ID: The hardware industry is laughing behind software industry's back....

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?Bgrngod

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?Heydanbud92

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

what he was trying to say is that if developers didnt make any games that required big hardware, the hardware companies wouldnt make any money because everyones PC could already handle it.

Not their fault people would rather upgrade than buy a game

After all, you cant DL a GPU for free can you?

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?SF_KiLLaMaN

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

what he was trying to say is that if developers didnt make any games that required big hardware, the hardware companies wouldnt make any money because everyones PC could already handle it.

And why would they do that? For laughs? It wouldnt effect piracy at all and it would hurt themselves in the long run as it would stagnate the industry.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?TOAO_Cyrus1

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

what he was trying to say is that if developers didnt make any games that required big hardware, the hardware companies wouldnt make any money because everyones PC could already handle it.

And why would they do that? For laughs? It wouldnt effect piracy at all and it would hurt themselves in the long run as it would stagnate the industry.

How it wouldnt effect it? Games with low graphics and hardware demands sell boatloads more than the opposite,,,

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?True_Gamer_

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

what he was trying to say is that if developers didnt make any games that required big hardware, the hardware companies wouldnt make any money because everyones PC could already handle it.

And why would they do that? For laughs? It wouldnt effect piracy at all and it would hurt themselves in the long run as it would stagnate the industry.

How it wouldnt effect it? Games with low graphics and hardware demands sell boatloads more than the opposite,,,

Yes games behind the technological curve sell more but they arent 8 bit arcade games, they are games that run well on the majority of machines. Even so the average machine is continually getting better, they are just a couple of years behind the high end. If we they where games that run on Apple II's the industry would have died long ago.

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]

[QUOTE="Bgrngod"]The software industry should just stop making games that push hardware upgrades. Who'd be laughing then?SF_KiLLaMaN

nobody.

people would still pirate games.

what he was trying to say is that if developers didnt make any games that required big hardware, the hardware companies wouldnt make any money because everyones PC could already handle it.

yeah, no duh.

PC gamers wouldn't like that though would they? So they wouldn't be laughing.

Hardware companies would sell less stuff, so they are crying.

and sw makers are still dealing with piracy, so they are bawling.

no one wins with his solution.

why punish hardware makers for no reason? it's not their fault.

better solution:

make HW sales important to SW developersand vice-versa. make them dependant on eachother.

Intel/Nvidia/AMD making games would be a start. MS already makes games for PC (they sell PC game accessories.

this would encourage an attempt at creating a piracy protection solution that uses both HW and software. and it could be pretty effective.

i think there will always be pirating. i think in the future it will be worse then it is right now. iam2green

So if this is true, then developers need to find an alternate source of income for their games that are beign released. They should sell them cheap, and advertise in them for income streams, and all is happy, except the end user, but they still get the same game experience.

And that's a bad thing? Piracy is a blessing for any country that starts to get into computerization. WIthout piracy the current legal market for PC retail games would at most be 10% of what it is nowadays. It's only in late stages, when the market matures that piracy becomes a problem, but it's just an opportunity to make pirates switch to legal copies, crying about piracy is hypocrisy, because without it there would be no market there to begin withAdrianWerner

Youre right and the software industry's only hope is to shield the western world from the east where piracy is dominant...I mean the USA gov can shut down warez and torrent sites based in the USA but it cannot touch Russian or Chinese pirates...so the only way is to shield the USA internet web from the russian access...or regualte it someway

I'm pretty sure the hardware corp hired the pirates in the first place to attack software corp... I mean when have you ever met someone who started a torrent. Never, that's when. Because they are started by professional economic hitmen on hardware corp's payroll.chutup

Either way, hardware companies are loving piracy, they know theyd rather get a quick cheap upgrade and then DL the game for free.

[QUOTE="chutup"]I'm pretty sure the hardware corp hired the pirates in the first place to attack software corp... I mean when have you ever met someone who started a torrent. Never, that's when. Because they are started by professional economic hitmen on hardware corp's payroll.FirstDiscovery

No, my company went bankrupt after the first game. Also I started that meme.

New topic, old quote.

Hardware companies should get into game making, create justifications for their latest hardware (e.g. Intel, Larrabee, Project Offset).

Even if the games get pirated to hell and back, what is the loss of a £25 game sale when it justified a £120 GPU? Throw some ad support in there to make up for some of the development losses.

The hardware industry will always make more money then the software industry because everyone will always need the hardware but they don't always need the software (legit or otherwise) that runs on that hardware.

