Hmm....havn't seen that PS3 comback yet....

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="67gt500"]MGS4 alone firmly established PS3's credibility as a legitimate contender this year...0bscurity

This thread reeks of fail

I like it when lems try to play the whole "sales game" to try to define greatness in their console, but only is in 2nd place to a much inferior hardware and software console. So i guess that the Wii is a better gaming console because it sells more right? Sales hardly (if ever) benefits gamers, only dev and publishers gets the true financial treat with sales, so why play them? In the end, ps3 owners still will get ports because, as little as the community is on the ps3 side vs the 360's, it still a very enticing number to still do a multiplat for, even if it is "inferior". Chances are, that most CASUAL gamers won't even tell the minimal difference in most multiplats

As far as exclusives go, if anyone here at gs forums, try to state that the 360 had a better year in the exclusive department this year going by reviews here, really need a head examination. MGS4 may have been an "interactive movie" for most of you lems, but it must have been a very good interactive movie, because not only did it manage to pull out a review score here that a single 360 exclusive games have not achieved to this date, but no other platform this gen have yet to have a AAAAE so far, and the funny thing is that this site wasn't the only site to give this game AAAA scores. This year had more flops for the 360 that the ps3. the ps3 just had a little less games to come out this year, but everyone knows quality>quantity. It means nothing if most of those numerous games to come out winded up being flops. The ps3 had 6 1/2 (1/2 being GT5p) exclusives to come out this year. I wasn't aware that GT5p had a hype level so this game, i don't know about, but the only game to flop in the ps3 camp this year was Socom, while the only game that was able to achieve a AAA score on the 360 side was Gears 2, in which scored lower than the 1st Gears did, while R2 scored higher than R1

i'm starting to hear "wait till 09" now :lol:facebooker

[QUOTE="diamond2d"]

10/10 for MGS4? GS must ave been paid of by Konami, i played it and i was so bord, 60% of that game must ave been Cut scenes, yes they do look great but i want to play games not watch movies! MGS4 is dreadfull and dont get me started on LBP lmao OMD's.....

Where are PS3's Exclusives?? They aint got none!!!!

Generalmojo

I can compare u with my 6 year old brother!

y

cos he got bored of MGS4 also!

The people who reviewed MGS4 were obviosly mature people who are into deep storylines and Epic games such as MGS4

yes of cource u will fall asleep becuase u didnt play the previous games - JUST LIKE MY 6 YEAR OLD BRO

face it

games like mgs4 is what makes people happy

its not just colourfull characters online jumping up and down with a assualt rifle carrying a flag on the back! - (know what game it is?)

so plz

dont even comment on mgs4 if u havent played the previos games

ty :D

Comparing mgs to a comic book....ouch is the word Generalmojo

I think certain people keep forgetting what really counts. 1 AAAAE and 2 AAAE for PS3 this year.carlisledavid79

[QUOTE="carlisledavid79"]I think certain people keep forgetting what really counts. 1 AAAAE and 2 AAAE for PS3 this year.nervmeister

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Generalmojo"] Comparing mgs to a comic book....ouch is the word Generalmojo

Go back to wacthing Naruto my freind

this seriosly aint your place to be :(

seriosly

if u played the whole mgs series and didnt like it

well

what can i say...?

u have bad taste?

I mean suuuure!

Naruto is clearly better!

or any money making comic out there making deranged kids buy them :(

[QUOTE="nervmeister"][QUOTE="carlisledavid79"]I think certain people keep forgetting what really counts. 1 AAAAE and 2 AAAE for PS3 this year.3picuri3

[QUOTE="Generalmojo"]

