IGN's Matt C talks 3rd party Wii woes.

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

JayPee89

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

Sad but true.

The thing is yes third parties want those sales but they hardly put any effort for marketing. They can't just put a game on shelves an wait for 500,000 units sold in one day when everyone has never heard of the game. Look at Gears of War, it was a new IP from 2006 and I doubt that everyone (casuals) heard about the game, until the commercial went on the air with Mad World and now GeoW became a recognition title.

What about the bad games like Redsteel? It sold well because Ubisoft promoted it as the first Wii FPS that uses motion sensing and the waggle. It interested a lot of casuals.

I would agree. Have you seen the 20 games that we will be playing in 2008 article from EGM? They avoided the games that had Mario or Zelda in the title and the list, in my opinion, was horrid. I can't remember how many games involved mini-games, but it was a disappointing number. I can post a list when I get home if anyone cares.

Thing is, this is how it's always been with a Nintendo console. Yet, everyone seems to act like this trend just started happening.

[QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

X_Evo

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

I have heard sheep arguing that the Wii has plenty of mature games, they'd been making posts with pictures almost all of last year when Cows and Lems said that the crappy games are what sell.

Cows and Lems have been saying these very things about the Wii since its release.Kekira

So? Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

I agree with him, but what is Nintendo going to do? They would have to start monitoring what goes on the Wii and not allowing the crap to infest it anymore.Ragnarok1051

One thing I think a lot of garmers don't understand. Is that Nintendo stop doing the QA of 3rd party games because the 3rd party companies got mad at them for doing it. Now none of the three have a QA for 3rd party games. I find it funny how many people forgot all the bad games on the PS2 and even the 360 just had like a 2.0 game with the History channel game.

That aside it not Nintendo's fault that they are able to make better games. I wish third party games did better on the Wii I really do but they don't. Nintendo fans want Nintendo games because normally they are great games better than most companies games. Square and Capcom don't seem to have many problems with the Wii but then again like Matt said they are old IPs that should sell great no matter what.

[QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

X_Evo

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

If Nintendo brought back the seal that would end it for third party games.

[QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

X_Evo

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

If there is less crap (cough Cruis'n cough) on the shelves the good games will stand out more.

If mature franchises that are already established like GTA would make a game for Wii and do a decent job I bet it would sell like crazy.

Like I said before its no surprise that No More Heroes didn't sell well in Japan, I'm willing to bet it will have strong sales in America and Europe though.

It's things like me that convince me that the average gamer doesn't understand the concept of time.

EDIT - And for **** sake for the last **** time! NO MORE HEROES IS A NICHE GAME THAT WAS PUBLISHED BY A NICHE PUBLISHER! Seriously I'm sick of people referencing this ****! (targeted towards the article writer)

Maybe if these developers get some advertisements and make people aware that their games even exist,they might get some sales on the Wii.>_> Really,I've never seen an advertisement on Metroid Prime 3,Zack and Wiki,or Resident Evil...no wonder they aren't selling.VGobbsesser

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

when NPD sales come around, you always see either wii play or nintendo games.

It's things like me that convince me that the average gamer doesn't understand the concept of time.Gunraidan

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]Maybe if these developers get some advertisements and make people aware that their games even exist,they might get some sales on the Wii.>_> Really,I've never seen an advertisement on Metroid Prime 3,Zack and Wiki,or Resident Evil...no wonder they aren't selling.Sonick54

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

when NPD sales come around, you always see either wii play or nintendo games.

How did GeoW take notice? Mass marketing, and I doubt it wouldn't sell without it. How did RedSteel sell? It was marketing again. How did RE4:WE and GHIII sell? Brand recognition. How did Zack & Wiki sell? Oh wait it sold like poo because there was no marketing involved with this game thus it was a total faliure. Carnival games sold well because there was a commercial of the title.

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]Maybe if these developers get some advertisements and make people aware that their games even exist,they might get some sales on the Wii.>_> Really,I've never seen an advertisement on Metroid Prime 3,Zack and Wiki,or Resident Evil...no wonder they aren't selling.Sonick54

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

when NPD sales come around, you always see either wii play or nintendo games.

I beleive advertising and just getting the name out there has more to do with it than anything, I consider me and most of my friends just average gamers (not hardcore or casual) and many of them have no clue about many of the good Wii games coming out until I tell them. They want the games they just don't know they are there.

