that'll largely work for the lowest common denominator of a single platform, or focus on really pushing the PS4-XboxOne-PC port environment. As we saw with the last gen, they decided to do the ladder, thus instantly putting the Wii U in a terrible situation. But did they make this happen, or did Nintendo?

Frostbite Technical Director on Why Frostbite never came to Wii U
Nintendo's comically awful virtual console Wii U release list
Wii U hacked (this is bad or good depending on which side you're on)
Madden 25 not coming to Wii U (one of the biggest franchises on Earth)
Battlefield 4 Skipping Wii U
Problems with Wii U OS/firmware updates
Iwata discussing what is wrong with the Wii U including 'game delays, understaffing, etc'
A topic discussing the completely empty Japanese Wii U release schedule
A topic where Nintendo themselves discusses Wii U's complete lack of momentum and other problems
Deep Silver: No Wii U titles from us (Saints Row/Dead Island/etc)
CNet: Nintendo's Big Problem
The Wii U won't be getting Unreal Engine 4
Here is a thread showing video evidence of the inhumanely atrocious Wii U OS and its loading speeds (this is finally being worked on, thankfully though)
February 2013 NPD
January 2013 NPD
March 2013 NPD

Reading through the links carefully can give you the impression of how messed up things are for Nintendo right now. And it's all because of decisions they made.

 They decided to sell the system with a prohibitively expensive Gamepad that forces them to sell every system at a slight loss, thus making hasty price drops extremely difficult strategically
 They decided not to go into this gen prepared, thus causing massive delays in the release of what would have been pivotal Nintendo properties and causing the install base to all but stall completely
 They decided to release a platform that is once again woefully behind its competitors, making ports more financially and developmentally complicated



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heeweesRus

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#2 heeweesRus
Member since 2012 • 5492 Posts
good read
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Cheleman

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#3 Cheleman
Member since 2012 • 8198 Posts

TFL; DR

Also, reported, for bandodging.

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AD216

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#4 AD216
Member since 2008 • 1719 Posts

lmao that's entirely too long. i'll just read it later when i have time.

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bbkkristian

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#5 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts
Nintendo doomed.
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timbers_WSU

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#6 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

good readheeweesRus
How did the Sounders not win the game tonight? This little trip to Seattle was a waste. And where is Eddie Johnson?

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drekula2

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#7 drekula2
Member since 2012 • 3349 Posts

Nintendo is still viewing the world from a 1995 lens.

Nintendo is like the frat boy who as popular, athletic, got invited to parties and had all the girls in high school.  But 10 years later, he's still in his football team jacket playing beer pong talking about how he was the man back then.

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heeweesRus

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#8 heeweesRus
Member since 2012 • 5492 Posts

[QUOTE="heeweesRus"]good readtimbers_WSU

How did the Sounders not win the game tonight? This little trip to Seattle was a waste. And where is Eddie Johnson?

I dunno, I don't really pay much attention to the sounders. Can't wait for the upcoming Seahawks season though :cool:
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Michael0134567

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#9 Michael0134567
Member since 2008 • 28651 Posts

Nintendo's the best.

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timbers_WSU

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#10 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

Nintendo's the best.

Michael0134567
No. One of the best. Top 3? Sure They are far and away the best Japanese developers. But my Lord do they need some new blood to come in and shake things up. I am told Japanese companies are far more loyal than other places like the States. But they should at least have a PR team that can tell them where the market is going. Kind of give them a little push. Sad thing. The gamecube was amazing. Probably my favorite system that gen. But Nintendo seems to think them trying to be like Sony ans be like Microsoft hurt them. I really don't know why the GC was a failure. It has to be Nintendo's people in the office that pushes everyone away from them. What else could it be?
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crimsonman1245

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#11 crimsonman1245
Member since 2011 • 4253 Posts

Pretty crazy how bad Nintendo was back in the day with their cartridges and price fixing.

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timbers_WSU

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#12 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

Nintendo had the perfect opportunity with the Wii U. All they had to do was release something with the XB1's power and the pro controller a year earler. They had all the momentum really. They would get pretty much every multiplat and everyone here (No matter what they say) would of purchased it because of the exclusives.  But they wanted to be clever and probably cheap. And yet they are losing money because of the controller and the deal they made for the graphics chip. And Sony isn't with their hardware. That is amazing to me.