[QUOTE="3picuri3"] have my english major mate, think i can determine for myself what makes a great story. i've read plenty of graphic novels / comic books that destroy the MGS4 story, which in my opinion is far too heavy handed to be taken seriously. even comic books need subtlety from time to time. i've watched all the cutscenes, it's just not my cup of tea. which is odd considering i appreciate some japanese graphic novels - which is obviously where MGS finds it's inspiration. you're not kidding anyone trying to say it's more complicated than comics / graphic novels. to say so is a bit odd - as it means you're putting MGS4 against real literature - which slaps the MGS4 story around like a beach ball imho. even the worst pulp clancy novels are far more complex and deep than MGS. i'm not a halo fan, but the fiction and overarching story line is arguably more complex and interesting than MGS. the game is more action oriented - but the story still has depth. maybe not as much as MGS4, but god bless bungie for not hammering the story over my head like a wet trout like Kojima does. end of the day mate, this is an opinion - just like yours. only difference is i don't insult you to make my point.3picuri3

Go back to wacthing Naruto my freind

this seriosly aint your place to be :(

seriosly

if u played the whole mgs series and didnt like it

well

what can i say...?

u have bad taste?

I mean suuuure!

Naruto is clearly better!

or any money making comic out there making deranged kids buy them :(

qualifying it as such is based on YOUR opinion. i don't even know what naruto is mate, i just liked the animated gif :) i'm sure it's more entertaining than MGS though, could be wrong.

Oh put a sock in it!

i thought were done :)

Gentlemen, please. Let's not attack our buddies, the sheep & the hermit. The enemy of my enemy is my friend after all.:D The 360 owners should simply watch & enjoy the cow meltdown. The biggest problem for cow land IS the games. American game designers build their games on Windows which are then easily moved to the 360. You can't do this easily with the PS3. So the PS3 gets the port. So even in multiplats, the PS3 is being burned.

Sure, the PS3 might have stable electronics and superior blu-ray, but for a gamer, this means nothing if the games are hand-me down ports and sparse exclusives. The PS3 console might as well be an ornament for a coffee table: nice and shiney but never used. American game designers back Microsoft technology & I don't see this changing unless the PS3 plans to make their next console as transparent to PC program compiling as the 360.

Lastly, even though the 360 has RROD, Mr. Softy gives you a 3 year warranty. I've just experienced my 2nd RROD, but since Mr. Softy foots the bill, including the shipping & handling, I'm only temporarily inconvenienced for a couple of weeks. It's not really that shocking anymore. Now I get a refurbished unit with a new 3 year warranty. Perhaps Mr. Softy will learn from this mistake in design, but if they're happy to keep giving me new Xboxes and extremely long warranties, I'll happily buy that one console for them to keep doing so! It's their money, not mine, that is being spent after all.

jknight5422

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="nervmeister"]Sorry. Lemmings have changed the rules yet again. Now, only holiday sales count.nervmeister

YOu know its funny, all through 2007 a bunch of Sony fanboys had been screaming at Xbots and Nintendites that the PS3, despite dismal sales and bad game lineups, was headed to make a big comback in 2008. Well, 2008 came, and now its December, and you know what I'm wondering? WHERE'S THE PS3 COMEBACK YOU FANBOYS WERE YELLING ABOUT????!!!!

Ok first off they claimed all of their games would be totally awsome and would cause the system to dethrone the Wii and 360 this year. Well I havn't seen any of that, even with your precious Metal Gear Solid 4! Its funny even that game couldn't push sales! And also a bazillion of your games have been delayed as well, and games you hyped to oblivion have flopped. (Haze anyone??)

Not to mention Microsoft did the best marketing attack recently. They cut the price to just 200 dollars. Thats even more expensive than the Wii! Now the Xbox is selling a lot, and of course now with Gears of War 2 its doing even better! Sure we may have seen a flop or two of games this year, but not as much as Sony guys! Sony better do something.....

So why don't you Sony fanboys come over here and give me your reason why your beloved system has fallen short yet again! I'll be waiting.....

I like how you xbox fanboys are so passionate about your videogame system. You guys sound like your leading a fanboy army, it's nuts.

TO KEEP THINGS REAL, you guys should really stop pretending 360's 2008 was awesome. While admittedly, 360's sales are beating PS3's, as far as game quality/line up goes, 360 simply just didn't deliver.

In terms of quality games, PS3 2008 was simply better than 360's, and there's almost no way to argue that. $199 for a 360... smart move. Doesn't mean it got better games in 2008 though.

