History Indicates The Wii U Will Be Impressive Graphically

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#1 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

Okay, so we have no specs for the Wii U, we only have vague statements about its power from third parties that often contradict one another and are all over the place (the Wii U is extremely powerful; the Wii U is powerful enough to support our framework; the Wii U can do anything the Xbox 360 and the PS3 can; the Wii U is a stopgap console). Making the matter worse is the fact that first party statements themselves are contradictory (the Wii U will be competitive with next generation consoles; the Wii U will not be incredibly more powerful than the Xbox 360). This leads to unsibstantiated arguments regarding the system's power, and hence its future, and by extension, Nintendo's future.

We don't have any concrete numbers or facts to back any arguments up. What we do have, however, is precedence, which I will now use to demonstrate that the Wii U will in fact be a supremely powerful console graphically, and that even if it is the weakest system next generation, it shall be competitive (sort of like the PS2 was last gen).

How do I propose to do this? By using tech demoes of course. The fallacy that many point out in such an argument is that tech demoes are never representative of a console's power, and they often exaggerate the visual prowess of the system. Such arguments would be right, except Nintendo tech demoes never exaggerate. In fact, the tech demoes almost always look several degrees worse than the final game ever does.

The Legend of Zelda has often been used to create tech demoes that incite excitement towards the new system, and show off the prowess of the console as well.

Nintendo 64

Here is the tech demo for The Legend of Zelda 64.This is what the final game, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, really looked like. See how much better it looks than the tech demo? The demo makes my eyes bleed, it makes me want to hurl. The final game looked beautiful for its time, and still holds up today, thirteen years after its original release.

Gamecube

The Gamecube debuted with footage from a Zelda tech demo, which has become infamous for the cries of outrage and allegations of bait and switch that it incited when the actual Zelda game turned out to be The Wind Waker.Regardless, the actual demo is linked above. The final game on the Gamecube, the realistic Zelda game which can really be held to be representative of the system's power, was The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Here is what it looked like. Once again, the difference in how the original demo looks (like a highly upgraded N64 game) and how the final game looks (it managed to hold its own against HD console games in 2006) is substantial, and the tech demo again was not indicative of the system's actual power.

Wii U

To launch the Wii U, Nintendo had no games, but only vague promises of third party support and future first party games. They did, however, have loads of tech demoes.One of them stood out more than others: the Zelda tech demo. The demo looks incredible- it already grapicaly seems to be doing that would be very hard, if not outright impossible to achieve on the Xbox 360 or PS3. The fact that this entire portion of the game is rendered in engine is even more impressive. Going by the remarkable difference in the tech demoes and the final products in the past, can you even imagine what the final game will look like? And by extension, how impressive the Wii U actually has to be?

Again, it might be the weakest of the three systems next gen, but the difference will be more like the difference between the PS2 and the Xbox/Gamecube rather than the difference between the Wii and Xbox 360/PS3.

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KC_Hokie

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#2 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

The Wii wasn't at all impressive graphically. And tech demos never ever show what real games will ever look like for the entire lifespan of a console.

So I couldn't disagree with you more.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#3 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

The Wii wasn't at all impressive graphically. And tech demos never ever show what real games will ever look like for the entire lifespan of a console.

So I couldn't disagree with you more.

KC_Hokie
Did you read my OP? Where did I say the Wii was impressive graphically? And did the OP not clearly demonstrate that Nintendo tech demos UNDERSELL what the final game will look like?
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mmmwksil

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#4 mmmwksil
Member since 2003 • 16423 Posts

tl;dr We're following a pattern and if it applies, Wii U will be powerful? :P

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#5 HaloPimp978
Member since 2005 • 7329 Posts

I hope so. I wasn't impressed with the Tech Demos at E3 expect for the Zelda one. They should add a 20+ GB and a strong processor which blows the rest of their graphics away, also no more shovel ware.

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KC_Hokie

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#6 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

The Wii wasn't at all impressive graphically. And tech demos never ever show what real games will ever look like for the entire lifespan of a console.

So I couldn't disagree with you more.

charizard1605
Did you read my OP? Where did I say the Wii was impressive graphically? And did the OP not clearly demonstrate that Nintendo tech demos UNDERSELL what the final game will look like?

Not sure what linking bad quality youtube videos proves but whatever floats your boat.
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shinrabanshou

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#7 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

I think you're jumping a bit to conclusions...

