If Kinect fails, Microsoft's investors will pressure them to leave the industry.

it makes me laugh to see people want ms out.

we would be playing haze 2 and lair 3 this year if not for competition.

Riverwolf007

Nice speculation

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

it makes me laugh to see people want ms out.

we would be playing haze 2 and lair 3 this year if not for competition.

Blaze-Agent

Nice speculation

tl;dr but, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't 360's making an excellent profit? I thought it was the saving grace of the Entertainment & Devices section.angelkimne

Yes, but according to some people it doesn't matter if one product is successful and the other is not, investors will cut both anyway.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

Yes but at the end of the day. They are in it to make money. Nothing more nothing less

Blaze-Agent

shareholders make money when a company's value increases. A share is simply part of a company. A company can post losses and still increase the value of its stock. Shareholders are making money off the 360, and at the end of the day thats all that matters, nothing more nothing less.

Yes but losing money elsewhere. Since its tied to their entertainment division

The only thing that might happen is they are pressured to cut and run on less desirable aspects of their entertainment division... or maybe they will restructure it so that the 360 isnt considered part of their entertainment division. This is no way is going to affect the 360.

[QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]Doesn't Kinect have a very large number of pre orders?Locutus_Picard

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

it makes me laugh to see people want ms out.

we would be playing haze 2 and lair 3 this year if not for competition.

Blaze-Agent

Nice speculation

Here.

The gaming division is dragging the entire company into the red. Selling these things cost Sony two times the amount of money that they made last year.

Now I'm gonna start spouting how Sony is gonna drop out next gen. Hurray!

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

Blaze-Agent

Yea i kinda dont like apple either. Too arrogant and would prolly ruin the industry with over priced junk

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

Half-Way

[QUOTE="Ravenlore_basic"]

Sony will not have PS4 out for many years to come. AND each year after Slim came out Sony has made a profit on PS3.

Sony is a Manufacture and entertainment company, and PS3 is important to it. Microsoft is firt and formost a Software maker. Xbox 360 is not at their center nor anyplace near their center, and thus can be jettisoned at any time.

lhughey

..umm.... NO... but we will see. I do not think Sony will launch in a year or two. IT just cost too much. AND Sony's assumption that they will sell like they did with PS2is GONE!! Not to mention AGAIN that PS2 sold well after the PS3 came out. PS2 lasted from 2000 till 2008 with great sales even though Developers left for the new consoles. Many developers admited that they left the console too soon.

SO I see PS4 no earlier than 2013. It will have full support for longer. Even if the third Xbox comes out sooner say 2011 or 2012

[QUOTE="WiiMan21"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Again with this. I ask again - why would they not just can the products that are NOT profitable and leave the ones that are, instead of cutting the entire division?

waltefmoney

because when you send out one bad product, do you expect the consumers to buy the other products?

What do you mean? Consumers are already buying the 360 enough and if Microsoft happens to send out the Zune for example people would still buy the 360 enough

Well I had a 360 until it RROD, I have lost my trust in MS.

I am not going to buy anything MS related unless its the Windows OS.

Its a matter of releasing the bad product in the first place.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="WiiMan21"]

because when you send out one bad product, do you expect the consumers to buy the other products?

WiiMan21

What do you mean? Consumers are already buying the 360 enough and if Microsoft happens to send out the Zune for example people would still buy the 360 enough

Well I had a 360 until it RROD, I have lost my trust in MS.

I am not going to buy anything MS related unless its the Windows OS.

Its a matter of releasing the bad product in the first place.

You mean like what Sony did last gen with the PS2? But did that stop it from being best selling console to date? Nope.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

monson21502

[QUOTE="WiiMan21"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

What do you mean? Consumers are already buying the 360 enough and if Microsoft happens to send out the Zune for example people would still buy the 360 enough

waltefmoney

Well I had a 360 until it RROD, I have lost my trust in MS.

I am not going to buy anything MS related unless its the Windows OS.

Its a matter of releasing the bad product in the first place.

You mean like what Sony did last gen with the PS2? But did that stop it from being best selling console to date? Nope.

What was wrong with the PS2 last gen?

And this gen, the 360 is the least selling console.

[QUOTE="monson21502"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

BodyElite

Move is going to do great, and Kinect could do great if they executed it properly.

