I wish developers would stop sharing PC's best franchises with 360

TC this is nothing new, this has been going on for years.

Do any of these games look familiar?

Console gaming has been casualing PC games for years and don't even get me started on stuff like auto-aim and the lot. All this is happeneing while those on the boards actually praise these games and accuse the Wii for being too casual and destroying the industry.

Gunraidan

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's realized this........

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's realized this........

trix5817

Seems like me, you, and Blackbond are the only ones who see this.

[QUOTE="froidnite"][QUOTE="LockeAteid"][QUOTE="froidnite"][QUOTE="Medjai"]

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"]It would stop, but apparently developers really like money.iunderstand

You do know, the OB has sold twice as many copies on the PC then on the Xbox (excluding online sales), right?

My sarcasm detector uses a hand crank.

mine uses a hampster wheel, you're so last gen.

Also I agree with the TC. I never even finished OB or bioshock due to boredom. Rainbow 6 vegas and the new ghost recon games make me want to vomit they are so dumbed down and bad from their former days.

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

manningbowl135

I think you've missed the point and them some.

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

manningbowl135

You're missing the point. The TC is talking about PC games getting dumbed down because of multiplats shared with consoles.

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

trix5817

You're missing the point. The TC is talking about PC games getting dumbed down because of multiplats shared with consoles.

I know. It works this way. PC is for rather hardcore (don't like that word) gamers and consoles are more casual. So for a PC game to go to console, it must be casualized a bit. But b/c of this relationship, you get some of console's best games as well. GeoW is probably a really good game. So it's all about do you think the trade-off is worth it. Some great games dumbed down for great console games.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

manningbowl135

You're missing the point. The TC is talking about PC games getting dumbed down because of multiplats shared with consoles.

I know. It works this way. PC is for rather hardcore (don't like that word) gamers and consoles are more casual. So for a PC game to go to console, it must be casualized a bit. But b/c of this relationship, you get some of console's best games as well. GeoW is probably a really good game. So it's all about do you think the trade-off is worth it. Some great games dumbed down for great console games.

You do realize that the creators of GeoW, Epic, used to be a hardcore PC dev, right? That's why many people were upset that GeoW was a 360 exclusive........

I know. It works this way. PC is for rather hardcore (don't like that word) gamers and consoles are more casual. So for a PC game to go to console, it must be casualized a bit. But b/c of this relationship, you get some of console's best games as well. GeoW is probably a really good game. So it's all about do you think the trade-off is worth it. Some great games dumbed down for great console games.

manningbowl135

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's the same way. You get 360's games (GeoW) and 360 gets your games. That's why the 360s gaming library is so good. Not only does it have better exclusives than PS3 so far, b/c of it's close connection to the PC, it gets PC games that PS3 don't get.

KEY: Notice I didn't say exclusives library.

trix5817

You're missing the point. The TC is talking about PC games getting dumbed down because of multiplats shared with consoles.

I know. It works this way. PC is for rather hardcore (don't like that word) gamers and consoles are more casual. So for a PC game to go to console, it must be casualized a bit. But b/c of this relationship, you get some of console's best games as well. GeoW is probably a really good game. So it's all about do you think the trade-off is worth it. Some great games dumbed down for great console games.

You do realize that the creators of GeoW, Epic, used to be a hardcore PC dev, right? That's why many people were upset that GeoW was a 360 exclusive........

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

manningbowl135

The amount of self-ownage you post is astounding. Not only are you completely missing hte point, but you also keep listing devs. that were originally PC exclusive and switch to console as your arguement.

Yeah, it's a sad thing, but what's ya gonna do, hardcore/oldschool PC gamers are a dying breed, well maybe not dying but their numbers aren't increasing either, and all the while casuals are breeding like rats. Can't really blame the companies for taking the easy road. Dumbed down games sell better not only on consoles but on PC as well, so making a simple multiplat game is the obvious solution instead of making a simpler version for consoles and a hardcore version for PC which something like GRAW has attempted.