And exaggerating the Zelda tech demo; it's 720p with no AA, running at 30 fps.

EDIT: I'm sure that the WiiU will have nice graphics, and it will be technically superior to the current gen consoles. But I don't think the technical leap will be huge, and the visible leap even smaller due to diminishing returns.

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#8 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts

Found this pic:

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/160/e/6/zelda_hd_for_wii_u_____by_nintendowiiu-d3iey4v.png

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Mario1331

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#9 Mario1331
Member since 2005 • 8929 Posts

Found this pic:

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/160/e/6/zelda_hd_for_wii_u_____by_nintendowiiu-d3iey4v.png

SaltyMeatballs

zelda wiiu looks freakn awesome

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Kingpin0114

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#10 Kingpin0114
Member since 2008 • 2607 Posts

They should be more impressive than current gen consoles. Will they still be impressive when the nextbox/PS4 comes out? Time will tell.

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nameless12345

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#11 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

I believe it will be but not because of technical prowess but because Nintendo's art-style will look amazing in "proper" HD.

I wouldn't bet too much on those tech demos tho. It's possible the final games will be a downgrade from those demos.

And the GC tech demo looked better than the final game :)

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#12 nintendofreak_2
Member since 2005 • 25896 Posts

I think you're jumping a bit to conclusions...

And exaggerating the Zelda tech demo; it's 720p with no AA, running at 30 fps.

shinrabanshou

That's exactly what I was thinking when I watched it. :?

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nameless12345

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#13 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

I think I found a pic how the next Zelda might look like:

Surprise, surprise, a 2D game! :P

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Inconsistancy

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#14 Inconsistancy
Member since 2004 • 8094 Posts

I think I found a pic how the next Zelda might look like:

Surprise, surprise, a 2D game! :P

nameless12345

Just 'cause it's fairly flat shaded and cel-shaded doesn't make something 2d (assuming that weren't just a painting of some sort, which it appears to be..)(unless wanna call Gears a 2d game, since it's displayed on a 2d plane...).. that perspective doesn't work so well in 2d games anyway, camera following a character from behind, you'd need tons of sprites to deal with that w/o making it extremely jarring.

And, if a whole game looked like that, that'd be great!

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mmmwksil

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#15 mmmwksil
Member since 2003 • 16423 Posts

I think I found a pic how the next Zelda might look like:

Surprise, surprise, a 2D game! :P

nameless12345

I love it! :o

The picture, I mean.

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dontshackzmii

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#16 dontshackzmii
Member since 2009 • 6026 Posts

its a gimped 4850 with 2 screens and only 512 mbs of ram for the cpu. Will be teh weak at best.

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nameless12345

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#17 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I think I found a pic how the next Zelda might look like:

Surprise, surprise, a 2D game! :P

Inconsistancy

Just 'cause it's fairly flat shaded and cel-shaded doesn't make something 2d (assuming that weren't just a painting of some sort, which it appears to be..)(unless wanna call Gears a 2d game, since it's displayed on a 2d plane...).. that perspective doesn't work so well in 2d games anyway, camera following a character from behind, you'd need tons of sprites to deal with that w/o making it extremely jarring.

And, if a whole game looked like that, that'd be great!

Well here is how a next-gen Okami could look like:

There is surely much room for aesthetic graphics.

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nameless12345

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#18 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Let's hope the next Mario will look something like this eh? :P

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#19 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

tl;dr We're following a pattern and if it applies, Wii U will be powerful? :P

mmmwksil
if the pattern applies, we'll have games that somehow look much better than that tech demo. i find it kinda hard to believe, but a pattern is a pattern, it does give something to discuss.
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#20 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Some older CGI:

I'm still waiting for games to look like this :P

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#21 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Imagine a Metroid Prime with a Crysis-like engine:

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#22 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
^ gamecube games looked like the yoshi pic you posted and metroid prime 3 looks like that... except for the awful lens flare someone added.
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#23 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

^ gamecube games looked like the yoshi pic you postedBrunoBRS

And those were?

I'm still waiting for so beautifully curved 3D objects :P

Funnily we could probably already have that if game devs used NURBS instead of polygons (which give all 3D games a squareish look).

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#24 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]^ gamecube games looked like the yoshi pic you postednameless12345

And those were?

