How things are changing.

@charizard1605: Taking into account who the TC is, then Nintendo is being entirely ignored. Still good to see him post something sensible for a change

I didn´t spend 400+ bucks to purchase me a system to play games that look like something I played at the arcade in the 80´s at premium prices, ****, if you tell me X or Y indie game cost 5 bucks hell, maybe I will buy it, but 15-20 bucks for a modern version of Dig Dug ---> FU.

almost all of these indies could run on Wii U with little issue. Kinda makes you wonder what the point of the power of the X1 and PS4 are. I'd take indies over the AAA disasters that have been assaulting gaming the last couple years.

So put Ryse on there. His point is still valid...the one you seem to be missing.

@SonySoldier-_-: Damn you cows are insecure

Well if it would make you guys feel better the TC can take out The Master Flop Collection and replace it with the Lems Graphics King, which is also a corridor game like The Order.

RYSE with an impressive 4.0 score

A few games isn't enough to make a generalization. It's a case by case basis.

Its been going on for a while and many people on this forum have been expressing their dislike of QTE movie games for a few years. Its about time reviewers stopped rating games based on how much marketing hype they have and admit those games are shit, im glad some reviewers are.

indies offer some of the best, most rewarding gameplay experiences and this is especially true on consoles right now. How things change though! Last gen all the console gamers where saying about indies was; "LOL indie games!".

Oh I thought that no matter how broken/short/lacking real gameplay you made your game, as long as your marketing/hype budget is huge and you have fancy graphics it'll still sell a boatload.

every single PS1 game was published by a publisher. In those times console manufacturers did not give SDK's to random devs, that's why indies thrived on PC first, which is more open, and then they were brought to consoles through digital releases and self-publishing efforts with the help of Sony and MS of-course since the console environment is completely closed.

But indies don't face any of the issues you'd encounter on old PS1 games. Many of them are actually very well made, use recent tech, have clever gameplay, beautiful art-styles, etc. It's just that I simply don't find these small games to be particularly enjoyable. I'd rather be using my time on something else than playing Binding of Isaac or Shovel Knight or that pretentious hipster mess, Life if Strange.

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@tormentos said:

The message is clear a game doesn't nee to be huge and great looking to be fun.

Honestly PC gamers have been saying this for years now and its great that console gamers are listening finally. I love that the indie scene has burst onto consoles so spectacularly this gen, its so good for gaming in general. Indies aren't the same as big blockbusters, they don't have the same graphics or budget, but that doesn't mean they are any less enjoyable.

I think that console gaming had been in danger of stagnating and you were seeing the big publishers just rinsing and repeating the same games and type of games over and over. Not only is it great for all of us but hopefully it will inspire new generations of designers to create more gems and that the only option isn't working for one of the big gaming monoliths and putting out FIFA or AC or COD year after year.

Here's to gaming and everyone having a better experience.

U have no idea how huge and poweful FIFA is in EU...

Its grip is worst than that of heroin on 10 years junkies...

@Bread_or_Decide: not true at all. Yeah vita is home to amazing indies, but there are tons of good games there that aren't indies. Problem is people bad mouth games like borderlands 2 and jak collection for not being perfect console ports... a few frame drops, not a big deal, it's a handheld not a console.. people's expectations need to be tempered. Ironically the same people praise the 3ds and it's smaller localized library of 3rd party goods, but never complain about graphics that are worse than psp and those games have framed rips too as well as most games having chibi models for characters (not hating love both just pointing out hypocrisy )

I just picked up tales of hearts r, altielier rorona plus, disgaea 4 , ninja Gaiden sigma 2 plus, and sword art online for vita... All non indies... All rock! I guess if u dislike Japanese made games you could ha e the perception of mostly indies, but that's just because western aaa devs avoid handhelds and stick to stupid pay 2 win on mobile..ughh

Microsoft delivered several fantastic high quality releases last year though.

Are you assuming that all indie games are small and/or short? Because that's like saying that all shooters are Call of Duty. Time goes on and you die regardless of what you do, my personal advice would be to reach out of your comfy comfort zone and actually try out these games you deem unworthy. You might be surprised how slow time flies wen you experience something unique.

Treat games as equal regardless of their budget, and judge their quality based on your enjoyment. Why is that so hard?