Not to mention a big portion of you get faulty systems... PURPOSELY done by Microsoft.

[QUOTE="facebooker"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"] same can be said about 360 (what did the 360 have over the PS3 this year?)....hell, its heading to a droubt. Gears 2 is out, whats left...PC ports and some bad RPG's?

GreyFoXX4

360 owners aren't the ones always crying "bu-but just wait till..." :lol:

[QUOTE="nervmeister"][QUOTE="3picuri3"] think it's time you learn there are no hard & fast rules in SW. it's not as if there is a lemming or cow consortium that meets bi-annually to change the rules. best you not focus too much on the flavor of the month in terms of what beats the competition, etc. there is no end-game in SW. we're not working towards some final goal with set criteria to qualify and quantify a generation. there will be no awards ceremony. no ribbons. no ticker-tape parade. people say things. people try to refute them. trying to argue against all lemmings in one breath based on a generalization isn't going to solve a thing as you're no addressing anyone in particular - lemmings are not borg :P.blue_hazy_basic

It's simple as to why, it's called every time Sony lowers the price of the PS3 MS lowers the price of the 360. Notice how the cheapest console is way in 1st place, 2nd place is the 2nd cheapest, and 3rd is the 3rd cheapest. Make all 3 the same price and lets see which one wins. I guarantee it would be the PS3. patriots7672

@micky4889

I don't care what has been said in the past. See this is the kind of argument people use when they can't win. Oh hey why don't we only include non-shooters too? Then the PS3 would surely blow the 360 out of the water. The only reason why people choose to use Gamespoot is because it fits their opinions. As soon as it doesn't it's "Oh MS must have payed them off so I'm using IGN or Gamerankings" or "Well it didn't recieve an AAA game here for 2007 so all the game on said console suck" I'd use the same argument even if I were arguing for the PS3 too. What I stated in my previous post was all the game coming out for all systems are pretty much equal in scores this year which is the truth. You can skew the results as much as you like to make your console of preference look better than anything else but in the real world both systems are pretty much equal in terms of games this year.

The PS3 is doing a lot better than it did last year, but I think this is hardly the huge cameback they kind of hyped. Overall, the 360 line up is better at the moment, and the console is cheaper.

you just need to wait for the great RPG's on the ps3 to come out then it will pass the wii and even the ps2

ok so i made that post up by combining 2 or 3 cows

wow, such ignorance. How about the fact that the ps3 has outsold the 360 last year and most of this year? with a higher price point. once the ps3 cuts its price more competively the 360 is done for. if the ps3 can outsell the 360 with a higer price point what does that tell you? its common sense.

what about the 360 fanboys who cant seem to grasp the fact that the ps3 has gained on the 360 signifacantly, why do you think ms cut the price of the 360? its not because it was winning,ill tell you that much. the 200$ 360 will probably outsell the ps3 this x-mas, sony does need at least a 100 dollar price cut, but im sick of you people acting like there was no progress made.

Bren128

the 360 has sold more units in the sates then the ps3 this year and we dont have a good sorce for europe, as for japan they both sell in such small numbers it does not matter. the fact is the ps3 has not come close to the total number of units sold that the 360 has

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

They did make a comeback with all the new AAA games, etc. I don't consider them better than 360, but they are definitely better than before. rolo107

[QUOTE="Bren128"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]For all this outselling "most" of the year and last year how much ground did the PS3 actually make up? It's still between 5 and 6 million consoles behind with that gap looking to get a fair amount larger this holiday season. Just an FYI, the 200 dollar 360 HAS outsold the PS3...and that's not even counting sales of the 300 and 400 dollar version. Lastly, MS was OVERDUE for a pricecut...sony was gaining on them so fast that they waited almost 30 months LONGER than last gen to price cut by 100 bucks. Where is all this [progress? They're still about as far behind as they were back in November of 06. Steppy_76

wow, such ignorance. How about the fact that the ps3 has outsold the 360 last year and most of this year? with a higher price point. once the ps3 cuts its price more competively the 360 is done for. if the ps3 can outsell the 360 with a higer price point what does that tell you? its common sense.