I'm still waiting for so beautifully curved 3D objects :P

Funnily we could probably already have that if game devs used NURBS instead of polygons (which give all 3D games a squareish look).

honestly, yoshi from melee looked like that already. and melee looks awful if you compare to later GC games. also it's preferrable to have a billion triangles than to have an actual curve. curves drain power like s***. so unless you want to go back to GC-level graphics, devs are sticking to polygons.
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#25 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Such graphics would blow away any current "graphics king" imo.

But I'm probably expecting a little too much here :)

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nameless12345

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#26 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]^ gamecube games looked like the yoshi pic you postedBrunoBRS

And those were?

I'm still waiting for so beautifully curved 3D objects :P

Funnily we could probably already have that if game devs used NURBS instead of polygons (which give all 3D games a squareish look).

also it's preferrable to have a billion triangles than to have an actual curve. curves drain power like s***.

I'm not so sure about that. I've red the first Unreal engine could already calculate them. But they supposedly aren't compatible with polygons so everything needs to be curved or something like that.

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nameless12345

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#27 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

GC didn't use curves btw. It just used millions of polygons which make some of it's games look appealing even today:

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bonesawisready5

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#28 bonesawisready5
Member since 2011 • 4971 Posts

Braid developer says the Wii U has "a lot more RAM" than current HD Twins. Crytek is happy with it. That should be enough guys.

My guess.

Custom IBM Triple-Core CPU @ 3.4Ghz, Custom AMD RV700 GPU @ 850Mhz, 2GB System RAM, 512MB VRAM, 16GB Internal Flash Memory, Wireless B/G (Still no Ethernet Port), and a price tag of $299-$349.

My guess is Xbox: The Third and PS4 will not be much more powerful than this, maybe similar with a slight advantage with a Core or two more on the CPU, and maybe a slighly faster GPU, but overall I expect the Wii U to at worst be the PS2 in comparison to the PS4/Xbox:3rd's Xbox/GameCube

I still love that everyone was all like "it looks as bad as a PS3/360 LOL!Z" at e3 before finding out that the majority of the footage was indeed, on PS3s, 360s.

Also, the Zelda demo looks better than anything on my Xbox 360 or PS3. I hope it ships with that demo.

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nameless12345

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#30 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

I expect the Wii U to at worst be the PS2 in comparison to the PS4/Xbox:3rd's Xbox/GameCube

bonesawisready5

If the Wii-U turns to be "the PS2 of next-gen" that's only a positive thing since the PS2 had the best support by far (some would argue best games as well).

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#31 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
that's actually a great argument TC good job.
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#32 -CheeseEater-
Member since 2007 • 5258 Posts
2007 PC Hardware in a 2012 Console.. Righto folks. Moving along.
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#33 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

2007 PC Hardware in a 2012 Console.. Righto folks. Moving along.-CheeseEater-

Because hardware alone makes the games pretty, rite?

Also Wii-U's CPU is of a newer origin (POWER7 based tech).

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#34 Jamiemydearx3
Member since 2008 • 4062 Posts

If most games match what the tech demo looks like at 1080p, it'll be fine. If not....Well look at the Wii.

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#35 LordXelNaga
Member since 2005 • 1161 Posts
History indicates that the Wii (2006) will be impressive....oh wait, the history didn't mean jack diddly squat
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#36 -CheeseEater-
Member since 2007 • 5258 Posts

[QUOTE="-CheeseEater-"]2007 PC Hardware in a 2012 Console.. Righto folks. Moving along.nameless12345

Because hardware alone makes the games pretty, rite?

Also Wii-U's CPU is of a newer origin (POWER7 based tech).

Yep. Hardware is one of the primary factors behind achieving great graphics and shading. Let's roll out my old NES and boot up Battlefield 3 on it shall we? Wii U's architecture is ancient for 2012.
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#37 Fizzman
Member since 2003 • 9895 Posts

Doubt it. Nintendo only cares about casual gaming. Cheap system with cheap gimmicks is the only thing i expect from the Wii U.

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#38 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts
History indicated that Wii should have sold half the amount of units it currently sold. History is NOT a good measurer for these kind of things.
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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#39 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

History indicates that the Wii (2006) will be impressive....oh wait, the history didn't mean jack diddly squatLordXelNaga
Really? How/when did history ever indicate that?

Doubt it. Nintendo only cares about casual gaming. Cheap system with cheap gimmicks is the only thing i expect from the Wii U.