That's the problem. People automatically give indies a negative connotation because the massive amounts of shovelware and short flash-like games skewer perception. There is more to what defines a game than a budget, and indie is not a genre. It's a shit term that should disappear because of its ridiculous miss use.

His point is not valid. Virtually ever Call of Duty game scores AAA, virtually every Mario and Zelda game scores AAA, all Halo (main franchise game) games have scored AAA, All main Forza games have been AA/AAA, and Gran Turismo games have been AA/AAA, all Uncharted games have scored AA/AAA, all God Of War games have been AA/AAA, the list goes on and on.

At best, some indies are getting noticed and are more than just arcade games. But, to say that indies are replacing major franchises as "premier" titles is asinine.

I honestly think a lot of these indi games are overrated shit. The only ones I really enjoyed were trine. I am looking forward to ori and the blind Forrest and I need to check out Transistor. Outside of that they don't do much for me.

also check out 'Dust' my man. It is a fantastic game and very underrated here.

Critics are doing a better job at focusing on gameplay and functionality over superficial jazz. Indies have filled a void in gaming and in a way they represent a continuation of the spirit of the 16-bit era.

I'd venture to say that flopping a game can generate as much traffic as giving it a free pass based on marketing hype. There's no harm in just being honest, and frankly if the journos aren't they will get called out for it.

And Grand Theft Auto V scored a 9 on the PS4 and Xbox One.

Good games get good scores, not these rushed and half-assed AAA titles

@playharderfool: ahh I forgot that. Yes I actually enjoyed that too. I need to beat it though. I'm also looking forward to mighty no 9. Although I don't know if you can consider it Indy since its from the creator of mega man.

this is a great post^

people act like indies are a new thing. they aren't. They been on PC for a long time, Xbox brought them to consoles with the XBL arcade. There were tons of them last gen and MS had a bunch, but nobody gave 2 flying fucks about it except for a few of them that grew popular like braid or limbo. PS owners were busy with god of war, GT, uncharted, TLOU and xbox owners with halo, gears, forza/PGR, fable etc, and of course the CoD, GTA, Sports crowd on all platforms. The thing is cows now hype these games and use it as an excuse for lack of AAA support. MS hasn't been lighting the world on fire either. we haven't seen this gens UC, gears, halo, mass effect etc yet. It'll come eventually, it always does but we just haven't gotten it. But going around pretending you paid 400-500 dollars on an upgrade day 1 to play games you could have played 20 years ago on a SNES is just a joke. You could play much better "8 bit indie style games" with an emulator on a 15 year old PC running sega genesis, SNES, NES etc. We buy new systems for new experiance and most important bigger and better games. Games that weren't possible 10 years ago. When 99% of your library on your brand new 400 dollar state of the art PS4 can be played on an iphone, it makes your device useless. I have kids and a family and not wasting time with these crap games. And anyone saying they got a PS4 for indies is just kidding themselves. I got my XB1 and PS4 for bigger and better games then my 360 and PS3 could provide me. XB has given a few with sunset, DR3, Ryse (yes i actually liked it), Titanfall (yes its technically on the 360 but runs off XB1 servers) but my PS4 has given me a wad of crap so far, and quite honestly it sucks. The order was a turd, killzone is literally the worst FPS franchise out there, yet we still get sequels for some unknown reason, infamous is a bore, knack is a running joke (which honestly I didn't play so w/e) If you are really a PS4 fan like I am, you'd tell sony to cut the shit and make a good AAA game, not make excuses so they can continue to pile shit down your throat.

People, take a look at this Indie game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaZqV0o7EW4

and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeIqZ12Khek

It's fair seeing how lackluster the Indie game library is on Nintendo systems.

Even then, I personally have been enjoying Indie games more consistently than what's been coming out of Nintendo for some time now.

2008 mate, because Braid and World of Goo were clowning triple A games in 2008.

stahp it robby

And a few years ago, cows would have just ignored every one of them since indie games "don't count".

As it should be.. These indie devs are willing to take risks and target niche groups.. These devs don't have shareholders and a board of executives (who have absolutely no idea about gaming outside of reading charts and graphs) breathing down their necks in wanting unrealistic expectations.. What we are getting with AAA are massive budgets with the expectation of massive sales, this has led to many devs to dumbing down their games or copying franchises ad nauseum for their pay days.. Its not enough that these games pull a good profit with a few million copies sold on one platform.. They now want tens of millions sold on multiple platforms because they saw another game do it..