So there claim that piracy is helping hardware industry is correct but at the sametime its shows there own arrogance at how things work in general within the computer industry, if we always need every piece of software on our computers (legit or otherwise) then the industry wouldn't be anywhere near what it is today because it would have been hampered by there side of development.

Again if the roles were reverse do you reckon any of these companies would be screaming about piracy? no a chance they would be quite happy if everyone bought there software and pirated the hardware to play there titles.

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]

[QUOTE="chutup"]I'm pretty sure the hardware corp hired the pirates in the first place to attack software corp... I mean when have you ever met someone who started a torrent. Never, that's when. Because they are started by professional economic hitmen on hardware corp's payroll.chutup

No, my company went bankrupt after the first game. Also I started that meme.

Oh well, i see youre bitter, thats the games industry, its extremely risky, i wish we had a PSone/PS2 this gen...

New topic, old quote.

Hardware companies should get into game making, create justifications for their latest hardware (e.g. Intel, Larrabee, Project Offset).

Even if the games get pirated to hell and back, what is the loss of a £25 game sale when it justified a £120 GPU? Throw some ad support in there to make up for some of the development losses.

AnnoyedDragon

Agreed 100%...

Pirates all around the globe are downloading games but at the same time paying full price for the hardware....but the second that hardware demanding software productions stops all those CPUs/GPUs/MoBos/RAMs will rot on shelves...

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]

[QUOTE="chutup"]I'm pretty sure the hardware corp hired the pirates in the first place to attack software corp... I mean when have you ever met someone who started a torrent. Never, that's when. Because they are started by professional economic hitmen on hardware corp's payroll.chutup

No, my company went bankrupt after the first game. Also I started that meme.

that meme has been floating around the Internet since 1995.

Trust me, if you think you invented something on the Internet, its already been invented, used, abhorred, then beat to death.

[QUOTE="chutup"][QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]

[QUOTE="chutup"]I'm pretty sure the hardware corp hired the pirates in the first place to attack software corp... I mean when have you ever met someone who started a torrent. Never, that's when. Because they are started by professional economic hitmen on hardware corp's payroll.Wartzay

No, my company went bankrupt after the first game. Also I started that meme.

that meme has been floating around the Internet since 1995.

Trust me, if you think you invented something on the Internet, its already been invented, used, abhorred, then beat to death.

In any way...the hardware industry is making too much money off piracy for it not to be suspected...

Not their fault people would rather upgrade than buy a game

After all, you cant DL a GPU for free can you?

FirstDiscovery

you could break into the shop, but that wouldn't go down very well.

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

True_Gamer_

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

skektek

And the hardware industry keeps booming off piracy...Because a pirates $2000 PC comes "cheaper" than a legitimate customer's $200 console...

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

True_Gamer_

And the hardware industry keeps booming off piracy...Because a pirates $2000 PC comes "cheaper" than a legitimate customer's $200 console...

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

skektek

And the hardware industry keeps booming off piracy...Because a pirates $2000 PC comes "cheaper" than a legitimate customer's $200 console...

WHat I mean was that lots of people buy hardware on money saved on "free" pc games...I mean over a span of 5 years a console with fully paid games can cost up to $1500....Now the pirates just get a $1000 PC plus $500 on mid term upgrade thus while software industry just gets the middle finger from them..the hardware industry recieves full payment for its products....

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

True_Gamer_

And the hardware industry keeps booming off piracy...Because a pirates $2000 PC comes "cheaper" than a legitimate customer's $200 console...

WHat I mean was that lots of people buy hardware on money saved on "free" pc games...I mean over a span of 5 years a console with fully paid games can cost up to $1500....Now the pirates just get a $1000 PC plus $500 on mid term upgrade thus while software industry just gets the middle finger from them..the hardware industry recieves full payment for its products....

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

Its evident that software piracy is getting the hardware industry fatter and fatter:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54322

"I think that there's been this dirty little secret among hardware manufacturers, which is that the perception of free content--even if you're supposed to pay for it on PCs--is some sort hidden benefit that you get when you buy a PC, like a right to download music for free or a right to download pirated movies and games."

Now we see whos feeling warmer off the fire thats burning the software industry...

skektek

And the hardware industry keeps booming off piracy...Because a pirates $2000 PC comes "cheaper" than a legitimate customer's $200 console...

WHat I mean was that lots of people buy hardware on money saved on "free" pc games...I mean over a span of 5 years a console with fully paid games can cost up to $1500....Now the pirates just get a $1000 PC plus $500 on mid term upgrade thus while software industry just gets the middle finger from them..the hardware industry recieves full payment for its products....

Youre forgetting the most important part:

The PC games industry isnt controlled by anyone....If DRM infested hardware comes out people will simply dump PC gaming as a platform and use the cheaper DRM infested hardware: consoles...