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PS4TrumpsXbox1

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#13 PS4TrumpsXbox1
Member since 2013 • 1371 Posts
I dont agree with the TC's assumptions on nintendo's handheld. There is the vita, which really doesnt have many games (but will probably pick up steam with PS4) and then theres mobile phones and al the games people can use. Nintenndo has always killed it on handhelds dating back to gameboy, not cause they monopolized but because they had tons of great games and no other company can copy the success nintendo has had.
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timbers_WSU

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#14 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

I dont agree with the TC's assumptions on nintendo's handheld. There is the vita, which really doesnt have many games (but will probably pick up steam with PS4) and then theres mobile phones and al the games people can use. Nintenndo has always killed it on handhelds dating back to gameboy, not cause they monopolized but because they had tons of great games and no other company can copy the success nintendo has had.PS4TrumpsXbox1
I think Nintendo does too much with their handhelds actually. I mean the 3DS is getting awesome support. Why did they not bring things to the Wii U instead? They also have given up on some of their franchises to quickly. Miyomoto was pissed about Starfox not meeting sales expectations. But the last Starfox was an N64 port. Befor that there was the Namco disaster and Starfox Adventures which should of never been a Starfox game in the first place. And then there is the new IP argument. But I gave that one up. I also gave up on ever getting a real sequel to Pilotwings 64 since they released that crap on the 3DS.

Everyone during the N64's launch game was in awe over Mario 64. But Pilotwings 64, looking back at all the times I played it and how often it was in my system was probably the better game, at least for me. Nintendo didn't even develop Pilotwings 64. Paradigm did. They are closed down now I think.

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super600

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#15 super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33161 Posts

You took that from that neogaf thread on nintendo's third party history.:lol: 

It's ripped from the OP of that thread. 

Anyway not a bad read and it brings things into perspective about ninty's past. If Yamachi or whatever his name is never pulled the crap he did with third parties ninty would probably be different today.

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timbers_WSU

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#16 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

You took that from that neogaf thread on nintendo's third party history.:lol: 

It's ripped from the OP of that thread. 

super600
Yeah. The first thing I wrote was that it wasn't my thread. And not everyone goes to GAF. Does not change the fact it is a damn good read. I am still going though some of the links.
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super600

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#17 super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33161 Posts

[QUOTE="super600"]

You took that from that neogaf thread on nintendo's third party history.:lol: 

It's ripped from the OP of that thread. 

timbers_WSU

Yeah. The first thing I wrote was that it wasn't my thread. And not everyone goes to GAF. Does not change the fact it is a damn good read. I am still going though some of the links.

Read my updated post.

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madsnakehhh

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#18 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18368 Posts

Dat wall of text is killing my eyes :o

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Soul4Survivor

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#19 Soul4Survivor
Member since 2013 • 175 Posts
cool read . not a Nintendo fan today but i was back then.. NES and SNES . will never forget it took me a year to finally save up to buy the SNES with donkey Kong county 1
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AM-Gamer

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#20 AM-Gamer
Member since 2012 • 8116 Posts

Anyone who knows about gaming for the past 30 years knows this story.  Nintendo was pretty ruthless but they still have produced some of the most memorable franchises in gameing.  

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lostrib

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#21 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

tl;dr

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timbers_WSU

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#22 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

Anyone who knows about gaming for the past 30 years knows this story.  Nintendo was pretty ruthless but they still have produced some of the most memorable franchises in gameing.  

AM-Gamer
Yep. And Nintendo has no problem bringing out sequels for them. Oh my Lord do they love Mario.
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#23 pawq4
Member since 2013 • 448 Posts

tl;dr

OK I read the first sentence.

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timbers_WSU

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#24 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

tl;dr

OK I read the first sentence.

pawq4
How sad is it that the title says long read and yet you click on it anyway?
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hiphops_savior

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#25 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
By limiting the amount of product available, Nintendo could keep the demand for the product high. That strategy made sense at the time, especially after the fact that ET overstock is one of the biggest reasons why the Video Game Industry crashed in the first place. The biggest problem Wii U is facing right now isn't power; it's architecture. Even if the Wii U is as powerful as the PS4 or the Xbox One, the fact that the architecture is completely different makes porting games to the Wii U less desirable for publishers. At this point, it doesn't matter how efficient the Wii U's architecture is, publishers just want every system to share the same architecture so that they can spend less time and resources just to create a working port.
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timbers_WSU

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#26 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts
[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]By limiting the amount of product available, Nintendo could keep the demand for the product high. That strategy made sense at the time, especially after the fact that ET overstock is one of the biggest reasons why the Video Game Industry crashed in the first place. The biggest problem Wii U is facing right now isn't power; it's architecture. Even if the Wii U is as powerful as the PS4 or the Xbox One, the fact that the architecture is completely different makes porting games to the Wii U less desirable for publishers. At this point, it doesn't matter how efficient the Wii U's architecture is, publishers just want every system to share the same architecture so that they can spend less time and resources just to create a working port.

