If Mass Effect gets a 9-10/10 then Final Fantasy 13 better get 10-11/10 imo

First off, let me say this

bioware>>>square and all their affiliates

second of all, ffx was the last good final fantasy game out, everything after it has sucked hardcore. and, who are they kidding with the easy as balls difficulty level? make the dang game harder for once.

[QUOTE="Juggernaut140"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Funny, the mighty FF is being bashed, I didn't see this coming, I will put an end to this bull, Im anticipating ME though, but you people didn't give any respect for FF series and JRPGs because the name Mass effect was mentioned ( it has to be the other way people).

I only saw one trailer of FFXIII and versus, I don't know anything about them, there is no information on how is the gameplay mechanics and how it will play, and just the name Final Fantasy will PWN the whole Bioware company with it's library, yo hear me.

It is again funny, comparing a company only appeared 10 years at most to a company that is in the industry for more than 20 years, don't tell me they achieved in 10 years what Square did in 20, you will make yourself silly as hell, because I'll prove you wrong.

I think the problem with fanboys is the fact they didn't play each side of RPGs, I'll say to them, JRPGs are good and WRPGs also, I think most WRPGs fans started with KOTOR on the XBOX and they didn't play any JRPGs, so all they can see and hear is FF, same goes with JRPGs fans, I also think they have started with PS1 with FF7 or PS2 with FFX and they also didn't experience WRPGs, one advice, go play and try this games, fanboys, before you judge.

BUT, when it comes to comparing FF with any unproven new IP, it is an insult to FF, don't get me wrong here, Mass effect will be great, I hope so, but it is too early for this game to compare it with a name like FF, it is just like comparing R&C with Mario or MGS with any generic game (SC).

HAZE-Unit

Bioware owns Square Enix GTF over it

You want my attention, you got it, but this is the only post I'll write for you unless you provide me with some real answers.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="Juggernaut140"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Funny, the mighty FF is being bashed, I didn't see this coming, I will put an end to this bull, Im anticipating ME though, but you people didn't give any respect for FF series and JRPGs because the name Mass effect was mentioned ( it has to be the other way people).

I only saw one trailer of FFXIII and versus, I don't know anything about them, there is no information on how is the gameplay mechanics and how it will play, and just the name Final Fantasy will PWN the whole Bioware company with it's library, yo hear me.

It is again funny, comparing a company only appeared 10 years at most to a company that is in the industry for more than 20 years, don't tell me they achieved in 10 years what Square did in 20, you will make yourself silly as hell, because I'll prove you wrong.

I think the problem with fanboys is the fact they didn't play each side of RPGs, I'll say to them, JRPGs are good and WRPGs also, I think most WRPGs fans started with KOTOR on the XBOX and they didn't play any JRPGs, so all they can see and hear is FF, same goes with JRPGs fans, I also think they have started with PS1 with FF7 or PS2 with FFX and they also didn't experience WRPGs, one advice, go play and try this games, fanboys, before you judge.

BUT, when it comes to comparing FF with any unproven new IP, it is an insult to FF, don't get me wrong here, Mass effect will be great, I hope so, but it is too early for this game to compare it with a name like FF, it is just like comparing R&C with Mario or MGS with any generic game (SC).

KodiakGTS

Bioware owns Square Enix GTF over it

You want my attention, you got it, but this is the only post I'll write for you unless you provide me with some real answers.

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

EDIT: Btw, there was a game called Summoner, it destroys both Bioware's games.

[QUOTE="KodiakGTS"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="Juggernaut140"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Funny, the mighty FF is being bashed, I didn't see this coming, I will put an end to this bull, Im anticipating ME though, but you people didn't give any respect for FF series and JRPGs because the name Mass effect was mentioned ( it has to be the other way people).

I only saw one trailer of FFXIII and versus, I don't know anything about them, there is no information on how is the gameplay mechanics and how it will play, and just the name Final Fantasy will PWN the whole Bioware company with it's library, yo hear me.

It is again funny, comparing a company only appeared 10 years at most to a company that is in the industry for more than 20 years, don't tell me they achieved in 10 years what Square did in 20, you will make yourself silly as hell, because I'll prove you wrong.

I think the problem with fanboys is the fact they didn't play each side of RPGs, I'll say to them, JRPGs are good and WRPGs also, I think most WRPGs fans started with KOTOR on the XBOX and they didn't play any JRPGs, so all they can see and hear is FF, same goes with JRPGs fans, I also think they have started with PS1 with FF7 or PS2 with FFX and they also didn't experience WRPGs, one advice, go play and try this games, fanboys, before you judge.