Also the game developer that makes such a move will be pushed out by another developer that makes a game that runs on all hardware...plus software makers such as Blizzard and Valve will keep their own ways of promoting MP oriented games and avoid piracy....Plus developers that dont push hardware will still make boatloads of cash...

An example if CMDirt which is on the warez network with the Starforce DRM RIPPED OUT...No matter what happens the hardware industry's golden days are coming to an end....

iD software simply needs to stop talking. They haven't been a serious industry leader since Quake 2, and it has become increasingly obivous (through their continous provactive, yet incorrect ) statements that they only open their mouths to get noticed.

Hardware manufacturers have a great deal to lose from piracy, if software giants like Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo go up in smoke, no one will buy the technology they have spent billions researching. GPU research and manufacturing research ar slated years in advance, there is a ton of money in the pipeline.

Things like trusted computing, hardware security, and hardware anti-piracy efforts happen because there is a great deal of money in the piracy solution. GPU manufacturers don't want the software industry to away, it is too valuable to them, and no, they don't view it that way.

iD is simply another case of sour grapes - a company whose design philosophies have become increasingly dated for the modern gaming world. They are blaming piracy for problems that are really caused by a lack of interest in their products.

-

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The reality is, the market that was once covered by iD got stolen by Epic. Unreal Tournmanet, UT 03, and UT 04 existed in an area where iD only had Quake 3. Doom 3, one of iD's most successful games, was vastly overshadowed by Gears of War in sales, and Unreal Engine 3 has dominated the landscape of console games. iD hasn't adapted to the times, they're still making the same old game on the same old platform.

iD software simply needs to stop talking. They haven't been a serious industry leader since Quake 2, and it has become increasingly obivous (through their continous provactive, yet incorrect ) statements that they only open their mouths to get noticed.

Hardware manufacturers have a great deal to lose from piracy, if software giants like Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo go up in smoke, no one will buy the technology they have spent billions researching. GPU research and manufacturing research ar slated years in advance, there is a ton of money in the pipeline.

Things like trusted computing, hardware security, and hardware anti-piracy efforts happen because there is a great deal of money in the piracy solution. GPU manufacturers don't want the software industry to away, it is too valuable to them, and no, they don't view it that way.

iD is simply another case of sour grapes - a company whose design philosophies have become increasingly dated for the modern gaming world. They are blaming piracy for problems that are really caused by a lack of interest in their products.

-

-

The reality is, the market that was once covered by iD got stolen by Epic. Unreal Tournmanet, UT 03, and UT 04 existed in an area where iD only had Quake 3. Doom 3, one of iD's most successful games, was vastly overshadowed by Gears of War in sales, and Unreal Engine 3 has dominated the landscape of console games. iD hasn't adapted to the times, they're still making the same old game on the same old platform.

subrosian

If a $1500 PC comes cheaper (to the the pirate) than a $400 console hows the hardware industry notgetting a huge cash influx? Do you really believe that there isnt a huge cash flow from the software to the hardware industry facilitated by piracy?

If a $1500 PC comes cheaper (to the the pirate) than a $400 console hows the hardware industry notgetting a huge cash influx? Do you really believe that there isnt a huge cash flow from the software to the hardware industry facilitated by piracy?

True_Gamer_

I think hes saying that the benefit of creating a successful way to stop piracy would be more rewarding in the long run to the hardware companies. What if you start to see software giants fall? What would be the point of piraters upgrading their hardware if there isn't any software to buy or pirate?

Here's a what-if.

1. They make more games with more modest hardware requirements, thus reducing the take for hardware companies.

- AND -

2. Adopt sales models that deter piracy better, such as Digital Distribution.

iD software simply needs to stop talking. They haven't been a serious industry leader since Quake 2, and it has become increasingly obivous (through their continous provactive, yet incorrect ) statements that they only open their mouths to get noticed. subrosian

[QUOTE="subrosian"]iD software simply needs to stop talking. They haven't been a serious industry leader since Quake 2, and it has become increasingly obivous (through their continous provactive, yet incorrect ) statements that they only open their mouths to get noticed. Makari

I can only name 2 games that used their proprietary engine, Quake and Doom.

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="subrosian"]iD software simply needs to stop talking. They haven't been a serious industry leader since Quake 2, and it has become increasingly obivous (through their continous provactive, yet incorrect ) statements that they only open their mouths to get noticed. Pro_wrestler

I can only name 2 games that used their proprietary engine, Quake and Doom.

Here's a what-if.

