If Mass Effect gets a 9-10/10 then Final Fantasy 13 better get 10-11/10 imo

I doubt anyone will waste their time reading that.DirrtyNinja

I sure as hell didnt....

[QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]

Funny how you still haven't even named a WRPG that's been better.

Probably the only WRPG that should be put in the same sentence with some of the great JRPGs is KOTOR.

Zaxro

Baulders gate II, Oblivion, Fallout, Icewind Dale, Planetscape torment to name a few.

Wheras since 1997 (earliest game on the WRPG list I said) the only even comparable JRPGS were ff7, ffx and CC.

Final Fantasy VIII and IX

Xenosaga 1 and 3

Xenogears

Kingdom Hearts

along with many others are better than any of those games you listed.

kthxbi

[QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]

Funny how you still haven't even named a WRPG that's been better.

Probably the only WRPG that should be put in the same sentence with some of the great JRPGs is KOTOR.

Out_Kast3000

Baulders gate II, Oblivion, Fallout, Icewind Dale, Planetscape torment to name a few.

Wheras since 1997 (earliest game on the WRPG list I said) the only even comparable JRPGS were ff7, ffx and CC.

Final Fantasy VIII and IX

Xenosaga 1 and 3

Xenogears

Kingdom Hearts

along with many others are better than any of those games you listed.

kthxbi

FF8 was good, not great, 9 was decent, Same with Xenosaga. Kingdom hearts is one of my all-time personal favorite series, doesn't mean it's as good as others. Xenogears was great as well.

EDIT: Also with the WRPGs I avoided listing games in the same series, and of course If I said diablo you would pull story out on me

[QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]

Funny how you still haven't even named a WRPG that's been better.

Probably the only WRPG that should be put in the same sentence with some of the great JRPGs is KOTOR.

Out_Kast3000

Baulders gate II, Oblivion, Fallout, Icewind Dale, Planetscape torment to name a few.

Wheras since 1997 (earliest game on the WRPG list I said) the only even comparable JRPGS were ff7, ffx and CC.

Final Fantasy VIII and IX

Xenosaga 1 and 3

Xenogears

Kingdom Hearts

along with many others are better than any of those games you listed.

kthxbi

Witcher

Oblivion

World of Warcraft

Diablo

Guild Wars

Neverwinter Nights

Baldur's Gate

KOTOR

Might & Magid VI

Fallout II

and soon to be the best RPG ever made

MASS EFFECT

mass effect will never even come close to touching any of the final fantasies

well, maybe X-2, and XI.

Wait, what? I don't think so; I can honestly tell you, I'm one of the biggest Final Fantasy fans out there, but I'm getting quite sick of the Final Fantasy crutch Square Enix has laid out to its fans, not to mention the quality of games has gone downhill ever since X-2. Final Fantasy XIII looks amazing, but saying it's better than Mass Effect without having played either of the games, is pure and utter foolishness. Square Enix has, IMO, killed much ofFinal Fantasy's credibility with X-2 and XI; they alienated much of their fanbase with their Online-only crap for XI, and X-2 was a mediocre JRPG, at best. Final Fantasy XII was great, but not the epic that SE promised. I'm not going to judge FFXIII right now, because it's not plausible to do so. I won't even compare it to Mass Effect, which is another one of my anticipated games.

Again, you can say what you will about the so called "superiority" of the JRPG,because it's your opinion, but IMO, JRPGs are losing their touch. I still love 'em, but damn, they just NEVER change.

diablo 2 ismore fun for me thenbaldurs gate an kotor imo an its just a simple hack n slash its the only western rpg i like besides maybe fable, i really did not like bg or kotor series as much i like ff4/ff6/ff7/fftactics and ffx might not be my fav game but to a lot of ppl thats there fav rpg everan was a big hit on ps2 prolly more so then baldurs gate series combinedProtossRushX

lol wut? Did you play jedi academy or something and mix them up?

i think most if not all of what we've seen of ff13 has been either cgi or target rendersomarguy01

This is such an asinine thread. Not only is TC's argument completely devoid of any kind of intelligence or logic because he only focuses on the graphics and facial animations to no end which means basically nothing seeing as both WRPGs and JRPGs have never traditionally focused on graphical prowess as their selling points but rather D&D based combat with stories focused on choice and freedom on the part of the former and then linear story driven games with party based strategic combat for the latter, but mostly because we have seen just one trailer for FFXIII and have been given almost no info on it whatsoever, so to compare it to a game that has dozens of trailers covering almost ever aspect of the game to interviews and write ups on the eve of its release is completely laughable.