BUT, when it comes to comparing FF with any unproven new IP, it is an insult to FF, don't get me wrong here, Mass effect will be great, I hope so, but it is too early for this game to compare it with a name like FF, it is just like comparing R&C with Mario or MGS with any generic game (SC).

HAZE-Unit

Bioware owns Square Enix GTF over it

You want my attention, you got it, but this is the only post I'll write for you unless you provide me with some real answers.

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

HOW ABOUT THIS DOES IT LOOK LIKE CGI QUALITY (?)

OK since neither of thosewere cgi let me show you of a real cgi shot looks like in 13 an why you can tell one is almost like cgi while the other is CGI

here

now you know what im talkin about the first 2 shots are using the ps3 exclusive white engine which can only be rendered on the cell processor in the ps3

the last shot is awesome well done cgi for ff13

thread over this is over the non-cgi argument is dead imo

ProtossRushX

The White Engine went multi-plat awhile ago...read up on your facts.

and, who are they kidding with the easy as balls difficulty level? make the dang game harder for once.

mtradr43

why. we know NOTHING of FF13. YOU know nothing about ff13. you are very high on my list of people to not to be taken serious

Go away, and stop judging games that aren't even out yet.Relys

That goes for all of system wars!

What surprises me so much is that the whole post has only 2 periods in 13 paragraphs. That's quite an accomplishment by any standards.

Bioware has been owning Square Enix for years... get ready for it to happen again...
colmusterd28

QFT!

Is it just me or is it not really foolish to base "what the score should be" on a game you have:

A) Never Played

B) Only Seen Trailers of

C) Have Little info that has been provided by anyone impartial

D) or "Because of have played this developers games before"

If Mass Effect scores a 10 for example, why should that have any baring on what Final Fantasy Scores?

The Final Fantasy series has been excellent thus far, but who knows really? Are they even at a stage where there is a playable demo yet?

This topic is basically doing nothing more then fueling the masses of ridiculous posts about reviews posted on games that 99.99% of people who are complaining said reviews have not even played yet.

Over the last decade I cannot even count the amount of games that looked amazing in previews and in Trailers and when it finally hit the shelves it was meh. Sudeki, Killzone, The Getaway heck even Lair of we are looking for a recent example spring to mind.

The concept of being Preemptively outraged over a potental score of a pair of games no one has played yet is perhaps the newest low of the fanboy.

KOTOR outscored Final Fantasy XII

KOTOR 2 outscored Final Fantasy X2

So one persons "opinion" on Bioware is interesting, but overall it seems the concept that a Bioware game outscoring a Final Fantasy is not quite as alien as some people seem to think. Square and Bioware are both excellent firms.

Once the game is out and people actually have copies in hand then by all means scream and shout about which one is better, but to base opinions on trailers of a game that doesn't even have a release date yet is just out there, to say the least.

Is it just me or is it not really foolish to base "what the score should be" on a game you have:

A) Never Played

B) Only Seen Trailers of

C) Have Little info that has been provided by anyone impartial

D) or "Because of have played this developers games before"

If Mass Effect scores a 10 for example, why should that have any baring on what Final Fantasy Scores?

The Final Fantasy series has been excellent thus far, but who knows really? Are they even at a stage where there is a playable demo yet?

This topic is basically doing nothing more then fueling the masses of ridiculous posts about reviews posted on games that 99.99% of people who are complaining said reviews have not even played yet.

Over the last decade I cannot even count the amount of games that looked amazing in previews and in Trailers and when it finally hit the shelves it was meh. Sudeki, Killzone, The Getaway heck even Lair of we are looking for a recent example spring to mind.

The concept of being Preemptively outraged over a potental score of a pair of games no one has played yet is perhaps the newest low of the fanboy.

KOTOR outscored Final Fantasy XII

KOTOR 2 outscored Final Fantasy X2

So one persons "opinion" on Bioware is interesting, but overall it seems the concept that a Bioware game outscoring a Final Fantasy is not quite as alien as some people seem to think. Square and Bioware are both excellent firms.

Once the game is out and people actually have copies in hand then by all means scream and shout about which one is better, but to base opinions on trailers of a game that doesn't even have a release date yet is just out there, to say the least.

cosmostein77

Let's end this thread with this marvelous post, shall we?

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="KodiakGTS"]

First let me say, my whole arguement hinges you not hiding behind the shield of "only teh gamespot matters on system wars," so if you're going to say that, save yourself a post. But anyway,

Yes Square/SE has been a great RPG developer for a long time, but Bioware has put out higher quality titles than they have as of late. Square has not released a game which scored higher than Balder's Gate II or Kotor (on gamerankings and metacritic) since the SNES era. As far as modern RPG's are concerned, they've been bested the past few gens by Bioware. Granted, Bioware has not released as many titles as square, but as far as quality goes, the proof is in the pudding...or in this case review scores.KodiakGTS

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

First off, I misread or not, I wanted to show you how Square was/is/always been there with gamers.

