Has the Xbox 360 oversaturated the market?

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

Popadophalis

And Sony to neither...

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

AmyMizuno

What do I mean by a spectrum of shades of grey? People can enjoy a certian genre enough to purchase a console, or people can enjoy many different genres and be pleased equally by all. I think that separating gamers into two groups: 'hardcore' and 'casual' is an oversimplification of the gaming population.

If anything, 360 has sold to people who enjoy shooting games enough to purchase a console.

...and yet my comments still apply. The shooters and racings sims etc aren't going to appeal to the wider family group or the customers who don't regularly play games. Games like Viva Pinata and scene it simply aren't enough and Microsoft's going to have to come up with something alot more compelling id they hope to succeed in the wider market.

[QUOTE="dragon_master11"]Mass effect, Dead rising, Forza 2...AmyMizuno

I got a 360 for mass effect which is now coming to PC...

Funny, I love shooters, but found plenty else to play on my 360 besides shooters as well...

[QUOTE="dragon_master11"]Mass effect, Dead rising, Forza 2...AmyMizuno

Every game is a potential system seller. Simple as that. Some more than others, but who is to say no one was sold on Forza 2, or Dead Rising, or a combination. Did you ask every 360 owner what sold them on the system to come up with your "facts", or are you making them up as you go?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Funny, I love shooters, but found plenty else to play on my 360 besides shooters as well...

AmyMizuno

I owned a 360 at launch, and I was going to own one at launch, regardless of what genre I was into, and the game that really got me into the 360 was Geometry Wars. Funny your little theory, though.

Even though 360 has non-shooter games, the problem is MS marketed the 360 as the hardcore, shooter, online, Halo console. They hype Halo, boast Live, and doesn't really market Viva Pinata, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odessey.

PS3 has the widespread brand power, variety of games, and it doubles as a blu-ray player. Wii has marketed itself as casual from the start. I do think 360 has saturated its target audience.

360's anticipated games this year: Ninja Gaiden 2 (hardcore), Gears of War 2 (hardcore+shooter), Too Human (somewhat hardcore), Fable II (somewhat casual). I don't even hear any hype for Banjo 3 because that's not the 360 audience.

PS3's anticipated games this year: MGS4, GT5P, Little Big Planet, Resistance 2, Home, White Knight Story, Killzone 2. Nice balance of games.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]I think 360 has the lock on shooters with Halo 3, Gears of War, etc plus the multiplats.

But other genres are covered

Right now RPGs is all 360 when comparing consoles. Mass Effect, Oblivion, Eternal SOnota, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and soon Tales of Vesperia, Fable 2, Infinite Undiscoverey, Cryon, and Fallout 3 for a multiplat like Oblivion.

Platformers is only really being done well by Nintendo with Mario Galaxy. But 360 does have Banjo 3 on the way

RTS which aren't popular on consoles are better on 360 with Halo Wars, Lord of The Rings Battle for Middle Earth, Command and Conquer 3, etc

Racing has been better on 360 with Forza 2, PGR 3, PGR 4, and the multiplats.

Action/Adventure it has the big games like GTA 4, Assassins Creed, Devil May Cry 4 and has Too Human, ALan Wake, Ninja Gaiden 2,etc on the way.

Now this is just comparing to the other consoles. THe PC is beating out the 360 interms of RPGs, FPSs, RTSs,MMOs, etcAmyMizuno

Besides that, I don't think that any of the above games are truly system sellers, and are games that people may buy only if they already have a 360.

PS: I'm not holding my breath for Alan Wake

RPG's

1. Fable 2
2. Infinity Undiscovery
3. Too Human
4. Tales of Vesparia
5. The Last Remnant
6. Fallout 3

Strategy

1. End War
2. Halo Wars
3. Sup Com
4. Universe at War: Earth Assault
5. World in Conflict
6. Operation Darkness
7. Spectral Force 3
8. Command and Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
9. Warhammer: Battle March

Shooters:

1. Gears of War 2
2. Quake Wars
3. Unreal Tournment 3
4. Battlefield: Bad Company
5. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway
6. Project Origin
7. Left 4 Dead

Action/Adventure:

1. Ninja Gaiden 2
2. Alone in the Dark
3. Saints Row 2
4. Merenaries 2: World in Flames
5. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
6. Splinter Cell: Conviction
7. Dead Space
8. Brutal Legend
9. Alan Wake

I'd say it's reaching out more, the PS3 is getting as many, if not MORE shooters then the 360( Tack on Resistance 2, Killzone 2, and Haze. And remove Left 4 Dead and Gears of War 2.). So are we going to call the PS3 a console only for shooters now?