Perfectly said.
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#27 masterninja9
Member since 2013 • 203 Posts

From the N64 up until the Wii, 3rd parties had actual valid reasons as to not putting their games on those platforms.

With the N64 and GC, it was game media storage. The carts and mini-DVDs were mor expensive and held far less data than the CD and DVD respectively.

The Wii was 1/7 to 1/10 as powerful as the competition and it had the same feature-set as the GameCube (from 1998).

 

These excuses are no longer valid with the Wii U. It has the same feature-set as the X1 and the PS4 despite them being 2x and 3x more powerful than the Wii U respectively. It's nowhere near as underpowered as the Wii was. The Wii U also has propriatery blu-ray discs which are 25GB per layer. Even if they're only one layer, and second disc couldn't be as costly as the mini-DVDs or carts. Hell, people can simply download the game on eShop if the don't want fool with discs.

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timbers_WSU

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#28 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

From the N64 up until the Wii, 3rd parties had actual valid reasons as to not putting their games on those platforms.

With the N64 and GC, it was game media storage. The carts and mini-DVDs were mor expensive and held far less data than the CD and DVD respectively.

The Wii was 1/7 to 1/10 as powerful as the competition and it had the same feature-set as the GameCube (from 1998).

 

These excuses are no longer valid with the Wii U. It has the same feature-set as the X1 and the PS4 despite them being 2x and 3x more powerful than the Wii U respectively. It's nowhere near as underpowered as the Wii was. The Wii U also has propriatery blu-ray discs which are 25GB per layer. Even if they're only one layer, and second disc couldn't be as costly as the mini-DVDs or carts. Hell, people can simply download the game on eShop if the don't want fool with discs.

masterninja9
They have one very good reason. There is no user base. You could argue that it is up to 3rd parties to help by releasing games on the system but no one is gonna buy a Wii U for third party titles when they have a 360 or PS3. Nintendo has done themselves no favors by not having any first party titles and delaying what they have. I was told Mario Kart 8 was done by a Nintendo rep at Best Buy. She said it got held back so they would have something in the first half of next year. That sounds like Bayonetta 2 and Smash Brothers is late summer or worse, fall. So yeah, this is again Nintendo's fault. Launching with a 2D Mario game that is obviously an HD version of the 3DS tools? Come on man?
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nintendoboy16

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#29 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42250 Posts

You took that from that neogaf thread on nintendo's third party history.:lol: 

It's ripped from the OP of that thread. 

Anyway not a bad read and it brings things into perspective about ninty's past. If Yamachi or whatever his name is never pulled the crap he did with third parties ninty would probably be different today.

super600

Funny part is, he'll get more defense than Iwata ever will, nevermind it was thanks to him that Nintendo became the love/hate company we know today and no matter what changes Iwata or his possible replacement makes will change it.

You want to know an interesting thing? Yamauchi's family had Yakuza links like Disney did the Italian Mafia.

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nintendoboy16

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#30 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42250 Posts

Hey, wait a minute! I recognize part of that article... and Sean Malstrom (one of Nintendo's biggest critics mind you) destroyed it (save for one small part).

I'm not trying to whiteknight Sean as I still disagree with him on many things (Eiji Aonuma's Zelda games for one as much as TP was a fun disappointment), as well as Nintendo because, well they f*** up as well.

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Bardock47

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#31 Bardock47
Member since 2008 • 5429 Posts

Nintendo had the perfect opportunity with the Wii U. All they had to do was release something with the XB1's power and the pro controller a year earler. They had all the momentum really. They would get pretty much every multiplat and everyone here (No matter what they say) would of purchased it because of the exclusives.  But they wanted to be clever and probably cheap. And yet they are losing money because of the controller and the deal they made for the graphics chip. And Sony isn't with their hardware. That is amazing to me.

timbers_WSU

God this, so sad and true. First let me say (as a Wii-U owner) its a good console, and I look forward to all the exclusives. But the lack of actaul blu-ray DVD support and the power difference is what kills it. This console couldve cemented nintendo as being an industry leader again. I would have galdly played an extra hundread for better graphics and memory; as well as the gamepad! That would have been amazing $400 console that matches One's graphics, with the gamepad, and all the Ninty exclusives:/ 

I still like my Wii-U, but that fact is my Laptop is my main way if playing games....it couldve been Nintendo.

If anything, Nexgen (a little early I know) will be a lot fo fun.