Second, I've told you reviews and scores don't mean much, everybody knows Square is a better company than Bioware, everybody knows Square has better/more variety games than Bioware.

Third, I said you are being immature, not you, but your logic, you have to understand what Im gonna say well, "you are comparing two games to the whole library, and saying they are both better than any game that Square offered, with all of that, you are basing it with scores", that's what make your logic worse, and what make it worst, you are praising Square, how did you do that? it is an amzaing work you did there.

4th, Unlike you, I've been playing all the great games from Square, watching is not playing or trying a game for 10 minutes, and I didn't include all the great games that made me love RPGs more and more only from Square and enix. which is obviously now. it is Square-enix, and obviously you stopped playing Square games from FF7.

just look at the graphics on ff13 from the trailers and you will see exactly what im talkin about

the in game footage and the action shots in ff13 trailer look like cgi quality with no rigged faces and sloppy lip syncing

anyone can tell that that hundreds of more effort must be going into ff13 if they are able to make the facial movements look hundreds of times more realistic then mass effects

everytime i look at a mass effect character talking or moving its mouth i cringe in disgust the graphics look really almost terrible when compared to the ff13 footage now this is just graphically speaking aesthetically i feel the game is in a whole nother league as well

its something about japanese designers and graphic's that make there rpg's look real and flawless where as things like unreal/gears of war look fake an rigged an sloppy but with very complexgrfx mind you but it doesn't LOOK good like ff13 does

i dont even think metal gear solid 4 looks as good as ff13 either an its in a much earlier stage then that game so im not just harpin on the 360 games

also i have played bioware games they are huge big sandbox's and give you a lot of choices, but the storylines are very generic and not complex and don't bring in big world issues like square has done with nature vs science and lots of hugely deep plots that aren't even discussed in movies in this day an age ff is a trend setter in story department where as bioware has proved nothin in its previous games storywise

ok next we have characters go look at the guy in ff13 versus an measure him up to the main character in mass effect its not even close this guy looks like the next emoized super sephiroth compared to a baldin headed generic space dude who looks like a backup soldier in gears of war, hes not going to be winnin any character of the year awards like lightning the female lead in ff13 or that dude in ff13 versus an thats a fact, square put so much more effort into there characters just everythin about them looks better from faces to clothes to background to appearance everything.

gameplay bioware gameplay is usually pretty borin imo an i get seriously addicted to the combat in ff7/ffx and stuff i just love summoning my uber creatures like ifrit an bahamut and doing my massive limit breaks

bioware no ur gameplay isn't that fun sorry man it just isnt anmass effect looks like it contiunues that while ff13 looks like it goes deeper an next gen an more fun

and lastly music

i have massive amounts of ff mp3's and soundtracks in my mp3 player and my computer an listen to them all the time they are the best music in all video games period. and ff13 versus trailer music sounds brilliantly orchastreated starts off good then getsfast an awesome an pulls you in wow, i never felt this way with any of biowaremusic in the past an dont expect anythin new from what ive seen so far from mass effect's music compared the trailer in ff13 versus thats just next gen music againsquare enix has donean ff haspulled music further in there rpgs

mass effect is a good game but u cantcompare it to a next gen rpg like ff13 imo from whatweve seen so far

ProtossRushX

well everything looks different when you have your fanboy glasses on...

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]TRANSLATION: I'm a cow and can't accept WRPGs being on par (if not better) than JRPGs.Out_Kast3000

It has nothing to do with that.

Western RPGs just generally suck, especially when it comes to story and music, two things which are bigger in RPGs than any other genre.

name some really bad wrpg's...

It has nothing to do with that.

Western RPGs just generally suck, especially when it comes to story and music, two things which are bigger in RPGs than any other genre.

Out_Kast3000

[QUOTE="KodiakGTS"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="KodiakGTS"]

First let me say, my whole arguement hinges you not hiding behind the shield of "only teh gamespot matters on system wars," so if you're going to say that, save yourself a post. But anyway,

Yes Square/SE has been a great RPG developer for a long time, but Bioware has put out higher quality titles than they have as of late. Square has not released a game which scored higher than Balder's Gate II or Kotor (on gamerankings and metacritic) since the SNES era. As far as modern RPG's are concerned, they've been bested the past few gens by Bioware. Granted, Bioware has not released as many titles as square, but as far as quality goes, the proof is in the pudding...or in this case review scores.HAZE-Unit

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

First off, I misread or not, I wanted to show you how Square was/is/always been there with gamers.

Second, I've told you reviews and scores don't mean much, everybody knows Square is a better company than Bioware, everybody knows Square has better/more variety games than Bioware.