PS3's anticipated games this year: MGS4, GT5P, Little Big Planet, Resistance 2, Home, White Knight Story, Killzone 2. Nice balance of games.

iamanehero

First, Home is not a game, its a social interface. And every other title you listed is a "hardcore" (for lack of a better term) game, with the possible exception of LBP, although under its "cute" exterior is more hardcore in terms of its gameplay and depth than most people give it credit for.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="dragon_master11"]Mass effect, Dead rising, Forza 2...AmyMizuno

Every game is a potential system seller. Simple as that. Some more than others, but who is to say no one was sold on Forza 2, or Dead Rising, or a combination. Did you ask every 360 owner what sold them on the system to come up with your "facts", or are you making them up as you go?

As for my 'facts,' you have the same information I do. All you would have to do is look at the NPD sales of 360's on a weekly basis, and see when the 360's sales spike. Any difference in the line curve from the norm would indicate that outside interference is selling the console. In the principles of economics, this is called a 'compliment.'

Don't condescend to me. I am fully aware of business practices and statistical analysis of data. I said, clearly, that some titles are more impactful on sales than others, but that does not discount my point in the least, unless sales were 0 when there were not your pre-packaged "system sellers".

[QUOTE="millwrought"]

I'd say it's reaching out more, the PS3 is getting as many, if not MORE shooters then the 360( Tack on Resistance 2, Killzone 2, and Haze. And remove Left 4 Dead.). So are we going to call the PS3 and console only for shooters now?

AmyMizuno

Presentation is sometimes more important than the content. The 360 simply isn't known as a console for genres outside of shooters, which is why Mass Effect was even marketed by Microsoft as a shooter and not an RPG. Microsoft is treating the 360 like a one-trick pony, and the one trick of shooting will only get them so far.

I'm going to blame this on the Halo series. Don't get me wrong, I love the series, but the Halo series made the Xbox was it is today. And made it known everywhere, so when you ask most people what the first thing that comes to mind when they think of the Xbox, they think Halo.

But Microsoft IS trying to do something about it. They are publishing: Banjo 3, Halo Wars, Fable 2, Too Human, Alan Wake, and Ninja Gaiden 2.

The only shooter they are going to publish this year is Gears of War 2. I'll bet Microsoft has more titles hidden away until E3, but I think Microsoft will really try to focus on showing the gamers that they are trying to do more genre-wise for their upcoming prestation at E3.

[QUOTE="millwrought"][QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="millwrought"]

I'd say it's reaching out more, the PS3 is getting as many, if not MORE shooters then the 360( Tack on Resistance 2, Killzone 2, and Haze. And remove Left 4 Dead.). So are we going to call the PS3 and console only for shooters now?

AmyMizuno

Presentation is sometimes more important than the content. The 360 simply isn't known as a console for genres outside of shooters, which is why Mass Effect was even marketed by Microsoft as a shooter and not an RPG. Microsoft is treating the 360 like a one-trick pony, and the one trick of shooting will only get them so far.

I'm going to blame this on the Halo series. Don't get me wrong, I love the series, but the Halo series made the Xbox was it is today. And made it known everywhere, so when you ask most people what the first thing that comes to mind when they think of the Xbox, then think Halo.

But Microsoft IS trying to do something about it. They are publishing: Banjo 3, Halo Wars, Fable 2, Too Human, Alan Wake, and Ninja Gaiden 2.

The only shooter they are going to publish this year is Gears of War 2. I'll bet Microsoft has more titles hidden away until E3, but I think Microsoft will really try to focus on showing the gamers that they are trying to do more genre-wise for their upcoming prestation at E3.

I don't know, if I was Sony I would try to get Final Fantasy bundled with the PS3 this holiday season, and out the door late November/early December. That will blow EVERYTHING out of the water, and sale like hotcakes (Yummmm, hotcakes...).

