How JRPGs can learn from FFXIII

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]I haven't played FFXIII yet, but I can say that JRPGs should take some notes from Resonance of Fate.princemarth23

Like what?

There is no reason why towns should even exist as towns. There's no reason why a game has to divy up it's gameplay into distinct "dungeons" or "towns." In some ways, FFXIII does just this. PalumPorum has been descriebd as a "town" and a "dungeon," but really gameplaywise it's more of a middle ground, defying definition in order to meet the needs of the game at that certain point and time.

More games need to take this approach to areas. Undefined game structure is a positive direction imo, although FFXIII didn't handle it perfectly because it was imbalanced.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="good_sk8er7"]

Personally, I hope no developers pick up anything from FFXIII. I really do not want to see more of it.

Its ok. But really not addictive and I don't like the fact that I have no freedom at all.

Kashiwaba

I dont get the no freedom which people talk about in FF13 all JRPGs have been like this for ages if you dont like this then most of JRPGs are not for you go play WRPGs.

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] Someone here needs to play Ninja gadien and Bayonneta. Action games have alot of strategy.dreman999

Already beat both of NGS and Bayonetta and I wasnt doing anything except jumping and hitting triangle and square (thats for bayonetta)

I guess this enough to show you that I did play it.

[QUOTE="princemarth23"]

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]I haven't played FFXIII yet, but I can say that JRPGs should take some notes from Resonance of Fate.xsubtownerx

Like what?

How is the game? I wanna buy it, but figure i'll rent first. From what i've seen the story is a little bit of a letdown and seen as never really coming together in a few reviews. Looks awesome though.

I haven't played FFXIII yet, but I can say that JRPGs should take some notes from Resonance of Fate.xsubtownerx

I will buy this after I beat Yakuza 3 I liked its Japanese demo.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

Already beat both of NGS and Bayonetta and I wasnt doing anything except jumping and hitting triangle and square (thats for bayonetta)

I guess this enough to show you that I did play it.

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]If you say that's the only thing you did than you never played those games.

dreman999

I guess this enough to show you that I did play it.

Sorry but I dont like beating games which I dont like very much more than once and still if it only needs strategies when playing on hard then I should consider it as a fail game.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

I guess this enough to show you that I did play it.

Sorry but I dont like beating games which I dont like very much more than once and still if it only needs strategies when playing on hard then I should consider it as a fail game.

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] .......Only normal?dreman999

Sorry but I dont like beating games which I dont like very much more than once and still if it only needs strategies when playing on hard then I should consider it as a fail game.

Seriously get over it after all that and you say I didnt play it seems its a waste of time to argue with you.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

There is no reason why towns should even exist as towns. There's no reason why a game has to divy up it's gameplay into distinct "dungeons" or "towns." In some ways, FFXIII does just this. PalumPorum has been descriebd as a "town" and a "dungeon," but really gameplaywise it's more of a middle ground, defying definition in order to meet the needs of the game at that certain point and time.

More games need to take this approach to areas. Undefined game structure is a positive direction imo, although FFXIII didn't handle it perfectly because it was imbalanced.

Oscar-Wilde

That's because it's still adhering to defined gameplay. Why do inn-like features have to only be in towns?

[QUOTE="Kashiwaba"]

[QUOTE="good_sk8er7"]

Personally, I hope no developers pick up anything from FFXIII. I really do not want to see more of it.

Its ok. But really not addictive and I don't like the fact that I have no freedom at all.

Dahaka-UK

I dont get the no freedom which people talk about in FF13 all JRPGs have been like this for ages if you dont like this then most of JRPGs are not for you go play WRPGs.

The previous FF games included far more x mashing than FFXIII. Even with auto battle off, you're going to have to switch paradigms frequently or you're going to die. FFXIII's battles are far more active than ever before. And if you're using auto battle and it's ruining your battle, then shame on you for using it. Just change the settings in your menu and select your own attacks.

Previous FF games may have included some sort of illusion of freedom - a divided world map that utilizes makeshift "hallways" by blocking the way with mountains and rivers, full of mindless fights that could be fought without even looking at the screen 90% of the time. If you don't pay attention in FFXIII, you'll die. So while the maps might not be as substantial, I think the gameplay is better overall. That being said, the map design is one of my key points of what "not to do" in my OP.

I take it Alexander O'Smith doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

I take it Alexander O'Neal doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

jasonharris48

What did O'Neal translate?