This constant battle between which genre is better is so tired and played out. I have never seen a single person give an intelligent well thought out reason as to why a JRPG is better or worse than a WRPG, but only what we are seeing here with people throwing out lists of games and then refuting it with either another list of games from the opposite side or just a response saying the games in said list suck or are sub par. I love both kinds of RPGs. I was a rabid FF fan through FFIX, but have to say since then I have continued to enjoy Biowares games immensely while the FF series has turned me off greatly.

Have we actually seen any gameplay yet? I know we've seen those small trailers, but do you actually think the game will look like that?

the in game footage and the action shots in ff13 trailer look like cgi quality with no rigged faces and sloppy lip syncing

FFXIII won't have those in the CGI scenes where people are actually talking, true. They'll probably have them every other time the characters talk, though.

anyone can tell that that hundreds of more effort must be going into ff13 if they are able to make the facial movements look hundreds of times more realistic then mass effects

For that matter, have we actually seen any in-game facial effects?

its something about japanese designers and graphic's that make there rpg's look real and flawless where as things like unreal/gears of war look fake an rigged an sloppy but with very complexgrfx mind you but it doesn't LOOK good like ff13 does

Honestly, WRPGs have never been about having great graphics.The developers spend their time making content, not making things look pretty.

i dont even think metal gear solid 4 looks as good as ff13 either an its in a much earlier stage then that game so im not just harpin on the 360 games

They're in different genres - FFXIII is turn-based (right?), so they don't need to spend a large amount of processing power on the AI, thus the graphics can be better.

ff is a trend setter in story department where as bioware has proved nothin in its previous games storywise

Wrong. Bioware may use generic stories, but they're 'great' storytellers (see KOTOR), so it doesn't matter.

this guy looks like the next emoized super sephiroth compared to a baldin headed generic space dude who looks like a backup soldier in gears of war

I'd prefer to play as a generic soldier instead of a gender-neutral 'emo' - wouldn't you?

hes not going to be winnin any character of the year awards like lightning the female lead in ff13 or that dude in ff13 versus an thats a fact

Reviews have been saying that Mass Effect has one of the best stories ever seen in a videogame. Assuming that the protagonist is actually an important character (and not just the player's avatar), then he has a very good chance of winning the character of the year award.

gameplay bioware gameplay is usually pretty borin imo an i get seriously addicted to the combat in ff7/ffx and stuff i just love summoning my uber creatures like ifrit an bahamut and doing my massive limit breaks

They both basically use turn-based systems, so how can Bioware's be more boring? You can usually summon 'uber creatures', etc.

bioware no ur gameplay isn't that fun sorry man it just isnt anmass effect looks like it contiunues that while ff13 looks like it goes deeper an next gen an more fun

No it doesn't. You've seen a short trailer (which probably doesn't even show gameplay), and you know next to nothing about the game.

Also, Mass Effect's gameplay is vastly different from any of their previous games, which goes to show thatyou've never actually played a Bioware game!

the trailer in ff13 versus thats just next gen music

'Next gen music'? :lol:

[QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="Out_Kast3000"]

Funny how you still haven't even named a WRPG that's been better.

Probably the only WRPG that should be put in the same sentence with some of the great JRPGs is KOTOR.

Out_Kast3000

Baulders gate II, Oblivion, Fallout, Icewind Dale, Planetscape torment to name a few.

Wheras since 1997 (earliest game on the WRPG list I said) the only even comparable JRPGS were ff7, ffx and CC.

Final Fantasy VIII and IX

Xenosaga 1 and 3

Xenogears

Kingdom Hearts

along with many others are better than any of those games you listed.

kthxbi

[QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
Zaxro

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

[QUOTE="CrimsonBlade360"] You must have not played many WRPGS, oblivion destroys most jrpgs.Out_Kast3000

LOL, no.