Third, I said you are being immature, not you, but your logic, you have to understand what Im gonna say well, "you are comparing two games to the whole library, and saying they are both better than any game that Square offered, with all of that, you are basing it with scores", that's what make your logic worse, and what make it worst, you are praising Square, how did you do that? it is an amzaing work you did there.

4th, Unlike you, I've been playing all the great games from Square, watching is not playing or trying a game for 10 minutes, and I didn't include all the great games that made me love RPGs more and more only from Square and enix. which is obviously now. it is Square-enix, and obviously you stopped playing Square games from FF7.

In all honesty, HAZE-Unit, opinions do not matter. My opinion means nothing to you, yours means nothing to me. The only thing that does matter is an amalgamation of a vast cross-section of different groups and their opinions. For example, if someone were to believe that Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing was the best game ever made, and reviews and/or review compilation sites were not allowed, you would be completely incapable of dispelling the completely ludicrous notions of the aforementioned individual. Reviews and review amalgamation sites are a must when arguments of this sort arise, as they serve as de facto mediators and, indeed, judges in the discussion. Therefore, opinions do not matter in a heated discussion on the internet (a series of tubes that is too filled with the crap that is ridiculous bias anyways), as, otherwise, chaos even greater than the pre-existing chaos would reign.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so is the person with whom you are having your discussion, and each is valid, but he has backing and you do not. Therefore, in an argument, he wins. However, as I have already said, this has no bearing on the validity of either party's opinion. It simply affects the validity of their opinions in an argument.

For example, I believe that Deus Ex is much better than even Ocarina of Time, but, whenever I begin to argue with anyone about it, I will always be annihilated because other people have backing and I do not. However, both of our opinions are equally valid. I cannot stress this enough.

Does this look like CGI to YOU (?)

HOW ABOUT THIS DOES IT LOOK LIKE CGI QUALITY (?)

OK since neither of thosewere cgi let me show you of a real cgi shot looks like in 13 an why you can tell one is almost like cgi while the other is CGI

here

now you know what im talkin about the first 2 shots are using the ps3 exclusive white engine which can only be rendered on the cell processor in the ps3

the last shot is awesome well done cgi for ff13

thread over this is over the non-cgi argument is dead imo

ProtossRushX

it looks like cg cause the faces are perfect. cg doesn't do a good job of facial movements and from what i've seen those look like cg to me.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="KodiakGTS"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

thepwninator

First off, I misread or not, I wanted to show you how Square was/is/always been there with gamers.

Second, I've told you reviews and scores don't mean much, everybody knows Square is a better company than Bioware, everybody knows Square has better/more variety games than Bioware.

Third, I said you are being immature, not you, but your logic, you have to understand what Im gonna say well, "you are comparing two games to the whole library, and saying they are both better than any game that Square offered, with all of that, you are basing it with scores", that's what make your logic worse, and what make it worst, you are praising Square, how did you do that? it is an amzaing work you did there.

4th, Unlike you, I've been playing all the great games from Square, watching is not playing or trying a game for 10 minutes, and I didn't include all the great games that made me love RPGs more and more only from Square and enix. which is obviously now. it is Square-enix, and obviously you stopped playing Square games from FF7.

In all honesty, HAZE-Unit, opinions do not matter. My opinion means nothing to you, yours means nothing to me. The only thing that does matter is an amalgamation of a vast cross-section of different groups and their opinions. For example, if someone were to believe that Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing was the best game ever made, and reviews and/or review compilation sites were not allowed, you would be completely incapable of dispelling the completely ludicrous notions of the aforementioned individual. Reviews and review amalgamation sites are a must when arguments of this sort arise, as they serve as de facto mediators and, indeed, judges in the discussion. Therefore, opinions do not matter in a heated discussion on the internet (a series of tubes that is too filled with the crap that is ridiculous bias anyways), as, otherwise, chaos even greater than the pre-existing chaos would reign.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so is the person with whom you are having your discussion, and each is valid, but he has backing and you do not. Therefore, in an argument, he wins. However, as I have already said, this has no bearing on the validity of either party's opinion. It simply affects the validity of their opinions in an argument.

For example, I believe that Deus Ex is much better than even Ocarina of Time, but, whenever I begin to argue with anyone about it, I will always be annihilated because other people have backing and I do not. However, both of our opinions are equally valid. I cannot stress this enough.

I have one advice for you, try searching for sales figures, ask random gamers or gamers you know, about FF series( or any square game), Baldur's gate, KOTOR and Mass effect, then tell me which is more famous, keep it real.

[QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="KodiakGTS"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Are you kidding me?!!! you are making your judgments by scores and reviews, like what I said before, play the games then judge, but I'll go with your logic and will own you as hard as possible, btw, I think you started playing RPGs with the Xbox because all you remember is KOTOR and Baldur.

You are telling me Bioware is better than Square since the SNES era, lol, so funny, prepare to get owned:

This is the SNES era as you put it:

Chrono trigger, 94%.

FF III, 93%.

Super mario RPG, 88%.

PS1 era :

FF 7, 92%.

FF 9, 92%.

Chrono Cross, 92%.

Xenogears, 90%.

Vagrant story, 92%.

FF 8, 90%.

FF tactics, 85%.

Brave Fencer Musashi, 80%.

PS2 era:

FFX, 91%.

FFXII, 90%.

Kingdom hearts, 86%.

KH 2, 87%

Btw, I've ignored ALOT OF great games which are considered by alot of media and MOST IMPORTANTLY gamers who actually play games rather comparing reviews, all time favorites.

Another thing, you are comparing two games to a whole library of games which is also immature, you failed big time.

Now for Bioware time.

SNES era:

Nothing.

PS1/PC era: ( almost nothing)

Baldur's gate( PC), 92%

PS2/XBOX/PC era:

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn ( PC ) 94%

This game was the only game scored high in the whole library of the series, btw I've played it for one hour and return it because I was PLAYING more advanced gameplay and graphics at the time when PS2 was there, so please don't go with scores, go with your experience.

KOTOR (PC/XBOX), 94%.

This game is the only game I respect from Bioware, but again, it doesn't go near FF series with gameplay, story, twists, game mechanics, putting/learning skills and abilities, summons, characters, secrets, the only good thing which made it memorable was the creation of your character and how your actions affected the overall story, the story itself was meh.

HAZE-Unit

First off, I misread or not, I wanted to show you how Square was/is/always been there with gamers.

Second, I've told you reviews and scores don't mean much, everybody knows Square is a better company than Bioware, everybody knows Square has better/more variety games than Bioware.

Third, I said you are being immature, not you, but your logic, you have to understand what Im gonna say well, "you are comparing two games to the whole library, and saying they are both better than any game that Square offered, with all of that, you are basing it with scores", that's what make your logic worse, and what make it worst, you are praising Square, how did you do that? it is an amzaing work you did there.

4th, Unlike you, I've been playing all the great games from Square, watching is not playing or trying a game for 10 minutes, and I didn't include all the great games that made me love RPGs more and more only from Square and enix. which is obviously now. it is Square-enix, and obviously you stopped playing Square games from FF7.

In all honesty, HAZE-Unit, opinions do not matter. My opinion means nothing to you, yours means nothing to me. The only thing that does matter is an amalgamation of a vast cross-section of different groups and their opinions. For example, if someone were to believe that Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing was the best game ever made, and reviews and/or review compilation sites were not allowed, you would be completely incapable of dispelling the completely ludicrous notions of the aforementioned individual. Reviews and review amalgamation sites are a must when arguments of this sort arise, as they serve as de facto mediators and, indeed, judges in the discussion. Therefore, opinions do not matter in a heated discussion on the internet (a series of tubes that is too filled with the crap that is ridiculous bias anyways), as, otherwise, chaos even greater than the pre-existing chaos would reign.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so is the person with whom you are having your discussion, and each is valid, but he has backing and you do not. Therefore, in an argument, he wins. However, as I have already said, this has no bearing on the validity of either party's opinion. It simply affects the validity of their opinions in an argument.

For example, I believe that Deus Ex is much better than even Ocarina of Time, but, whenever I begin to argue with anyone about it, I will always be annihilated because other people have backing and I do not. However, both of our opinions are equally valid. I cannot stress this enough.

I have one advice for you, try searching for sales figures, ask random gamers or gamers you know, about FF series( or any square game), Baldur's gate, KOTOR and Mass effect, then tell me which is more famous, keep it real.

Famous=/=good.

Look at Paris Hilton, Tom Cruise, or Rush Limbaugh if you want proof.

Also, seeing as how I am a white American teenage male, I know virtually no one who likes Final Fantasy more than Knights of the Old Republic or Baldur's Gate. I played XII on a friends PS2 and VII God-knows-how-long-ago, and I, quite honestly, didn't really like them. I do not like role playing games. I like role making games.

[QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

mass effect will never even come close to touching any of the final fantasies

well, maybe X-2, and XI.

nervmeister

thank you very much for not coming back with some fanboy retort

just look at the graphics on ff13 from the trailers and you will see exactly what im talkin about

ProtossRushX

dude it better be better. We wont see FF13 in 2008, i think it will be released in the US in the summer of 2009.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="thepwninator"]

In all honesty, HAZE-Unit, opinions do not matter. My opinion means nothing to you, yours means nothing to me. The only thing that does matter is an amalgamation of a vast cross-section of different groups and their opinions. For example, if someone were to believe that Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing was the best game ever made, and reviews and/or review compilation sites were not allowed, you would be completely incapable of dispelling the completely ludicrous notions of the aforementioned individual. Reviews and review amalgamation sites are a must when arguments of this sort arise, as they serve as de facto mediators and, indeed, judges in the discussion. Therefore, opinions do not matter in a heated discussion on the internet (a series of tubes that is too filled with the crap that is ridiculous bias anyways), as, otherwise, chaos even greater than the pre-existing chaos would reign.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so is the person with whom you are having your discussion, and each is valid, but he has backing and you do not. Therefore, in an argument, he wins. However, as I have already said, this has no bearing on the validity of either party's opinion. It simply affects the validity of their opinions in an argument.

For example, I believe that Deus Ex is much better than even Ocarina of Time, but, whenever I begin to argue with anyone about it, I will always be annihilated because other people have backing and I do not. However, both of our opinions are equally valid. I cannot stress this enough.

thepwninator

I have one advice for you, try searching for sales figures, ask random gamers or gamers you know, about FF series( or any square game), Baldur's gate, KOTOR and Mass effect, then tell me which is more famous, keep it real.

Famous=/=good.

Look at Paris Hilton, Tom Cruise, or Rush Limbaugh if you want proof.

Also, seeing as how I am a white American teenage male, I know virtually no one who likes Final Fantasy more than Knights of the Old Republic or Baldur's Gate. I played XII on a friends PS2 and VII God-knows-how-long-ago, and I, quite honestly, didn't really like them. I do not like role playing games. I like role making games.

I'll be moderated if I comment at your last post, so. bye bye, talk with someone else.

EDIT: I'll tell you my thoughts anyways.

You say famous=/=good, I agree with you, but in this case with FF, famous=good, actually great.

You say you are WATM, which is irrelevant with the arguement and like I've said before I may get moderated if I express my thoughts for real.

You contradict yourself by saying first, you know gamers virtually( I said go out and ask gamers in your class or whatever).

Second, you say your virtual friends don't like the game then you say that YOU don't like the game, it seems you asked yourself.

Third, you are a teenager so you are at most 19, let us do the math, FF7 was released in 1997, ten years ago, you were 9 years when you played this game and you want to tell me your impressions about the game,I don't think you can review games when you were 9 years old, even if you played the game recently, you will contridict yourself again because you said "ages ago".

Last but not least, you don't like RPGs but you like making one?!!!! don't know what you mean.

[QUOTE="thepwninator"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

[QUOTE="thepwninator"]

In all honesty, HAZE-Unit, opinions do not matter. My opinion means nothing to you, yours means nothing to me. The only thing that does matter is an amalgamation of a vast cross-section of different groups and their opinions. For example, if someone were to believe that Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing was the best game ever made, and reviews and/or review compilation sites were not allowed, you would be completely incapable of dispelling the completely ludicrous notions of the aforementioned individual. Reviews and review amalgamation sites are a must when arguments of this sort arise, as they serve as de facto mediators and, indeed, judges in the discussion. Therefore, opinions do not matter in a heated discussion on the internet (a series of tubes that is too filled with the crap that is ridiculous bias anyways), as, otherwise, chaos even greater than the pre-existing chaos would reign.

You are entitled to your opinion, and so is the person with whom you are having your discussion, and each is valid, but he has backing and you do not. Therefore, in an argument, he wins. However, as I have already said, this has no bearing on the validity of either party's opinion. It simply affects the validity of their opinions in an argument.

For example, I believe that Deus Ex is much better than even Ocarina of Time, but, whenever I begin to argue with anyone about it, I will always be annihilated because other people have backing and I do not. However, both of our opinions are equally valid. I cannot stress this enough.

HAZE-Unit

I have one advice for you, try searching for sales figures, ask random gamers or gamers you know, about FF series( or any square game), Baldur's gate, KOTOR and Mass effect, then tell me which is more famous, keep it real.

Famous=/=good.

Look at Paris Hilton, Tom Cruise, or Rush Limbaugh if you want proof.

Also, seeing as how I am a white American teenage male, I know virtually no one who likes Final Fantasy more than Knights of the Old Republic or Baldur's Gate. I played XII on a friends PS2 and VII God-knows-how-long-ago, and I, quite honestly, didn't really like them. I do not like role playing games. I like role making games.

I'll be moderated if I comment at your last post, so. bye bye, talk with someone else.

EDIT: I'll tell you my thoughts anyways.

You say famous=/=good, I agree with you, but in this case with FF, famous=good, actually great.