At least PC still attracts new small developers who make more hardcore PC exclusives like Stalker and The Witcher even if their later games will eventually become those dumbed down multiplats as well.

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

Gunraidan

The amount of self-ownage you post is astounding. Not only are you completely missing hte point, but you also keep listing devs. that were originally PC exclusive and switch to console as your arguement.

Yeah, you beat me to it. I'll take good, quality, deep and complex games exclusively made for the PC instead of crappy console to PC ports anyday.

[QUOTE="too_much_eslim"][QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

DragonfireXZ95

No he is right in some ways. Look at Crysis, in my opinion, this game is better than all of the multiplats I have played. Why? Because the game is different from them? that's not the only reason. The devs aimed to please us Hardcore PC gamers, the game is harder than any console port game I have played, and I love it, I'm playing on hard and it's actually a challenge. The graphics are just amazing, Call of Duty 4's kind of sucked and that's some of the best that consoles have put out. The controls and gameplay were designed solely for the keyboard and mouse. It just plays amazingly. All of this excludes Gears of War, because that port is awesome on the PC. Great controls, better graphics than it's console counterpart, Although Epic really knows how to cater to it's PC players. Except for multiplayer but that's because Microsoft are greedy $^@&*#es. I can see why Microsoft picked one of their main colors as green, it's because they feed on money.

Oblivion was pretty damn fun on PC don't get me wrong, but it also was really easy, had some problems like the inventory/level up menus and such. But mods fixed this so I guess it's not all bad, but Vanilla Oblivion wasn't the best.

Great post, couldn't agree more

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

Grive

No, they're doing it because people ain't buying your non-dumbed down games. It's not getting Xbox'd it's getting consumerized.

Remind me how well did the exclusive System Shock 2 sell.

SS2 was marketed horribly and Ken Levine admitted that in many interviews and in GFW's magazine not to long ago. They aimed at fixing this with Bioshock. Multiplat is better for the bottom line, but platform specific games get hurt in the process. If you play PC and console titles on a regular basis, you would easily understand this. There are tons of PC Games that sell in the millions, they first need to be great though.

TC this is nothing new, this has been going on for years.

Do any of these games look familiar?

Console gaming has been casualing PC games for years and don't even get me started on stuff like auto-aim and the lot. All this is happeneing while those on the boards actually praise these games and accuse the Wii for being too casual and destroying the industry.

Gunraidan

It's comical too. Seeing 360/PS3 owners complain about the Wii ruining the hardcore market is pretty much exactly how many PC Gamers have felt about their games being tuned down for multiplat. It's Bitter sweet in a way.

get off your high end horse hermit.NFJSupreme

yeah, god forbid he voices his displeasure with the way his platform of choice is treated.

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

TheMysticHorse

Could you explain "dumbed down". What do you mean by that?

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

Gunraidan

The amount of self-ownage you post is astounding. Not only are you completely missing hte point, but you also keep listing devs. that were originally PC exclusive and switch to console as your arguement.

Doesn't change the fact that PC is getting console exclusives just as consoles are gettting PC exclusives. And his complain is PC games are getting dumbed down b/c of consoles right? My point is b/c they're getting dumbed down, the PC gets more games in it's library from consoles. It's a trade-off and it's all about whether you like that trade-off. If you don't, well complain. But if you do, then you like how it is now. How is that missing the point?

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

Supafly1

Could you explain "dumbed down". What do you mean by that?

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

Supafly1

Could you explain "dumbed down". What do you mean by that?

He's probably referring to poorly constructed interfaces on PC, limiting environments due to hardware ceiling present in consoles(limited game design), lack of fluidity in the mouse/keyboard controls, games being far too easy thus catering to the masses, and graphics being limited. These are things that I've experienced over the years gaming on both PC and console. The PC never seems to get the better deal, and people that game on both usally understand.