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I take it Alexander O'Neal doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

dreman999

Oh, so you speak Japanese?

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I take it Alexander O'Neal doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

dreman999

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I take it Alexander O'Neal doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

jasonharris48

If we're talking about FFXIII, the dialogue/story took a hit from the translation. If I've learned anything from FFVIII and FFXIII is that you should never assume the dialogue in the game is an accurate translation.

What did O'Neal translate?

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

I take it Alexander O'Neal doesn't translate for Square anymore? O'Neal seemed to always do a great job when it came to translations.

hakanakumono

Oh, so you speak Japanese?

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] It's not that he's not translating. It just what he's translation is badly write. You can blame the director for a badly written plot, and can't for a translating something with such a bad plot.hakanakumono

If we're talking about FFXIII, the dialogue/story took a hit from the translation. If I've learned anything from FFVIII and FFXIII is that you should never assume the dialogue in the game is an accurate translation.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"] I can't comment since I don't read nor understand Japanese. So I can't say if the original source was any good or not.

jasonharris48

If we're talking about FFXIII, the dialogue/story took a hit from the translation. If I've learned anything from FFVIII and FFXIII is that you should never assume the dialogue in the game is an accurate translation.

Japanese isn't so different from English that lines can't be translated in a way that communicates the original meaning of the text. For Edea's speech in VIII, the translator completely missed the point (and thus the English ver doesn't make sense), and in FFXIII some lines weren't even "translated," but were just rewritten as whatever the tranlsator felt like writing.

SPOILERS FOR FFXIII

This isn't an example of dialogue, but for some reason" "the gods" were translated as "the Maker" - which causes a plothole when the game refers to a goddess figure as opposed to a single "Maker" creator-figure. Why did the translator decide to go from many gods to just one god? I guess he just felt like it? That's just an example of the attitude that is taken in a lot of dialogue, etc in FFXIII. Yes, the dialogue is pretty bad in the English ver. I wonder why ...

^ I can't remember Eda's speech to save my life lol. Well it's a good thing I just started back to playing FFVIII. :D

^ I can't remember Eda's speech to save my life lol. Well it's a good thing I just started back to playing FFVIII. :D

jasonharris48

The problem with Edea's speech is that the Japanese language is so vague that it could mean multiple things. It's written to be confusing and trick you until it's explained later on, but with English everything has to be definite so there is room for misinterpretation. Basically the 1st half of the speech was condensed and the 2nd half was completely ignored.

@ Hakanakumono,

I'd like to add to the translating section for future JRPGs. If the developers or the company can, it would be great to have the original dialogue & soundtrack with subtitles included as an option. Might as well utilize the space that is available on Blu-ray. I understand it might be difficult for Multiplat games since the 360 is using the DVD format but now that it is capable for installing games on to the HD, I think it could be included in a seperate disc which could be installed on the HD as an optional install OR if that's just too much to do, well just leave it out of the 360 version & give it to the PS3 version as an added benefit like the playable Joker in Batman: AA.

I like FF13 a lot, but obviously it has quite a few flaws that prevent it from being truly great. The pacing in the first 9 or so chapters is just not good at all. I didn't like not being able to control which character I wanted to use. The story is average at best, but there have been many times where I've rolled my eyes at how corny and cliche some scenes were. It's not terrible, but it just needed more. I do like the battle system and the Cieth Stone missions (when you finally are able to do them), so overall I really enjoy the game. It's darn awesome actually when I think about it. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a tad disappointed.

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][QUOTE="princemarth23"]

Like what?

lundy86_4

How is the game? I wanna buy it, but figure i'll rent first. From what i've seen the story is a little bit of a letdown and seen as never really coming together in a few reviews. Looks awesome though.

I'm not sure if I agree with hakanakumono on the issue of translation. I can't help but feel sometimes re-writing is in part necessary to get around the language barrier or to stop dialogue being stilted. However the translation misses in FFXIII weren't born from those kinds of issues and really are just a tad strange. I wonder if having a "notes" feature like you have in manga's with translation notes might help somewhat? Of course that would always have the player knowing they are playing a translated version of a game and snap them out of it but tbh having bad translation and sketchy voice acting has the same effect anyway.Articuno76

With Japanese, most lines are going to have to be rewritten to evoke the same meaning but in a different way. What's not cool is when the translator doesn't even bother with conveying the original meaning.

The translation of FFXIII is just weird. The English ver was a very different experience for me because of it; Dialogue really does make a huge difference on how scenes play out.