[QUOTE="Sonick54"]

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]Maybe if these developers get some advertisements and make people aware that their games even exist,they might get some sales on the Wii.>_> Really,I've never seen an advertisement on Metroid Prime 3,Zack and Wiki,or Resident Evil...no wonder they aren't selling.FireEmblem_Man

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

when NPD sales come around, you always see either wii play or nintendo games.

How did GeoW take notice? Mass marketing, and I doubt it wouldn't sell without it. How did RedSteel sell? It was marketing again. How did RE4:WE and GHIII sell? Brand recognition. How did Zack & Wiki sell? Oh wait it sold like poo because there was no marketing involved with this game thus it was a total faliure. Carnival games sold well because there was a commercial of the title.

i didn't disregard that advertizing played a role as to why 3rd parties didn't sell

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"]It's things like me that convince me that the average gamer doesn't understand the concept of time.KungfuKitten

The Wii prooved it wasn't a fad and a staying success a couple months ago. It takes at the minimum of 2 years to make a high profile game, and even that is stretching it.

[QUOTE="Kekira"]Cows and Lems have been saying these very things about the Wii since its release.aliasfreak

So? Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

I brought it up because most sheep will never admit this, really it's always been like this for Nintendo and it's only an issue to people who aren't that into Nintendo's first-party. But I say it because before when cows and lems brought it up, sheep would retaliate saying that Nintendo had plenty of good thrid-party games when it was still considerably weaker in tat department than the competition. For some, it's not an issue, for others it is.

e_e oh gosh. More blinds.

Most developers weren't developing for the Wii in it's first year because they were afraid that it might turn around and bite them in the ***. Do any of you honestly think what the Wii has had in third party support during it's first year is going to be ALL it is going to get? HAHA Don't make me laugh.

Most developers, if you think logically, would wait about a year to see how the Wii really does in terms of sales before they decide on any high profile games to start developing.

Developers can't just dish out games over night. Which leads me to believe that sometime in late '08 but more likely '09 there will be a massive tidal wave of 'good' third party games coming to the Wii.

:/

i didn't disregard that advertizing played a role as to why 3rd parties didn't sell

Sonick54

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

This through me off. I believe most of the fan base would want something more than just mini games.

e_e oh gosh. More blinds.

Most developers weren't developing for the Wii in it's first year because they were afraid that it might turn around and bite them in the ***. Do any of you honestly think what the Wii has had in third party support during it's first year is going to be ALL it is going to get? HAHA Don't make me laugh.

Most developers, if you think logically, would wait about a year to see how the Wii really does in terms of sales before they decide on any high profile games to start developing.

Developers can't just dish out games over night. Which leads me to believe that sometime in late '08 but more likely '09 there will be a massive tidal wave of 'good' third party games coming to the Wii.

:/

wiretoss

bold prediction you got there

tell me, why would third parties start developing for the wii when their own games can't even get passed nintendo's? why not develop for the 360 and ps3? where their games actually, you know, sell? :|

why do you believe a wave of "good" party titles will come out of nowhere? are you gonan tell me "just wait"? Sorry to imform you but we're living the in the present.

[QUOTE="Sonick54"]

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]Maybe if these developers get some advertisements and make people aware that their games even exist,they might get some sales on the Wii.>_> Really,I've never seen an advertisement on Metroid Prime 3,Zack and Wiki,or Resident Evil...no wonder they aren't selling.umcommon

it's not just that. the fanbase is the cause. wii's majority of buyers are casuals who have only interests in mini game compilations.

when NPD sales come around, you always see either wii play or nintendo games.

I beleive advertising and just getting the name out there has more to do with it than anything, I consider me and most of my friends just average gamers (not hardcore or casual) and many of them have no clue about many of the good Wii games coming out until I tell them. They want the games they just don't know they are there.

[QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

Kekira

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

I have heard sheep arguing that the Wii has plenty of mature games, they'd been making posts with pictures almost all of last year when Cows and Lems said that the crappy games are what sell.

Mature game does not always equal good game. I can't believe i still have to say this.