The thing is "gamers" nowadays don't really care about gameplay. People know so care about what the games can do more so then what they can do in the games. People don't play for the game anymore but more so the experience from the game. This is why when games get shorter nobody cares, they don't want to actually play the game but admire what they got from it. I'm sorry but nobody and I truly mean nobody who truly enjoys playing the actual game would accept an 4-8 hour game (unless it was really replayable ala games from the 16-Bit era). Nobody actually talks about things such as tactics, strategy, RPGing, level design, pacing, and polish in games anymore. All they talk about are meaning less things such as graphics, physics, and A.I. Games like S.W.A.T., Rainbow Six, and Operation Flashpoint were.are far more realistic then any of these high profile shooters coming out and they didn't use their cutting edge A.I. Physics are completely useless, no seriously what do they do? I hardly see any games that use them in their core game mechanics. And graphics.....pretty much do nothing as long as they are appealing to the eye.

It's as someone in this thread has said before gaming has changed. Competitive Fighting Games like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and Street Fighter Alpha have been replaced by a bunch of broken console shooters. RPG's from the West are becoming hack-n-slash games while the RPG's from Japan are becoming Westernized or abandoning level grinding and deep combat systems in favor of some action psuedo devil may cry fashion. Real Platforming to show of amazing level design has been replaced by hybrid action shooters or hybrid action games (SMG may be our savor). And all the devs that would make these games anyway don't have the finances to and either disband, make games on XBLA which only limits then to a mere 250MB, or get a brain and make games on the Wii (Grasshopper, Vanillaware).

The thing is "gamers" don't really care about gameplay. People know so care about what the games can do more so then what they can do in the games. People don't play for the game anymore but more so the experience from the game. This is why when games get shorter nobody cares, they don't want to actually play the game but admire what they got from it. I'm sorry but nobody and I truly mean nobody who truly enjoys playing the actual game would accept an 4-8 hour game (unless it was really replayable ala games from the 16-Bit era). Nobody actually talks about things such as tactics, strategy, RPGing, level design, pacing, and polish in games anymore. All they talk about are meaning less things such as graphics, physics, and A.I. Games like S.W.A.T., Rainbow Six, and Operation Flashpoint were.are far more realistic then any of these high profile shooters coming out and they didn't use their cutting edge A.I. Physics are completely useless, no seriously what do they do? I hardly see any games that use them in their core game mechanics. And graphics.....pretty much do nothing as long as they are appealing to the eye.

It's as someone in this thread has said before gaming has changed. Competitive Fighting Games like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and Street Fighter Alpha have been replaced by a bunch of broken console shooters. RPG's from the West are becoming hack-n-slash games while the RPG's from Japan are becoming Westernized or abandoning level grinding and deep combat systems in favor of some action psuedo devil may cry fashion.

Gunraidan

Its funny you bring up the "experience", which Bethesda has ALSO butchered to kingdom come.Vandalvideo

Alll I remember from Oblivion was walking around in big open spaces. :?

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Its funny you bring up the "experience", which Bethesda has ALSO butchered to kingdom come.Gunraidan

Alll I remember from Oblivion was walking around in big open spaces. :?

Hermits your top selling games are Blizzard Chests and Sim expansion packs. If it weren't for consoles and their money making powah you wouldn't even get scraps like Bioshock and Oblivion to whine and complain about.

JiveT

Xbox users forget that the Elder Scroll series is a PC series first, and a Xbox series second. Bioshock was announced for PC first, and was toted as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2. So don't act like we're lucky to get these games.

It's depressing when Xbox users think that games like Rainbow Six, Call of Duty, Ghost Recon, Unreal Tournament, and The Elder Scrolls were originally Xbox games.

Talkin about Fallout here. The original fallout games were all about their adult sence of humor, dark stylings, and turn based gameplay. What did Bethesda do? Took it all out. ALL of it. Every last drop of Fallout was removed. And NOW its being developed with consoles in mind? Why are they even CALLING IT fallout?Vandalvideo

Sadly turn-based gameplay is going out the roof too in RPG's in general. The Western devs. have shuffled them out for a while (I know there are some exceptions like Silent Storm and Troika's workds) but the Japanese devs. have always put them into emphasis. I know I've already said this but nowadays there trying to make the combat nothing but a flashy action game (similar to Star Ocean 3's) it's a little depressing. I mean sure they can be deep but the only one that I've played that has impressed me is Odin Sphere (sadly most people didn't have the patience to fully explore it's battle system nor get far enough in it to experience the challenges). I'm currently playing Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3 and I really enjoy it's combat system.