@ Hakanakumono,

I'd like to add to the translating section for future JRPGs. If the developers or the company can, it would be great to have the original dialogue & soundtrack with subtitles included as an option. Might as well utilize the space that is available on Blu-ray. I understand it might be difficult for Multiplat games since the 360 is using the DVD format but now that it is capable for installing games on to the HD, I think it could be included in a seperate disc which could be installed on the HD as an optional install OR if that's just too much to do, well just leave it out of the 360 version & give it to the PS3 version as an added benefit like the playable Joker in Batman: AA.

envybianchi

To me that seems like accepting defeat. "We know we're incompetent at translating, so here's the Japanese ver with translators notes!" The thing about subtitles is that they're always going to be based off of the dub dialogue, becuase if you have an altenate more "accurate" subtitle feature it's basically asking the translator to do twice the work.

What we really need is for

1. Games to resync English lip movements like FFXIII (which is wasted on a bad translation).

2. GOOD TRANSLATIONS

[QUOTE="envybianchi"]

@ Hakanakumono,

I'd like to add to the translating section for future JRPGs. If the developers or the company can, it would be great to have the original dialogue & soundtrack with subtitles included as an option. Might as well utilize the space that is available on Blu-ray. I understand it might be difficult for Multiplat games since the 360 is using the DVD format but now that it is capable for installing games on to the HD, I think it could be included in a seperate disc which could be installed on the HD as an optional install OR if that's just too much to do, well just leave it out of the 360 version & give it to the PS3 version as an added benefit like the playable Joker in Batman: AA.

hakanakumono

To me that seems like accepting defeat. "We know we're incompetent at translating, so here's the Japanese ver with translators notes!" The thing about subtitles is that they're always going to be based off of the dub dialogue, becuase if you have an altenate more "accurate" subtitle feature it's basically asking the translator to do twice the work.

What we really need is for

1. Games to resync English lip movements like FFXIII (which is wasted on a bad translation).

2. GOOD TRANSLATIONS

By no means am I insinuating that we (Americans) are incompetent at translating but there are some things that are often lost in translation. For example, The translated character's voices do NOT match with the original character itself or often times the translated character's emotions aren't up to par with what is going on screen when it is translated. I could go on but let's just keep it at that. Please keep in mind I'm basing this off of Animes & previous Japanese & foreign films & games I've enjoyed over the years. There are Animes that have done a fairly good job at dubbing but those are very far & few in between. I haven't had the pleasure to play FFXIII so I can't comment on how the dubbed version is.

My point being is to include the original voices & soundtrack with the dubbed version so everyone can have a choice of which version they would rather play through when starting the game REGARDLESS of how good the English Translation/Dubbed version is. Please understand first & foremost that this is just an OPTION for the US & European versions if it is possible through the Developers or whomever that makes the decision to include it or not. It's also a nice touch/option for those who are Die Hard Anime/Japanese Culture American Fans or those who are learning Japanese or those who are Japanese who live in the US, Europe & so on the choice to play the game in its native language.

I imagine this option should be possible especially for the PS3 since the Blu-ray disc has the space to do so. It could be made as exclusive deal for the PS3 but again it could be offered on the 360 as long as it is installed to the HD to keep things "equal" or the "same" for both consoles. It would be a hassle for those who bought an Arcade Model but that's Microsoft's fault for not keeping the system consistent throughout its lifespan BUT I digress. That is a different topic/issue for another time.

^ I can't remember Eda's speech to save my life lol. Well it's a good thing I just started back to playing FFVIII. :D

jasonharris48

Excellent choice in Rpgs my friend FF8 is my personal fav. I finally reached Gran Pulse yesterday so all my shackles are freed. And if enjoy the game much more than in the first couple of hours. At first when i realized it didnt have to heal after battles i was kinda dismayed. But after awhile i grew to like this feature and also the retry feature is a godsend. So i hope rpgs adopt those streamlining features but i want my towns back

In FFXIII, a normal forest is the staging for the character development of two major characters and it sets the stage for the next portion in the plot. Normally in a JRPG, areas like the Gapra Whitewood are merely filler with little to no contribution or relevance to the story (aside from maybe being interesting scenarios the characters encounter). By including cutscenes interspersed throughout the forest, it was able to make a meaningful contribution to the story. JRPGs can benefit from making sure all of the areas in the game are purposeful or meaningful. hakanakumono