[QUOTE="aliasfreak"]

[QUOTE="Kekira"]Cows and Lems have been saying these very things about the Wii since its release.Kekira

So? Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

I brought it up because most sheep will never admit this, really it's always been like this for Nintendo and it's only an issue to people who aren't that into Nintendo's first-party. But I say it because before when cows and lems brought it up, sheep would retaliate saying that Nintendo had plenty of good thrid-party games when it was still considerably weaker in tat department than the competition. For some, it's not an issue, for others it is.

always. not in the nes or snes days. 3rd party are just scared to think outside the box. they still see nintendo as the GC but now with a larger audience. and that's why they'll stay much lower in sales compared to nintendo. they are creating their own limitations.

[QUOTE="aliasfreak"]

[QUOTE="Kekira"]Cows and Lems have been saying these very things about the Wii since its release.Kekira

So? Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

I brought it up because most sheep will never admit this, really it's always been like this for Nintendo and it's only an issue to people who aren't that into Nintendo's first-party. But I say it because before when cows and lems brought it up, sheep would retaliate saying that Nintendo had plenty of good thrid-party games when it was still considerably weaker in tat department than the competition. For some, it's not an issue, for others it is.

Like Matt said in that article its a catch 22, the only fast way to break that cycle is to release POPULAR (hint reason why Resident Evil and Guitar Hero are such a success) hardcore and mature titles on the Wii, all of the mature titles on the Wii are extremely obscure. No More Heroes has the potancial to be an extremely popular mature third party game for Wii, American culture will eat it up.

Games will come. Third parties just have to realize that unlike the 360 or PS3, which has a fairly homogenous audience, the Wii's audience is very diverse, and no one style of game will appeal to everyone. Just look at most of the 360's or PS3's high profile games, and you'll see that most of them are either M-rated action games (if they're new IPs) or, if they are T-rated, then they are part of huge and well established franchises.

With the Wii, developers have to realize that the Wii's audience is more diverse. The Wii has proven that it can support a diverse library, but the problem is that developers aren't diverse. They've pigeon-holed themselves into thinking that good games can only be of a specific style or theme. That kind of thinking doesn't fly with a mainstream audience.

[QUOTE="aliasfreak"]

[QUOTE="Kekira"]Cows and Lems have been saying these very things about the Wii since its release.Kekira

So? Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.

I brought it up because most sheep will never admit this, really it's always been like this for Nintendo and it's only an issue to people who aren't that into Nintendo's first-party. But I say it because before when cows and lems brought it up, sheep would retaliate saying that Nintendo had plenty of good thrid-party games when it was still considerably weaker in tat department than the competition. For some, it's not an issue, for others it is.

Okay, I see. I misunderstood, I thought you were simply putting it down to fanboys talking trash. Sorry about that. Personally, Nintendo's third-party games do really interest me, but I'm the person who needs more than just those games to buy a console. I agree though, for others (the majority it seems), it is not an issue.

[QUOTE="wiretoss"]

e_e oh gosh. More blinds.

Most developers weren't developing for the Wii in it's first year because they were afraid that it might turn around and bite them in the ***. Do any of you honestly think what the Wii has had in third party support during it's first year is going to be ALL it is going to get? HAHA Don't make me laugh.

Most developers, if you think logically, would wait about a year to see how the Wii really does in terms of sales before they decide on any high profile games to start developing.

Developers can't just dish out games over night. Which leads me to believe that sometime in late '08 but more likely '09 there will be a massive tidal wave of 'good' third party games coming to the Wii.

:/

Sonick54

bold prediction you got there

tell me, why would third parties start developing for the wii when their own games can't even get passed nintendo's? why not develop for the 360 and ps3? where their games actually, you know, sell? :|

Um. Do you not notice HOW MUCH the Wii is selling right now?
A smart developer would have waited a year before developing anything seriously for the new Nintendo console.
you have to admit, recent games from third party developers are NOT serious, high profile, ambitious games.

[QUOTE="Kekira"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

Yours_is_green

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

I have heard sheep arguing that the Wii has plenty of mature games, they'd been making posts with pictures almost all of last year when Cows and Lems said that the crappy games are what sell.

Mature game does not always equal good game. I can't believe i still have to say this.

Well that sounds like GameSpots duty to me. Why on earth don't these people know what games are good or not?
GameSpot, You are a review site, push it up their buttocks!
KungfuKitten

Because all of the 100+ Million gamers out there go on Gamespot.

Everybody who plays video games posts here.

Games will come. Third parties just have to realize that unlike the 360 or PS3, which has a fairly homogenous audience, the Wii's audience is very diverse, and no one ****of game will appeal to everyone. Just look at most of the 360's or PS3's high profile games, and you'll see that most of them are either M-rated action games (if they're new IPs) or, if they are T-rated, then they are part of huge and well established franchises.