Well, I'd rather want consoles not to share some titles with PCs.

Example why:

Ooooh. Scary.

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

manningbowl135

The amount of self-ownage you post is astounding. Not only are you completely missing hte point, but you also keep listing devs. that were originally PC exclusive and switch to console as your arguement.

Doesn't change the fact that PC is getting console exclusives just as consoles are gettting PC exclusives. And his complain is PC games are getting dumbed down b/c of consoles right? My point is b/c they're getting dumbed down, the PC gets more games in it's library from consoles. It's a trade-off and it's all about whether you like that trade-off. If you don't, well complain. But if you do, then you like how it is now. How is that missing the point?

The PC has been getting console exclusives for a while now. It's nothing new, and not a trade-off.........

I'll take PC exclusives over console exclusives ANY DAY.

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"]

It's not only GeoW. I only used that as an example b/c it was the most recent. How about Halo and Halo 2? Probably console's best FPS last gen. And PC will probably also get Halo 3 too. Maybe ME too since it's Bioware. I'm not saying everyone has to say getting these games make Bioshock or others getting dumbed down worth it. But maybe it is.

manningbowl135

The amount of self-ownage you post is astounding. Not only are you completely missing hte point, but you also keep listing devs. that were originally PC exclusive and switch to console as your arguement.

Doesn't change the fact that PC is getting console exclusives just as consoles are gettting PC exclusives. And his complain is PC games are getting dumbed down b/c of consoles right? My point is b/c they're getting dumbed down, the PC gets more games in it's library from consoles. It's a trade-off and it's all about whether you like that trade-off. If you don't, well complain. But if you do, then you like how it is now. How is that missing the point?

The PC has been getting console exclusives for a while now. It's nothing new, and not a trade-off.........

I'll take PC exclusives over console exclusives ANY DAY.

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

TheMysticHorse

The console sheep can keep their exclusives. It's not a trade off at all, I'd rather have my PC games remain deep and high quality. I'd rather that than have them dumbed down due to consoles and to be given in return... some more dumbed down titles ported from 360 or whatever. No thanks, if I wanted to play these dumbed down games I'd go and play my consoles.

As for JRPGs, while Final Fantasy XII became a lot like a WRPG, I'd say it hit the perfect balance between a JRPG and WRPG. Just my opinion.

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

SkullboyX

What? Did you just start gaming this generation? You do know that many of Xbox's main franchises and devs were mainly PC only devs before, right?

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

As soon as this happens, they have to simplify the gameplay for the average 360 owner to actually want to buy the game, just like in Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, Bioshock etc. That means the PC game also gets dumbed down and thus these games become almost completely inferior to their PC exclusive predecessors.

Too many PC games are getting Xbox'd, and now it is happening to Fallout. It NEEDS to STOP.

SkullboyX

Well, I'd rather want consoles not to share some titles with PCs.

Example why:

Ooooh. Scary.

IgGy621985

Yeah the characters in WoW, Sims and other lame PC games are much more scary

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"]It would stop, but apparently developers really like money.Medjai

in europe the pc version sold better

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"][QUOTE="Medjai"]

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"]It would stop, but apparently developers really like money.Medjai

Worldwide the PC version outsold the 360 version.

I have no idea how or why.

steam sales don't get counted and that's how many game are sold now.

Again, Consoles are not "dumbing down" the games. The market is. TC makes a note of Bioshock. I'm still waiting on an answer for the sales of System Shock 2.