This became so fucking obvious with World of Warcraft.. Before WoW a healthy and good mmo ranged anywhere from 100k to maybe a million subscribers if you were lucky.. When WoW produced numbers in the 5 to 10 million subscribers range, breaking all expectations, that suddenly became the new expectation for many of these publishers for their MMO's.. They tried copying WoW and sinking tons of money into it in the expectation of huge numbers.. Leading to the collapse of many of these shortly after..

Yeah in what world is something like Divinity Original Sin, a indie title, a filler? It holds more quality content than 99% of the AAA budget games out there, along with tons of replayability.. We then have simplistic looking games like Terraria (that is constantly getting huge updates for free I might add) with people sinking hundreds to thousands of hours into it more than AAA titles..

It's been like this for years, except console gamers always loved to pretend indies don't exist, try to claim they purchased their consoles for the cutting edge tech AAA titles

I think that No Man's Sky could (possibly) be a massive watershed moment in gaming. When an indie releases a game seemingly completely in touch with something gamers have wanted and the AAA Megapublishers who are seemingly completely out of touch with what makes it work.

The fun part will be seeing companies like Square-Enix or Bethesda that have almost infinite resources try to follow their lead. An industry shakeup is at hand and I fully welcome the new blood and also welcome the established brands to keep pace.

As long as there is a healthy ecosystem of gamers buying these games, things could be looking awfully good for gamers this "generation".

There is barely any miss use to it.

Independent studio, independent development, smaller team projects, mother fuckers put way too much into separating these shits instead of getting down to the bottom line. A good game is a good game is a good game.

Braid isn't an excellent indie game, it's an excellent game period, one of last generations best. Likewise Ori assuming it lives up to the billing isn't just a sign of things other indie developers could do better, but other triple A developers that make platformers, such as Nintendo.

@True_Gamer_: lol I'm from the UK

This is not pixelated, this is a beautiful art style.

Yeah, I like FM5 (not into FH). I tried Sunset, and may get it when it's cheaper. I've played the Halo's before. But I just thought this gen would be delivering something more by now.

Cows are being hypocrites though. I said when the consoles launched that as soon as the PS4 get its good exclusives going, they'll stop giving a **** about multiplats and indies again. They certainly acted like they didn't count last gen.

Why bother buying a PS4 or Xbox One to play indie games.

Indeed. Completely agree.

Glad you do, too!

But sometimes people don't look for the fanciest newly invented desert in town, all they want is just a juicy steak for dinner after a day of work.

A good game is a good game, and some indies are amazing!

I would take a game like Rogue Legacy or Spelunky over a new yearly Assassin's Creed or CoD any day.

Suddenly indies are cool! make up your mind guys!

anyways for me personally its all about the story and enjoyment so wither a game gets a 1 or a 10 i couldnt care less and most of these 9's and 8 games arent my thing. For example Olli Olli 2 is free right now on PS+ but didnt download it or have any interest to do so because its just not the kind of game i would play or helldivers another game that just dosent seem like something i'd play meanwhile games like The Order now thats a game that i am interested in and highly want.

I look at it more in the way of websites attempting to regain credibility. Just look at this forum. There is a silly hype game people do which is essentially mocking the reviews on this site. Nobody takes them seriously anymore and with the popularity of youtube and dedicated gaming channels on it, a real well thought out review can almost always be found.

It's legitimately hard to **** up an indie game when the dev team in question has the required experience. AAA games however are almost impossible to perfect, not due to incompetence, but because of the ambitious scale they tend to have (without the ambitious scale, they're either a bad AAA game or not an AAA game at all).

@Heirren: Wait, are you saying sites are scoring "indies" high to gain credibility? I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying before I respond.

Simply, good games have a higher score than shitty games.

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/idarb-review/1900-6416024/

8Great

Yup, scored 2 full points higher than MCC :o seems totally legit hahahaha. :P

@tormentos made this thread so he could start using his "PS4 vs XB1" score card again (which shows a hefty advantage to the PS4 because of indie titles) after receiving several thrashings over the validity of such a thing.

And a lot of you fell for it...

Aqua Kitty for the win!!!

Yep. This game is sooo much better. /sarcasm

Although, you watch - there will be someone who will eventually say that it is better, and mean it.