With the Wii, developers have to realize that the Wii's audience is more diverse. The Wii has proven that it can support a diverse library, but the problem is that developers aren't diverse. They've pigeon-holed themselves into thinking that good games can only be of a specific ****or theme. That kind of thinking doesn't fly with a mainstream audience.

mjarantilla

True. Take the Nintendo DS for example, the thing moves third party software more then any other handheld before it. Even when you adjust the size ratios with the GBA, GB, and PSP the DS still moves at least twice as much third party software.In Japan third party sales on it surpass those of the PS2 in 2004. Yet the system has far fewer third party million sellers then the PS2 did in this point in time and even the GBA had more third party million sellers. How is this possible?

When developers say that everything sells on the DS, they do mean EVERYTHING SELLS ON THE DS. In the West niche games like Rune Factory that would've normally sold 50,000 copies have broken 200,000. Trauma Center Second Opinion was the best selling Atlus game in years. Etrian Odyessy also gained many sales.

What the DS offers isn't the quality of sales, but the quanity. Telling a developer that no matter what game they make that they will profit with it is definately saying something.

But as said before to unlocking million sellers pretty much every publisher but EA as of recent is having a hard time with that.

I'm not saying the Wii is like this, I'm just saying it is a possibliity.

Games will come. Third parties just have to realize that unlike the 360 or PS3, which has a fairly homogenous audience, the Wii's audience is very diverse, and no one style of game will appeal to everyone. Just look at most of the 360's or PS3's high profile games, and you'll see that most of them are either M-rated action games (if they're new IPs) or, if they are T-rated, then they are part of huge and well established franchises.

With the Wii, developers have to realize that the Wii's audience is more diverse. The Wii has proven that it can support a diverse library, but the problem is that developers aren't diverse. They've pigeon-holed themselves into thinking that good games can only be of a specific style or theme. That kind of thinking doesn't fly with a mainstream audience.

mjarantilla

That true, and we have seen some diverse from Capcom with RE4, RE:UC, and Zack & Wiki. Despite Zack & Wiki's appeal it still didn't sell enough units compared to both RE games. However, Carnival games from Take 2 appealed to a lot of people while Manhunt 2 didn't sell that much.

Games will come. Third parties just have to realize that unlike the 360 or PS3, which has a fairly homogenous audience, the Wii's audience is very diverse, and no one style of game will appeal to everyone. Just look at most of the 360's or PS3's high profile games, and you'll see that most of them are either M-rated action games (if they're new IPs) or, if they are T-rated, then they are part of huge and well established franchises.

With the Wii, developers have to realize that the Wii's audience is more diverse. The Wii has proven that it can support a diverse library, but the problem is that developers aren't diverse. They've pigeon-holed themselves into thinking that good games can only be of a specific style or theme. That kind of thinking doesn't fly with a mainstream audience.

mjarantilla

well put and the same point i was driving at as well. to me they are still in the copy and dump phase. they see the success of the wii and are copying what they see as successful games rather than being creative. That or they or just dumping stuff they already had onto the wii just because it's cheap and might sell a few copies. these methods are terrible and they will either be forced to mature from bad sales or be content to stay in the shadows of nintendo this gen.

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]
Well that sounds like GameSpots duty to me. Why on earth don't these people know what games are good or not?
GameSpot, You are a review site, push it up their buttocks!
Gunraidan

Because all of the 100+ Million gamers out there go on Gamespot.

Everybody who plays video games posts here.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Games will come. Third parties just have to realize that unlike the 360 or PS3, which has a fairly homogenous audience, the Wii's audience is very diverse, and no one style of game will appeal to everyone. Just look at most of the 360's or PS3's high profile games, and you'll see that most of them are either M-rated action games (if they're new IPs) or, if they are T-rated, then they are part of huge and well established franchises.

With the Wii, developers have to realize that the Wii's audience is more diverse. The Wii has proven that it can support a diverse library, but the problem is that developers aren't diverse. They've pigeon-holed themselves into thinking that good games can only be of a specific style or theme. That kind of thinking doesn't fly with a mainstream audience.

FireEmblem_Man

That true, and we have seen some diverse from Capcom with RE4, RE:UC, and Zack & Wiki. Despite Zack & Wiki's appeal it still didn't sell enough units compared to both RE games. However, Carnival games from Take 2 appealed to a lot of people while Manhunt 2 didn't sell that much.