what about the 360 fanboys who cant seem to grasp the fact that the ps3 has gained on the 360 signifacantly, why do you think ms cut the price of the 360? its not because it was winning,ill tell you that much. the 200$ 360 will probably outsell the ps3 this x-mas, sony does need at least a 100 dollar price cut, but im sick of you people acting like there was no progress made.

the 360 has sold more units in the sates then the ps3 this year and we dont have a good sorce for europe, as for japan they both sell in such small numbers it does not matter. the fact is the ps3 has not come close to the total number of units sold that the 360 has

They did make a comeback with all the new AAA games, etc. I don't consider them better than 360, but they are definitely better than before. rolo107

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

AlphaGamer469

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

AlphaGamer469

LOL

Here is another one, also to the tune of Itchy and Scratchy:

It Breaks

It Breaks

The Three Red Rings of Death

Break Break Break

Break Break Break

The Xbox 360 Burns

LOL...I just could not resist.

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

nervmeister

Ask cows...they've been tellings us to wait for more than 3 years now. We've been sitting here patiently, waiting as asked, yet the PS3 is still in last place.

[QUOTE="nervmeister"][QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

Pimpshigity21

Ask cows...they've been tellings us to wait for more than 3 years now. We've been sitting here patiently, waiting as asked, yet the PS3 is still in last place.

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

AlphaGamer469

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

Animal-Mother

This year

ps3 mgs4 (AAAA), LBP(AAA), resistance 2(AAA)

360 gears 2(AAA), fable 2(AA)

/thread

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"][QUOTE="Bren128"] theyve made up alot of ground, you dont think that the ps3 will pass the 360 eventually if it keeps outselling it worldwide? you can say ms was overdue for a price cut but it also came at a time where the ps3 was winning again this year. eventually ms wont be able to cut the price anymore and the ps3 will catch up and surpass it. The fact that the ps3 outsold the 360 with a higher price point screams volumes. It says that there is more of an interest and once sony cuts the price(which they need to do) i dont see any reason why the ps3 wont start outselling it again. Bren128

[QUOTE="Bren128"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]You have to look at what rate at which something is outselling the other. The PS3 was about 6 million machines behind on Nov 17, 2006, the PS3 today is betwween 5.5 and 6 million behind. Tell me again, where is all this massive ground being made up? If the PS3 continues to outsell the 360(which doesn't seem that likely as of now)then if that trend continues long enough then yes it will outsell the 360...the question is how long will it take that to happen, if it has gained by a million users on the 360 in two years, that means that it'll take 12 years to catch up. how relevant will the PS3 and 360 be in 2020? Also, the gap is looking like it will get larger so the PS3 will have an even larger gap to try to overcome when it does drop its price. The fact that the PS3 outsells the 360 at a higher price isn't that surprising...the fact that the PS3 is outselling a RROD's plagued 360 at such a slow pace that the NEXT next gen will be coming to a close by the time the PS3 would overtake it speaks even greater volumes. The PS3 was supposed to blow by and greatly outdistance a perfectly reliable 360, not maybe eek out a victory over a unreliable one a decade down the road. Cows are continually lower expectations to claim victory, when they wuold have considered the sceanrio that has happened a failure if you laid it out for them 2 years ago.Steppy_76