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Coolyfett

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#32 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

good readheeweesRus
Nintendo, Nintendo, Nintendo....those guys. Coolyfett can remember 1992 like it was yesterday, when a great fighting game buy the name of Mortal Kombat came out on Genesis and Super Nintendo, that was one of the forks in the road for Coolyfett.  Coolyfett had put so many quarters in that game and here it was finally coming to a home console and luckily Coolyfetts family had the Genesis. What does Nintendo do?? They made Midway softing it up, because they thought we gamers were not growing up. Here it is 21 years later and Nintendo is the same soft ass company they were when Coolyfett was in 6th grade. Hey at least they didnt sensor the bustiness of Samus in that Other M game.

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bbkkristian

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#33 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts

[QUOTE="heeweesRus"]good readCoolyfett

Nintendo, Nintendo, Nintendo....those guys. Coolyfett can remember 1992 like it was yesterday, when a great fighting game buy the name of Mortal Kombat came out on Genesis and Super Nintendo, that was one of the forks in the road for Coolyfett.  Coolyfett had put so many quarters in that game and here it was finally coming to a home console and luckily Coolyfetts family had the Genesis. What does Nintendo do?? They made Midway softing it up, because they thought we gamers were not growing up. Here it is 21 years later and Nintendo is the same soft ass company they were when Coolyfett was in 6th grade. Hey at least they didnt sensor the bustiness of Samus in that Other M game.

bbkkristian thinks that bbkkristian needs to get bbkkristian's shoes so bbkkristian cango to the store to pick up a new Nintendo game for bbkkristian because bbkkristian is awesome.
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Coolyfett

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#34 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

Nintendo is still viewing the world from a 1995 lens.

Nintendo is like the frat boy who as popular, athletic, got invited to parties and had all the girls in high school.  But 10 years later, he's still in his football team jacket playing beer pong talking about how he was the man back then.

drekula2

That kinda sounds like Al Bundy, are you calling Nintendo an Al Bundy??

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Coolyfett

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#35 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

Anyone who knows about gaming for the past 30 years knows this story.  Nintendo was pretty ruthless but they still have produced some of the most memorable franchises in gameing.  

AM-Gamer

Yep and so has Playstation

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timbers_WSU

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#36 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

Anyone who knows about gaming for the past 30 years knows this story.  Nintendo was pretty ruthless but they still have produced some of the most memorable franchises in gameing.  

Coolyfett

Yep and so has Playstation

Looking at your sig I don't think you have much experience withe the Playstation 3. So maybe Coolyfett has no idea what the **** he is talking about?
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#37 masterninja9
Member since 2013 • 203 Posts

They have one very good reason. There is no user base. You could argue that it is up to 3rd parties to help by releasing games on the system but no one is gonna buy a Wii U for third party titles when they have a 360 or PS3. Nintendo has done themselves no favors by not having any first party titles and delaying what they have. I was told Mario Kart 8 was done by a Nintendo rep at Best Buy. She said it got held back so they would have something in the first half of next year. That sounds like Bayonetta 2 and Smash Brothers is late summer or worse, fall. So yeah, this is again Nintendo's fault. Launching with a 2D Mario game that is obviously an HD version of the 3DS tools? Come on man?timbers_WSU
That's not really a valid excuse either seeing as it's fairly early in the system's life. Hell, if Pikmin 3 sales in Japan are anything to go by, the small install base problem will end in a couple weeks.

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cainetao11

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#38 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38086 Posts
It seems they need to either stop trying to operate on their own island and play ball with industry tech standards, or accept being a niche console, supported primarily by themselves, and not really relevant.
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Coolyfett

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#39 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="Coolyfett"]

[QUOTE="AM-Gamer"]

Anyone who knows about gaming for the past 30 years knows this story.  Nintendo was pretty ruthless but they still have produced some of the most memorable franchises in gameing.  

timbers_WSU

Yep and so has Playstation

Looking at your sig I don't think you have much experience withe the Playstation 3. So maybe Coolyfett has no idea what the **** he is talking about?

check the gamespot profile kid....then eat your own terds.

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rjdofu

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#40 rjdofu
Member since 2008 • 9171 Posts

TFL; DR

Also, reported, for bandodging.

Cheleman
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nameless12345

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#41 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

You know, they were pretty much a tyranny for 3rd parties back in the NES and SNES days yet almost everyone supported them.

This simply means that the 3rd parties will go to the whatever system that sells best. (except if it's too weak like the Wii was which had inflated sales due to the "casual" audience)

But I will agree that it was the insistance on cartridges and making their system very hard to develop for as well as still having a "they'll wish to make games for us simply because we're Nintendo" attitude that lost them a lot of support in the N64 era as well as the PlayStation shaking things up and being heavily advertised towards a broader audience. (instead of just kids and game fans like Nintendo appealed to)

NGC was designed to fix those issues and they also had much warmer relations to 3rd parties at the time but it didn't really suffice and still they did some backwards decisions. (like no support for online play, mini-DVDs, selling-off Rare, ect.)