Oblivion had horrible combat, and horrible story. It was still a good game becuase it was fun at times, but very overrated.

I think you're getting opinion confused for fact. Unless your plan is to troll, or to look as ignorant and intolerant as possible you should probably agree to disagree.

sorry but theres waaaaaay more depth and things to do in FF games then there are in recent bioware games including KOTOR. Regardless FF is the most popular rpg in the world and will trounce mass effect salewise anyways. ive never played mass effect(for obvious reasons) and neither have you.but i have played alot of final fantasy, and FF is the king, no doubt. Final Fantasy is a proven FRANCHISE, what is mass effect? A franchise that was just bought by EA. Which most likely means ps3 owners will play it or a its sequel in the future.

[QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
JAMES_L_BROOKS

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

KOTOR II was made by Obsidian.

To me FF>>>KOTOR>>>>>>RPGS>>>>>>>Oblivion>>>>>>>WRPG

But Mass efect doesn't fall in any of that categories because IT'S A SHOOTER.

Saying Mass efect is a RPG because the character levels up and talks to people is lik saying that RandC is a RPG because the weapons level up and you can buy better armor.

[QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
JAMES_L_BROOKS

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

Baulders gate 2 came out later than any game you listed except ffX and XII, and kotor except XII. Second scores are not directly comparable even if it is same day. Lower scoring games have beaten out higher ones for gamespot goty multiple times

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

JAMES_L_BROOKS

Scores are rated according to their own platforms, they aren't supposed to be compared across platforms. That comparison is meaningless.

Besides, Planescape Torment and Fallout 2 are better than both BG2 and KOTOR, yet they scored lower.

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
JAMES_L_BROOKS

lol no... just no....

when was the last time you saw a jrpg get a game of the year award??

Saying Mass efect is a RPG because the character levels up and talks to people is lik saying that RandC is a RPG because the weapons level up and you can buy better armor.

DarkCloud79

To me FF>>>KOTOR>>>>>>RPGS>>>>>>>Oblivion>>>>>>>WRPGDarkCloud79

Wall of text ftl.

I read a bit, skipped a bit, read some more. Sounds like a whole lotting of fanboycrying to me.

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

HOW ABOUT THIS DOES IT LOOK LIKE CGI QUALITY (?)

OK since neither of thosewere cgi let me show you of a real cgi shot looks like in 13 an why you can tell one is almost like cgi while the other is CGI

here

now you know what im talkin about the first 2 shots are using the ps3 exclusive white engine which can only be rendered on the cell processor in the ps3

the last shot is awesome well done cgi for ff13

thread over this is over the non-cgi argument is dead imo

TC your points in your opening statement are totally biased(you obviously prefer squeenix's visual aestethics) and aren't really worthy of being put into a proper argument. A lot of gamers especially on these boards prefer the whole western sci-fi thing , so you're speaking to an indifferent crowd, unless you can show something more concrete

Nevertheless i think that a lot of ps3 gamers aren't going to care for any other rpg(hellgame even)when 13 and versus comes out. There's plenty of concrete info on the game that the devs have divulged. looking at the devs track record and the very very ambitious things they're trying with the game i.e. seamless large scaleenvironments, advent children-esque battles, a lot more reality when it comes to characterization, classic summons with new twists = shiva is a pair of sisters who transform into motorbikes.

FFXIII: http://www.ff-xiii.net/index.php?page=ffxiii_battle

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xct7VrBOJuc

FFXIII versus:http://www.ff-xiii.net/images/scans/158edge5.jpg

it'll make a lot more sense do these comparison when squeenix show off the fruits of their labour.

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

HOW ABOUT THIS DOES IT LOOK LIKE CGI QUALITY (?)

OK since neither of thosewere cgi let me show you of a real cgi shot looks like in 13 an why you can tell one is almost like cgi while the other is CGI

here

now you know what im talkin about the first 2 shots are using the ps3 exclusive white engine which can only be rendered on the cell processor in the ps3

the last shot is awesome well done cgi for ff13

thread over this is over the non-cgi argument is dead imo

ProtossRushX

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the first shot (second doesn't matter in the least) was not on actual Ps3 harware.

[QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"][QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
deviates1080

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

KOTOR II was made by Obsidian.

kotor 2 was better IMO

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]TRANSLATION: I'm a cow and can't accept WRPGs being on par (if not better) than JRPGs.Out_Kast3000

It has nothing to do with that.

Western RPGs just generally suck, especially when it comes to story and music, two things which are bigger in RPGs than any other genre.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you started gaming with the PS2, and that the first game you played was FFX. At least, I HOPE that is the case, because if not...well, let's not even go there.

To me FF>>>KOTOR>>>>>>RPGS>>>>>>>Oblivion>>>>>>>WRPG

But Mass efect doesn't fall in any of that categories because IT'S A SHOOTER.

Saying Mass efect is a RPG because the character levels up and talks to people is lik saying that RandC is a RPG because the weapons level up and you can buy better armor.

DarkCloud79

yeah, i argued that point for a while, i still think so, but i conceded to accept it being called a tps/rpg

[QUOTE="DarkCloud79"]

To me FF>>>KOTOR>>>>>>RPGS>>>>>>>Oblivion>>>>>>>WRPG

But Mass efect doesn't fall in any of that categories because IT'S A SHOOTER.

Saying Mass efect is a RPG because the character levels up and talks to people is lik saying that RandC is a RPG because the weapons level up and you can buy better armor.

mistervengeance

yeah, i argued that point for a while, i still think so, but i conceded to accept it being called a tps/rpg

diablo 2 ismore fun for me thenbaldurs gate an kotor imo an its just a simple hack n slash its the only western rpg i like besides maybe fable, i really did not like bg or kotor series as much i like ff4/ff6/ff7/fftactics and ffx might not be my fav game but to a lot of ppl thats there fav rpg everan was a big hit on ps2 prolly more so then baldurs gate series combinedProtossRushX

I'm really trying to understand here. You consider Kotor a simple hack and slash...and Diablo as not ahack and slash?

[QUOTE="deviates1080"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"][QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
mistervengeance

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

KOTOR II was made by Obsidian.

kotor 2 was better IMO

Really? I enjoyed 2, but I thought the story and strength of the characters in the first game made it superior. Second one was great though, I just wish they'd get on with KOTOR 3 and blow both away.

I doubt anyone will waste their time reading that.DirrtyNinja

[QUOTE="Douja555"]

FF is trash,

WRPGs >> JPRPGs

Out_Kast3000

fail

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

ProtossRushX

People said that Killzone 2 was in-game footage, too. "Oh look, the player is shooting, it must be in-game!".

I mean, I personally doubt that they'd have a complete combat engine ready to be displayed one or two years ago (whenever it was shown), and then not show anything for the next one or two years.

It could just be a 'concept' of what the combat should look like, or a tech demo. It's possible.

[QUOTE="mistervengeance"][QUOTE="deviates1080"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"][QUOTE="Zaxro"][QUOTE="JAMES_L_BROOKS"]

[QUOTE="colmusterd28"]Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
deviates1080

lol no... just no....

Kotor and Baulder's gate II are better than any game square has pumped out since the SNES.

lol? i hope your joking if not you should look into fixing that right away

KOTOR I - 9.1

KOTOR II - 8.5

Baulders gate II - 9.2

...

FFXII - 9.0

FFX - 9.3

FFVIII - 9.5

FFVII - 9.5

...

yea square owns bioware....

KOTOR II was made by Obsidian.

kotor 2 was better IMO

Really? I enjoyed 2, but I thought the story and strength of the characters in the first game made it superior. Second one was great though, I just wish they'd get on with KOTOR 3 and blow both away.

Kotor II was great. Had a worse storyline but better gameplay. Though the end section of Kotor II was pretty bad just because it was so rushed. First I overall prefer as well though.

mass effect will never even come close to touching any of the final fantasies

well, maybe X-2, and XI.

mistervengeance

I doubt anyone will waste their time reading that.DirrtyNinja

You called that one Dirrty, I looked at how sloppy the paragraphs were and I said "well f*** that." lol

[QUOTE="ProtossRushX"]

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

Planeforger

People said that Killzone 2 was in-game footage, too. "Oh look, the player is shooting, it must be in-game!".