So far all we got to look forward too non-shooter wise is MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, White Knght Chronicles, God of War 3, and Final Fantasy 13. I am sure we will see more this E3, but I am REALLY looking forward to a possible Jak sequel.

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

Popadophalis

wrong shooter fans=/=hardcore. Theres lots of other genres and lots of other hardcores.

:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:Dante2710

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

Cyber-

wrong shooter fans=/=hardcore. Theres lots of other genres and lots of other hardcores.

I'm sorry but where exactly did I mention shooters? There are plenty hardcore genres represented on the 360 but that ain't the problem.

[QUOTE="millwrought"]

I don't know, if I was Sony I would try to get Final Fantasy bundled with the PS3 this holiday season, and out the door late November/early December. That will blow EVERYTHING out of the water, and sale like hotcakes (Yummmm, hotcakes...).

So far all we got to look forward too non-shooter wise is MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, White Knght Chronicles, God of War 3, and Final Fantasy 13. I am sure we will see more this E3, but I am REALLY looking forward to a possible Jak sequel.

AmyMizuno

It will sell alone very well alone yes. But if you include with an PS3 3 for a cheaper price it will sell not only software, BUT hardware.

All in all, great to have awesome software sells, but if you can combine the two, it will be much better. (For example: the MGS4 bundle with PS3 this coming June.) Also look at Europe, PS3 bundled a game that everyone knew was going to sell very well (GTA4), and yet they still bundled it.

The PS3 isnt doing that great either in terms of variety. It's relying on shooters just like the 360 to sell it's consoles. And currently the XBOX 360 is much better for RPGs. The PS3 has what? Folklore(lulz) and err.. hmm.. FF13 not out yet so it don't count. Even wtih FF13, PS3s rpg line up is pretty darn average. White Knight Cronicles=definate FLOP, it looks like a even more dummed down version than FF12.

Looking forward to Cry On, Infinite Undiscoverey, Tales of Vesperia, Fable 2, Possibly SO4, LO2, BD2, an more that I've missed, all on the 360. While PS3 has a select few.

The PS3 isnt doing that great either in terms of variety. It's relying on shooters just like the 360 to sell it's consoles. And currently the XBOX 360 is much better for RPGs. The PS3 has what? Folklore(lulz) and err.. hmm.. FF13 not out yet so it don't count. Even wtih FF13, PS3s rpg line up is pretty darn average. White Knight Cronicles=definate FLOP, it looks like a even more dummed down version than FF12.

Looking forward to Cry On, Infinite Undiscoverey, Tales of Vesperia, Fable 2, Possibly SO4, LO2, BD2, an more that I've missed, all on the 360. While PS3 has a select few.

Dahaka-UK

Sonny jus wanna push bluray dont care bout games

[QUOTE="Cyber-"][QUOTE="Popadophalis"]

Well I think we can safely say it's reached its saturation point in the hardcore market however there is still a large casual market left to tap into.

I guess that's the major difference in stategy between Microsoft/Sony vs Nintendo. Microsoft have conquered the hardcore market first and are only now attempting (unsuccessfully thus far) to reach the casuals where as Nintendo right from the get-go marketed to both Casual and core alike.

Popadophalis

wrong shooter fans=/=hardcore. Theres lots of other genres and lots of other hardcores.

I'm sorry but where exactly did I mention shooters? There are plenty hardcore genres represented on the 360 but that ain't the problem.

First of all its crazy to assume that 20 million users is all thats left of hardcore gamers. Second of all there are not that many games outside of shooters to look for esp with the uninformed gamers who dont look at websites alot and find their games when they go to the stores.

360 fanss are predominantly shooter fans and saying that there is not much more the 360 can captilize on with hardcore gamers would hint at saying hardcore gamers are also shooter fans.

The PS3 isnt doing that great either in terms of variety. It's relying on shooters just like the 360 to sell it's consoles. And currently the XBOX 360 is much better for RPGs. The PS3 has what? Folklore(lulz) and err.. hmm.. FF13 not out yet so it don't count. Even wtih FF13, PS3s rpg line up is pretty darn average. White Knight Cronicles=definate FLOP, it looks like a even more dummed down version than FF12.