Grive

It's a game that sold poorly, that's one example. Also to take note is that SS2 came out the same time as HL and Starcraft(HL goes to consoles, but that's a different story, right?), two of the highest selling games in History. The game couldn't have picked a worse time to market, and like I said before which you conveniently ignored, Ken Levine has talked about this in the past a few times in regards to SS2. There are countless console titles that have sold poorly as well. Great PC games for the most part sell very well. Multiplatform development exists to maximize profit, and not necessarily because a PC game happened to sell poor. Halo sells great on Xbox, but MS still releases it on PC because they know it will make further revenues. The third point to make about Bioshock is that 2k Games, under Irrational Games at the time, was under contract to develop for both PC and 360, that was the agreement from 2k (predominantly a console publisher) as Ken had a terrible time selling the game to any publisher. Most companies he spoke with prior to 2k told him that it wasn't an appealing sounding game, which we all know is BS now.

Consoles aren't dumbing down the games, the Mass Market Console Owner(or Parents) is who runs out and buys everything, despite quality, is. To be more specific, I think it's fairly safe to assume most console owners are kids with parents and money to burn, not the average poster on gaming forums. Games have been on a downward spiral for years, and I blame this on the fact that Publishers know they can get away with sub standard games, and also the absolute false notion that PC Gamers are the same type of gamer a console gamer is, that's where problems arise as well.

Again, Consoles are not "dumbing down" the games. The market is.

Grive

I see what you are saying and I agree that the market has cattered more so to "Western" gaming (though I just think it's because it expanded, but that isn't why this is really happening. Dumbing down these and putting them for consoles would have always increase sales. What's dumbing them down is development costs. Planescape Torment, System Shock II, Grim Fandango, these God Grail PC games NEVER sold well. Sysetm Shock II only sold around 250,000 copies, Planescape sold a little over 200,000. These games were never popular to begin with, but the thing was it didn't matter to the developer. Yet in this day of age where it costs a near minimum of 10 million to create a game do you think those 200,000 copies would fly? And just think these are the so called "Legendary" PC titles, if they sold this much then you can only imagine how the lesser known ones did on the market. The developers cannot afford to make a next-gen tactical shooter so they are forced to make it more appealing for an audience. And those that rebel go bankrupt, with Troika being a perfect example of this. The company created nothing but core RPG games and their end was nigh so they gambled their dollars into a little game called Vampire Bloodlines and it sold pitiful shutting the company down with it. For some reason people believe by taking these devs. and having them make pick up and play games with a 250 MB limit is the answer, which IMO is pathetically ridiculous.

PC games you want the RPG back in your RPG's? You want your Tactics back in your Tactical shooter? Well all you need to do is give up those AA shaders and cutting edge physics and the devs would be happy to create them. Sadly most people don't agree with that.

[QUOTE="Medjai"]

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"]It would stop, but apparently developers really like money.froidnite

Last time I heard OB sold more on the PC than on the 360

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Its funny you bring up the "experience", which Bethesda has ALSO butchered to kingdom come.Vandalvideo

Alll I remember from Oblivion was walking around in big open spaces. :?

Yeah, we've been screwed again, and again, and again by these devs who want to abandon the PC and go to the console. First BioWare, now Bethesda. If I didn't like BG2, Morrowind, and KotOR so much (btw, KotOR was the ONLY port from Console to PC that seemed natural and effective), I would be royally pissed at both of them. The sad--and perhaps comical in a painful way--thing is, all of my friends think that the X360 is so "hardcore," and has all these great titles like Elder Scrolls or Call of Duty.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Gunraidan"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Its funny you bring up the "experience", which Bethesda has ALSO butchered to kingdom come.Noldorin2646

Alll I remember from Oblivion was walking around in big open spaces. :?

Yeah, we've been screwed again, and again, and again by these devs who want to abandon the PC and go to the console. First BioWare, now Bethesda. If I didn't like BG2, Morrowind, and KotOR so much (btw, KotOR was the ONLY port from Console to PC that seemed natural and effective), I would be royally pissed at both of them. The sad--and perhaps comical in a painful way--thing is, all of my friends think that the X360 is so "hardcore," and has all these great titles like Elder Scrolls or Call of Duty.

CoD 1 >CoD 4, just saying