But Nintendo is turning their Online around with the 3DS.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="WiiMan21"]

Well I had a 360 until it RROD, I have lost my trust in MS.

I am not going to buy anything MS related unless its the Windows OS.

Its a matter of releasing the bad product in the first place.

WiiMan21

You mean like what Sony did last gen with the PS2? But did that stop it from being best selling console to date? Nope.

What was wrong with the PS2 last gen?

And this gen, the 360 is the least selling console.

PS3 is the least selling console this gen. No matter how you look at it. Also, PS2 had serious hardware problems - the dvd drives burned out like crazy. The slim was overheating really bad. It was the least reliable console last gen. But it was still the best selling one.

Obviously their operating margin for windows is going to be much larger. They have an enormous share and the cost to production difference is ridiculous.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

it makes me laugh to see people want ms out.

we would be playing haze 2 and lair 3 this year if not for competition.

GulliversTravel

Nice speculation

name one? Please go ahead.

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]tl;dr but, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't 360's making an excellent profit? I thought it was the saving grace of the Entertainment & Devices section.waltefmoney

Yes, but according to some people it doesn't matter if one product is successful and the other is not, investors will cut both anyway.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]tl;dr but, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't 360's making an excellent profit? I thought it was the saving grace of the Entertainment & Devices section.angelkimne

Yes, but according to some people it doesn't matter if one product is successful and the other is not, investors will cut both anyway.

obviously that isnt the case. I think hes just pointing out that some people are delusional.

[QUOTE="monson21502"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

BodyElite

i disagree, so called "hardcore" gamers and casual gamers are both the reason why videogaming is dieing

the HD consoles support those "matrue" teenagers with their ADHD, while nintendo supports the casuals.

tl;dr but, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't 360's making an excellent profit? I thought it was the saving grace of the Entertainment & Devices section.angelkimne

Yes, but according to some people it doesn't matter if one product is successful and the other is not, investors will cut both anyway.

[QUOTE="Casboof"]

I don't think you guys understand that MS has made a killing this gen compared to last. Why would they leave the industry?

Blaze-Agent

what killing? they lost over 4 billion dollars on the original xbox. Lost another 1 billion in repairs for the xbox 360. And another billions for the first 2 years when they sold the console at a loss. So nope. The whole Xbox entertainment division is still in the red. Same with sony. OnlyNintendo wii as made buckloads of money this gen.

I fear the route they are taking with Kinect. The wholeKin fiasco also makes me doubt the leadership of the company. Has many as said before. The founders of the Xbox are gone.And the new guys seem to talk more thando more.

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="Casboof"]

I don't think you guys understand that MS has made a killing this gen compared to last. Why would they leave the industry?

myke2010

what killing? they lost over 4 billion dollars on the original xbox. Lost another 1 billion in repairs for the xbox 360. And another billions for the first 2 years when they sold the console at a loss. So nope. The whole Xbox entertainment division is still in the red. Same with sony. OnlyNintendo wii as made buckloads of money this gen.

I fear the route they are taking with Kinect. The wholeKin fiasco also makes me doubt the leadership of the company. Has many as said before. The founders of the Xbox are gone.And the new guys seem to talk more thando more.

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about. Micosoft started making money on the xbox 360 in 2008. They netted 426 million dollars profitthat year on the xbox 360.

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

[QUOTE="myke2010"]

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

what killing? they lost over 4 billion dollars on the original xbox. Lost another 1 billion in repairs for the xbox 360. And another billions for the first 2 years when they sold the console at a loss. So nope. The whole Xbox entertainment division is still in the red. Same with sony. OnlyNintendo wii as made buckloads of money this gen.

I fear the route they are taking with Kinect. The wholeKin fiasco also makes me doubt the leadership of the company. Has many as said before. The founders of the Xbox are gone.And the new guys seem to talk more thando more.

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

[QUOTE="myke2010"]

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

what killing? they lost over 4 billion dollars on the original xbox. Lost another 1 billion in repairs for the xbox 360. And another billions for the first 2 years when they sold the console at a loss. So nope. The whole Xbox entertainment division is still in the red. Same with sony. OnlyNintendo wii as made buckloads of money this gen.

I fear the route they are taking with Kinect. The wholeKin fiasco also makes me doubt the leadership of the company. Has many as said before. The founders of the Xbox are gone.And the new guys seem to talk more thando more.