1. They make more games with more modest hardware requirements, thus reducing the take for hardware companies.

- AND -

2. Adopt sales models that deter piracy better, such as Digital Distribution.

HuusAsking

Either way will lead the CURRENT form of hardware industry nnear to collapse...

If a $1500 PC comes cheaper (to the the pirate) than a $400 console hows the hardware industry notgetting a huge cash influx? Do you really believe that there isnt a huge cash flow from the software to the hardware industry facilitated by piracy?

True_Gamer_

It's not that simple. That $1500 PC is composed of parts from a dozen different companies, many of whom also create the parts in consoles. There's not some monolithic company that churns out the "pirate's choice" PC, cashing in on that ticket (at least, not in the US).

In fact, the $1500 PC is a bit of a misgnomer here, as piracy is most rampant outside of the US, and is just as problematic on hardware that is controlled entirely by *software manufacturers*. Do you think Nintendo wants to sell DS lites by encouraging people to pirate DS software (which they publish and make huge licensing fees off of )? Of course not. Sony doesn't want people pirating PS3 games, or PSP software either.

-

Hardware manufacturers who are heavily tied to specific platforms have, in fact, have a great deal to lose from piracy. If piracy pushes software manufacturers out of the PC market, then the deman for the lucrative enthusiast graphic card shrinks. If piracy hurts sales of a game on one mobile platform, companies will avoid it in favor of other platforms.

In fact, because a console or portable manufacturer is apt to choose the most secure hardware that is affordable when developing a new product, hardware companies have quite a bit to gain by fighting off piracy. They ensure that their platforms remain healthy in the long run, and they ensure that they are picked to create new consoles.

So yes, companies like Intel, nVidia, ATI, and AMD, who have billions invested in the future of PC hardware, have quite a bit to lose if piracy destroys their platform. They are certainly not "giddy with anticipation" at the thought of getting ill-gotten gains. However even these "ill gains" are questionable. There is no guarantee that a pirate, unable to steal software, will buy it. If they're unable to pirate on PC, there's no guarantee they won't find another platform with a security loophole.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

If a $1500 PC comes cheaper (to the the pirate) than a $400 console hows the hardware industry notgetting a huge cash influx? Do you really believe that there isnt a huge cash flow from the software to the hardware industry facilitated by piracy?

subrosian

It's not that simple. That $1500 PC is composed of parts from a dozen different companies, many of whom also create the parts in consoles. There's not some monolithic company that churns out the "pirate's choice" PC, cashing in on that ticket (at least, not in the US).

In fact, the $1500 PC is a bit of a misgnomer here, as piracy is most rampant outside of the US, and is just as problematic on hardware that is controlled entirely by *software manufacturers*. Do you think Nintendo wants to sell DS lites by encouraging people to pirate DS software (which they publish and make huge licensing fees off of )? Of course not. Sony doesn't want people pirating PS3 games, or PSP software either.

-

Hardware manufacturers who are heavily tied to specific platforms have, in fact, have a great deal to lose from piracy. If piracy pushes software manufacturers out of the PC market, then the deman for the lucrative enthusiast graphic card shrinks. If piracy hurts sales of a game on one mobile platform, companies will avoid it in favor of other platforms.

In fact, because a console or portable manufacturer is apt to choose the most secure hardware that is affordable when developing a new product, hardware companies have quite a bit to gain by fighting off piracy. They ensure that their platforms remain healthy in the long run, and they ensure that they are picked to create new consoles.

So yes, companies like Intel, nVidia, ATI, and AMD, who have billions invested in the future of PC hardware, have quite a bit to lose if piracy destroys their platform. They are certainly not "giddy with anticipation" at the thought of getting ill-gotten gains. However even these "ill gains" are questionable. There is no guarantee that a pirate, unable to steal software, will buy it. If they're unable to pirate on PC, there's no guarantee they won't find another platform with a security loophole.

You shouldnt confuse console and handheld manufacturers to PC parts manufacturers...

Console/Handheld manufacturers are getting a big chuck of cash out of royalities fees and SDKs.... PC hardware manufacturers get SQUAT....

Also dont forget the fact that while software makers are selling ONLY to legitimate customers, hardware makers are selling to legitimate customers PLUS PIRATES...

If Crysis was downloaded 5,000,000 times (thats a fraction of what Crytek sais) and bought 2,000,000 times there are 3,000,000 PCs capable of running Crysis at decent level look at Nvidia's sales....Hardware will sell no matter how many torrent sites are out there...also piracy is pushing that hardware because it makes that relatively expensive hardware cheap as hell....

A $400 console with legitimate games costs more than a $1500 PC full of torrented game....thats the bottom line...