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"][QUOTE="Bren128"] A) The problem with the rate at which consoles are selling theory is this '' Consoles sell much better as time goes on' Why? because of price cuts, so who really knows how long itll be before the ps3 passes up the 360 ? i know sales will pick up !And your discounting price as a factor, PRICE IS THE MAIN FACTOR. KNOW THIS the ps3 outsells the 360 with a higher price point, that in simple terms means there is more demand for the ps3 then there is the 360, now im not a fool, you can get a 360 for cheaper then a wii right now . so of course the arcade will continue to outsell the 400$ ps3, sony needs a price cut plain and simple and itll put them ahead just like they were last year and most of this year. A response) Consoles sell better as time goes on, not just the PS3. The 360 has had a console at the sweet spot people have been talking about since launch for 3 whole months, and lo and behold sales have increase. I'm not discounting price, I'm looking at the fact that the 360 is cheaper, and will continue to be cheaper than the PS3. If there are X amount of people that will buy machines at certain pricepoints, with the 360 hitting those pricepoints first they'll eat into the potential base for the PS3. Also, being MILDLY ahead isn't enough to eat away at the lead that is currently expanding. Lastly, Cows ALWAYS say the PS3 outsold the 360 since launch, yet the PS3 is still about as far behind as it was two years ago...how can the PS3 be outselling the 360 and NOT gain ground? Is this some new cow math? Oh that's because they assume the PS3 has killed the 360 in the region where we get no real numbers about sales...Europe. A price cut will do what, put them ahead? No, it will put them back even. b) Most of the gaming market is still out there, they havent bought a next gen console yet, because of price. imo once sony drops the price and makes the ps3 more competitive sales wise, sales numbers will surge and we will see the ps3 really take off. b response) you assume they are only waiting for the PS3...the 360 wasn't in that mass market pricing either until just recently. It's not like the 360 was cheap and the PS3 was expensive, it was that they were BOTH expensive with the PS3 just being more expensive. Many of those your counting on for the PS3 will get the 360. c) so im going to show everyone how this works most of the gaming market is waiting for the console which they desire to hit that sweet price point, all signs point to that console as being the ps3. and once the ps3 hits that sweet point, i think it will really start to pull away from the 360. so what are you willing to bet that the ps3 will pass the 360 well before 2020? because i will remember you and message you when it does. :)Bren128

The reason 360 needs a price cut to beat out the PS3 is because many ps2 fans bought a PS3 just because they liked PS2. As in, it doesnt matter that the 360 is a better console, they reduse to get it because its not PS3. That's why its an uphill battle for MS and they deserve extra credit for getting as far as they have against such prejiduce. I know people who got a PS3 because they had a PS2 and never even touched a nintendo for example. They assumed that gaming didnt start until playstation entered the ring, which is total BS by the way. 360 has better features and games and its cheaper, but they have to battle blind fanboyish loyalty for those who don't know any better.

[QUOTE="Bren128"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]You are basing your entire argument on the hope that all these people are waiting on the PS3. The 360 has now hit that price point, and IS pulling away from the PS3...this isn't conjecture like your using this is what is happening. Just like the hardcore before them just as readily chose the 360 vs. the PS3, the casual will follow suit. I won't bet on the PS3 passing the 360 by 2020, because making a 12 year bet is just stupid...I will bet that the PS3 will not outsell the 360 before the next gen starts. I'll even go one further, every december we can revisit this and see if the PS3 has managed to ever make it's rate of sales increase enough to project it being ahead of the 360 in 2020. Phazevariance

The reason 360 needs a price cut to beat out the PS3 is because many ps2 fans bought a PS3 just because they liked PS2. As in, it doesnt matter that the 360 is a better console, they reduse to get it because its not PS3. That's why its an uphill battle for MS and they deserve extra credit for getting as far as they have against such prejiduce. I know people who got a PS3 because they had a PS2 and never even touched a nintendo for example. They assumed that gaming didnt start until playstation entered the ring, which is total BS by the way. 360 has better features and games and its cheaper, but they have to battle blind fanboyish loyalty for those who don't know any better.