Fizzman

So you started gaming in 2006?

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#40 nintendog66
Member since 2006 • 2300 Posts
You guys also know that Nintendo will be "re-launching" the console at the next E3, very likely to have much better hardware. even when the "current" specs are actually pretty amazing. The AMD RV700 series may be a couple of years old but they're somewhere around 10x the speed of current gen consoles. You guys have no idea the kind of engineering that goes into consoles, they just can't put a GTX 590(a "current gen" ridiculously fast dual gpu) and a state of the art CPU because it all has to fit in a nice little box, without overheating and while using as minimal power as possible, unlike a PC that's usually 5x times as big and has power to spare.
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#41 jonathant5
Member since 2010 • 873 Posts

[QUOTE="-CheeseEater-"]2007 PC Hardware in a 2012 Console.. Righto folks. Moving along.nameless12345

Because hardware alone makes the games pretty, rite?

Also Wii-U's CPU is of a newer origin (POWER7 based tech).

Actually yeah, the more powerful the hardware, the higher the probability that the game will look god (given that it has more features and can crank out more pixels and well is more powerful). The X360 and (to a lesser extent) the ¨PS3 both launched with hardware that was very close if not equivalent to the PC hardware available at the time. From what we know, the Wii U will be using an old CPU, and be based on the Radeon 4800 line which is 3 generations old now (and will probably be 4 gens old by the time WiiU comes out). It is clear Nintendo will use old hardware and overprice the system again, just like they did with the Wii and the 3DS.

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#42 sailor232
Member since 2003 • 6880 Posts

Fingers crossed it will be amazing, I lost a lot of faith in Nintendo this gen and would love to get back on board the Nintendo train if they can pull off an amazing console with the games and support to back it up.

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#43 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
there is also the question: how much can Nintendo get away with? Wii games look really bad on modern TVs. They are really fuzzy looking and I think there's something else wrong there. Assuming the WiiU will be the weakest next gen console it may have the worst visuals but they will at least be crisp 1080p visuals and I don't see TVs getting much better unless 3D TVs sweep the nation (highly unlikely imo). There is also the question that if the WiiU does get outclassed completely in hardware how will companies be able to afford putting all that extra detail in their games? Game development costs are already very high. I can't imagine the nightmare of polishing up a near-photorealistic game.
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#44 AtariKidX
Member since 2010 • 7166 Posts
After this....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FN5vlxzQ0 ......i am not very sure for that.
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#45 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

History also indicats WiiU games will look like crap next to PS4/Xbox 3 ones though

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#46 sailor232
Member since 2003 • 6880 Posts

Yeah I just watched that ad, its user made and all but re-seeing that E3 footage reminds me of the Wii all over again. I guess they dont want to move away from what the Wii did, otherwise the name Wii in wouldnt be in the new console at all. I'm saying, No one should be suprised if Nintendo dosnt change there ideas and keep releasing casual games and ad ons.

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#47 AtariKidX
Member since 2010 • 7166 Posts

History also indicats WiiU games will look like crap next to PS4/Xbox 3 ones though

AdrianWerner

WiiU games they will not look better even than XBOX360/PS3 games.Did you have see the new WiiU trailer...??:|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FN5vlxzQ0

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#48 sailor232
Member since 2003 • 6880 Posts

yeah looking at that trailer, all we can see is more of the same. Not impressive but like I said before, I hope Nintendo changes there stratergy and really blows me away again.

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#49 jonathant5
Member since 2010 • 873 Posts

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

History also indicats WiiU games will look like crap next to PS4/Xbox 3 ones though

AtariKidX

WiiU games they will not look better even than XBOX360/PS3 games.Did you have see the new WiiU trailer...??:|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FN5vlxzQ0

I am pretty sure that the trailer is not representative of what the final Wii games will look like and we can be 100% sure (based on common sense as well as the rumored/leaked specs) that the WiiU will be considerably more powerful than both the X360/PS3 and that the games wil look better. The issue/debate now is will the WiiU pull a Wii and target casual gamers and release a very small number of quality games and lack 3rd party support, and will it, just like its predecessor, be considerably weaker than the competition (PS4/Xbox 3) and overall be the inferior and overpriced console with a gimmick.
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#50 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="AtariKidX"]After this....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FN5vlxzQ0 ......i am not very sure for that.

Er... that has nothing to do with Nintendo. It is a fanmade video :|