So that leads to Wii, which was a risky idea (underpowered yet relatively expensive and "gimmicky" system aimed at families) shook up the market and expanded their audience and gave them a "safe bubble" in which they operated.

But now with the WiiU, it's exactly that audience that abandoned them so they are back to appealing to only Nintendo fans (and even that's questionable) and the result are the sluggish sales, declining 3rd party support and a bad industry reputation. (the "casual", "gimmicky", "underpowered", "kiddy" stigmas are still very real and it's unlikey they'll ever get rid of them)

I'd like to believe they could "turn around" the WiiU like they did with 3DS, but I see too many obstacles for that to happen "just like that", as was the case with 3DS (remember that for home consoles apply a bit different "rules" than for handhelds) so they'll probably just "chug along" this gen and after that I hope they make a sort of unified system that could be quite the hit, if the pricing would be right.

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mariokart64fan

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#42 mariokart64fan
Member since 2003 • 20828 Posts

oh i love how people blame nintendo , sure in the past they had rules, but now they do not hardly have the control, yet third parties still refuse support, even the wii did not get respected ,  sure it has more releases then 360 ps3 but what of those were actually games id want to play, 

 when you take away nfs cod sims petzdogs 2 mini destop racers ferarri or some ofthe more fun games , your left with mini game comps , and stuff like wii fit knockoffs 

 

sorry ,3rd party is just about as at fault as any one else is including the consumer who didnt support big name wii titles like bully or driver 

it is because of that wii did not get gta 

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Coolyfett

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#43 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

So why are Nintendo fans NOT purchasing the Wii U? It is their responsibility to support it.

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nintendoboy16

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#44 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42250 Posts

So why are Nintendo fans NOT purchasing the Wii U? It is their responsibility to support it.

Coolyfett
Because it doesn't have enough interesting games YET. That and the price for the Deluxe/Premium.
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nintendoboy16

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#45 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 42250 Posts

Has anyone even read this response to the first part of the thread, yet?

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Coolyfett

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#46 Coolyfett
Member since 2008 • 6277 Posts

[QUOTE="Coolyfett"]

So why are Nintendo fans NOT purchasing the Wii U? It is their responsibility to support it.

nintendoboy16

Because it doesn't have enough interesting games YET. That and the price for the Deluxe/Premium.

ohhhhhhh

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KungfuKitten

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#47 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

Don't they all create artificial scarcity? They have months to produce plenty of Xbox ones and PS4's now. I bet they'll still 'sell out' in days.
I was actually supporting the use of cartridges, because of load times and sturdyness. I still prefer cartridges over discs. Now I use flash and USB sticks instead of discs for everything I can.
That article made in response was fantastic. It's good to see these professional Nintendo-haters fall flat on their face again. And again.

Pfft this article could have been written by Timbers himself.

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AzatiS

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#48 AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts
Damn , +1 !!! Really good read ... Since im old gamer since NES era and i was gaming back then ... I agree with EVERYTHING this guy said..
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KungfuKitten

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#49 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts
Damn , +1 !!! Really good read ... Since im old gamer since NES era and i was gaming back then ... I agree with EVERYTHING this guy said.. AzatiS
This is beautiful. With this article we can filter out the people who are mindless Nintendo haters.
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AzatiS

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#50 AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts

Don't they all create artificial scarcity? They have months to produce plenty of Xbox ones and PS4's now. I bet they'll still 'sell out' in days.
I was actually supporting the use of cartridges, because of load times and sturdyness. I still prefer cartridges over discs. Now I use flash and USB sticks instead of discs for everything I can.
That article made in response was fantastic. It's good to see these professional Nintendo-haters fall flat on their face again. And again.

Pfft this article could have been written by Timbers himself.

KungfuKitten

Do you have any idea what are you talking about ? I dont blame you if you are not old gamer enough to remember what CARTRIDGES meant for nintendo .. But i will tell you what happened...

MAJOR games where otherwise would have been NINTENDO EXCLUSIVES ...jumped to PS as ..exclusives!! Small examples... FINAL FANTASY 7 !! The list of games/developers which did exactly the same is huge !

How can you say you were supporting cartridges because of load times when your console was losing major exclusives and multis because of drive restrictions? Its not about hate , its about fact !! Its FACT what "killed" N64. It was this cartdridge limitations that made developers focus on CDs , aka Playstation. So its not about Nintendo haters ...its about how much sensitive Nintendo fanboys are nowdays that wont admit the obvious.