[QUOTE="Steppy_76"][QUOTE="Bren128"] A) The problem with the rate at which consoles are selling theory is this '' Consoles sell much better as time goes on' Why? because of price cuts, so who really knows how long itll be before the ps3 passes up the 360 ? i know sales will pick up !And your discounting price as a factor, PRICE IS THE MAIN FACTOR. KNOW THIS the ps3 outsells the 360 with a higher price point, that in simple terms means there is more demand for the ps3 then there is the 360, now im not a fool, you can get a 360 for cheaper then a wii right now . so of course the arcade will continue to outsell the 400$ ps3, sony needs a price cut plain and simple and itll put them ahead just like they were last year and most of this year. A response) Consoles sell better as time goes on, not just the PS3. The 360 has had a console at the sweet spot people have been talking about since launch for 3 whole months, and lo and behold sales have increase. I'm not discounting price, I'm looking at the fact that the 360 is cheaper, and will continue to be cheaper than the PS3. If there are X amount of people that will buy machines at certain pricepoints, with the 360 hitting those pricepoints first they'll eat into the potential base for the PS3. Also, being MILDLY ahead isn't enough to eat away at the lead that is currently expanding. Lastly, Cows ALWAYS say the PS3 outsold the 360 since launch, yet the PS3 is still about as far behind as it was two years ago...how can the PS3 be outselling the 360 and NOT gain ground? Is this some new cow math? Oh that's because they assume the PS3 has killed the 360 in the region where we get no real numbers about sales...Europe. A price cut will do what, put them ahead? No, it will put them back even. b) Most of the gaming market is still out there, they havent bought a next gen console yet, because of price. imo once sony drops the price and makes the ps3 more competitive sales wise, sales numbers will surge and we will see the ps3 really take off. b response) you assume they are only waiting for the PS3...the 360 wasn't in that mass market pricing either until just recently. It's not like the 360 was cheap and the PS3 was expensive, it was that they were BOTH expensive with the PS3 just being more expensive. Many of those your counting on for the PS3 will get the 360. c) so im going to show everyone how this works most of the gaming market is waiting for the console which they desire to hit that sweet price point, all signs point to that console as being the ps3. and once the ps3 hits that sweet point, i think it will really start to pull away from the 360. so what are you willing to bet that the ps3 will pass the 360 well before 2020? because i will remember you and message you when it does. :)Bren128

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"]

[QUOTE="Bren128"] Ok what exactly are you trying to say? the ps3 and 360 will be within 50$ of each other eventually. the 360 wont always be cheaper, thats bs. Im saying theres more demand because MS needed a price cut in order for the 360 to pass the ps3 in sales again, and from what we do know the ps3 is more pouplar in europe and japan. My evidence for people waiting to buy a ps3 is the fact that it was more expensive and still outsold the 360! Why was that? why did that happen? because THERE IS MORE DEMAND FOR SONY AND PS3 BRAND. Hell it even outsold the 360 in the states! it either or outsold it or was neck and neck with a higher price point. What your trying to say is : Even if sony cuts the price again in march, it still wont outsell the 360 by any large numbers. what im trying to say is: once it hits the sweet spot, yes it will . desyple

The reason 360 needs a price cut to beat out the PS3 is because many ps2 fans bought a PS3 just because they liked PS2. As in, it doesnt matter that the 360 is a better console, they reduse to get it because its not PS3. That's why its an uphill battle for MS and they deserve extra credit for getting as far as they have against such prejiduce. I know people who got a PS3 because they had a PS2 and never even touched a nintendo for example. They assumed that gaming didnt start until playstation entered the ring, which is total BS by the way. 360 has better features and games and its cheaper, but they have to battle blind fanboyish loyalty for those who don't know any better.

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

To the tune of the Itchy and Sctratcghy Theme from the Simpsons:

Just Wait

Just Wait

Just Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

Wait Wait Wait

The Sony PS3...

nervmeister

[QUOTE="Bren128"][QUOTE="Steppy_76"]You are basing your entire argument on the hope that all these people are waiting on the PS3. The 360 has now hit that price point, and IS pulling away from the PS3...this isn't conjecture like your using this is what is happening. Just like the hardcore before them just as readily chose the 360 vs. the PS3, the casual will follow suit. I won't bet on the PS3 passing the 360 by 2020, because making a 12 year bet is just stupid...I will bet that the PS3 will not outsell the 360 before the next gen starts. I'll even go one further, every december we can revisit this and see if the PS3 has managed to ever make it's rate of sales increase enough to project it being ahead of the 360 in 2020. Steppy_76