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=manhunt+&console=&publisher=&genre=&keyword=&order=Last+Updated

Manhunt 2 sold to a much higher PERCENTAGE of Wii owners than PS2 owners, this proves my point of the Wii getting too many obscure titles and not enough big name ones.

[QUOTE="Yours_is_green"][QUOTE="Kekira"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="JayPee89"]

This guy is the biggest sheep on the internet, so if he says it's a problem, it's a problem. How do you guys feel about his take on the situation?

Link

JayPee89

I don't think I have heard sheep ever say Nintendo doesn't have a problem with third parties not trying at the moment? Nintendo could bring the seal back .. but that might limit the games they get from third parties even if most at the moment are crap.

I have heard sheep arguing that the Wii has plenty of mature games, they'd been making posts with pictures almost all of last year when Cows and Lems said that the crappy games are what sell.

Mature game does not always equal good game. I can't believe i still have to say this.

....?

That true, and we have seen some diverse from Capcom with RE4, RE:UC, and Zack & Wiki. Despite Zack & Wiki's appeal it still didn't sell enough units compared to both RE games. However, Carnival games from Take 2 appealed to a lot of people while Manhunt 2 didn't sell that much.

FireEmblem_Man

Manhunt 2 sold like crap on every console. It sold just as bad on PS2 and PSP.....because it sucked.

They don't, so get their attention.
This problem has come up 20 times and nobody ever mentions some possible solution. Meanwhile its effects are increasing exponentially with the wii's succes. That's why i'm just flinging words here. Something has to be done about it.

KungfuKitten

You're right. Right now I'm going to print of out flyers saying buy No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki because they got high scores by reviewers and super glue them to everyone's windshield on their car.

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=manhunt+&console=&publisher=&genre=&keyword=&order=Last+Updated

Manhunt 2 sold to a much higher PERCENTAGE of Wii owners than PS2 owners, this proves my point of the Wii getting too many obscure titles and not enough big name ones.

umcommon

This right here is why VGchartz is crap. They claimed the Wii version sold 150,000 copies when it sold 18,000 copies according to the NPD. The launch sales alone more then double that.

[QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

That true, and we have seen some diverse from Capcom with RE4, RE:UC, and Zack & Wiki. Despite Zack & Wiki's appeal it still didn't sell enough units compared to both RE games. However, Carnival games from Take 2 appealed to a lot of people while Manhunt 2 didn't sell that much.

Gunraidan

Manhunt 2 sold like crap on every console. It sold just as bad on PS2 and PSP.....because it sucked.

But then again, Carnival Games still sold more than MH2.

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"][QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

That true, and we have seen some diverse from Capcom with RE4, RE:UC, and Zack & Wiki. Despite Zack & Wiki's appeal it still didn't sell enough units compared to both RE games. However, Carnival games from Take 2 appealed to a lot of people while Manhunt 2 didn't sell that much.

FireEmblem_Man

Manhunt 2 sold like crap on every console. It sold just as bad on PS2 and PSP.....because it sucked.

But then again, Carnival Games still sold more than MH2.

I saw one comercial after anouther when carnival game first came out......saw none for manhunt 2, didn't even know it was out till a few days after release.

But then again, Carnival Games still sold more than MH2.

FireEmblem_Man

And?

I haven't buy a wii for this reason.. its full of crappy games,the only good games are from nintendo the rest is just crap, i can't believe that nintendo allows games like ghost squad,or old ports from 10 years ago.BovinesOnPaska

I haven't buy a wii for this reason.. its full of crappy games,the only good games are from nintendo the rest is just crap, i can't believe that nintendo allows games like ghost squad,or old ports from 10 years ago.BovinesOnPaska

This makes no sense. Nobody forces you to buy the crappy games, ignore them and buy what you want to play and will hav e fun with.

Same old story with Nintendo. I own a PS3 and a Wii, why would I want to get Uncharted Wii, MGs4 Wii... no freaking reason. Playing the same content with 6 year old technology, crappy graphics, crappy sound, crappy resolution. Do you actually think Wiimote was about to capture hardcore gamers?

Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Fooling around with Miis and Virtual Console is what Wii is good for, and I actually think it worth buying but you wont get apples out in the desert.. let it be.