You say you are WATM, which is irrelevant with the arguement and like I've said before I may get moderated if I express my thoughts for real.

You contradict yourself by saying first, you know gamers virtually( I said go out and ask gamers in your class or whatever).

Second, you say your virtual friends don't like the game then you say that YOU don't like the game, it seems you asked yourself.

Third, you are a teenager so you are at most 19, let us do the math, FF7 was released in 1997, ten years ago, you were 9 years when you played this game and you want to tell me your impressions about the game,I don't think you can review games when you were 9 years old, even if you played the game recently, you will contridict yourself again because you said "ages ago".

Last but not least, you don't like RPGs but you like making one?!!!! don't know what you mean.

1. When I say "virtually" I mean "pretty much" not on "teh interwebz".

2. Ditto.

3. I was actually 7 in 1997 (played Half-Life at the age of 8 and loved it, just so you know the stage I was at in my progression through video games [I still love it though]), and I didn't play FF7 until I was ten. I did not enjoy it at the time, but I did not particularly enjoy RPGs at the time either. Perhaps if I were to play it today, I would find it enjoyable.

4. I do not like to play a predetermined role when I play RPGs. I prefer to do whatever I think *I* should do, and, quite frankly, the developers in the Final Fantasy games do not grant me any leeway in that regard.

1. When I say "virtually" I mean "pretty much" not on "teh interwebz".

2. Ditto.

3. I was actually 7 in 1997 (played Half-Life at the age of 8 and loved it, just so you know the stage I was at in my progression through video games [I still love it though]), and I didn't play FF7 until I was ten. I did not enjoy it at the time, but I did not particularly enjoy RPGs at the time either. Perhaps if I were to play it today, I would find it enjoyable.

4. I do not like to play a predetermined role when I play RPGs. I prefer to do whatever I think *I* should do, and, quite frankly, the developers in the Final Fantasy games do not grant me any leeway in that regard.

thepwninator

Ok, I misread it again, but second point is solid and it is part of my answer to your 3rd point, just delete the word "virtual".

3. You were 10 and you generally didn't like RPGs, that proves something, I respect you for admitting the fact, the problem is like what I did say in my original post most WRPGs gamers started with the XBOX and didn't play RPGs in the PS2( or FF series in this case), you said you played FFXII on friend's PS2, so you also one of the people who didn't have PS2 and only tried one FF game, that's part of the hate for this great game.

4.Your friend has FFXII, that mean he liked the game, unfortunately, you have experienced a bad FF, FFX was better.

5. Predetermined games doesn't mean the game will suck, actually it has better stories than WRPGs, btw, the only game that make you do whatever you want to do is KOTOR.

TRANSLATION: I'm a cow and can't accept WRPGs being on par (if not better) than JRPGs.LosDaddie

Thanks, didn't want to spend my time reading that wall o' text

just look at the graphics on ff13 from the trailers and you will see exactly what im talkin about

ProtossRushX

thats where I stopped reading, when will people learn that Good Graphics=/= Good Game

[QUOTE="thepwninator"]

1. When I say "virtually" I mean "pretty much" not on "teh interwebz".

2. Ditto.

3. I was actually 7 in 1997 (played Half-Life at the age of 8 and loved it, just so you know the stage I was at in my progression through video games [I still love it though]), and I didn't play FF7 until I was ten. I did not enjoy it at the time, but I did not particularly enjoy RPGs at the time either. Perhaps if I were to play it today, I would find it enjoyable.

4. I do not like to play a predetermined role when I play RPGs. I prefer to do whatever I think *I* should do, and, quite frankly, the developers in the Final Fantasy games do not grant me any leeway in that regard.

HAZE-Unit

Ok, I misread it again, but second point is solid and it is part of my answer to your 3rd point, just delete the word "virtual".

3. You were 10 and you generally didn't like RPGs, that proves something, I respect you for admitting the fact, the problem is like what I did say in my original post most WRPGs gamers started with the XBOX and didn't play RPGs in the PS2( or FF series in this case), you said you played FFXII on friend's PS2, so you also one of the people who didn't have PS2 and only tried one FF game, that's part of the hate for this great game.

4.Your friend has FFXII, that mean he liked the game, unfortunately, you have experienced a bad FF, FFX was better.

5. Predetermined games doesn't mean the game will suck, actually it has better stories than WRPGs, btw, the only game that make you do whatever you want to do is KOTOR.

Paragraph 2: indeed, perhaps my bias against FF is unfounded. However, there is not much I can do now to rectify it; my funds (that are not set aside for Mass Effect) are virtually nonexistent (I had to save for a year and a half to get my 360 alone) and I, therefore, cannot buy a PS2 and a copy of FFX, nor can I borrow the PS2 from my friend, as she sold it on eBay to get a Wii. As a result, unless I have some "deus ex machina" opportunity to do so, I will never be able to play any Final Fantasy games prior to whichever one comes out next generation (if I get the console to which it is coming, that is).