Blaze-Agent

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

And something tells me that you didn't bother to research this statement before coming on this board and posting this nonsense. MS have stated in past reports to their stockholders that they are indeed in the black. It is illegal to fabricate data on these reports so they can be trusted. Further, they have also stated that the money lost to them with the origninal Xbox is irrelevant as they knew that it was an investment which wouldn't give them an immediate return. MS strategy was never to jump in and make a quick buck, rather it was a long term strategy to gain a large marketshare of the console market. They have succeeded in this, to pull out now would make no sense whatsoever.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="myke2010"]

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

monson21502

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

2 billion on the 360 in the last quarter? or the company as a whole.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="myke2010"]

MS already made back all the money they lost from the Xbox and recouped the losses due to RROD repairs. MS posted this a couple of years ago and have been in the black for quite some time. This is widely known information. They have been operating at a profit this gen. A smart company doesn't abandon the market when they are profiting and MS is by no means a dumb company.

myke2010

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

And something tells me that you didn't bother to research this statement before coming on this board and posting this nonsense. MS have stated in past reports to their stockholders that they are indeed in the black. It is illegal to fabricate data on these reports so they can be trusted. Further, they have also stated that the money lost to them with the origninal Xbox is irrelevant as they knew that it was an investment which wouldn't give them an immediate return. MS strategy was never to jump in and make a quick buck, rather it was a long term strategy to gain a large marketshare of the console market. They have succeeded in this, to pull out now would make no sense whatsoever.

But what about the 4 billion? Its does not make sense at all. And its only natural for them to say something like that because if they had made even 5 million dollars on the oG xbox, they would not have made that statement about them knowing the xbox would lose them money. Sounds more like an afterthought.

[QUOTE="monson21502"][QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

2 billion on the 360 in the last quarter? or the company as a whole.

[QUOTE="myke2010"]

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

wait so the xbox 360 is made them close to 6 billion dollars? Something that the wii has yet to manage? Something tells me you dont know what you are talking about.

Blaze-Agent

And something tells me that you didn't bother to research this statement before coming on this board and posting this nonsense. MS have stated in past reports to their stockholders that they are indeed in the black. It is illegal to fabricate data on these reports so they can be trusted. Further, they have also stated that the money lost to them with the origninal Xbox is irrelevant as they knew that it was an investment which wouldn't give them an immediate return. MS strategy was never to jump in and make a quick buck, rather it was a long term strategy to gain a large marketshare of the console market. They have succeeded in this, to pull out now would make no sense whatsoever.

But what about the 4 billion? Its does not make sense at all. And its only natural for them to say something like that because if they had made even 5 million dollars on the oG xbox, they would not have made that statement about them knowing the xbox would lose them money. Sounds more like an afterthought.

What about the 4 billion? Have you not seen how much money MS charges for it's accessories and XBL? Have you not taken a look at their annual reports where they list how much division makes them? A quick search of the forums should find them as they tend to be popular topics on these boards when they're released.

And do you really think that a corporation as large and successful as MS doesn't understand the concept of operating a division at a short term loss to net a long term profit? It wasn't an afterthouth, it's a standard practice for companies this large.

Uh, guys, you can't just dismiss an article from Business Week just because you don't like the things it says. They are professionals, they know full well if Microsoft's entertainment division is in the red or not, and you can't disprove them "just 'cause". This isn't some no-name site spouting rumors that you can dismiss as fanboyism. I think that Business Week knows a lot more about financial stuff than the random "XboxRulez67" poster. So please, enough with the "they're wrong, 360 is the golden goose" comments.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="Half-Way"]

sooo next gen will be apple instead of MS?

Blaze-Agent

Yea i kinda dont like apple either. Too arrogant and would prolly ruin the industry with over priced junk

But i would love a console that matches my Ipod! I would pay any price!

lol, wut?

[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]

[QUOTE="Nocturnal_Speed"]

Micro$oft out of the gaming business?? Doubt it...they can't keep there hands out of the cookie jars.

markinthedark

It's not hard to keep your hands out of the cookie jar when it's empty. That's the point, if they're not successful there are no cookies to grab.

luckily they are actually massively successful as i have pointed out before.