Looking forward to Cry On, Infinite Undiscoverey, Tales of Vesperia, Fable 2, Possibly SO4, LO2, BD2, an more that I've missed, all on the 360. While PS3 has a select few.

Dahaka-UK

That is kinda sad if you think about it. A japanese console that has almost no JRPG's. It has what? Folklore and a dumbed down Enchanted Arms port? And possibley a Eternal Sonata port (Which may actually turn out well.).

But 360 has a good amount of JRPG's, and more on the way. Microsoft was very wise backing Mistwalker, they got potential two Final Fantasy-like series (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon.), and a potential great third game coming out (Cry On.).

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:Cyber-

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

Your analysis is purely your view on the console, I got my 360 for PGR, Mass Effect, Virtua Fighter, Lost Odyssey, Viva Pinata (more for my wife but still) and after the purchase I have found a fair few other great games plus I have stuff to look forward to like Resi 5. There is currently more variety available for the 360 than the PS3 so I don't see how you can say it is all shooters, the only genre it is weak in is platformers, and if you are using a crystal ball to found your argument I have to apologise but I appear to have misplaced mine.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:Dante2710

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

um then your not looking at other consoles very much.

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="Cyber-"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:Cyber-

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

um then your not looking at other consoles very much.

Same could be said of you...

People who want to see only shooters on 360 will only see the shooters. I could fill you up a library without shooters just as easily.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"][QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="Cyber-"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:SpruceCaboose

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

um then your not looking at other consoles very much.

Same could be said of you...

People who want to see only shooters on 360 will only see the shooters. I could fill you up a library without shooters just as easily.

Yes you could but it would be less noticeable games that were not given as much attention. Not to mention were also talking about less informed gamers buying these games. Games that are not shooters generally dont sell well compared to those that are shooters.

We dont need to simplify your points as they are simple enough already. The people who want to buy 360 or who already have one are primarily shooter fans who enjoy playing online. The fact of the matter is the PS3 has been disappointing all around so far and in reality, fans of almost any genre could find a better deal on 360.

"Everyone who wants a 360 already has one" is probably inaccurate mainly because the console has larger casual appeal than you give it credit for. Halo, as much as people try to argue, is a very casual game. Online you notice a lot of people who only play halo because of how awesome they think it is. If thats not casual then i dont know what is.

It is mainly marketed towards shooters but anyone who looks into it can find whatever they are looking for I'm sure

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="Cyber-"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]:roll: another person calling the 360 a shooter console.....i wish i had that article that says otherwise :roll:Cyber-

for the most part it is. Yes there are some notable games in other genres but if you dont like shooters/sports your basically out of luck. ONe way or another your gonna have to play a shooter to fill your library for 360.

um then your not looking at other consoles very much.

We dont need to simplify your points as they are simple enough already. The people who want to buy 360 or who already have one are primarily shooter fans who enjoy playing online. The fact of the matter is the PS3 has been disappointing all around so far and in reality, fans of almost any genre could find a better deal on 360.

"Everyone who wants a 360 already has one" is probably inaccurate mainly because the console has larger casual appeal than you give it credit for. Halo, as much as people try to argue, is a very casual game. Online you notice a lot of people who only play halo because of how awesome they think it is. If thats not casual then i dont know what is.

It is mainly marketed towards shooters but anyone who looks into it can find whatever they are looking for I'm sure

Zoomin

True games like Halo are great at parties and very much enjoyed by casual gamers as much as hardcore gamers enjoy it. I also think that the 360 is not "teh doomed" because if sales continue to fall for it, the market will respond with more companies trying to makes games besides shooters. It would be smart if MS tried to publish more games like Ninja Gaiden 2.

Yes you could but it would be less noticeable games that were not given as much attention. Not to mention were also talking about less informed gamers buying these games. Games that are not shooters generally dont sell well compared to those that are shooters.

Cyber-

You said if you didn't like shooters, you were out of luck, and that you needed shooters to fill the library. Stop trying to back up with this "sales" or "less noticeable" qualifier.

I can make you a library containing plenty of non-shooters, which means if you don't like shooters, you would still be able to find plenty to play.