Point 5: true, predetermined games do not necessarily suck (as evidenced by my tendency to enjoy shooters). In spite of this, I do not enjoy games whose sole enjoyable aspect is the story; if the gameplay is not exciting or weighty choices are not to be made, I would probably prefer simply to replay Deus Ex and enjoy and revisit the amazing nuances of its story coupled with heart-pumping action, a deep skill system, and well-implemented exploration aspects. Yes, an amazing story can enhance the experience superlatively, but if it has nothing that is enjoyable to back it up, the entire game, in my mind, is simply an exercise in futility; a chore, if you will.

On a note unrelated to this thread, or System Wars, for that matter, if you have never played Deus Ex (the original, NOT Invisible War), buy it on eBay or something. It has an amazing story as well as enjoyable gameplay.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="thepwninator"]

1. When I say "virtually" I mean "pretty much" not on "teh interwebz".

2. Ditto.

3. I was actually 7 in 1997 (played Half-Life at the age of 8 and loved it, just so you know the stage I was at in my progression through video games [I still love it though]), and I didn't play FF7 until I was ten. I did not enjoy it at the time, but I did not particularly enjoy RPGs at the time either. Perhaps if I were to play it today, I would find it enjoyable.

4. I do not like to play a predetermined role when I play RPGs. I prefer to do whatever I think *I* should do, and, quite frankly, the developers in the Final Fantasy games do not grant me any leeway in that regard.

thepwninator

Ok, I misread it again, but second point is solid and it is part of my answer to your 3rd point, just delete the word "virtual".

3. You were 10 and you generally didn't like RPGs, that proves something, I respect you for admitting the fact, the problem is like what I did say in my original post most WRPGs gamers started with the XBOX and didn't play RPGs in the PS2( or FF series in this case), you said you played FFXII on friend's PS2, so you also one of the people who didn't have PS2 and only tried one FF game, that's part of the hate for this great game.

4.Your friend has FFXII, that mean he liked the game, unfortunately, you have experienced a bad FF, FFX was better.

5. Predetermined games doesn't mean the game will suck, actually it has better stories than WRPGs, btw, the only game that make you do whatever you want to do is KOTOR.

Paragraph 2: indeed, perhaps my bias against FF is unfounded. However, there is not much I can do now to rectify it; my funds (that are not set aside for Mass Effect) are virtually nonexistent (I had to save for a year and a half to get my 360 alone) and I, therefore, cannot buy a PS2 and a copy of FFX, nor can I borrow the PS2 from my friend, as she sold it on eBay to get a Wii. As a result, unless I have some "deus ex machina" opportunity to do so, I will never be able to play any Final Fantasy games prior to whichever one comes out next generation (if I get the console to which it is coming, that is).

Point 5: true, predetermined games do not necessarily suck (as evidenced by my tendency to enjoy shooters). In spite of this, I do not enjoy games whose sole enjoyable aspect is the story; if the gameplay is not exciting or weighty choices are not to be made, I would probably prefer simply to replay Deus Ex and enjoy and revisit the amazing nuances of its story coupled with heart-pumping action, a deep skill system, and well-implemented exploration aspects. Yes, an amazing story can enhance the experience superlatively, but if it has nothing that is enjoyable to back it up, the entire game, in my mind, is simply an exercise in futility; a chore, if you will.

On a note unrelated to this thread, or System Wars, for that matter, if you have never played Deus Ex (the original, NOT Invisible War), buy it on eBay or something. It has an amazing story as well as enjoyable gameplay.

Too bad you didn't experience the mighty PS2, in the future, if you have some money, look for the best deal for 60GB PS3, you will be blessed, 360, PS2( BC) and PS3.

Alot of games has what you do want, but if you are only talking about FF, it also has alot of things to do, alot of skills, alot of combinations, alot of weapons, I've just mentioned the story because it is the only thing predetermined, alot of customization is in FFs and alot of RPG games, you know, there is other RPGs I like more than FF, I dream of hearing the name Suikoden announced or in development, same goes with beyond the beyond, legend of dragoon, legend of legaia, vagrant story, new chrono game, vandal hearts, summoner and much more.

Unfortunately, I didn't play any deus ex, maybe I'll give it a try.

[QUOTE="thepwninator"]

5. Predetermined games doesn't mean the game will suck, actually it has better stories than WRPGs, btw, the only game that make you do whatever you want to do is KOTOR.

HAZE-Unit

What? Try almost every WRPG on the market.