In a lot of ways they are, but your gas station analogy doesn't really work. What are supposed to be the gas stations here, 360s sold? Because a 360 sold does not equal equity for MS, it equals a sale. Opening another gas station means the value of the land, building, equipment, and inventory are part of your assets, which can be sold for cash. Increasing the 360s userbase equals more potential for software sales and subscription fees, but proper management is needed to capitalize on that. In the case of the gas stations, it's a straight cash value scenario, and it's easily measurable.

lol some of the worst speculation in a thread I've ever seen. The 360 is an established name, it makes money simple as that, No matter what happens with kinect Microsoft investors aren't going to preasure them out of the industry thats just silly.

lol some of the worst speculation in a thread I've ever seen. The 360 is an established name, it makes money simple as that, No matter what happens with kinect Microsoft investors aren't going to preasure them out of the industry thats just silly.

WilliamRLBaker

They are signing things with big names like ESPN as well they are far from dead.

[QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"]I expect a few million. Which is quite optimistic for an add-on, but marketing junk can go a loooong way.Locutus_Picard

Except Kinect is not an add-on. The HD-DVD player was an add on, Kinect is being treated like an entirely new console release and will receive treatment as such.

You are also basing your assumptions on nothing, just FYI. :)

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"][QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]

Except Kinect is not an add-on. The HD-DVD player was an add on, Kinect is being treated like an entirely new console release and will receive treatment as such.

You are also basing your assumptions on nothing, just FYI. :)

dommeus

INORITE ALL OF AMERICA LOVES THE XBOX 360 ROFLROFLROFL

what i cant be americas spokesperson now?

I remember when I came up with this very same thread months of months ago and got flamed badly for it, my have the times changed.

Santesyu

[QUOTE="Santesyu"]

I remember when I came up with this very same thread months of months ago and got flamed badly for it, my have the times changed.

coltsfan4ever

Why? 360 is already a success.

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"][QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]Doesn't Kinect have a very large number of pre orders?R3FURBISHED

-.-

Are the pre-orders on Kinect actually at "a few million" or are you saying that you expect only a couple of million of people to buy Kinect?

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="Nintendonly"]

"Smashing success" has to equate to profits, not sales numbers. And apparently, Microsoft investors aren't seeing the former.

Blaze-Agent

Microsoft investors saw more profits than Sony investors this gen. Does that mean Sony is leaving too?

YEs but like i stated earlier they have not made enough money to get the division out of thered. Secondly we dont know how much they are pouring into Kinect. Sony is no longer losing money.. However they have lost over 4 billion dollars. THats about all; the profit they made with their playstation brand.(yes includes Ps1 and ps2 and even the psp) They are hoping that bluray sales will make the investment worthwhile in the long run.

You have NO idea what your talking about. As MS has stated in financial reports the Xbox has been in the black for a few years now.

Just off of Xbox Live MS is banking 1.2 Billion dollars a year. This does not include sales of consoles, controllers, Hard drives, wireless mics, Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza, all which have sold multiple millions of copies hell even Lost Odyssey sold a million copies. Remember MS also makes money off of 3rd party games. Now add in the profits from the rest of the Xbox line and you will see that MS has been making a ton of money on the Xbox.

here is the Link: http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/201027/5844/Gold-accounts-alive-and-well-as-Xbox-Live-rakes-in-1-2-billion

[QUOTE="mayceV"]it won't fail. It's being to widely acclaimed. yeah you can bring up a few links of instances where some press hate on kinect but I can bring 5 positive links for each negative one you post. I hate that MS even though of kinect, I gotta live with it though. They're doing more than kinect atleast. PC and 360 both have Decentlineups frm them and MS is opening up more studios to meet the demand of games. I just hate it because Rare is being put on it. I honestly blame gamers for what happened to Rare. PDZ, VP, and BK N&B were all great. maybe not as great as N64 hits but they were some of the best games of thier years. Atleast BK4 and PD2 are both rumoured for 2011. However I fear Kinect might be required :( .Blaze-Agent

Wide Acclamation does not lead to long term sucess., Pricing is key and they got it all wrong. With the device and the games.

i think you're the one thast's got it all wrong friend lol. we're going to see inthe coming months. but u seem like u have issues with MS and Kinect thats making you say and think in some stupid ways lol.