I mean, I personally doubt that they'd have a complete combat engine ready to be displayed one or two years ago (whenever it was shown), and then not show anything for the next one or two years.

It could just be a 'concept' of what the combat should look like, or a tech demo. It's possible.

oh i know but square was showin what it will look like on the ps3 and what to expect im sure there goin to try to make as close to that as possible, and this isn't a FPS like killzone

FF can easily have those kinda graphics an when you do like an attack they have it all scripted out like in ff7/ff8/ff9/ff10

you click your move then it goes into the move and you dont really control anythin cept what you choose to do, so yeah i think that is exactly what the in game graphics are ognna look like even if was just a test on non-ps3 hardware thye are tryin to show what it will look like when there done with the game

[QUOTE="ProtossRushX"]diablo 2 ismore fun for me thenbaldurs gate an kotor imo an its just a simple hack n slash its the only western rpg i like besides maybe fable, i really did not like bg or kotor series as much i like ff4/ff6/ff7/fftactics and ffx might not be my fav game but to a lot of ppl thats there fav rpg everan was a big hit on ps2 prolly more so then baldurs gate series combinedwiwahib

I'm really trying to understand here. You consider Kotor a simple hack and slash...and Diablo as not ahack and slash?

No, he's saying that a simple hack'n'slash game (Diablo 2) and a simple sandbox RPG (Fable) are better than Baldurs Gate and KOTOR, demonstrating that he has absolutely no taste in role-playing games.

In other words, he wouldn't know a good RPG even if it hit him with a Legendary Greatsword +5. (oh god, I can't believe I just wrote that) :P

[QUOTE="ProtossRushX"]

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

HOW ABOUT THIS DOES IT LOOK LIKE CGI QUALITY (?)

OK since neither of thosewere cgi let me show you of a real cgi shot looks like in 13 an why you can tell one is almost like cgi while the other is CGI

here

now you know what im talkin about the first 2 shots are using the ps3 exclusive white engine which can only be rendered on the cell processor in the ps3

the last shot is awesome well done cgi for ff13

thread over this is over the non-cgi argument is dead imo

Zaxro

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the first shot (second doesn't matter in the least) was not on actual Ps3 harware.

i'm guessing neither of them were, but looking at how valuable these games are to sony, and how much support sony have given to other devs working on important titles for them, i'm guessing the same technology (ps3 edge tools i think, used for uncharted and ratchet)will be employed to get as much out of the ps3 as possible for ff13 and versus

the end result will look as good as that, i'm guessing better; that firstshot only looks a bit better than uncharted i thinkand uncharted's only using 30% of the spe's

Mass Effect should be compared to Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Not to Final Fantasy. The RPG genre nowadays is far more diverse.nervmeister

Fallout 3 and Oblivion aren't exactly a good example of diversity - they'll be almost identical, and equally hated by most fans of their respective series. ;)

[QUOTE="wiwahib"]

[QUOTE="ProtossRushX"]diablo 2 ismore fun for me thenbaldurs gate an kotor imo an its just a simple hack n slash its the only western rpg i like besides maybe fable, i really did not like bg or kotor series as much i like ff4/ff6/ff7/fftactics and ffx might not be my fav game but to a lot of ppl thats there fav rpg everan was a big hit on ps2 prolly more so then baldurs gate series combinedPlaneforger

I'm really trying to understand here. You consider Kotor a simple hack and slash...and Diablo as not ahack and slash?

No, he's saying that a simple hack'n'slash game (Diablo 2) and a simple sandbox RPG (Fable) are better than Baldurs Gate and KOTOR, demonstrating that he has absolutely no taste in role-playing games.

In other words, he wouldn't know a good RPG even if it hit him with a Legendary Greatsword +5. (oh god, I can't believe I just wrote that) :P

Even Lilarcor would fail into talking sense into him:lol: